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Yes, but if the rebel midwayers and Lucifer and Satan were intered at the end of Michael’s bestowal, why do you think Caligastia and Daligastia weren’t?
I often wonder about this and what’s going to happen.
54:2.3 Lucifer’s folly was the attempt to do the nondoable, to short-circuit time in an experiential universe
For himself, I have wondered what exactly was his purpose and maybe the above quote is part of it- combine the quote with what Bonita pointed out about Lanonandeks that they were created for a specific purpose: to serve – meaning they are non-experiential beings, unable to progress beyond what they are created for by experience. Maybe part of Lucifer’s folly was attempting to become experiential – the non-doable in his case?
and failure helped seed his rebellion?
Yes, but if the rebel midwayers and Lucifer and Satan were intered at the end of Michael’s bestowal, why do you think Caligastia and Daligastia weren’t?
Lucifer was the System Sovereign, so he had the greater crime it seems to me. He seduced Cali and Dali with his sopistries. Remember how brilliant he was?
53:0.1 [Lucifer] is numbered as one of three System Sovereigns in Nebadon who have succumbed to the urge of self and surrendered to the sophistry of spurious personal liberty — rejection of universe allegiance and disregard of fraternal obligations, blindness to cosmic relationships.
But think of it! Think of how fortunate Urantia is. Michael’s seventh bestowal took place here! Jesus did offer mercy to the rebels. As far as I know, Cali and Dali didn’t accept his proffer. They are shorn of power and they are powerless to enter anyone’s mind, unless the person chooses – of his/her own free will – to cooperate with their machinations and sophistries.
3:5.13 […] Man could never lay saving hold on righteousness if there were no potential evil to exalt and differentiate the good by contrast.
Apparently Cali and Dali can’t leave the planet. Not sure. But who of our unseen friends will help them if their faces are turned away from these scoundrels.
Anyway, these are my current thoughts, Van. Got to go now. Talk later.
Gene wrote:Maybe part of Lucifer’s folly was attempting to become experiential – the non-doable in his case?I don’t know what Lucifer thought he could do, but I do know that once classified as a primary Lanonandek, there is nothing else he can become, no other function is open to him, at least in this universe age.35:8.7 It is not possible, as it is with evolutionary beings, for these Sons to progress from one group to another. When subjected to the Melchizedek training, when once tested and classified, they serve continuously in the rank assigned. Neither do these Sons engage in reproduction; their number in the universe is stationary.
They are shorn of power and they are powerless to enter anyone’s mind, unless the person chooses – of his/her own free will – to cooperate with their machinations and sophistries.
I don’t think they are shorn of ALL power, but they are certainly powerless against free will (75:2.1). And more interestingly, despite their rebellious minds and horrible actions, they remain SERVILE before the Thought Adjusters! And they’re also SERVILE before the Spirit of Truth, the Spirit of their own father, Michael. So yeah, these rebels still serve despite themselves.
53:8.7 Before the bestowal of Michael these rulers of darkness sought to maintain their authority on Urantia, and they persistently withstood the minor and subordinate celestial personalities. But since the day of Pentecost this traitorous Caligastia and his equally contemptible associate, Daligastia, are servile before the divine majesty of the Paradise Thought Adjusters and the protective Spirit of Truth, the spirit of Michael, which has been poured out upon all flesh.
It looks like these Lanonandek Sons are powerless to play games with superior spiritual beings. Not even their close brothers, the Vorondadeks, who are slightly higher on the spirit scale than they are, succumbed to their sophistries. TUB does inform us that in any conflict, the being of the higher spirit level always wins because he/she is more real than the lower being. Reality is always the winner. The non-doable (non-reality) always the loser.
2.3.5 In any universe contest between actual levels of reality, the personality of the higher level will ultimately triumph over the personality of the lower level. This inevitable outcome of universe controversy is inherent in the fact that divinity of quality equals the degree of reality or actuality of any will creature.
Regarding what God and Michael might know about the thoughts and minds of all creatures in their respective domains, I would surmise that evil, sin, and iniquity might not be represented or reflected due to the fact of its non-reality. But the emotional effects and repercussions of sin and iniquity would be known by both reflectivity and by the gravity circuits (non-material ones). I noticed it was said in text that it was known that not all was well in Lucifer’s mind but not that disloyalty and betrayal were specifically identified. Pure speculation on my part. But it does seem odd to me to claim or suggest that anything God might know is not known by His Paradise Creator Sons related to Super or Local Universe administration. Some quotes I think might contribute to the subject:
9:7.1 [Part I]
The Conjoint Actor is able to co-ordinate all levels of universe actuality in such manner as to make possible the simultaneous recognition of the mental, the material, and the spiritual. This is the phenomenon of universe reflectivity, that unique and inexplicable power to see, hear, sense, and know all things as they transpire throughout a superuniverse, and to focalize, by reflectivity, all this information and knowledge at any desired point. The action of reflectivity is shown in perfection on each of the headquarters worlds of the seven superuniverses. It is also operative throughout all sectors of the superuniverses and within the boundaries of the local universes. Reflectivity finally focalizes on Paradise.17:3.3 [Part I]
The attribute of reflectivity, the phenomenon of the mind levels of the Conjoint Actor, the Supreme Being, and the Master Spirits, is transmissible to all beings concerned in the working of this vast scheme of universal intelligence. And herein is a great mystery: Neither the Master Spirits nor the Paradise Deities, singly or collectively, disclose these powers of co-ordinate universal reflectivity just as they are manifested in these forty-nine liaison personalities of Majeston, and yet they are the creators of all these marvelously endowed beings. Divine heredity does sometimes disclose in the creature certain attributes which are not discernible in the Creator.17:3.8 [Part I]
Everything of import transpiring on a local universe headquarters is inherently reflected to the capital of its superuniverse. And conversely, everything of local universe significance is reflected outward to the local universe capitals from the headquarters of their superuniverse. The reflectivity service from the universes of time up to the superuniverses is apparently automatic or self-operating, but it is not. It is all very personal and intelligent; its precision results from perfection of personality co-operation and therefore can hardly be attributed to the impersonal presence-performances of the Absolutes.32:4.8 (363.6) We can see and understand the mechanism whereby the Sons enjoy intimate and complete knowledge regarding the universes of their jurisdiction; but we cannot fully comprehend the methods whereby God is so fully and personally conversant with the details of the universe of universes, although we at least can recognize the avenue whereby the Universal Father can receive information regarding, and manifest his presence to, the beings of his immense creation. Through the personality circuit the Father is cognizant — has personal knowledge — of all the thoughts and acts of all the beings in all the systems of all the universes of all creation. Though we cannot fully grasp this technique of God’s communion with his children, we can be strengthened in the assurance that the “Lord knows his children,” and that of each one of us “he takes note where we were born.”
I would surmise that evil, sin, and iniquity might not be represented or reflected due to the fact of its non-reality.
If evil is imperfection, are you saying that none of our imperfect thoughts are known by either Michael or the Thought Adjuster? I’m pretty sure that the Thought Adjuster knows everything that goes on inside our heads, since almost all of it is imperfect.
3:1.5 Truly of the human race has it been said, “You are of God” because “he who dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him.” Even in wrongdoing you torment the indwelling gift of God, for the Thought Adjuster must needs go through the consequences of evil thinking with the human mind of its incarceration.
“. . . the Thought Adjuster must needs go through the consequences of evil thinking with the human mind of its incarceration.”
But the thoughts of evil thinking are not the same thing as the acts of acting out the thoughts. The Adjuster goes through the consequences, because consequences imply to me that acting on those thoughts has occurred. The act is our, the consequences God’s.
The rebellion stared in Lucifer’s mind. And mind is the arena of choice.
53:2.5 It is very difficult to point out the exact cause or causes which finally culminated in the Luciferrebellion. We are certain of only one thing, and that is: Whatever these first beginnings were, they had their origin in Lucifer’s mind. There must have been a pride of self that nourished itself to the point of self-deception, so that Lucifer for a time really persuaded himself that his contemplation of rebellion was actually for the good of the system, if not of the universe. By the time his plans had developed to the point of disillusionment, no doubt he had gone too far for his original and mischief-making pride to permit him to stop. At some point in this experience he became insincere, and evil evolved into deliberate and willful sin. That this happened is proved by the subsequent conduct of this brilliant executive. He was long offered opportunity for repentance, but only some of his subordinates ever accepted the proffered mercy. The Faithful of Days of Edentia, on the request of the Constellation Fathers, in person presented the plan of Michael for the saving of these flagrant rebels, but always was the mercy of the Creator Son rejected and rejected with increasing contempt and disdain.Doesn’t cosmic insanity start out in the mind?
67:1.4 . . . iniquity consists in an open and persistent defiance of recognized reality and signifies such a degree of personality disintegration as to border on cosmic insanity.
There’s another avenue of connectivity we haven’t spoken of yet, and that is the Universal Father’s personality circuit. There’s no doubt whatsoever that God himself is completely conscious of and in personal touch with Lucifer’s personality. The fact that Lucifer ignores this contact cannot change it. Lucifer’s personality, just like every personality, is indestructible. God never stops loving a personality. As long as Lucifer has a personality that personality will have unbroken contact with God himself. (56:4.2).
32:4.8 We can see and understand the mechanism whereby the Sons enjoy intimate and complete knowledge regarding the universes of their jurisdiction; but we cannot fully comprehend the methods whereby God is so fully and personally conversant with the details of the universe of universes, although we at least can recognize the avenue whereby the Universal Father can receive information regarding, and manifest his presence to, the beings of his immense creation. Through the personality circuit the Father is cognizant—has personal knowledge—of all the thoughts and acts of all the beings in all the systems of all the universes of all creation. Though we cannot fully grasp this technique of God’s communion with his children, we can be strengthened in the assurance that the “Lord knows his children,” and that of each one of us “he takes note where we were born.”
5:6.10 The personality circuit of the universe of universes is centered in the person of the Universal Father, and the Paradise Father is personally conscious of, and in personal touch with, all personalities of all levels of self-conscious existence. And this personality consciousness of all creation exists independently of the mission of the Thought Adjusters.
3:1.6 The omnipresence of God is in reality a part of his infinite nature; space constitutes no barrier to Deity. God is, in perfection and without limitation, discernibly present only on Paradise and in the central universe. He is not thus observably present in the creations encircling Havona, for God has limited his direct and actual presence in recognition of the sovereignty and the divine prerogatives of the co-ordinate creators and rulers of the universes of time and space. Hence must the concept of the divine presence allow for a wide range of both mode and channel of manifestation embracing the presence circuits of the Eternal Son, the Infinite Spirit, and the Isle of Paradise. Nor is it always possible to distinguish between the presence of the Universal Father and the actions of his eternal co-ordinates and agencies, so perfectly do they fulfill all the infinite requirements of his unchanging purpose. But not so with the personality circuit and the Adjusters; here God acts uniquely, directly, and exclusively.
5:0.2 God has distributed the infinity of his eternal nature throughout the existential realities of his six absolute co-ordinates, but he may, at any time, make direct personal contact with any part or phase or kind of creation through the agency of his prepersonal fragments. And the eternal God has also reserved to himself the prerogative of bestowing personality upon the divine Creators and the living creatures of the universe of universes, while he has further reserved the prerogative of maintaining direct and parental contact with all these personal beings through the personality circuit.
56:4.2 Personality inherently reaches out to unify all constituent realities. The infinite personality of the First Source and Center, the Universal Father, unifies all seven constituent Absolutes of Infinity; and the personality of mortal man, being an exclusive and direct bestowal of the Universal Father, likewise possesses the potential of unifying the constituent factors of the mortal creature. Such unifying creativity of all creature personality is a birthmark of its high and exclusive source and is further evidential of its unbroken contact with this same source through the personality circuit, by means of which the personality of the creature maintains direct and sustaining contact with the Father of all personality on Paradise.
But the thoughts of evil thinking are not the same thing as the acts of acting out the thoughts. The Adjuster goes through the consequences, because consequences imply to me that acting on those thoughts has occurred. The act is our, the consequences God’s.
All of our thoughts begin as imperfection, hence by definition they are evil. The process of perfecting or adjusting those thoughts is what the Adjuster does. Therefore, there’s no doubt the Adjuster is quite familiar with evil thinking. Evil thinking is simply imperfect thinking. The Adjuster works unceasingly to perfect, or spiritualize it. How could he do such a thing without being intimately familiar with it?
I don’t think consequences of evil thinking necessarily mean ONLY actions. We can have wrong impressions which lead to wrong analysis and wrong interpretations of reality. It can all cascade as a consequence of erroneous thinking. Even if none of those consequences get acted out, they are still a tangled mess of meanings that need to be sorted out within the soul.
The saying, “The act is ours; the consequences God’s.” is referring to the bearing of spiritual fruit. It refers to that which contributes to the Supreme.
Doesn’t cosmic insanity start out in the mind?
It may start there, but it’s the personality’s free will that fails to unify its constituent parts – the mind being one of them.
Yes, but if the rebel midwayers and Lucifer and Satan were intered at the end of Michael’s bestowal, why do you think Caligastia and Daligastia weren’t? I often wonder about this and what’s going to happen.
I often wonder about this too. I don’t know the answer, but I have to assume that the source of their mental problem is Lucifer. Perhaps there is hope they will learn without Lucifer’s presence? I think there’s always hope.
. . . In my several posts above, Bonita, I was referring to Lucifer and Lucifer’s mind, his iniquity and his cosmic insanity. I hope readers find these references intesesting.
53:4.4 . . . [Lucifer] contended that “majorities rule,” that “mind is infallible.” The freedom allowed him by the universe rulers apparently sustained many of his nefarious contentions. He defied all his superiors; yet they apparently took no note of his doings. He was given a free hand to prosecute his seductive plan without let or hindrance..66:8.2 It should be noted that both Lucifer and Caligastia had been patiently instructed and lovingly warned respecting their critical tendencies and the subtle development of their pride of self and its associated exaggeration of the feeling of self-importance. But all of these attempts to help had been misconstrued as unwarranted criticism and as unjustified interference with personal liberties. Both Caligastia and Lucifer judged their friendly advisers as being actuated by the very reprehensible motives which were beginning to dominate their own distorted thinking and misguided planning. They judged their unselfish advisers by their own evolving selfishness..54:3.2 Although conscious and wholehearted identification with evil (sin) is the equivalent of nonexistence (annihilation), there must always intervene between the time of such personal identification with sin and the execution of the penalty — the automatic result of such a willful embrace of evil — a period of time of sufficient length to allow for such an adjudication of such an individual’s universe status as will prove entirely satisfactory to all related universe personalities, and which will be so fair and just as to win the approval of the sinner himself..54:4.7 The mercy delays of time are by the mandate of the free will of the Creators. There is good to be derived in the universe from this technique of patience in dealing with sinful rebels. While it is all too true that good cannot come of evil to the one who contemplates and performs evil, it is equally true that all things (including evil, potential and manifest) work together for good to all beings who know God, love to do his will, and are ascending Paradiseward according to his eternal plan and divine purpose..2:3.2 [. . .]In the last analysis, such sin-identified individuals have destroyed themselves by becoming wholly unreal through their embrace of iniquity. The factual disappearance of such a creature is, however, always delayed until the ordained order of justice current in that universe has been fully complied with.
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