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. . . how can one swear alleg1ance to an entity located within oneself?
What the heck are you talking about???
Only mortal born ascenders have TA’s – not descending Sons.
Yes, that is correct. And it is also a fact that Michael has direct contact with every one of his descending Sons. He knows, at all times and in all places, everything thing they think, feel, say and do.
20:1.13 The Creator Sons seem to possess a spiritual endowment centering in their persons, which they control and which they can bestow, as did your own Creator Son when he poured out his spirit upon all mortal flesh on Urantia. Each Creator Son is endowed with this spiritual drawing power in his own realm; he is personally conscious of every act and emotion of every descending Son of God serving in his domain. Here is a divine reflection, a local universe duplication, of that absolute spiritual drawing power of the Eternal Son which enables him to reach out to make and maintain contact with all his Paradise Sons, no matter where they may be in all the universe of universes.
Only mortal born ascenders have TA’s – not descending Sons.
Yes, that is correct. And it is also a fact that Michael has direct contact with every one of his descending Sons. He knows, at all times and in all places, everything thing they think, feel, say and do.
20:1.13 The Creator Sons seem to possess a spiritual endowment centering in their persons, which they control and which they can bestow, as did your own Creator Son when he poured out his spirit upon all mortal flesh on Urantia. Each Creator Son is endowed with this spiritual drawing power in his own realm; he is personally conscious of every act and emotion of every descending Son of God serving in his domain. Here is a divine reflection, a local universe duplication, of that absolute spiritual drawing power of the Eternal Son which enables him to reach out to make and maintain contact with all his Paradise Sons, no matter where they may be in all the universe of universes.
There’s that all seeing, all knowing reflectivity again – nothing within ANY mind may be or can be hidden….all is revealed by reflectivity. Lucifer’s crimes and treason are not a function of third party testimony or hearsay…they are absolutely known and reflected to the Divine Creators…and others. The rebels cannot hide their minds, decisions, intentions, etc.
The rebels cannot hide their minds, decisions, intentions, etc.
And neither can we. God sees all, hears all, knows all. Personally, I love it! I’m glad someone knows me that well and still likes me.
What the heck are you talking about???
It was in reference to Nigel’s implication the when Lucifer, indicated the “unseen Father” that Nigel implied that the “unseen Father” was the Thought Adjuster as being unseen. My reference, that you sited, was that if Lucifer was actually referring to the Thought Adjuster as being the “unseen Father” that one could or would not be compelled to swear allegiance to something that dwelled within, therefore my indication that he was not referring to the Thought Adjuster.
Regardless of who or what might be “unseen” to Lucifer…he had been to Edentia and Salvington countless times!!! Would not beholding Super Universe and Paradise Beings AND his own Creator Son not be enough ‘seen’ to believe and know? A ludicrous excuse IMO for betrayal, treachery, and treason against his own Divine Creator(s). Unreasonable, illogical, and a Luciferian defense for the leaders, all of whom knew the same and been to the same spheres in Nebadon. Again…the text says clearly that Lucifer denied the First Source and Center – God Almighty…not the TA’s – an irrelevant distraction.
Nigel is correct. Lucifer charged that the Universal Father does not exist anywhere or anytime. Since Adjusters ARE the Universal Father, Lucifer’s charge applies to them. Being seen or unseen has nothing to do with it except for one minor issue. Descending Sons are supposed to SEE the unseen Universal Father in their universe father- the Creator Son. Lucifer refused to SEE that reality. They tell us some LOSE the ability to SEE the Universal Father, but Lucifer went beyond that . . . he REFUSED to even try.
p361:1 32:3.6 The farther down the scale of life we go, the more difficult it becomes to locate, with the eye of faith, the invisible Father. The lower creatures—and sometimes even the higher personalities—find it difficult always to envisage the Universal Father in his Creator Sons. And so, pending the time of their spiritual exaltation, when perfection of development will enable them to see God in person, they grow weary in progression, entertain spiritual doubts, stumble into confusion, and thus isolate themselves from the progressive spiritual aims of their time and universe. In this way they lose the ability to see the Father when beholding the Creator Son. The surest safeguard for the creature throughout the long struggle to attain the Father, during this time when inherent conditions make such attainment impossible, is tenaciously to hold on to the truth-fact of the Father’s presence in his Sons. Literally and figuratively, spiritually and personally, the Father and the Sons are one. It is a fact: He who has seen a Creator Son has seen the Father.
Another way to SEE is to feel the presence of the Universal Father in the soul. Lucifer does not have a soul. But Lucifer does have a mind, a mind blessed with the Spirits of both his mother and father. That should be enough to feel the Spirit within and SEE. He just refused to do it. His loss.
Lucifer charged that the Universal Father does not exist anywhere or anytime.
Where does it say this? Your UB reference, implies that the a creator Son is the same as the Universal Father as and to “envisage” — “to contemplate; visualize” a creator Son, as being the Universal Father? If this would be true, then a creator Son could not have been a created being and not an individual in association with the Father? In essence being the trinity instead of a triunity.
So, “He who has seen a Creator Son has seen the Father.” Where why not just say so, that the Creator Son can be seen, and then is the Creator Son an Adjuster? Also, to indicate that the Creator Son can not be seen, or unseen, that in itself would be false, in that if one believes that Jesus was the Creator Son, where he could be seen, the statement of “unseen” is false and incorrect.
But Lucifers charge that Father does not exist and his minds refusal to see is after the fact that at one time in his past he did feel or see the presence of Father in the Son.
his refusals were designed to distort and lure weak and susceptible minds for his own selfish reasons and it’s difficult for me to imagine what his reasons were. Maybe the lust for power and control? Any possible motive I can imagine are all motives that power hungry human beings would conjure up – but a Lanonadek Son? It just don’t make sense to me, his motive will remain a mystery to me. What could be the value that he was after?
The prophets of old humanized God. They also had many exaggerations about the devil and hell. I don’t believe the true motive and full impact of the rebellion can be completely understood even though the importance of the rebellion and the subtle deceptions associated with it are revealed to us and really should be studied in depth. There is much more to it.
Is anyone besides me having a problem with this statement by ? “. . . how can one swear alleg1ance to an entity located within oneself?”
Can anyone translate that for me?
Lucifer charged that the Universal Father does not exist anywhere or anytime.
Where does it say this? Your UB reference, implies that the a creator Son is the same as the Universal Father as and to “envisage” — “to contemplate; visualize” a creator Son, as being the Universal Father? If this would be true, then a creator Son could not have been a created being and not an individual in association with the Father? In essence being the trinity instead of a triunity. So, “He who has seen a Creator Son has seen the Father.” Where why not just say so, that the Creator Son can be seen, and then is the Creator Son an Adjuster? Also, to indicate that the Creator Son can not be seen, or unseen, that in itself would be false, in that if one believes that Jesus was the Creator Son, where he could be seen, the statement of “unseen” is false and incorrect.
Third time I’ve posted on this thread…but I can post as often as needed…
53:3.1 (603.2) Whatever the early origins of trouble in the hearts of Lucifer and Satan, the final outbreak took form as the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. The cause of the rebels was stated under three heads:
53:3.2 (603.3) 1. The reality of the Universal Father. Lucifer charged that the Universal Father did not really exist, that physical gravity and space-energy were inherent in the universe, and that the Father was a myth invented by the Paradise Sons to enable them to maintain the rule of the universes in the Father’s name. He denied that personality was a gift of the Universal Father. He even intimated that the finaliters were in collusion with the Paradise Sons to foist fraud upon all creation since they never brought back a very clear-cut idea of the Father’s actual personality as it is discernible on Paradise. He traded on reverence as ignorance. The charge was sweeping, terrible, and blasphemous. It was this veiled attack upon the finaliters that no doubt influenced the ascendant citizens then on Jerusem to stand firm and remain steadfast in resistance to all the rebel’s proposals.
53:3.3 (603.4) 2. The universe government of the Creator Son — Michael. Lucifer contended that the local systems should be autonomous. He protested against the right of Michael, the Creator Son, to assume sovereignty of Nebadon in the name of a hypothetical Paradise Father and require all personalities to acknowledge allegiance to this unseen Father. He asserted that the whole plan of worship was a clever scheme to aggrandize the Paradise Sons. He was willing to acknowledge Michael as his Creator-father but not as his God and rightful ruler.Is anyone besides me having a problem with this statement by ? “. . . how can one swear alleg1ance to an entity located within oneself?”
Can anyone translate that for me?
Isn’t that what even us lowly mortal tadpoles do? Believing without seeing? I think it’s called faith. As in Faith Sons!!!
Bradly aka fanofVan
But Lucifers charge that Father does not exist and his minds refusal to see is after the fact that at one time in his past he did feel or see the presence of Father in the Son.
Probably. It seems likely that he at least accepted the reality of the Universal Father in the Creator Son at one time, until he didn’t. In 53:2.3 they tell us that Lucifer’s relations with Michael had been intimate and cordial, but it doesn’t say Lucifer respected Michael. They do tell us in 53:2.5 that Lucifer slowly corrupted his mind and became insincere. As you say, this probably means that at one time he was sincere. One thing is for sure, evil can be insidious. Even the shadow of a hair’s turning toward insincerity is a perversion of truth (48:6.33). Lucifer went far beyond a shadow, that’s for sure. He went all the way to darkness.
And that’s another beautiful thing about the universe. The Universal Father is the Source of Light. When we live in light we are progressing in light and life. Turning away from God’s spiritual luminosity is wholly unnatural, in my opinion. It’s against life itself.
Is anyone besides me having a problem with this statement by ? “. . . how can one swear alleg1ance to an entity located within oneself?”
Can anyone translate that for me?
cant translate.
however, allegiance is to God the father, the entity I assume is the Adjuster? The guide that leads you to him.
Isn’t that what even us lowly mortal tadpoles do? Believing without seeing? I think it’s called faith. As in Faith Sons!!!
Yup. We are faith-sons, swearing allegiance by faith alone. How great is that! I guess faith, in some measure, is required even for Lanonandek Sons. But they surely don’t need faith to know who their father and mother are! Lucifer could have at least honored his immediate family with loyalty or allegiance. What a jerk!
3:1.4 The creature not only exists in God, but God also lives in the creature. “We know we dwell in him because he lives in us; he has given us his spirit. This gift from the Paradise Father is man’s inseparable companion.” “He is the ever-present and all-pervading God.” “The spirit of the everlasting Father is concealed in the mind of every mortal child.” “Man goes forth searching for a friend while that very friend lives within his own heart.” “The true God is not afar off; he is a part of us; his spirit speaks from within us.” “The Father lives in the child. God is always with us. He is the guiding spirit of eternal destiny.”
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