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The Urantia Book is for the individual, not the group. All the explanation of what it says and what it means will come from within. It’s through this kind of comprehension that individuals will transform the world, one man and one woman at a time.
The UB is both for the individual and the group. Faith is for the individual. Comprehension of the text is geometrically, not arithmetically, enhanced by study in a group context. Reading the book in isolation is not the way to go. Where two or three are gathered together you’ve got dynamic potential for the comprehension of the material that is immensely greater than if the individual read it alone. In my experience in study group (we just started our 27th year of meeting weekly!) the difficult concepts in the book require concerted effort of many minds and still after many years, we look up from reading something particularly strenuous and remark, “Maybe we’ll get it next time!” And the next time around we do grasp more.
A person can have a thorough knowledge of the contents of the book, but such a knowledge does not indicate (in my opinion) that the person is transformed within. But whether or not someone is transformed or renewed in spirit, I know it is none of my business. It is my business to get the beams out of my own eyes. Day by day. Interesting discussion. There are no shortcuts. Appreciate everyone’s comments. So far no one here has stepped out of bounds on this topic. Don’t be tempted to rile yourself up. Keep calm. Be at peace. I pray 2017 will be the best year ever for one and all.
Cheers
Participation in a cult, a church congregation, a Urantia Book home study group or an online forum is fine. But if one allows another to explain what can only be discovered by seeking for themselves, by looking within, for the deep meanings of scripture, the revelations of the Urantia Book or the meaning of life, then one will forfeit the achievement of experiencing its discovery while reinforcing a codependency on another who may not even understand it themselves.
“The kingdom is within you.”
“Seek first the kingdom of heaven.”
Participation in a cult, a church congregation, a Urantia Book home study group or an online forum is fine. But if one allows another to explain what can only be discovered by seeking for themselves the deep meanings of scripture, the revelations of the Urantia Book or the meaning of life, by looking within, then one will forfeit the achievement of experiencing this while reinforcing a codependency on another who may not even understand it themselves.
“The kingdom is within you.”
“Seek first the kingdom of heaven.”
Granted “VanAmadon” this is a personal issue when it comes to “the deep meaning of scripture,” but not everyone reads the Urantia Book or the Bible for that matter, as scripture that must be followed, or else. With your type of presentation above it would seem that you follow these narrations as scripture, that’s fine for you but with your word or phase usage, you seem to contradict yourself by doing the same thing? I understand your premise and that there are influential individuals who fit into your definition, but in most cases they have questions which they would like others to present an opinion on, and I agree that sometimes the method used to reply to these questions may be scriptural but, how is that different than what you sometimes do?
While I won’t argue your point MidiChlorian, that I sometimes I do it too, the fact remains that men and women crave to be told what to believe. The “document” that this topic addresses and how it fits into the history of the Urantia Book and its adherents is plainly based on the inclinations of us humans to be impatient and want to be instantly gratified, if not sooner, with an understanding that’s easy to believe and assimilate, not to mention feeling like being a participant in an event of grand proportions.
The socialization of the readers of the Urantia Book is a natural out working of what we always do as humans. We get together somewhere or somehow, like on this forum. But the Urantia Book is something very unusual and unique, which makes this situation different than what’s ever come before.When I read what the Urantia Book says, it’s clear that the only way to realize what it reveals, one must head out of the safe harbor, even in the company of others, to discover individually what is already present right there within. While it remains true that discovering what is actually close by, a voyage out on uncharted waters is somewhat necessary in order to calibrate the real position of the goal of the search. The problem then becomes how to make the return trip home as our own pilot (when the realization is made out at sea) and at the same time, be submissive to the captain of someone else’s ship.
While I won’t argue your point MidiChlorian, that I sometimes do it too, the fact remains that men and women crave to be told what to believe. The “document” that this topic addresses and how it fits into the history of the Urantia Book and its adherents is plainly based on the inclinations of us humans to be impatient and want to be instantly gratified, if not sooner, with an understanding that’s easy to believe and assimilate, not to mention feeling like being a participant in an event of grand proportions.
The socialization of the readers of the Urantia Book is a natural out working of what we always do as humans. We get together somewhere or somehow, like on this forum. But the Urantia Book is something very unusual and unique, which makes this situation different than what’s ever come before.
When I read what the Urantia Book says, it’s clear that the only way to realize what it reveals, one must head out of the safe harbor, even in the company of others, to discover individually what is already present right there within. While it remains true that discovering what is actually close by, a voyage out on uncharted waters is somewhat necessary in order to calibrate the real position of the goal of the search. The problem then becomes how to make the return trip home as our own pilot (when the realization is made out at sea) and at the same time, be submissive to the captain of someone else’s ship.
Midichlorian, I agree with you 100 percent. You ask valid questions as well. I guess all we can do is remain vigilant.
When I read what the Urantia Book says, it’s clear that the only way to realize what it reveals, one must head out of the safe harbor, even in the company of others, to discover individually what is already present right there within. While it remains true that discovering what is actually close by, a voyage out on uncharted waters is somewhat necessary in order to calibrate the real position of the goal of the search. The problem then becomes how to make the return trip home as our own pilot (when the realization is made out at sea) and at the same time, be submissive to the captain of someone else’s ship.
Talk about a tortured metaphor! What does “be submissive to the captain of someone else’s ship” mean??
So is the “safe harbor” the Revelation? The one you claim to be Dangerous? I think any two nodisms in combination become a “Not-ism”. I’m not sure it takes two.
Got a quote to give us a hint what you are trying to say? Do you mean life must be lived and decisions made and experience gained? So we are taught in the Dangerous book (your claim). And this would have what to do with the topic?
Bonita wrote:What does “be submissive to the captain of someone else’s ship” mean??
Interesting that you should ask this Bonita. Rexford doesn’t know either.
Interesting that you should ask this Bonita. Rexford doesn’t know either.
What does Rexford have to do with it? Van/nod, I think you’ve gone daft in the head. I’m guessing you know what it means, since you wrote it. Do you mind answering my question? Why don’t you share your great depth of understanding with me?
VanAmadon wrote:The problem then becomes how to make the return trip home as our own pilot (when the realization is made out at sea) and at the same time, be submissive to the captain of someone else’s ship.
But we are not our own pilot. I thought you said you read TUB Van/nod. Our pilot is the Adjuster. The human will is the captain. Why would anyone want to be submissive to someone else’s will? And if your ship, which is your mind, is “at sea”, doesn’t that mean the mind is confused? At least that’s the customary meaning of the term “at sea”. I’ve never seen a more tortured metaphor, and until you explain it, I don’t think it has any useful meaning whatsoever. And if Rexford can’t figure out this nonsense, that makes two of us.
111:1.9 Mind is your ship, the Adjuster is your pilot, the human will is captain. The master of the mortal vessel should have the wisdom to trust the divine pilot to guide the ascending soul into the morontia harbors of eternal survival. Only by selfishness, slothfulness, and sinfulness can the will of man reject the guidance of such a loving pilot and eventually wreck the mortal career upon the evil shoals of rejected mercy and upon the rocks of embraced sin. With your consent, this faithful pilot will safely carry you across the barriers of time and the handicaps of space to the very source of the divine mind and on beyond, even to the Paradise Father of Adjusters.
From my Apple dictionary: at sea • (also all at sea)-confused or unable to decide what to do: he feels at sea with economics.
And why would anyone need to go anywhere to find God who is right inside their head? Do you mean get away from the distraction of people, places and things in order to commune with God? Well, that’s okay. Jesus told us to do our praying in secret and to spend some silent time with God in order to learn to hear his voice or perceive his presence. So yeah, I agree with that. But what does that have to with your tortured metaphor? Not following.
When I looked into the ub, I came across the channelers. They confused me for a while, then I read the book. My view on this is simple. It is to soon for a sixth, or a continueing revelation. The reason is because not enough time has passed. Thousands of years passed between each revelation. Isn’t it logical to assume that at least a thousand years would need to pass before any more revelations are given? Also, according to the histories, the last message that the revelators sent was “You are now on your own.” There was a time, (from what I gather) I’m not sure if it has passed, where being a fellowship supporter was understood as being a supporter of the channelers as well. Those who supported the foundation were viewed as… urantia book fundamentalists? I guess would be the best term I can come up with. They were viewed as not supporting or believing in Urantia channelers in whatever form they came in and believed in just the book itself. That, actually, was the reason that I decided to support the foundation when I became a ub believer… That, plus I could get around their website better than I could get around the fellowship’s.
Greetings Chuck!!
As one who has been labeled a “fundamentalist” on multiple websites/forums (including this one), I’d like to add my perspective on the subject. As best I can tell, a Text Fundy is simply one who believes the reality that “The UB says what it says and does not say what it does not say.” Simple, easy peasy!! It seems rather apparent and indisputable….but evidently not so! There are many readers, most often bearing an allegiance to prior conceptions of their own, that claim the UB says things it does not say at all or that it does not say what it clearly, and redundantly, does say. Thus, the value of study and study groups and the scholarship of those who know what it says and does not and are willing to specify that by posting the text itself….which some claim to be mindless text-trolling – naturally.
So, to believe the authors wrote what they wrote and did not write what they did not, leads to far more interesting and confusing issues – believing (or not) that which is plainly written, and the personal understanding of what is written in the text. I would suggest that Text Fundies do not need to “believe” what is written as it is written nor do we/they require that any others do so either. Not the point. Nor would any student worthy of the name think or require that all students have any singular appreciation or agreement for what the text “means” – the personal understanding of the text written. This certainly makes a UB Fundamentalist quite distinct from the Bible Thumper Fundamentalist I grew up with whose claim is that every word in the Bible is the word of God and is true (despite all the obvious contradictions contained therein). UB Fundies do not and cannot believe the UB is THE word of God and we/they do not believe any who disagree are doomed to hell and damnation.
Truly, to believe a book, any book, says what it says and doesn’t say what it doesn’t seems rather self evident…but you would be wrong to think so. The student body includes those minds that think the UB is a metaphor or riddle and requires interpretation by great minds (defined as those who declare such nonsense and then tell us what the written text “actually” means) or requires certain priestly “keys” to unlock the words for us more moronic and less astute ones who foolishly believe the authors actually meant to say what they then did say!
Now, as to the meaning of the words written, there are a couple of things that are readily discerned by both the words written – the teachings – and by experience. Truth must be experienced and it is personal and so while the words remain the same for all readers, it is obviously true that the meaning and the truth within those words is not uniform, universal, or singular in any way. Truth is discovered by choosing and living and the recognition of and response to reality. The UB is not the reality….it is but a factual description of reality. And the more real we each get, the more of reality there is to real-ize and embrace.
The other thing, which proves the first thing, is that experienced readers discover that the words written and which did not change, take on or deliver new meanings to the student over time – based on greater experience in living, learning, adapting, growing, maturing, etc. This form of dynamic appreciation is one of the most unusual and fascinating realities of the Revelation. How can words written that do not change then change in meaning in the same mind over time? That secret lies in the mind itself and the ministry of mind and the spirits within mind to affect mind and “adjust” mind when that mind is sincere, open, responsive, and growing by experience!
I don’t think any of this has anything to do with our loyalties to organizations or even dissemination. Like minded ones tend to gather together because they share objectives/goals or have specific interests and agendas in common and enjoy teamwork, interactive socialization, etc. This results in great diversity and non-uniformity…not a bad thing. And this is the danger of Nick’s Treatise and demands – that any single voice, even if it’s claimed to be celestial in source, cannot and can never dictate to others what others should be doing or how they should be doing it….this is a direct violation of God’s gift of free will….not to mention a rather stupid and counterproductive exercise in futility.
As to the notion that one who supports the Fellowship also supports channeling or that the Fellowship does – this is not true I do not think. The Fellowship and some of its members are merely “tolerant” of this group and those who make such claims…but many members of the Fellowship certainly do not believe in or support channeling – it’s actually become somewhat of a bone of contention and has been for a long, long time. The Association is not tolerant of such ones at Association sponsored events, journals and publications, social media, and discussion groups – the individuals are not banned, just the practice itself. I don’t think the Foundation takes any position related to membership guidelines of either the Association or the Fellowship – at least I am not aware of such.
Anyway….just a few thoughts your post brought to mind. Thanks for being here!
Bradly
So is the “safe harbor” the Revelation? The one you claim to be Dangerous? I think any two nodisms in combination become a “Not-ism”. I’m not sure it takes two. Got a quote to give us a hint what you are trying to say? Do you mean life must be lived and decisions made and experience gained? So we are taught in the Dangerous book (your claim). And this would have what to do with the topic?
The following is a recent post and exchange between myself (aka fanofVan) and VanAmadon (aka nodAmanaV) which helps explain nod/Am’s form of presentation. It is unfortunate that he still refuses to answer simple and direct questions and posts insinuating and obtuse and confrontational forms of posts. While nothing new (he began a “topic” entitled “The DANGERS of the URANTIA Book” at TruthBook), he did promise to stop doing so…as you will read below.
These were a public posting and not a PM or email and as nod has so recently said here: “VanAmadon wrote: Using different monikers in different forums is fine. Just don’t be deceitful about who you really are. In the end, making greetings and expressing friendship does nothing to cover up what’s happening. Personality has a way of being distinct, no matter how hard you try to feign that you’re somebody else.”
fanofVan wrote:
nod….hope you will excuse my confusion.You said: “The more you know what the Urantia Book says, the harder the goal becomes what it doesn’t say.”
Then said: “Knowing what the Urantia Book says should encourage the discovery of what it doesn’t say. That’s the goal that gets harder to reach when what it says is ignored.”
Hate to quibble….but this has not been my experience at all. For me, it has become easier and easier to experience life by the light and map of the UB and to adjust my motives, intentions, priorities, and choices by its study and implementation in the daily walk of life. The goal does not become harder….but easier. That goal does not get “harder to reach”….but then, I, for one, am not and have not “ignored” what it teaches.
(nod/Am replies): I’m glad you pointed this out Brad. Yes, I meant easier. I intended to clear it up by saying “Knowing what the Urantia Book says should encourage the discovery of what it doesn’t say.”
I need to admit that I’ve been engaging in using shock tactics to a degree (please forgive me), which I won’t do anymore. I was raised by a man who spoke in opposite terms to me all the time, and it’s one of those things that embedded deep in me that I struggle not to express like a programmed robot. He repeatedly told me that there isn’t a God but I know now that what he was really saying was not to look to him for the answers, which led me to discover that God does exist, and comfortingly nearby, within, my Father in heaven. I often look back on the things I post and realize that this rather automatic part of my personality is way behind the curve, it kind of runs in the family. To me it’s clear evidence that not only will I never fuse in the mortal life, I may never survive at all.
So I’m determined for a reset here. The Urantia Book is the greatest place to learn many of the things I needed to know in order to begin to grow spiritually. The rest will be determined by my faith and willingness to follow my inner guide to cooperate with the Father, and resist the sometimes overwhelming urge to contend with my brothers.
Your recent reply to me yesterday has opened my eyes much, and I’m relieved. SEla_Kelly’s latest topic he posted a couple of days ago also made me realize more of what I needed to know.
I hope that helps to clear things up.
(My response): nod – I appreciate the admission and candor….explains much over these past 18 months. I welcome your “reset” and anticipate a more focused discussion on the UB teachings and our personal religious experience related thereto.
Based on my prior discussions, arguments, disagreements, and debates, I would suggest it is far too late for you “to begin to grow spiritually” – meaning only that I am certain such growth has already occurred in multiple aspects of your heart, mind, and soul. Don’t be too hard on yourself. I hold no grudge nor harbor any ill will….and frankly, such discourse as we have had has enriched me due to all the research and thought I have had to muster to attempt to deliver contrast and allow the Papers to speak for themselves on so many issues!! It is by such questioning and such confusion that the student learns and the student teaches! No worries Brother…..I am quite confident of your soul’s survival and the fullness of your potential.
Brad aka fanofVan”
(163:3.4) And then said Peter, “But, Master, we have left everything to follow you, what then shall we have?” And Jesus spoke to all of the twelve: “Verily, verily, I say to you, there is no man who has left wealth, home, wife, brethren, parents, or children for my sake and for the sake of the kingdom of heaven who shall not receive manifold more in this world, perhaps with some persecutions, and in the world to come eternal life. But many who are first shall be last, while the last shall often be first. The Father deals with his creatures in accordance with their needs and in obedience to his just laws of merciful and loving consideration for the welfare of a universe.
And I’ll add to the list above, the Captains of the ships, these forums, you Bonita (Rexford) and others who persecute anyone who dares to follow Jesus and his Father within, instead of submitting to “authority”.
What are shock tactics? From my Apple dictionary: a strategy that uses violent or extreme action or imagery to shock someone into doing something:they are prepared to use shock tactics to get their message across.
Are we supposed to be shocked into doing something? Geeez, I don’t remember Jesus using shock tactics to get his message across. Although I admit, some people were shocked at what he said, but they were the unbelievers, and their shock made them dig in deeper against him. Seems like a bad way to go, all and all. Soooo, is the ship at sea metaphor a kind of self-inflicted shock tactic? Still don’t get it.
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