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We had a lively discussion in study group last night about some of the material in Paper 84. It was an evening of hilarity from all the good humor, back and forth. Not that the material itself was funny, but rather all of us seemed in the mood to laugh and the puns were funny. Personally, I don’t care what a person’s identity is as regards how they see themselves gender-wise. I don’t care if a person identifies as tall or short, fat or thin or whatever. God is no respecter of persons and I stand with God. I do not think God cares about how you see yourself with respect to your gender.
But some of the material raised questions in our group in light of the various ways gender is identified these days. Some of us have family members who see themselves as different from their birth or biologic identity. I personally think that one’s gender identity is biologic and that it is not a choice, as some may believe. On the subject of choice, a friend of mine asked, “When did you choose to be heterosexual?” Ha! I didn’t!.
People were in the closet before, but now there is a pride in one’s gender identity. But the book is pretty clear about the ideals of marriage, homebuilding, family, perpetuation of the human race, some of which is biologic, and some sociologic..
In talking about the differences in nature between men and women, we read:.
84:6.5 The differences of nature, reaction, viewpoint, and thinking between men and women, far from occasioning concern, should be regarded as highly beneficial to mankind, both individually and collectively. Many orders of universe creatures are created in dual phases of personality manifestation. Among mortals, Material Sons, and midsoniters, this difference is described as male and female; among seraphim, cherubim, and Morontia Companions, it has been denominated positive or aggressive and negative or retiring. Such dual associations greatly multiply versatility and overcome inherent limitations, even as do certain triune associations in the Paradise-Havona system..
And that. . ..
84:6.6 Men and women need each other in their morontial and spiritual as well as in their mortal careers. The differences in viewpoint between male and female persist even beyond the first life and throughout the local and superuniverse ascensions. And even in Havona, the pilgrims who were once men and women will still be aiding each other in the Paradise ascent. Never, even in the Corps of the Finality, will the creature metamorphose so far as to obliterate the personality trends that humans call male and female; always will these two basic variations of humankind continue to intrigue, stimulate, encourage, and assist each other; always will they be mutually dependent on co-operation in the solution of perplexing universe problems and in the overcoming of manifold cosmic difficulties..
Do you think gender identity is a “dual phase of personality manifestation” or “personality trends” we call male and female?
No I don’t.
(53:7.2) Throughout this period Caligastia was advocating the cause of Lucifer on Urantia. The Melchizedeks ably opposed the apostate Planetary Prince, but the sophistries of unbridled liberty and the delusions of self-assertion had every opportunity for deceiving the primitive peoples of a young and undeveloped world.
Identifying with something other than the gender you were born as, is a new manifestation of a very ancient problem.
It’s just another version of “the delusion of self-assertion.”
Mara,
Your discussion group topic sounds fascinating; I have to admit that I have been curious about this as well. I agree with you that “God is no respecter of persons and I stand with God. I do not think God cares about how you see yourself with respect to your gender.”
Undoubtedly, our complex physiological chemistry, combined with the personality difficulties that occur with some frequency on Urantia due to our genetic inheritance (or lack thereof), can result in an unbalanced or confused interpretation of gender identity. Such a loss of personality integration can result in various mental and social disorders that are acted out in many ways, perhaps gender confusion being one of them. I have considerable empathy for those who find themselves struggling with this but I see it as no different than any other struggles any of us have in our day to day lives here on this troubled planet.
I find myself being overly conscious of the presence or lack there of- of Adam’s apples as I make my way through various locations here on the left coast.
But then again, as a child growing up in San Francisco, homosexuals did not really have gender identity issues. But I was not looking for Adam’s apples at that age.
I apologize if this is a naïve question, but is “looking for Adam’s apples” a euphemism for being attracted to the male gender?
I apologize if this is a naïve question, but is “looking for Adam’s apples” a euphemism for being attracted to the male gender?
funny!
had not really thought about it that way.
No, it’s more of a safeguard against getting friendly with what looks like a woman. The apple is a dead giveaway. It’s not always easy to tell with all the bazaar surgeries and make up that are available.
just did a job at a local casino and the security guard that checked me in really fooled me, it appeared to be a man, masculine in almost every respect except the voice and lack of an apple – after I figured it out I told her I liked her haircut. I was being honest. She did not take it as a compliment.
I believe it is impossible for a man that self identifies as woman to actually be a woman, especially in the roll of a mother in a family where it really counts.
I never thought about male female as two different manifestations of personality but there is something very fundamental about male female distinctions that transcends our mortal bodies and existence.
in Jesus travels he met many different people, I don’t think he met any that were gender compromised. Also, Jesus was a man and lived his life as a man. He remains male and was male before his incarnation here. There is a message/revelation maybe? in this fact.
how about this, does being gender compromised indicate homosexuality??
Do you think this quote (sorry for being taken out of context) is saying that heterosexuality is better than homosexuality? And doesn’t the last sentence seems to go against the current unisex fad?
(932.6) 84:1.9 Regardless of the antagonisms of these early pairs, notwithstanding the looseness of the association, the chances for survival were greatly improved by these male-female partnerships. A man and a woman, co-operating, even aside from family and offspring, are vastly superior in most ways to either two men or two women. This pairing of the sexes enhanced survival and was the very beginning of human society. The sex division of labor also made for comfort and increased happiness.
Do you think this quote (sorry for being taken out of context) is saying that heterosexuality is better than homosexuality?
“Better” … for what? My interpretation of the TUB is that it clearly states that [heterosexual] relations is, obviously, necessary for forming families, which are the cornerstone of civilization and perhaps even of religion. So, yes, TUB clearly has a preference for heterosexual family groups. That said, I see nothing in the TUB that prohibits homosexual relations on a sort of …. recreational? …. basis.
I don’t see anything in TUB that says homosexuality is evil or unnatural, even. Plenty of other species engage in homosexual activities despite not being of procreational utility.
That said, I see nothing in the TUB that prohibits homosexual relations on a sort of …. recreational? …. basis. I don’t see anything in TUB that says homosexuality is evil or unnatural, even. Plenty of other species engage in homosexual activities despite not being of procreational utility.
I didn’t ask about prohibitions or evil. I asked if the quote was indicating that the cooperation from a heterosexual couple is superior to the cooperation from a homosexual couple? Take the sex out of it. “A man and a woman, co-operating, even aside from family and offspring, are vastly superior in most ways to either two men or two women.”(84:1.9)
It’s clear that the experience of an average sex relationship is critical because deprivations must be made up for on the mansion worlds by association with a heterosexual pair, the Material Sons and Daughters. I believe the following quote is indicting that homosexual relations are not average and those who cannot benefit from heterosexual relationships are considered sex-deficient. I know the homosexual community would love to argue that their sex relations are average, but I think that’s a stretch, especially since the celestial model for sexual relationships is a male and female.
(516.1) 45:6.3 On the seven mansion worlds ascending mortals are afforded ample opportunities for compensating any and all experiential deprivations suffered on their worlds of origin, whether due to inheritance, environment, or unfortunate premature termination of the career in the flesh. This is in every sense true except in the mortal sex life and its attendant adjustments. Thousands of mortals reach the mansion worlds without having benefited particularly from the disciplines derived from fairly average sex relations on their native spheres. The mansion world experience can provide little opportunity for compensating these very personal deprivations. Sex experience in a physical sense is past for these ascenders, but in close association with the Material Sons and Daughters, both individually and as members of their families, these sex-deficient mortals are enabled to compensate the social, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual aspects of their deficiency. Thus are all those humans whom circumstances or bad judgment deprived of the benefits of advantageous sex association on the evolutionary worlds, here on the system capitals afforded full opportunity to acquire these essential mortal experiences in close and loving association with the supernal Adamic sex creatures of permanent residence on the system capitals.
What is the history of same sex attraction…homosexuality? The cause?
Is there a fundamental defect somewhere in our genes?
Is there a fundamental defect somewhere in our genes?
They still can’t find the “gay” gene, not even in identical twins with different sexual preferences.
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