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Posts
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Bonita, you argued that even in rebellion, the archrebels remain in service to Michael in his domain. You used a spurious argument that being a celestial son of Michael qualifies as serving in his domain. The revelation I posted contradicts your position.
BB, I’m not arguing. I’m not even debating. I am stating my opinions, ideas and thoughts on the matter, and I have no wish to convince you or anyone else as to their rightness or wrongness. Personally I cannot find anything you’ve written so far that will change my opinions, ideas and thoughts, nor have you provided anything yet from TUB that contradicts them. However, you continue to argue, you continue to attempt to coerce me to change my mind. Why is that? Isn’t it permissible for me to have my opinions? I don’t have to abandon my position just because you don’t like it or don’t agree with it. But that is what it looks like you’re trying to do from my perspective. It looks like you want to dominate me and my ideas with your own, which you seem to think are superior. At least it seems that way to me, which I view as hostile and threatening. So please stop.
No one is telling you to abandon your belief, Bonita and I don’t think my ideas are superior. Also, I don’t think you presented any revelation that contradicts my ideas. We all have opinions and that is EXACTLY what we are sharing on this board. I definitely agree with you on that fact!
Bonita, you argued that even in rebellion, the archrebels remain in service to Michael in his domain. You used a spurious argument that being a celestial son of Michael qualifies as serving in his domain. The revelation I posted contradicts your position.
BB, I’m not arguing. I’m not even debating. I am stating my opinions, ideas and thoughts on the matter, and I have no wish to convince you or anyone else as to their rightness or wrongness. Personally I cannot find anything you’ve written so far that will change my opinions, ideas and thoughts, nor have you provided anything yet from TUB that contradicts them. However, you continue to argue, you continue to attempt to coerce me to change my mind. Why is that? Isn’t it permissible for me to have my opinions? I don’t have to abandon my position just because you don’t like it or don’t agree with it. But that is what it looks like you’re trying to do from my perspective. It looks like you want to dominate me and my ideas with your own, which you seem to think are superior. At least it seems that way to me, which I view as hostile and threatening. So please stop.
BB
No one is telling you to abandon your belief, Bonita and I don’t think my ideas are superior.
Then stop harassing me.
I am harassing in a thread I authored. Bonita, go and complain to the admins, then. This is silly.No one is telling you to abandon your belief, Bonita and I don’t think my ideas are superior.
Then stop harassing me.
BB
This is my position: Lucifer is both servile to, and in the service of, Michael. If he resumes loyalty relations and accepts rehab, he can be given his duties back. But whether or not he is reinstated to his assigned duties, for which he was created, does not alter the fact that as long as he exists he is in service to and of Michael.
BB, I must agree with Bonita’s first statement above where by her using “servile to” indicates the following: “when postpositive, followed by to – submitting or obedient”, then being “in the service of,” would indicate “an act of helpful activity; help; aid”. Being that Michael, would not be able to pursue, in his position, that which Lucifer was able to do, would indicate that Lucifer’s actions were in service to Michael’s wishes, like being under-cover or in this case functioning as intelligence, where Michael waited and observed.
Although, I disagree with her interpretation or implication of Michael using the “personality circuit”, to be able to know what was or is in Lucifer’s mind, where it is generally used to commune with Paradise Sons, yet it would stand to reason that Michael knew what was going on with Lucifer, because he was in service to Michael, not to mention that the System Circuits had been disrupted at the time of the Rebellion, although, as Bradly mentioned that “it was known that not all was well in Lucifer’s mind”, was prior to that period, and passed on as general conjecture, without specifics.
I am harassing in a thread I authored. Bonita, go and complain to the admins, then. This is silly.
So you think harassment is silly? I don’t. But I don’t go crying to administration every time someone hassles me. I’m not like that. I’m a grown up. I deal with my own problems. The issue is between you and me and no one else. If you don’t want me to contribute to your thread then I think there’s a problem. This is an open forum. There are no segregated or invitation-only study groups on this forum, although that would be a nice addition. It might be your thread, but it is not your forum. You can lead discussion on your thread, but you cannot constrain or pressure anyone with your opinion. And if you do, it’s called harassment, which is what you did when you said this:
Brooklyn_born wrote:Do you see, Bonita? “REINSTATEMENT IN SOME FORM OF UNIVERSE SERVICE” Get it, now?Although, I disagree with her interpretation or implication of Michael using the “personality circuit”, to be able to know what was or is in Lucifer’s mind, . . .
, I never said that. The quote in question states that Michael uses the spirit-gravity circuit (spiritual drawing power). The personality circuit is utilized by the Universal Father, not the universe father. Please correct your statement above because it is wrong. Here’s the quote again for your convenience.
20:1.13The Creator Sons seem to possess a spiritual endowment centering in their persons, which they control and which they can bestow, as did your own Creator Son when he poured out his spirit upon all mortal flesh on Urantia. Each Creator Son is endowed with this spiritual drawing power in his own realm; he is personally conscious of every act and emotion of every descending Son of God serving in his domain. Here is a divine reflection, a local universe duplication, of that absolute spiritual drawing power of the Eternal Son which enables him to reach out to make and maintain contact with all his Paradise Sons, no matter where they may be in all the universe of universes.
It might be your thread, but it is not your forum. You can lead discussion on your thread, but you cannot constrain or pressure anyone with your opinion. And if you do, it’s called harassment, which is what you did when you said this:
Brooklyn_born wrote: Do you see, Bonita? “REINSTATEMENT IN SOME FORM OF UNIVERSE SERVICE” Get it, now?
Yes it would seem that by BB’s use of all caps, he was yelling but who else uses all caps to make a point?
Being that the post went like this:
53:9.1 Early in the days of the Lucifer rebellion, salvation was offered all rebels by Michael. To all who would show proof of sincere repentance, he offered, upon his attainment of complete universe sovereignty, forgiveness and reinstatement in some form of universe service. None of the leaders accepted this merciful proffer. But thousands of the angels and the lower orders of celestial beings, including hundreds of the Material Sons and Daughters, accepted the mercy proclaimed by the Panoptians and were given rehabilitation at the time of Jesus’ resurrection nineteen hundred years ago…Do you see, Bonita? “REINSTATEMENT IN SOME FORM OF UNIVERSE SERVICE” Get it, now?It would also indicate that “FORGIVENESS” was also offered, but then all of this was conditional “upon his [Michaels] attainment of complete universe sovereignty”.
How does attempting to make a point become “harassment”? If that were the case I’m sure there are others who would fall under this terminology, and or definition?
The quote in question states that Michael uses the spirit-gravity circuit (spiritual drawing power).
If this is the case, and with the UB quote you posted, siting (spiritual drawing power), does not define this as being “spirit-gravity circuit”. Where the “spirit-gravity circuit” is associated to the “Eternal Son”, the “Second Source and Center on Paradise.”
Even with the following:
(366.4) 33:1.3 Our Creator Son exerts the same spiritual drawing power, spirit gravity, from the headquarters of the local universe that the Eternal Son of Paradise would exert if he were personally present on Salvington, and more; this Universe Son is also the personification of the Universal Father to the universe of Nebadon. Creator Sons are personality centers for the spiritual forces of the Paradise Father-Son. Creator Sons are the final power-personality focalizations of the mighty time-space attributes of God the Sevenfold.
Where in this case it would not necessarily apply to Lucifer? Then if I’m not mistaken it is in reference to “the Spirit of Truth” which would be after the fact?
Then if I’m not mistaken it is in reference to “the Spirit of Truth” which would be after the fact?
But you are mistaken. The spirit-gravity circuit is not the same as the Spirit of Truth. And, since you haven’t corrected your mistake in your previous post, I’ll repeat, the spirit-gravity circuit is also not the same as the personality circuit. If you’re interested in an essay on these matters let me know, otherwise I won’t waste my time.
MidiChlorian wrote: Although, I disagree with her interpretation or implication of Michael using the “personality circuit”, to be able to know what was or is in Lucifer’s mind, . . .
The personality circuit is utilized by the Universal Father, not the universe father. Please correct your statement above because it is wrong. Here’s the quote again for your convenience.
My reference to “personality circuit”, above was in your post number #27821, where in your statement and mixing the term God with the Universal Father, and indicating the reference to Lucifer personality, implied that Michael also could utilize this type of circuit, where it is my understanding that you perceive Michael as God. Nevertheless, the full quote which you referenced, in that previously you used a portion only, states “Creator Sons seem to possess a spiritual endowment”, but does not state a finite possession.
MidiChlorian wrote: Then if I’m not mistaken it is in reference to “the Spirit of Truth” which would be after the fact?
But you are mistaken. The spirit-gravity circuit is not the same as the Spirit of Truth. And, since you haven’t corrected your mistake in your previous post, I’ll repeat, the spirit-gravity circuit is also not the same as the personality circuit. If you’re interested in an essay on these matters let me know, otherwise I won’t waste my time.
My reference to “the Spirit of Truth” above was in reference to the quote (33:1.3) also in question because of the inclusion of “spiritual drawing power, spirit gravity,” where it states (20:1.13) “which they can bestow, as did your own Creator Son when he poured out his spirit upon all mortal flesh on Urantia”, which occurred after the fact of resurrection, and return. Where as I mentioned above, the quote stated, “seem to”, not does, therefore it implies likened too.
I cannot make corrections to your opinions or implications as I read them or understand them. Also your indication where I am wrong and or mistaken, is based on your assumption of what I meant, not what I said, where if what I said was confusing then a question should have been in order, rather then a presentation of error? And, I’m not “interested in an essay on these matters” because my time is worth more to me then to waste your time, and my own. I’ve read portions of your essays that you have presented on this forum. Sorry. Also, as a point of order, this response is not intended as harassment, only a response to your preclusion of error.
Then if I’m not mistaken it is in reference to “the Spirit of Truth” which would be after the fact?
But you are mistaken. The spirit-gravity circuit is not the same as the Spirit of Truth. And, since you haven’t corrected your mistake in your previous post, I’ll repeat, the spirit-gravity circuit is also not the same as the personality circuit. If you’re interested in an essay on these matters let me know, otherwise I won’t waste my time.
It seems obvious enough Midi that you asked a question which was directly answered. You asked if “….I’m not mistaken…?” which was answered…”But you are mistaken.” And so you are. Your reference to 33:1.3 has nothing to do with the Son’s Spirit or Spirit of Truth (same thing) and so is a faulty reference in context to Bonita’s posts and points on the Son’s Drawing Power.
The Spirit of Truth is given material world by material world and is not bestowed generally or universally. Also, as I understand, this Spirit is exclusively for mortal ascenders (and not Lucifer, etc.) who retain the ministry of this gift even beyond the Local and Super Universe levels, once gifted. I wonder if mortals who survive to the Mansion Worlds gain this ministry upon awakening….or not until their world of origin receives this gift?
It is unfortunate you do not wish to improve your knowledge and understanding of the Papers….per Bonita’s generous offer. I would be thrilled to look forward to such a study. Perhaps we should, if we haven’t already, begin a topic on the Son’s Spirit?
Word search for “Spirit of Truth”:
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It seems obvious enough Midi that you asked a question which was directly answered. You asked if “….I’m not mistaken…?” which was answered…”But you are mistaken.” And so you are. Your reference to 33:1.3 has nothing to do with the Son’s Spirit or Spirit of Truth (same thing) and so is a faulty reference in context to Bonita’s posts and points on the Son’s Drawing Power.
I’m sorry Bradly but even though you are entitled to your opinion my post was directed to Bonita, not you, but it is evident that you have taken up the post of her defender, even that she is intelligent enough to defend herself, as am I. One thing that one learns when litigating is to not ask a question that you don’t already have the answer to. Also, in that all the UB quotes referenced have been provided, they, as you might say, speak for themselves. And, being that the unique phrase “spiritual drawing power” is found eight times in the UB and is associate to both entities in question, it would seem that you are the one who needs to do more research as to what the UB actually says. The UB is interlinked through words and phrases, which is part of its grammatical construction, which allows the reader to search the book for corresponding meanings to which there may not be a direct definition. I would suggest you do your own research before making accusations as to right and wrong as to someone else’s opinion, where it would seem that you now know exactly what Bonita had in her mind when she addressed me personally.
Thank you for your intervention, I don’t think it was needed, because you have no idea as to what I know or do not know. Some of the things that I might say is intended to draw out the intellectual prowess of those who may not understand, in order to present questions, rather then respond with emotional affect.
It’s interesting that I have to defend myself. Isn’t defense necessary only when under assault. Am I under assault? Seems so.
Thanks Bradly for understanding my point, and thank you for engaging in non-combative discussion. There’s a lot to unpack in quote 20:1.13, which is the quote I’m talking about. I reproduced it below for everyone’s convenience.
20:1.13The Creator Sons seem to possess a spiritual endowment centering in their persons, which they control and which they can bestow, as did your own Creator Son when he poured out his spirit upon all mortal flesh on Urantia. Each Creator Son is endowed with this spiritual drawing power in his own realm; he is personally conscious of every act and emotion of every descending Son of God serving in his domain. Here is a divine reflection, a local universe duplication, of that absolute spiritual drawing power of the Eternal Son which enables him to reach out to make and maintain contact with all his Paradise Sons, no matter where they may be in all the universe of universes.
It’s a valid question to ask just what the spiritual endowment Creator Sons have which is centered in their persons. There are many quotes which explain that it is a subabsolute focalization of the spirit-gravity circuit. But before discussing that, I think it would be wise to remind everyone that the Spirit of Truth is more than the spiritual endowment of the Creator Son. The Spirit of Truth is really a dual Spirit in substance and a triune Spirit in function. The Spirit of Truth consists of both the spirit of the Universal Father and the spirit of the Creator Son. In function, the Spirit of Truth is always accompanied by the Holy Spirit (to abate the time-space issue). Consider the following quotes:
194:2.3 In a certain sense, this Spirit of Truth is the spirit of both the Universal Father and the Creator Son.
194:2.16 4. The spirit of the Universal Father and the Creator Son–the Spirit of Truth, generally regarded as the spirit of the Universe Son.
34:4.7 The Universe Mother Spirit acts as the universe focus and center of the Spirit of Truth as well as of her own personal influence, the Holy Spirit.
Spirit gravity is a type of pure spirit power. Spirit gravity is not a person or a personification. However, the Spirit of Truth IS a person, a personifcation of Michael, an actual spirit presence of his personality. A subabsolute focalization of spirit gravity is centered in the person of Michael; it is a force or power which draws spirit values and spiritualized persons to him. How does Michael use this power to know the emotions and actions of all his descending Sons? That is a mystery, I think. But I can say that it is seems doubtful that any of those Sons interact directly with the Spirit of Truth. They have no souls, which is where the Spirit of Truth sojourns. The Spirit of Truth is a teacher for faith-sons and ascending sons. I’m still looking for a reference indicating that the Spirit of Truth ministers to descending Sons . . . can’t seem to find one.
Anyway, there’s lots to be said about this, lots to study. I’m sure there’s a ton of things to learn, if one has mind to. So, if you want to start a new thread Bradly, I’m certainly open to the idea.
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