The Bright and Morning Star

[emanny3003]

Keryn wrote:

I cannot think of any harm that may have come from giving them the awareness in advance that the child they are carrying is of unprecedented import.

What about the tremendous discord between mother and son as to his Mission on Earth. Messiah of the Jewish variety or spiritual teacher?

Keryn wrote:

Me, here. Clearly, Michael is too busy to write his autobiography.

Michael is in charge of time. No excuse if he really wanted to write it. As it is, he did not even allow his name in TUB as a sponsor of any paper.

Keryn wrote:

Keep in mind, also, that Elizabeth and Mary were far from the only people to be given advance notice.

But not by Gabriel personally. Who authorized Gabriel to give notice to Mary? Who authorized the unnamed seraphim?

Bonita wrote:

I’m inclined to believe that Gabriel’s visitations were an integral part of the bestowal plan.

We are told of the bestowal plan and this detail was left out. Why? Was it authorized by Immanuel or did Gabriel do this one this own? Or did Michael tell Gabriel to disclose this to Mary? I can hear the Master say, “tell no one”.

Bonita wrote:

They were all the more astonished when John now made known to them the story of the Gabriel visitation to Mary before Jesus was born, and also that Jesus spoke no word to him even after he had told him about this.

(135:9.1)

Jesus did not acknowledge to John the issue of Gabriel’s visitation to Mary. Hmmm.

tas wrote:

“One evening about sundown, before Joseph had returned home, Gabriel appeared to Mary by the side of a low stone table and, after she had recovered her composure, said: “I come at the bidding of one who is my Master and whom you shall love and nurture. To you, Mary, I bring glad tidings…” (122:3.1)

The reason Gabriel announced to Mary that she was carrying the child of destiny was because Gabriel was told to do so.  Anybody who wants to question the wisdom of that further, they’ll have to take it up with the Creator Son.

I already have.

We assume that Gabriel’s Master is none other than Michael, but at this time Michael was already incarnated. Was Gabriel told to do such a thing before the bestowal of Michael or by Immanuel?

Bradly wrote:

It sounds by your inquiry that you doubt who’s in charge and then who’s in charge of them.  You think Michael is missing?  Or indifferent?  Or lacks control or authority?  Weird.  That’s all a little above my pay grade to speculate or make claims or doubt or fear.</blockquote

It sounds by your inquiry to my inquiry that you really don’t care. So it is better to shut up in such cases. Pay grade?

I thought you were a volunteer to fear and doubt.

Mark Kurtz wrote:

Many of our questions are addressed in the book!  This is a marvelous feature of the book!

But I have so many more questions. And I am getting them answered. Ask and you shall receive.

[Bonita]

So Bradly,  what did you think of my answer to your question about righteous indignation?  Did you get a chance to read it? Post #13201

[Bradly]

I found it to be spot on!  Thank you.  That explains it very well I think.  Jesus allowed plots against his life, and insults, and entrapments, and all manner of vicious personal abuse with no response.  But to those who cause unfair suffering and exploit others his indignation was allowed expression.  I remember him saying something about defending himself to Ganid and supporting those who suffer from an unrighteous minority to remove them; both of which further support your explanation.  You’re a peach Bonita.  And I am grateful for your persistent patience with this tadpole.

By the way, for those who do not know my definition of tadpole:  all ascending mortals who are not yet fused, still have their tadpole tail and live underwater yet….so I do not demean myself…..or elevate others by my use of the term.  I think it is what was meant by the “parable” or lesson on loyalty and sincerity.  Hey…..I really enjoy my current status.  There’s so much to do and learn.  It’s great fun when one believes in the source and the destiny of tadpoles!!

[Bonita]

Bradly wrote: Jesus allowed plots against his life, and insults, and entrapments, and all manner of vicious personal abuse with no response.

That’s right.  Jesus did not engage in self-defense.  Self-defensive behavior is only necessary for those who think their self is important enough to defend.  Jesus was selfless, so no need to defend it.

Self-defensiveness must be a stumbling block to the acceptance of truth.  I say that because Jesus told us that he used parables because they aroused very little of the self–defensiveness of personal resentment (151:3.8).  If only we could all converse in parables . . .  but alas not.

[emanny3003]

Bonita wrote:

If only we could all converse in parables . . .  but alas not.

Perhaps we can converse in parabolas? Ha Ha. Just a little humor as we are in sore need of it here.

[Bonita]

122:02  . . . Subsequent to this decision Gabriel made a personal visit to Urantia, and, as a result of his study of human groups and his survey of the spiritual, intellectual, racial, and geographic features of the world and its peoples, he decided that the Hebrews possessed those relative advantages which warranted their selection as the bestowal race.

Gabriel chose the Hebrews . . . hmmm, so in a sense, they were the chosen people.  They were chosen because of their spiritual, intellectual, racial and geographic features, but not necessarily because of their organized, evolutionary religion.  It is interesting that the Hebrews rabbis understood Gabriel to be an archangel, one of the highest angels in the celestial hierarchy and the leader of the angelic hosts.  Along with the archangel Michael, he is mentioned by name in the Hebrew scriptures (Daniel 8&9), mostly involving the interpretation of dreams, visions and prophecy.

[nelsong]

hmmm, so in a sense, they were the chosen people.

______________________________________________________________________

This notion was masterfully capitalized upon over the centuries. Likely without this concept Judeo/Christian would not exist. It hung on like the atonement doctrine. A fanatical response to spiritual interaction IMHO. A hard lesson to be learned if it ever happens.

[emanny3003]

Bonita wrote:

122:02  . . . Subsequent to this decision Gabriel made a personal visit to Urantia, and, as a result of his study of human groups and his survey of the spiritual, intellectual, racial, and geographic features of the world and its peoples, he decided that the Hebrews possessed those relative advantages which warranted their selection as the bestowal race.

Gabriel chose the Hebrews . . . hmmm, so in a sense, they were the chosen people.

Here Gabriel chooses the parents of Jesus, a personal decision on his part.

When Gabriel chose to visit Mary with news of her “son of destiny” he attributed his visit to the “bidding of his Master”

So we are told that Gabriel is free to decide on his own accord to “choose” the parents of Jesus but wants us to believe that in visiting Mary and Elizabeth he had acted on orders from his Master. Hmmm. Does this seem logical? Is Gabriel looking for an excuse for having ‘spilled the beans’, ‘let the cat out of the bag’, with Mary and Elizabeth? He did tell Mary to tell no one except Joseph and Elizabeth of his visitation. Payton Place in Nazareth?

[Mara]

Bonita wrote:  Gabriel chose the Hebrews . . .

And this is the reference – the context:

122:0:2   After a study of the special report on the status of segregated worlds prepared by the Melchizedeks, in counsel with Gabriel, Michael finally chose Urantia as the planet whereon to enact his final bestowal. Subsequent to this decision Gabriel made a personal visit to Urantia, and, as a result of his study of human groups and his survey of the spiritual, intellectual, racial, and geographic features of the world and its peoples, he decided that the Hebrews possessed those relative advantages which warranted their selection as the bestowal race. Upon Michael’s approval of this decision, Gabriel appointed and dispatched to Urantia the Family Commission of Twelve — selected from among the higher orders of universe personalities — which was intrusted with the task of making an investigation of Jewish family life. When this commission ended its labors, Gabriel was present on Urantia and received the report nominating three prospective unions as being, in the opinion of the commission, equally favorable as bestowal families for Michael’s projected incarnation.

A study was conducted. A special report prepared.  Michael chose Urantia. Gabriel came to Urantia and chose the Hebrews.  Michael approved of the decision. Gabriel dispatched a special commission of 12 selected from among the higher orders of universe personalities to further study Jewish family life.  Gabriel got the report of the commission’s findings that three equally favorable bestowal families were found for Michael’s incarnation.

And from the three couples nominated, Gabriel made the personal choice of Joseph and Mary, subsequently making his personal appearance to Mary, at which time he imparted to her the glad tidings that she had been selected to become the earth mother of the bestowal child.

[emanny3003]

Mara wrote:

And from the three couples nominated, Gabriel made the personal choice of Joseph and Mary, subsequently making his personal appearance to Mary, at which time he imparted to her the glad tidings that she had been selected to become the earth mother of the bestowal child.

And the question remains as to why it was necessary to tell Mary of anything special about her child especially when Jesus was to grow up and live the life of an average mortal. By telling Mary of the child of destiny that she carried, Gabriel betrayed the bestowal by injecting false expectations and confusion into the mind of the mother of Jesus. Why did Gabriel do this? At the bidding of his Master? This seems to be wrong somehow. If Michael wanted to live a life as a man among men, then why cripple his efforts from day one with news to his parents of matters beyond their understanding? Does anyone else think this is counter productive to the bestowal?

[Mara]

emanny3003 wrote:  And the question remains as to why . . . .

Who knows?  It is speculation.

[Bonita]

Mara wrote:  Gabriel came to Urantia and chose the Hebrews.

And the UB gives us clues as to why Gabriel chose the Hebrews.  We know the following:

• The Jews were eminently fitted to utilize Greek culture and language the effective spread of a new religion to both East and West. (121:1.1)
• The influence of Jewish religious and moral teachings were rapidly spreading throughout the Occident. (121:1.6)
• The Jews were the most influential group of the Semitic peoples. (121:2.1)
• The Jews occupied a strategic geographic position in the world for organized trade and travel. (121:2.1-2)
• The Jews were spread abroad in the diaspora, dwelling and trading in every province of the Roman and Parthian states. (121:2.3)
• The Jews had more than two hundred synagogues and well-organized religious communities scattered throughout the Roman world, which provided the cultural centers in which the new gospel of the kingdom of heaven could take root and spread. (121:2.4)
• Each Jewish synagogue tolerated a fringe of gentile believers. (121:2.5)
• The Jewish people enjoyed a considerable degree of self-government, mostly because of their fortuitous geopolitical situation. (121:2.7-8)

[emanny3003]

Bonita wrote:

And the UB gives us clues as to why Gabriel chose the Hebrews.  We know the following:

Obviously the best choice on Gabriel’s part. But in choosing the parents of Jesus he also chose to tell Mary of the bestowal. I do not think it was wise and Michael may not have approved but did not forbid it.

[Mara]

And the UB gives us clues as to why Gabriel chose the Hebrews. We know the following:

• The Jews were eminently fitted to utilize Greek culture and language the effective spread of a new religion to both East and West. (121:1.1)
• The influence of Jewish religious and moral teachings were rapidly spreading throughout the Occident. (121:1.6)
• The Jews were the most influential group of the Semitic peoples. (121:2.1)
• The Jews occupied a strategic geographic position in the world for organized trade and travel. (121:2.1-2)
• The Jews were spread abroad in the diaspora, dwelling and trading in every province of the Roman and Parthian states. (121:2.3)
• The Jews had more than two hundred synagogues and well-organized religious communities scattered throughout the Roman world, which provided the cultural centers in which the new gospel of the kingdom of heaven could take root and spread. (121:2.4)
• Each Jewish synagogue tolerated a fringe of gentile believers. (121:2.5)
• The Jewish people enjoyed a considerable degree of self-government, mostly because of their fortuitous geopolitical situation. (121:2.7-8)

 

 

And,  122:0:1 IT WILL hardly be possible fully to explain the many reasons which led to the selection of Palestine as the land for Michael’s bestowal, and especially as to just why the family of Joseph and Mary should have been chosen as the immediate setting for the appearance of this Son of God on Urantia.

[emanny3003]

Mara wrote:

And,  122:0:1 IT WILL hardly be possible fully to explain the many reasons which led to the selection of Palestine as the land for Michael’s bestowal, and especially as to just why the family of Joseph and Mary should have been chosen as the immediate setting for the appearance of this Son of God on Urantia.

And what are YOUR thoughts on this, Mara? What does YOUR TA tell you? Have you asked? Have you listened?

[Author]

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