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(942.3) 84:8.2 Originally, property was the basic institution of self-maintenance, while marriage functioned as the unique institution of self-perpetuation. Although food satisfaction, play, and humor, along with periodic sex indulgence, were means of self-gratification, it remains a fact that the evolving mores have failed to build any distinct institution of self-gratification. And it is due to this failure to evolve specialized techniques of pleasurable enjoyment that all human institutions are so completely shot through with this pleasure pursuit. Property accumulation is becoming an instrument for augmenting all forms of self-gratification, while marriage is often viewed only as a means of pleasure. And this overindulgence, this widely spread pleasure mania, now constitutes the greatest threat that has ever been leveled at the social evolutionary institution of family life, the home.This is off topic but the quote above has always garnered my attention to wonder what the “distinct institution of self-gratification” that the mores failed to build should be, since it doesn’t exist? Does anyone have any ideas about this?
They describe institutions of self gratification here:
(772.8) 69:1.5 3. The institutions of self-gratification. These are the practices growing out of vanity proclivities and pride emotions; and they embrace customs in dress and personal adornment, social usages, war for glory, dancing, amusement, games, and other phases of sensual gratification. But civilization has never evolved distinctive institutions of self-gratification.
This is puzzling. I would think that we now have an extremely large institution of self-gratification in the media industry. Is Facebook an institution? I think it is, and I also think it’s all about self-gratification. I suppose this deserves a separate topic. Mara, let us know.
They describe institutions of self gratification here:
(772.8) 69:1.5 3. The institutions of self-gratification. These are the practices growing out of vanity proclivities and pride emotions; and they embrace customs in dress and personal adornment, social usages, war for glory, dancing, amusement, games, and other phases of sensual gratification. But civilization has never evolved distinctive institutions of self-gratification.
This is puzzling. I would think that we now have an extremely large institution of self-gratification in the media industry. Is Facebook an institution? I think it is, and I also think it’s all about self-gratification. I suppose this deserves a separate topic. Mara, let us know.
but what would qualify any of the above as “distinctive”
It says distinctive institutions, with an “s”. If distinctive means unique and specific, then I think the Olympics is a distinctive institution of self gratification. Miss America/Universe Pageant is a distinctive institution of self gratification, plus we now have Facebook. Seems to me we have a few distinctive institutions. I’m not saying they’re the best, and there are always people trying to tear them down, but that’s part of evolution, I think.
What I thought was a more interesting question is what are ” . . . specialized techniques of pleasurable human enjoyment”? What is pleasure besides the opposite of pain and suffering? And why do so many people equate pleasure with their sex organs? I’ve never understood that. It’s so temporary, not to mention narrow-minded.
84:8.2 And it is due to this failure to evolve specialized techniques of pleasurable enjoyment that all human institutions are so completely shot through with this pleasure pursuit.
Since this topic is about gonad identity, can we agree that it is a big problem? I have a friend who has a daughter with premature ovarian dysfunction. She’s only in her 20’s and has no hope of producing an egg or estrogen. This young woman decided to fully vest herself in Eastern and New Age religions. She firmly believes if she practices the kind of yoga that involves the chakras she will heal her disease. Her entire life focus, intellectually, emotionally, socially and spiritually is centered and locked on her root chakra, the center of her life force in her perineum. Now I ask, is this shift of identity to her gonads the plan her Adjuster has for her? I doubt it. Gonad identity is the opposite of soul identity, right? Isn’t it time to realize that this type of thinking is backwards? I think gonad identity is a symptom of a societal sickness.
Bonita, it sounds like you’ve exerted quite a bit of time and energy thinking about people who think about their gonads too much.
Bonita, it sounds like you’ve exerted quite a bit of time and energy thinking about people who think about their gonads too much.
Yes, I have exerted quite a bit of time and energy thinking. Thanks.
Bonita wrote: I suppose this deserves a separate topic.
Have we run out of ideas about the personality trends we call male and female? (84:6.6 )
Maybe there isn’t any more to say. Science hasn’t found a gene for one’s identity besides male and female. Will science ever find a personality gene? I don’t think so. I think a high percentage of humankind will continue to procreate, because of the mating instinct.
82:1.1 Notwithstanding the personality gulf between men and women, the sex urge is sufficient to insure their coming together for the reproduction of the species. This instinct operated effectively long before humans experienced much of what was later called love, devotion, and marital loyalty. Mating is an innate propensity, and marriage is its evolutionary social repercussion.
Within an individual the innate propensity to mate, along with all the learned social behaviors in one’s culture, including taboos and customs, is an act of self-perpetuation and pleasure, self-gratification. It’s a personal and unique experience that cannot be compared to any other human experience.
84:0.2 Mating is purely an act of self-perpetuation associated with varying degrees of self-gratification; marriage, home building, is largely a matter of self-maintenance, and it implies the evolution of society. Society itself is the aggregated structure of family units. Individuals are very temporary as planetary factors — only families are continuing agencies in social evolution. The family is the channel through which the river of culture and knowledge flows from one generation to another.
Even though self-gratification and self-perpetuation are associated in mating, I do think institutions of self-gratification deserve a separate topic, because the subject focuses on institutions that are the result of some social need, past or present. (69:1.1 ) Of institutions we are informed:
69:0.3 Civilized man takes great pride in the character, stability, and continuity of his established institutions, but all human Institutions are merely the accumulated mores of the past as they have been conserved by taboos and dignified by religion. Such legacies become traditions, and traditions ultimately metamorphose into conventions.
They describe institutions of self gratification here:
(772.8) 69:1.5 3. The institutions of self-gratification. These are the practices growing out of vanity proclivities and pride emotions; and they embrace customs in dress and personal adornment, social usages, war for glory, dancing, amusement, games, and other phases of sensual gratification. But civilization has never evolved distinctive institutions of self-gratification.
This is puzzling. I would think that we now have an extremely large institution of self-gratification in the media industry. Is Facebook an institution? I think it is, and I also think it’s all about self-gratification. I suppose this deserves a separate topic. Mara, let us know.
Would such institutions not include fashion, celebrity, make-up, jewelry, beauty, porn and sex promotion related, etc…..as determined and marketed by those who profit by such industry? Body shaming is one result as are many other forms of personal priorities and choices related to “vanity proclivities”….but there are many forms of suffering, domination, and victimization related thereto. I think social media reflects these proclivities but is only a tool….it’s a poor craftsman who blames their tools for their bad results.
Back to gender identity!
Having known, worked with, and befriended many gay people in my life, I’d like to add my 2 cents here. First let me express my admiration for how many of you demonstrate such a sensitivity and sound objectivity to the topic (although not all). I would add that regardless of one’s gender identity or sexual choices in partners, we all face the same challenges regarding the sex act itself. If it is not part of a caring and sharing intimacy by willing and mutually attracted people then it is shallow and dangerous (in many regards) and becomes merely gratification. But when two people share intimacy within love, then procreation is not a required nor holy obligation for such sharing….if so, I’ve been sinning for some time now for I’ve procreated no children for decades….and neither have I been celibate.
Anyone who claims gay people are going against God’s will (because of being gay, etc.) has a personal problem for their own attention (and is going against God’s will – hahaha). God’s will and way is LOVE and SERVICE. I’ve met many a kind, warm, generous, loving, and serving LGBT persons….many who proclaim faith in God and who exemplify the values and ideals given us in the UB….as individuals, couples, and families. So for those inclined to pigeonhole and stereotype….it is embarrassing, please stop. All of us are entitled to consideration as an ‘each’, unique and with full potential to grow in the spirit.
Jesus went to Rome! Sexual indulgences of all sorts were common in the streets, bath houses, and homes of Romans. I recall Jesus avoided all such dens of self gratification and debauchery. But he did not declare such people as lost or doomed….misguided is all. Casual sex is an error….no matter who is involved or what their gender identity might be. Leisure and wealth brings both opportunity and tragedy to the world….it’s up to each to choose wisely from all the choices available. But it is not the choice made but the motive and reason for the choice that measures our spirit identity….which transcends all gender issues of every kind. Or so I believe.
A theory of mine regarding the gender identity issue: Each person has a unique and very personal gender identity and does so regardless of sexual orientation. Manly men have feminine attributes and girly girls have masculine proclivities. On a scale of 1-10 for each gradient of masculine traits/preferences and feminine traits/preferences, each of us will score differently on each scale. I like to cook and arrange flowers and play with small children….my wife claims I’m on the masculine side for sure but just “gay enough”….hahaha. I think I’m all John Wayne…cowboy way by nature. Evidently, I’m both. And who isn’t? My wife is as feminine as any woman I know but she grew up a tomboy with older brothers and can call a baseball, football, or basketball game better than any man I know! And can she throw a ball!!!!
Those unfamiliar with gay people might not know but in most couples I’ve met, one partner is more masculine and one is more feminine (gay and lesbian couples both). To claim such couples do not enjoy or express strength of integrated but differing perspectives delivering balance and harmony in family functionality only shows one’s lack of experience….and should bring caution regarding declarations and assumptions related to such couples and families. There are very masculine gays and very effeminate lesbians and every combo in between.
I have no idea the source of such self-identification issues. I am certain of the ideal but where does the ideal exist in our world related to so many failures, weaknesses, and faults of so many kinds….most of which are far more important than who loves who and how?
Thanks everyone….lovely.
Maybe it would be useful to define the meaning of the word identity? What determines identity? Is it determined by sex, race, job, income, nationality, religion, etc.? Or is it determined by something else?
According to paper 112, identity is transient and material. It is our material mind and is subordinate to the free will of the personality. It is even referred to as a “parasitic stage” of human life.
So in the context of this thread, gender identity is really not an issue beyond the material lifespan of our time on Urantia. Our personality is what is carried forward into the morontia life.
112:5.3
…But mortal personality, through its own choosing, possesses the power of transferring its seat of identity from the passing material-intellect system to the higher morontia-soul system which, in association with the Thought Adjuster, is created as a new vehicle for personality manifestation.
Personality pattern has an innate drive called evolution of dominance, and its purpose is to transfer identity from material to spiritual; the spiritual having dominance over the material. So, identifying with your physical sex and whatever that means to you, results in viewing reality from that vantage point, which is backwards. It’s one of those nondoable things which frustrates people so much, and is probably one of the reasons for so much of the social unrest around it . . . square peg/round hole kinda thing.
I think it is really dangerous to identify with something that is wholly physical/material; and that also includes what people think their sex means. Whatever it is, it’s not stable because it is subject to change according to the culture. Even so, feminine and masculine personality types/trends are real and possibly eternal, but here’s the rub. If personality is a pattern from God which is bestowed upon our material energy system with either feminine or masculine trends, then it really has nothing to do with identity. Personality is not identity. Personality is devoid of identity, which means the female and male personality trends it provides are also not identity. They are simply patterns which influence the form in which identity will manifest itself.
p1225:7 112:0.7 5. Personality, while devoid of identity, can unify the identity of any living energy system.
This personality cannot identify with or be tolerant of homo or trans sexuality. They do not contribute to human race progress and the social pressure to be tolerant of so many things that are either deviant or illegal or contrary to my morality are great but my response is to dig my heals in and become more of what I am. And so many are intolerant of me. I make honest effort to look for real meaning and value and I sincerely pray about it but If it’s not there then pretending it’s there is not a good idea.
If I confirmed to the training I received in the early 90’s when affirmative action was beginning, I would now be intolerant of my own race and gender. Didn’t happen.
Hi,
# 28545
Such a loss of personality integration can result in various mental and social disorders that are acted out in many ways, perhaps gender confusion being one of them.
But even in the normal growth process of the child the initially achieved unification of personality-identity is challenged again and again by discovery of new factors that also may be part of that mysterious, inexhaustible personality, in which everything already potentially exists, but not experientially. Such factors, before being integrated in the identity, often manifest themselves in a feeling of lacking something, in uncertainty and anxiousness. As these new factors in experience are integrated, the center of the identity, the seat of the “I,” moves upwards. Initially it was located in the material mind, now it begins to move to the intellectual mind, and it may move upwards to the spiritual mind. This means that man recognizes values in the intellectual and spiritual domain. “Where your treasures are, there your heart will be.” The ego gradually changes into selfhood. Henry Begemann,
http://www.urantiabook.org/archive/readers/personality_identification_process.htm
Just doing research, try to figure out.
Hi,
… heterosexuality is better than homosexuality? # 28551
Having an homosexual perspective …
Reading and thinking about what revealators said … will be more than inappropriate stand-up and saying otherwise.
Revealators qualifying cooperation of a man and a woman to be vastly superior in most ways.
I am the first one to recognizes a physical complementarity regarding male-female. Must this complementarity included the physical strength and focused rationality of men, the emotional acuity and generosity of women.
By chance, planets are not subject to an Adam & Adam or Eve & Eve !!!
Whom are better?
Better in which regards? … volition objective?
… continue
As gay and reader of UB I have no intend to be on offensive mode regarding revelations reveals in TUB.
I reserved my defensive mode towards individuals whom statute God or TUB haves “preferences” concerning differend behavior.
Bradly well underline such ignorant and immature statement.
Among gay readers perspective, point of view are as indecisive, incertainty tinged.
Some assumed they are without doubts of affirmative differences and they haven’t been under marginal tricky course of life.
Others as me keep a doubfull point of view. We assume our orientation. And as you said Bonita, we will be ready on mansion world be under corrective processus if need to be.
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