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Well that’s one opinion. Most organizations in the universes of time have nothing to do with power or authority….they have to do with service to others. Organization is the law of the universe….there is no chaos except by lack of organization and the universe is very organized….organizations bring efficiencies to service. Even for profit businesses (a form of organization) will eventuate into service organizations.
You are wrong to declare there is no organization(s) in heaven and wrong again to claim organization is simply for “power” or self importance….the world cannot progress through the mortal epochs of time without it…..and neither can God’s will be expressed without it. As far as the Association is concerned, leadership comes from service experience and by frequent elections and there is far more responsibility than “power”….the authority lies in the membership and other servants and donors who fund and volunteer for all committees and operations and projects.
I have no idea what your rhetoric is about…but you’re zero for two with your last two posts IMO….just sayin’.
This quote comes to mind:
(241.1) 21:5.7 The elevation of a sevenfold bestowal Son to the unquestioned sovereignty of his universe means the beginning of the end of agelong uncertainty and relative confusion. Subsequent to this event, that which cannot be sometime spiritualized will eventually be disorganized; that which cannot be sometime co-ordinated with cosmic reality will eventually be destroyed. When the provisions of endless mercy and nameless patience have been exhausted in an effort to win the loyalty and devotion of the will creatures of the realms, justice and righteousness will prevail. That which mercy cannot rehabilitate justice will eventually annihilate.
Which brings to mind this:
(158:7.4) Peter spoke thus because he loved Jesus; but the Master’s human nature recognized in these words of well-meant affection the subtle suggestion of temptation that he change his policy of pursuing to the end his earth bestowal in accordance with the will of his Paradise Father. And it was because he detected the danger of permitting the suggestions of even his affectionate and loyal friends to dissuade him, that he turned upon Peter and the other apostles, saying: “Get you behind me. You savor of the spirit of the adversary, the tempter. When you talk in this manner, you are not on my side but rather on the side of our enemy. In this way do you make your love for me a stumbling block to my doing the Father’s will. Mind not the ways of men but rather the will of God.”
I love the notion that mercy rehabilitates. It means there’s always hope. Without hope, where would we be? Mercy and hope . . . two beautiful and stabilizing concepts.
3:5.8 3. Is hope—the grandeur of trust—desirable? Then human existence must constantly be confronted with insecurities and recurrent uncertainties.
3:5.16 Mortal man earns even his status as an ascension candidate by his own faith and hope.
148:6.11 At last his faith pierced the clouds of suffering to discern the light of life pouring forth from the Father as healing mercy and everlasting righteousness.”
The movement will continue to evolve and as the movement keeps focused on the teachings and the living in the Spirit, progress will continue in the movement and it will prosper best by organizations activated by service motive to our world.
The organizations you’re talking about Bradly are service motivated. They aren’t in the business of financial gain to my knowledge. People formed them for a purpose or several purposes and people, wisely or unwisely, rule them. They are not divine nor are the people who lead them. Hopefully though, the various leaders demonstrate wisdom, insight, and foresight, as they decide what direction to take their organization. Recall that the quantity of wise leadership in a population has never exceeded one per cent of them. (81:6.42) I venture the guess that the 1%ers tipped the scale in favor of not moving forward with organizational unity. Maybe it was too much to ask – to ask people to disown the past.
154:6.8 Mary and Jesus’ brothers thought that Jesus did not understand them, that he had lost interest in them, little realizing that it was they who failed to understand Jesus. Jesus fully understood how difficult it is for men to break with their past. He knew how human beings are swayed by the preacher’s eloquence, and how the conscience responds to emotional appeal as the mind does to logic and reason, but he also knew how far more difficult it is to persuade men to disown the past.But I am hopeful.4:1.4 There is no limitation of the forces and personalities which the Father may use to uphold his purpose and sustain his creatures. “The eternal God is our refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms.” “He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.” “Behold, he who keeps us shall neither slumber nor sleep.” “We know that all things work together for good to those who love God,” “for the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayers.”
Yes, for those who seek power and authority, organization is necessary. Then sometimes, all the rest unite to overthrow those whose intent is to use there position of authority to serve themselves. Just sayin.
What you say, “VanAmadon” would be correct in relation to the “document” presented, in that when one reads this narrative, and look into the actions or presentations of the “author” it would indicate that the repeated mention of the “Revelatory Commission” does not associate to any of the groups in question but, indicates a spiritual authority, which by the so called “authors” own, self proclaimed abilities, to communicate with spiritual beings throughout the Grand Universe, is indicating that, that which is not unified, is the spiritual communion with these spiritual entities, whom he proclaims to be the only physical being who can “channel”, to use a word, which has been dis-unified by the various groups. Notwithstanding, that some members of these groups believe in the validity to perform this communicative ability, but has been dis-en-vowed based on the teachings found within the Urantia Book.
One must, however keep in mind that the “document” “author”, seeks power through organizing or, an attempt to reorganize, which is more like d-organizing those groups, through miss-truths, wherein attempting to place focus on himself, as someone in a position of authority, which however only validates his own instability. It is also interesting that he attempts to teach “channeling” to others, whereby even some members of the other groups, have professed in having learned this ability which has been renamed to “transmitting and receiving” or T/R’ing, which is performed through a persons Thought Adjuster. We all know what the Urantia Book indicates how such an action can effect a persons stability.
Nevertheless, there are other organizations which have, over the hundreds of years, profess to teach the same abilities, like the various offshoots of “Rosicrucian-ism”, which has been around prior to the Urantia Book. So, it would seem that this so called “author” has taken advantage of the context within the Urantia Book, in order to promote his own self-proclaimed authority, which can also be associated to various psychosis’, which has been noted by this “author”.
The bottom line is that there will always be persons who will follow such types of individuals, and allow their free-will to assimilate, rather then use their free-will to associate to God’s Will, and know Him better.
Yes, for those who seek power and authority, organization is necessary. Then sometimes, all the rest unite to overthrow those whose intent is to use there position of authority to serve themselves. Just sayin.
What you say, “VanAmadon” would be correct in relation to the “document” presented, in that when one reads this narrative, and look into the actions or presentations of the “author” it would indicate that the repeated mention of the “Revelatory Commission” does not associate to any of the groups in question but, indicates a spiritual authority, which by the so called “authors” own, self proclaimed abilities, to communicate with spiritual beings throughout the Grand Universe, is indicating that, that which is not unified, is the spiritual communion with these spiritual entities, whom he proclaims to be the only physical being who can “channel”, to use a word, which has been dis-unified by the various groups. Notwithstanding, that some members of these groups believe in the validity to perform this communicative ability, but has been dis-en-vowed based on the teachings found within the Urantia Book.
One must, however keep in mind that the “document” “author”, seeks power through organizing or, an attempt to reorganize, which is more like d-organizing those groups, through miss-truths, wherein attempting to place focus on himself, as someone in a position of authority, which however only validates his own instability. It is also interesting that he attempts to teach “channeling” to others, whereby even some members of the other groups, have professed in having learned this ability which has been renamed to “transmitting and receiving” or T/R’ing, which is performed through a persons Thought Adjuster. We all know what the Urantia Book indicates how such an action can effect a persons stability.
Nevertheless, there are other organizations which have, over the hundreds of years, profess to teach the same abilities, like the various offshoots of “Rosicrucian-ism”, which has been around prior to the Urantia Book. So, it would seem that this so called “author” has taken advantage of the context within the Urantia Book, in order to promote his own self-proclaimed authority, which can also be associated to various psychosis’, which has been noted by this “author”.
The bottom line is that there will always be persons who will follow such types of individuals, and allow their free-will to assimilate, rather then use their free-will to associate to God’s Will, and know Him better.
Yes, for those who seek power and authority, organization is necessary. Then sometimes, all the rest unite to overthrow those whose intent is to use there position of authority to serve themselves. Just sayin.
What you say, “VanAmadon” would be correct in relation to the “document” presented, in that when one reads this narrative, and look into the actions or presentations of the “author” it would indicate that the repeated mention of the “Revelatory Commission” does not associate to any of the groups in question but, indicates a spiritual authority, which by the so called “authors” own, self-proclaimed abilities, to communicate with spiritual beings throughout the Grand Universe, is indicating that, that which is not unified, is the spiritual communion with these spiritual entities, whom he proclaims to be the only physical being who can “channel”, to use a word, which has been dis-unified by the various groups. Notwithstanding, that some members of these groups believe in the validity to perform this communicative ability, but has been dis-en-vowed based on the teachings found within the Urantia Book.
One must, however keep in mind that the “document” “author”, seeks power through organizing or, an attempt to reorganize, which is more like d-organizing those groups, through miss-truths, wherein attempting to place focus on himself, as someone in a position of authority, which however only validates his own instability. It is also interesting that he attempts to teach “channeling” to others, whereby even some members of the other groups, have professed in having learned this ability which has been renamed to “transmitting and receiving” or “T/R’ing”, which is performed through a person’s Thought Adjuster. We all know what the Urantia Book indicates how such an action can affect a person’s stability.
Nevertheless, there are other organizations which have, over the hundreds of years, profess to teach the same abilities, like the various offshoots of “Rosicrucian-ism”, which has been around prior to the Urantia Book. So, it would seem that this so called “author” has taken advantage of the context within the Urantia Book, in order to promote his own self-proclaimed authority, which can also be associated to various psychosis’, which has been noted by this “author”.
The bottom line is that there will always be persons who will follow such types of individuals, and allow their free-will to assimilate, rather than use their free-will to associate to God’s Will, and know Him better.
The movement will continue to evolve and as the movement keeps focused on the teachings and the living in the Spirit, progress will continue in the movement and it will prosper best by organizations activated by service motive to our world.
The organizations you’re talking about Bradly are service motivated. They aren’t in the business of financial gain to my knowledge. People formed them for a purpose or several purposes and people, wisely or unwisely, rule them. They are not divine nor are the people who lead them. Hopefully though, the various leaders demonstrate wisdom, insight, and foresight, as they decide what direction to take their organization. Recall that the quantity of wise leadership in a population has never exceeded one per cent of them. (81:6.42) I venture the guess that the 1%ers tipped the scale in favor of not moving forward with organizational unity. Maybe it was too much to ask – to ask people to disown the past.
154:6.8 Mary and Jesus’ brothers thought that Jesus did not understand them, that he had lost interest in them, little realizing that it was they who failed to understand Jesus. Jesus fully understood how difficult it is for men to break with their past. He knew how human beings are swayed by the preacher’s eloquence, and how the conscience responds to emotional appeal as the mind does to logic and reason, but he also knew how far more difficult it is to persuade men to disown the past.But I am hopeful.4:1.4 There is no limitation of the forces and personalities which the Father may use to uphold his purpose and sustain his creatures. “The eternal God is our refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms.” “He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.” “Behold, he who keeps us shall neither slumber nor sleep.” “We know that all things work together for good to those who love God,” “for the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayers.”Greetings Mara!! I find the movement at an interesting intersection today and the unity initiative responses seem to bear it out – there are those with long memories which foster a certain mistrust based on long ago events and those who are anxious, perhaps even impatient, with the evolutionary process who seem intent on re-forming a singular organization entity or a rebuilding of the scrambled egg of the onetime Brotherhood. There was a rather peculiar and very specific event that occurred with a leader of the Brotherhood followed some time later with a Foundation Trustee (don’t know that the two were even really related and over a decade in between the two events). The first delivered some division within the Brotherhood itself and the second delivered a great battle of wills and resentments between the Brotherhood and the Foundation (actually between some/many in the Brotherhood and a particular Trustee). Then came the channelers which caused general chaos, confusion, and much distress within the Fellowship….and remain a caustic source of confusion for some today.Some seem to hold onto the past and others want to dismiss it or ignore it….but from my experience in the very midst of all of these issues, I find reason to think that such human muddling forced everyone who serves to focus on that primary purpose of original formation – text preservation, book publishing and dissemination, translations of the Revelation, readership services, educational opportunities, personal connectivity of the readership, socialization, and organization building….and this was done by those who witnessed and participated in the trials, tribulations, and failures from 1975-1995….that’s called experience!!!! Idealism may fail time to time, but experience can bring wisdom….and so it did and has for many. I find experiential symmetry and progress in the results of those prior challenges and errors made by some in the past. I also know that there is far more people serving dissemination today than ever before with far more resources and organizational strength and utility with a rapidly growing readership!! Hooray! Error resulted in better priorities and choices…if less uniformity and for a season, less unity for some. But hardly all or even most.I think it a mistake to dismiss or ignore the painful lessons learned by past errors….the past will be repeated if it is not learned how better to proceed by the errors already made. I also think it a mistake to hold onto old resentments….and believe me, I had some!! Disappointment crushes some while others gain focus, determination, and strength. The uncertainties of the future frighten those same ones, who so often wish to reform the past (as if that could ever happen). The Treatise and The Michael Plan both look to and lament the past IMO. But truly, those who serve today should, and mostly are, looking forward at all the work at hand and the opportunity for servants to step up and serve, and the certain future of our world’s epochal transformations to come. There simply is no time for disappointment, resentment, or trepidation toward uncertainty today.Those who strive with a sincere heart to bring the Revelation to the world serve a much bigger cause and movement than our own personal preferences should concern themselves with. Mistakes were made. Mistakes are still made. Mistakes will yet be made. This is the nature of evolutionary progress. The accusations and demands of the Treatise are not helpful to those who look forward toward challenge and opportunity….and change. No one may go back. Who would really want to? This is a marvelous time in the history of this so recent gift to our world…only a mortal mind could dare to hide in the shadows of yesterday’s disappointments rather than relish the light of the truth and progress in the movement today.It is my understanding that unity is an important objective shared by all the organizations. But each has developed its own particular culture and priorities to disseminate. Such structures cannot simply be smashed together to bring instant unification. And might not ever do so….I don’t know….and don’t particularly care. But there can be no doubt as to the growing harmony, cooperation, dialogue, and mutual respect by the leadership of those organizations. Unity may not result in re-unification….two very different things indeed. Which I wonder is more important to those who cry out for the reconstruction of the past? For it appears that such shrill voices from outside any of those organizations seem hell bent on disunity and disharmony and the opportunity to profit by chaos…even if their claims were not tormented and twisted contradictions of the gift we have been given. Insane voices demanding insane responses…or so I see it!I believe time is on our side. And the organizations will prosper which serve with sincerity and integrity of the leadership, volunteers, members, and the global readership which responds to the teachings themselves. Peace and blessings to all who so serve!= )The bottom line is that there will always be persons who will follow such types of individuals, and allow their free-will to assimilate, rather than use their free-will to associate to God’s Will, and know Him better.
(88:1.9) Primitive man could not distinguish between genius and insanity; idiots were either beaten to death or revered as fetish personalities.
With civilized man, not much has changed. Some still have no idea, that they’re setting themselves apart “by the indulgence of the self-assertiveness of their intolerant minds and unspiritual natures.”
Bradly wrote: Mistakes were made. Mistakes are still made. Mistakes will yet be made. This is the nature of evolutionary progress.And how essential these mistakes are!! Vital, I would think. Free will is only free if it has the liberty to make mistakes. Oh joy for such mercy . . . for having enough mercy credits to cover all of our mistakes while we learn and grow. Thank you God!! Of course, we live in hope of making fewer and fewer mistakes, while at the same time forgiving others for their mistakes . . . this is the way we learn what it means to show mercy ourselves. We learn mercy by first being just, then fair, then patient and kind, then finally make an attempt at mercy. Apparently the growth of the ability to show mercy must proceed in that order. If we can accomplish true mercy toward others, it will certainly lead to group understanding and fraternal fellowship. It’s all good, but I don’t think many even try . . . or so it seems. But we live in hope of such things.
3:5:15 Free and inexperienced intelligence cannot possibly at first be uniformly wise.
118:7.3 Error in finite choosing is time bound and time limited. It can exist only in time and within the evolving presence of the Supreme Being. Such mistaken choosing is time possible and indicates (besides the incompleteness of the Supreme) that certain range of choice with which immature creatures must be endowed in order to enjoy universe progression by making freewill contact with reality.
130:4.11 The presence of evil constitutes proof of the inaccuracies of mind and the immaturity of the evolving self. Evil is, therefore, also a measure of imperfection in universe interpretation. The possibility of making mistakes is inherent in the acquisition of wisdom, the scheme of progressing from the partial and temporal to the complete and eternal, from the relative and imperfect to the final and perfected. Error is the shadow of relative incompleteness which must of necessity fall across man’s ascending universe path to Paradise perfection
28:6.8 While the spirit techniques of mercy ministry are beyond your concept, you should even now understand that mercy is a quality of growth. You should realize that there is a great reward of personal satisfaction in being first just, next fair, then patient, then kind. And then, on that foundation, if you choose and have it in your heart, you can take the next step and really show mercy; but you cannot exhibit mercy in and of itself. These steps must be traversed; otherwise there can be no genuine mercy. There may be patronage, condescension, or charity — even pity — but not mercy. True mercy comes only as the beautiful climax to these preceding adjuncts to group understanding, mutual appreciation, fraternal fellowship, spiritual communion, and divine harmony.
Bradly wrote: Mistakes were made. Mistakes are still made. Mistakes will yet be made. This is the nature of evolutionary progress.And how essential these mistakes are!! Vital, I would think. Free will is only free if it has the liberty to make mistakes.
Yes, and it’s also vital, if mistakes are made, to use the liberty of free will to turn about and grow.
(184:2.12) It requires a great and noble character, having started out wrong, to turn about and go right.
Bonita says above: “And how essential these mistakes are!! Vital, I would think. Free will is only free if it has the liberty to make mistakes. Oh joy for such mercy . . . for having enough mercy credits to cover all of our mistakes while we learn and grow. Thank you God!! Of course, we live in hope of making fewer and fewer mistakes, while at the same time forgiving others for their mistakes . . .”
Thanks Bonita!! I have long been comforted to discover in the Papers how progressive improvements in discernment and choice takes immeasurable time…..no matter how much sincerity we apply to perfecting, we must repeat and repeat even the same lessons, finding new forms of quality in our decision making. Growing wisdom is never absolute wisdom….there is always something more to learn in the acquisition of wisdom! Don’t really know when we might become “mistake free”.
My childhood Christianity taught me that when we are saved, we suddenly become perfected in heaven…we’re done! Hahahaha. That never made a lick of sense. Nod’s quote above does not mean that our “turn about” results in any immediate perfection but, rather, that it does take courage to admit to wrong choices, but also to less than perfect ones too. We must loosen our grip on our own self importance and preferences when experiential wisdom is the quest. Loyalty and sincerity and love and service do deliver proper motive and intentions, but wisdom requires many mistakes I think regardless of the quality of those foundational elements to growth and progress.
Jesus showed us examples of such great wisdom….and also the patience and mercy and kindness and fairness spoken of in the quote you posted:
28:6.8 While the spirit techniques of mercy ministry are beyond your concept, you should even now understand that mercy is a quality of growth. You should realize that there is a great reward of personal satisfaction in being first just, next fair, then patient, then kind. And then, on that foundation, if you choose and have it in your heart, you can take the next step and really show mercy; but you cannot exhibit mercy in and of itself. These steps must be traversed; otherwise there can be no genuine mercy. There may be patronage, condescension, or charity — even pity — but not mercy. True mercy comes only as the beautiful climax to these preceding adjuncts to group understanding, mutual appreciation, fraternal fellowship, spiritual communion, and divine harmony.
Thanks to all….these recent posts reminded me of the contrast/contradiction between the Treatise and the Revelation and such contradiction proves, to me, the source of that document must be entirely and exclusively sourced in, by, and from mortal mind(s).
When one considers the demands for specific choices/decisions for entire groups of mortals (but even such dictatorial declarations to even one mortal would suffice) – this contradicts reality regarding free will and the mistakes in time presented above. When one considers the deadline given – this defies patience. When one considers the threat for noncompliance – this defies fairness and mercy. When one considers the claim that past errors by some are now the fault of others and those are now subject to impatience, unfairness, and the loss of free will to make their own mistakes – this defies all aspects of the teachings including justice. The entire Treatise (regardless of its claims of authors, sources, and authority) is primarily an example of how any group of celestial ministers would NEVER present guidance or love…it epitomizes immaturity and the perspective that only a mortal mind might conger up.
Since the document itself is so obviously flawed and human in its contents, we should wonder what the real motive and the real intention might be for the mortal(s) who wrote it and who now publish and promote it might be. I do not think there is anything about it that might be construed as love or service motivated which only leaves some very disturbing alternatives. The UB teaches that the ends never justify the means…the sincere motive and intent of the ends MUST also attend the means or there is a fundamental and evil flaw at hand.
The document is very condescending…but without pity, charity, or even patronage….and a total lack of mercy. And this does not even begin to address the fictional default and failure of those thousands of servants of dissemination who sincerely served with devotion, kindness, loyalty, determination, and persistence over the past 60 years…each of whom will never be judged by the errors of any others, especially all others…what a crazy indictment indeed, based on false claims on so many levels.
Thanks again to everyone for your considerations and contributions on this important discussion. I have learned much. = )
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