Urantia Book eugenics

[Gene]

Dosnt anyone think there are very simple things any individual can do? Like if you know you or your spouse have any history of degenerative illness, just don’t have children. That has morality, ethics and determination all built into such a decision-even science without the need for a science education.

i don’t know if there is any value in trying to convince anyone about the validity of any controversial topic presented in TUB.

Upon reflection, I did not need convincing from anyone about the validity of the book, all controversies were resolved one way or another within myself – probably with some help of other readers. (Sincere readers)

 

[Gene]

Bonita wrote:

In my experience, the biggest hurdle is getting people to accept the notion that there really is such a thing as inferior in the first place. In a world where anything considered superior is evil, it’s going to be a very long time before any serious headway is made on this issue. This world is turned upside down/inside out. Our culture nurtures inferior and shames superior. Elimination of inferior racial strains will never occur in our current culture, so you can assure potential readers that they will not see such a thing in their lifetimes. This is something meant to slowly evolve over thousands of years.

superior inferior is mentioned in TUB many times.

[Bradly]

Thanks for the link Julian!  Important to note the normal, potential and real evolutionary effects that science delivers to the epochal transformation story!

As to the story of the neighboring planet; we should remember that cannibalism and slavery are given as evolutionary steps of social improvements – the less inferior replacing the more inferior.  So…just because one world’s story about isolation and evolution is NO recommendation for our own world…it is but an example of how one world approaches the issue.

Not all facts and stories of history are intended as recommendations!  They are opportunities for learning the evolutionary process from prior errors.

[Richard E Warren]

Bonita wrote:

In my experience, the biggest hurdle is getting people to accept the notion that there really is such a thing as inferior in the first place. In a world where anything considered superior is evil, it’s going to be a very long time before any serious headway is made on this issue. This world is turned upside down/inside out. Our culture nurtures inferior and shames superior. Elimination of inferior racial strains will never occur in our current culture, so you can assure potential readers that they will not see such a thing in their lifetimes. This is something meant to slowly evolve over thousands of years.

Hmm…Not so sure about that timeline Bonita. Or that it’s a good idea to tell questioners the issue is way off in a remote future, what with galloping technology and rapidly swelling scientific evidence/data.

Soon, say 20-50 years, almost every parent on the planet will have access to genetic testing. No parent wants a defective, diseased baby, and soon they will have a choice about creating one. They will have a ready remedy too, if they have disease producing genes, with the CRISPR break thru, and who knows what other options. Then the inferior/superior debates will be irrelevant with this unfolding technological revolution. It will be about healthy genes, and which ones to conserve (normal vs genius, etc).

Also, we might do well to avoid the word eugenics whenever possible, given its horrendous stigma, and use the term genetic conservation or something similar, a concept that animal breeders recognize and respect. Even humans aren’t allowed to inbreed. The authors reveal a great deal about the advisability of conserving and promoting our better genetic heritage, and they used the word eugenics only once. 

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Richard E Warren

[Bonita]

Rick Warren wrote:

Then the inferior/superior debates will be irrelevant with this unfolding technological revolution.It will be about healthy genes, and which ones to conserve (normal vs genius, etc).

Healthy/unhealthy, normal/genius, these are inferior/superior issues Rick.  We have not yet evolved a level of wisdom capable of making those determinations with anything close to accuracy.  With all likelihood, efforts at genetic engineering in the next 20-50 years will result in another ethical crisis, just as it did in the past.  It will evolve, like everything else.

 

[Van Amadon]

It always confounds me, even from day one, how much derision exists out there towards the Urantia Book. Not to mention those who have such disregard for God in general. The antagonism is great sometimes, it leaves me flabbergasted, but not so much that I can’t withstand it.

You know, people who just don’t respond to it is one thing, but then there are those who have some familiarity with the book and have decided to take up some weird inverse version of service to their fellow man and go to war with you about it.

Over the last several years I’ve bumped into this every time I venture away from home base and unfortunately, it’s the eugenics/superior/inferior thing that always gets out front.

I think ignoring being confronted with the issue from unsavory types is the only way to handle it. I’m beginning to realize the old adage that no news is bad news, is going to apply here. Even when these « savior » types attack the book, they’re bringing attention to it and I’ll just keep the faith that even under these kinds of negative circumstances, positive results are being achieved.

I appreciate everyone’s feedback about this. I know we’re still in a very early stage with the revelation. But I can’t help but be expectant and hopeful that a point of critical mass is just ahead.

Enno

 

[Gene]

Van,

I share your frustrations and have similar experiences. But I have found that it is a really good exercise for me to try to engage religious discussions by getting into the deeper meanings that don’t exist anywhere else than TUB as opposed to trying to change someone’s mind about a particular belief.

i have actually had limited success with my son who is probably the most fundamental of fundamentalist Christians.

But as for eugenics, if we tend to shy away from it on this forum where we think we are a bit more spiritually enlightened then there is little hope out there and I’ll go with Bonitas time line or longer.

i still gravitate to the parable. I think it is the one about the sower where Jesus gave apostles instructions about the skill. As I mentioned before: jesus warned about the allegory as the distraction from the truth the parable is trying to convey. I keep that on in my mind all the time. Although parable is far beyond my skill level, avoiding allegories in religious discussion is really helpful.

you can see what happened here when WW2 Germany was mentioned.

[Richard E Warren]

Coincidental to this thread, a stunning report on the CRISPR technology appeared on this evening’s national newscast.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/gene-editing-crispr-fixes-dangerous-mutation-in-human-embryos/

http://www.cbsnews.com/search/?q=crispr

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Richard E Warren

[Richard E Warren]

From the report:

WASHINGTON — For the first time, researchers in the U.S. have safely repaired a disease-causing gene in human embryos, targeting a heart defect best known for killing young athletes — a big step toward one day preventing a list of inherited diseases. The breakthrough is also prompting debate about the ethics of altering DNA for generations to come.

Scientists from Oregon Health and & Science University used the gene-editing tool CRISPR to target the mutation that causes hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, a common genetic heart disease that can cause sudden cardiac death and heart failure.

The research, published in the journal Nature, demonstrates a new method of fixing a disease-causing mutation and preventing it from being passed down to future generations.

Richard E Warren

[Richard E Warren]

PBS also featured the break through:

https://youtu.be/Waw7ywr9mMc

 

« So long space race. Hello CRISPR race. As rumored last week and published formally Wednesday, geneticists in Oregon have become the first to genetically edit human embryos in the U.S. with the ever-popular CRISPR/Cas9 technique. Their work corrected a lethal heritable mutation in an embryo, a promising advance for parents who want conceive without passing a disease to their child. Similar research was conducted in China two years ago. »

 

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Richard E Warren

[Van Amadon]

Rick Warren wrote

So long space race. Hello CRISPR race.

This is great news! What’s interesting to me is that the article reports how simple these new gene editing techniques are. It almost seems as though it’s all part of the plan for us to discover these techniques so naturally.

 

Gene wrote:

I share your frustrations and have similar experiences. But I have found that it is a really good exercise for me to try to engage religious discussions by getting into the deeper meanings that don’t exist anywhere else than TUB as opposed to trying to change someone’s mind about a particular belief. i have actually had limited success with my son who is probably the most fundamental of fundamentalist Christians.

You know Gene, I think you’re right about discussing the deeper meanings of TUB without referencing the book. It does appear that many a good Christian and a better atheist is best engaged at the back door causally rather than on the front porch wearing a tie.

 

Gene wrote:

i still gravitate to the parable. I think it is the one about the sower where Jesus gave apostles instructions about the skill. As I mentioned before: jesus warned about the allegory as the distraction from the truth the parable is trying to convey.

Yeah, going allegorical can confuse. But I remember the instruction about the efficacy of using nature parables to convey meanings. It’s a tight balance between the two so it’s probably best to stay towards the middle.

 

[Gene]

111:4.4 [Part III]
The inner and the outer worlds have a different set of values. Any civilization is in jeopardy when three quarters of its youth enter materialistic professions and devote themselves to the pursuit of the sensory activities of the outer world. Civilization is in danger when youth neglect to interest themselves in ethics, sociology, eugenics, philosophy, the fine arts, religion, and cosmology.

I believe that the science that produced this CRISPR technique is a wonderful display of intelligence and genuine compassion for the human race.

the context that TUB presents its very brief idea about our responsibility in regard to eugenics has definite context with ethics and sociology on one side and philosophy, art, religion and cosmology on the other. Eugenics fits into all that high level stuff.

so where are the checks and balances? I suppose when genetic disorders are a thing of the past we may all have 100 year plus lifespans? We can think about population control later?

[Van Amadon]

Gene wrote:

I suppose when genetic disorders are a thing of the past we may all have 100 year plus lifespans? We can think about population control later?

Or perhaps the population will begin to control itself with the much needed added benefit of genetically healthy people, especially the older folks made wiser by longer lives, healthier bodies and outlook, spreading a superior influence with the coming age of Jesus’s gospel, broadcast all over this world.

[Bonita]

Will genetic editing rid us of degenerate and antisocial stocks?  Will the genetic engineering of the next 20-50 years be able to discriminate socially defective and morally degenerate genomes from those which are not?  These are the folks TUB is talking about, and this problem has little to do with science.  It has to do with ethics.  The eugenics TUB is referring to is an ethical matter, not a gene splicing matter.

70:9.14 What may be regarded as right in one age may not be so regarded in another. The survival of large numbers of defectives and degenerates is not because they have any natural right thus to encumber twentieth-century civilization, but simply because the society of the age, the mores, thus decrees.

 

 

[Richard E Warren]

Bonita wrote:

Will genetic editing rid us of degenerate and antisocial stocks? Will the genetic engineering of the next 20-50 years be able to discriminate socially defective and morally degenerate genomes from those which are not? These are the folks TUB is talking about, and this problem has little to do with science. It has to do with ethics. The eugenics TUB is referring to is an ethical matter, not a gene splicing matter.

Good point, but the debate will evolve to ethics and morality as science discovers the genetic basis of being.

…Religion is the mighty lever that lifts civilization from chaos, but it is powerless apart from the fulcrum of sound and normal mind resting securely on sound and normal heredity.70:8.18

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Richard E Warren

[Auteur]

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