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I disagree.
Disagree with what??? The text is NOT saying Gabriel IS the Lord or Deity either one…the quotation marks mean someone called Gabriel this and that he is indeed the leader of the heavenly hosts (of Nebadon only). The quotes indicate another source for the term so enclosed. Nothing controversial about it.
I agree with you Bradly. The quote is quite clear that Gabriel has three titles:
Supreme commander of the armies of heaven.
Chief executive of the Sovereign of Nebadon.
Lord God of hostsI disagree with the last tile. Who gave Gabriel the title, “Lord God of hosts”?
The Bright and Morning Star is the ideal of divinity. He is the highest personality in the local universe after his parents. His divinity is equal to both the Creative Son and Spirit; his thoughts and actions will ever be fully representative of both of his parents. The only deity attributes not imparted to him by his creator parents are their creator and life impartation prerogatives (33:4.4); otherwise, he partakes of their attributes fully, and in addition, has some of his own due to his combined parentage.
What is the difference between deity and divinity, one might ask?
117:3.9 Deity is unity, existential in the Trinity, experiential in the Supreme, and, in mortals, creature-realized in Adjuster fusion.
0:1.16 Divinity is the characteristic, unifying, and co-ordinating quality of Deity.
He is the highest personality in the local universe after his parents.
In what order would God place us in personality status as compared to Gabriel? I would suggest to you that I have equal standing in personality status according to God. He is no respecter of persons. Gabriel’s personality stands no higher than mine or yours.
His divinity is equal to both the Creative Son and Spirit; his thoughts and actions will ever be fully representative of both of his parents.
Show me the quote where it says that Gabriel’s divinity is EQUAL to that of Michael’s.
“Gabriel of Salvington is “like” the Universe Son in divinity of nature though “considerably limited” in the attributes of Deity.” (33:4.2)
Bradly wrote:Nothing controversial about it.Isn’t controversy interesting? Very early on the UB we’re told the following:2:3.5 In any universe contest between actual levels of reality, the personality of the higher level will ultimately triumph over the personality of the lower level. This inevitable outcome of universe controversy is inherent in the fact that divinity of quality equals the degree of reality or actuality of any will creature. Undiluted evil, complete error, willful sin, and unmitigated iniquity are inherently and automatically suicidal. Such attitudes of cosmic unreality can survive in the universe only because of transient mercy-tolerance pending the action of the justice-determining and fairness-finding mechanisms of the universe tribunals of righteous adjudication.Gabriel is the ideal of divinity in our universe. Looks to me like he has a very high degree of REALNESS and therefore is someone worthy of a massive amount of respect. And it also looks to me like he’s the guy who is going to ultimately triumph, that is, if you go by what’s written in 2:3.5.32:2.6 . . . the Bright and Morning Star, the personification of this initial creative concept of identity and ideal of divinity.emanny3003 wrote: In what order would God place us in personality status as compared to Gabriel? I would suggest to you that I have equal standing in personality status according to God. He is no respecter of persons. Gabriel’s personality stands no higher than mine or yours.Gabriel 33:4:6 is “. . . the combined chief executive of both the super- and the local universe rulers.” He is 38:6:2 “. . . the ‘supreme commander of the armies of heaven,’ the chief executive of the Sovereign of Nebadon, ‘the Lord God of hosts.'” It’s an Old Testament reference – Lord God of hosts – cause it’s in quotation marks.But I’m getting a glimpse of your thesis emmany from other things you’ve said on other topics. I’m not going to second guess you or debate you about a name. It seems to me you want to compare Gabriel to us in terms of personality and based on the statement God is no respecter of persons. I think this refers to man and angels and others even up to and including the Lanonandek Sons. In the hierarchy of created beings in our universe, do you know if a Vorondadek Son has ever been found in contempt of universe government or gone into rebellion?Gabriel has his assignments. We have ours. We are on the lowest rung of the ladder and will not own our personality until we fuse. We are not equal and there is no comparison. Humans and the Bright and Morning Stars are completely different orders of being. Completely different.2:3.5 In any universe contest between actual levels of reality, the personality of the higher level will ultimately triumph over the personality of the lower level. This inevitable outcome of universe controversy is inherent in the fact that divinity of quality equals the degree of reality or actuality of any will creature. Undiluted evil, complete error, willful sin, and unmitigated iniquity are inherently and automatically suicidal. Such attitudes of cosmic unreality can survive in the universe only because of transient mercy-tolerance pending the action of the justice-determining and fairness-finding mechanisms of the universe tribunals of righteous adjudication.
Gabriel is the ideal of divinity in our universe. Looks to me like he has a very high degree of REALNESS and therefore is someone worthy of a massive amount of respect. And it also looks to me like he’s the guy who is going to ultimately triumph, that is, if you go by what’s written in 2:3.5.
32:2.6 . . . the Bright and Morning Star, the personification of this initial creative concept of identity and ideal of divinity.
Gabriel is created as the “ideal” of divinity yet this does not mean that he is that in actuality.
32:2.6 Presently, the physical plan of a universe is completed, and the Creator Son, in association with the Creative Spirit, projects his plan of life creation; whereupon does this representation of the Infinite Spirit begin her universe function as a distinct creative personality. When this first creative act is formulated and executed, there springs into being the Bright and Morning Star, the personification of this initial creative concept of identity and ideal of divinity. This is the chief executive of the universe, the personal associate of the Creator Son, one like him in all aspects of character, though markedly limited in the attributes of divinity.
Gabriel cannot be the “actual” ideal of divinity if he is markedly limited in the attributes of divinity. He can only be ideal in potential but not in reality as a creative concept of identity.
Gabriel is worthy of massive respect as we are worthy as well. We are of potential Finaliter status on Paradise.
And it also looks to me like he’s the guy who is going to ultimately triumph, that is, if you go by what’s written in 2:3.5.
And who will Gabriel triumph against? Will he take prisoners or kill the vanquished? Gabriel went to war against his enemies. Did he love his enemies as Michael would have him do? Do you kill the ones you love or the ones you hate? Would you do the killing yourself or pass the buck to higher ups? This would certainly wash your hands of the deed. And once Gabriel has rid the Universe of his enemies and they are no longer in their places, will he remember them as a brother or as a hated enemy? Will he remember them at all?
Mara wrote: Humans and the Bright and Morning Stars are completely different orders of being. Completely different.That’s exactly right. We are meant to become ascending Sons while the Bright and Morning Stars are descending Sons. Ascending Sons are mortal, descending Sons are immortal. Ascending Sons must evolve whereas descending Sons are divinely created.
Mara wrote: Humans and the Bright and Morning Stars are completely different orders of being. Completely different.
That’s exactly right. We are meant to become ascending Sons while the Bright and Morning Stars are descending Sons. Ascending Sons are mortal, descending Sons are immortal. Ascending Sons must evolve whereas descending Sons are divinely created.Completely different is what you both say. Well, are we as humans the children of a lesser god?
The Father Melchizedek is Gabriel’s first assistant who assumes authority when Gabriel is absent. Gabriel occupies himself with universe policies and presides over the tribunals and councils of Nebadon, while Father Melchizedek is concerned with practical procedures and presides over emergency commissions and advisory bodies. Gabriel supervises the judicial system of Nebadon. These courts are primarily concerned with creation, evolution, maintenance and ministry. They do not deal with matters of life and death. Those cases are referred to the tribunals of the super universe. (33:6.2; 33:7.2; 35:1.2)
The Father Melchizedek is Gabriel’s first assistant who assumes authority when Gabriel is absent. Gabriel occupies himself with universe policies and presides over the tribunals and councils of Nebadon, while Father Melchizedek is concerned with practical procedures and presides over emergency commissions and advisory bodies. Gabriel supervises the judicial system of Nebadon. These courts are primarily concerned with creation, evolution, maintenance and ministry. They do not deal with matters of life and death. Those cases are referred to the tribunals of the super universe. (33:6.2; 33:7.2; 35:1.2)
Yes. And what of it? A son is a son is a son is a son, by any other name.
The Most Highs of each constellation are Vorondadek Sons, selected by Michael and commissioned by Gabriel. In other words, Gabriel gives them the authority to function in the universe. The Vorondadek Sons, or Constellation Fathers, are an order of Sons created below the Melchizedeks. These Constellation Fathers rarely commit errors and none have ever entered into rebellion. They are completely loyal which is one reason they can rule in the kingdom of men.
43:3.1 The rulers of the constellations are of the Vorondadek order of local universe sonship. When commissioned to active duty in the universe as constellation rulers or otherwise, these Sons are known as the Most Highs since they embody the highest administrative wisdom, coupled with the most farseeing and intelligent loyalty, of all the orders of the Local Universe Sons of God. Their personal integrity and their group loyalty have never been questioned; no disaffection of the Vorondadek Sons has ever occurred in Nebadon.
These Constellation Fathers rarely commit errors and none have ever entered into rebellion. They are completely loyal which is one reason they can rule in the kingdom of men.
Yes. But not so with the Lanonandeks.
35:9:8 Of all the local universes in Orvonton, our universe has, with the exception of Henselon, lost the largest number of this order of Sons. On Uversa it is the consensus that we have had so much administrative trouble in Nebadon because our Sons of the Lanonandek order have been created with such a large degree of personal liberty in choosing and planning. I do not make this observation by way of criticism. The Creator of our universe has full authority and power to do this. It is the contention of our high rulers that, while such free-choosing Sons make excessive trouble in the earlier ages of the universe, when things are fully sifted and finally settled, the gains of higher loyalty and fuller volitional service on the part of these thoroughly tested Sons will far more than compensate for the confusion and tribulations of earlier times.Yes. But not so with the Lanonandeks.
The Life Carriers are an order of Sonship below the Lanonandeks and some of them also went into rebellion. It seems the cut-off point was the Lanonandek order of Sonship; every order below seemed to succumb, but I’m not entirely sure . . . need to read up.
Bonita wrote: The Life Carriers are an order of Sonship below the Lanonandeks and some of them also went into rebellion.32:3:6 The farther down the scale of life we go, the more difficult it becomes to locate, with the eye of faith, the invisible Father. The lower creatures — and sometimes even the higher personalities — find it difficult always to envisage the Universal Father in his Creator Sons. And so, pending the time of their spiritual exaltation, when perfection of development will enable them to see God in person, they grow weary in progression, entertain spiritual doubts, stumble into confusion, and thus isolate themselves from the progressive spiritual aims of their time and universe. In this way they lose the ability to see the Father when beholding the Creator Son. The surest safeguard for the creature throughout the long struggle to attain the Father, during this time when inherent conditions make such attainment impossible, is tenaciously to hold on to the truth-fact of the Father’s presence in his Sons. Literally and figuratively, spiritually and personally, the Father and the Sons are one. It is a fact: He who has seen a Creator Son has seen the Father.How bright is the Bright and Morning Star who is the first-born son of our Creator Son!
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