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Oh wait, I have another question. What about this teenage spiritual prodigy? Are you saying that she’s even more special than Jesus was as a human?
Good question.
When do you think he was assigned guardians? This quote states he was only five:
…On this day in February [2 BC] the direct and personal supervision of the Universe Rulers, as it was related to the integrity of the childlike incarnation of Michael, terminated. From that time on throughout the human unfolding of the incarnation, the guardianship of Jesus was destined to rest in the keeping of this indwelling Adjuster and the associated seraphic guardians, supplemented from time to time by the ministry of midway creatures assigned for the performance of certain definite duties in accordance with the instruction of their planetary superiors…. (1357.6) 123:2.2
Richard E Warren
Karyn, I’m sorry if you thought I said otherwise. I did not. Of course, any adult third circler or higher who has already passed on, is available to be called on. I’m not sure why you think I meant otherwise.
I’m quite certain that many of my dead relatives and former friends are not there yet. I have two friends from high school who killed themselves, one due to severe self-centeredness that drove him mad, and the other from a drug overdose (also selfish). I’m sure they won’t show up until after the next dispensation. I have a few alcoholic, truly nasty, SOB, uncles who terrorized the family, who probably won’t be there either. I can’t believe those friends or relatives made much progress toward breaking through the inertia of animal legacy which is necessary before entering the third circle.
My point is that not everyone is going to be there. I wonder if I’ll even get there until the next dispensation. The third circle is a rather high bar. I know the Urantia community is stuffed full with first circlers, self-appointed destiny reservists and self-delayed fusers, but that’s all a bunch of poppycock. Chances are that there are indeed many third circlers around, but not so many that would encompass all your deceased friends and relatives. There are also some first circlers on this world, according to TUB, but I haven’t met any of them, at least, none whom I recognize as living on such high morontial planes.
Rick, thanks for clearing that up. I suffer from an overactive reality attention disorder, so when I encounter things that don’t seem real, I get confused. I am under the impression that many, many people believe that in “heaven” they will run into everyone they know who has passed on, including their pets. I’m quite sure that is not so. If I’m lucky enough to go on the third day, I have no hope of running into some of my acquaintances who have passed on until after the next dispensation. And I’m hoping that I’m well out of the mansion world environment before my ex-husband gets there. Just joking . . . . no really.
The authors don’t equivocate about it, pets don’t resurrect. And we know some humans choose not to. I certainly don’t plan to write otherwise.
You’re saying your (insert expletive/question bloodline) ex, you expect to resurrect? Can’t be all bad, eh? :)
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Richard E Warren
Rick Warren wrote: When do you think he was assigned guardians? This quote states he was only five:Somehow I knew you were thinking like that. Seraphic guardians are assigned to everyone according to their psychic circle. Once Jesus entered the seventh psychic circle, he had seraphic guardians but they are group guardians. Recall that seraphic guardians are not destiny guardians. Seraphic guardians are group guardians; destiny guardians are personal guardians.
113:1.7 Human beings in the initial or seventh circle have one guardian angel with one company of assisting cherubim assigned to the watchcare and custody of one thousand mortals. In the sixth circle, a seraphic pair with one company of cherubim is assigned to guide these ascending mortals in groups of five hundred. When the fifth circle is attained, human beings are grouped in companies of approximately one hundred, and a pair of guardian seraphim with a group of cherubim is placed in charge. Upon attainment of the fourth circle, mortal beings are assembled in groups of ten, and again charge is given to a pair of seraphim, assisted by one company of cherubim.
113:1.8 When a mortal mind breaks through the inertia of animal legacy and attains the third circle of human intellectuality and acquired spirituality, a personal angel (in reality two) will henceforth be wholly and exclusively devoted to this ascending mortal. And thus these human souls, in addition to the ever-present and increasingly efficient indwelling Thought Adjusters, receive the undivided assistance of these personal guardians of destiny in all their efforts to finish the third circle, traverse the second, and attain the first.
113:2.1 Seraphim are not known as guardians of destiny until such time as they are assigned to the association of a human soul who has realized one or more of three achievements: has made a supreme decision to become Godlike, has entered the third circle, or has been mustered into one of the reserve corps of destiny.
112:3.6 For those who do not have personal seraphic guardians, the group custodians faithfully and efficiently perform the same service of identity safekeeping and personality resurrection. The seraphim are indispensable to the reassembly of personality.
Believe it or not, it is possible to have a personal guardian and not be in the third psychic circle which allows for resurrection on the third day. There are those with personal guardians who end up as sleeping survivors. I’m guessing they are either lower circle reservists or those who made a supreme decision but had not broken through their animal legacy to get to the third circle yet.
113:6.4 But angels minister to evolutionary creatures in many ways aside from the services of personal and group guardianship. Personal guardians whose subjects do not go immediately to the mansion worlds do not tarry there in idleness awaiting the dispensational roll calls of judgment; they are reassigned to numerous ministering missions throughout the universe.
You’re saying your (insert expletive/question bloodline) ex, you expect to resurrect? Can’t be all bad, eh? :)
Mercy is abundant, that’s all I can say. He may have a flicker I haven’t seen with my own eyes. I always hope for the best. I’m sure God loves him. God knows I tried and continue to try to do the same. It’s just going to take me a whole, whole, whole lot longer.
You’re saying your (insert expletive/question bloodline) ex, you expect to resurrect? Can’t be all bad, eh? :)
Mercy is abundant, that’s all I can say. He may have a flicker I haven’t seen with my own eyes. I always hope for the best. I’m sure God loves him. God knows I tried and continue to try to do the same. It’s just going to take me a whole, whole, whole lot longer.
Understood.
Richard E Warren
Rick Warren wrote: When do you think he was assigned guardians? This quote states he was only five:Somehow I knew you were thinking like that. Seraphic guardians are assigned to everyone according to their psychic circle. Once Jesus entered the seventh psychic circle, he had seraphic guardians but they are group guardians. Recall that seraphic guardians are not destiny guardians. Seraphic guardians are group guardians; destiny guardians are personal guardians.
You’re right, of course. Should have thought of that, where’s the WD40 for the mind?
Do you recall if there is a quote that states clearly when/where Jesus picked up his personal angels? And/or a quote that specifically says he made the third circle?
Believe it or not, it is possible to have a personal guardian and not be in the third psychic circle which allows for resurrection on the third day. There are those with personal guardians who end up as sleeping survivors. I’m guessing they are either lower circle reservists or those who made a supreme decision but had not broken through their animal legacy to get to the third circle yet.
113:6.4 But angels minister to evolutionary creatures in many ways aside from the services of personal and group guardianship. Personal guardians whose subjects do not go immediately to the mansion worlds do not tarry there in idleness awaiting the dispensational roll calls of judgment; they are reassigned to numerous ministering missions throughout the universe.
Interesting! Curious. Your guess is as good as any I might put up……..one brainers maybe? :)
Richard E Warren
Rick Warren wrote: Do you recall if there is a quote that states clearly when/where Jesus picked up his personal angels? And/or a quote that specifically says he made the third circle?Well, there’s this in regards to receiving his seraphic guardians when he entered the seventh circle:
123:2.2 On this day in February the direct and personal supervision of the Universe Rulers, as it was related to the integrity of the childlike incarnation of Michael, terminated. From that time on throughout the human unfolding of the incarnation, the guardianship of Jesus was destined to rest in the keeping of this indwelling Adjuster and the associated seraphic guardians, supplemented from time to time by the ministry of midway creatures assigned for the performance of certain definite duties in accordance with the instruction of their planetary superiors.
In regards to other circles, I don’t recall any specific mention. We know that at age 13 he had an episode where he was flooded with spiritual illumination and a celestial messenger arrived to tell him to be about his Father’s business. Is that the third circle? I’m not sure. We also know that from age 14-15 he achieved an ability to communicate with his Adjuster. Third circlers have some communication with their Adjusters. I don’t know if this means he was in the third circle or not, I’m just pointing it out as a possibility. A flood of spiritual illumination followed a few years later with Adjuster communion is a pretty good indication of something significant, I’d say.
124:6.15 On the day before the Passover Sabbath, flood tides of spiritual illumination swept through the mortal mind of Jesus and filled his human heart to overflowing with affectionate pity for the spiritually blind and morally ignorant multitudes assembled for the celebration of the ancient Passover commemoration.
126:0.1 Of all Jesus’ earth-life experiences, the fourteenth and fifteenth years were the most crucial. These two years, after he began to be self-conscious of divinity and destiny, and before he achieved a large measure of communication with his indwelling Adjuster, were the most trying of his eventful life on Urantia. It is this period of two years which should be called the great test, the real temptation. No human youth, in passing through the early confusions and adjustment problems of adolescence, ever experienced a more crucial testing than that which Jesus passed through during his transition from childhood to young manhood.
110:7.9 Human beings below the third and second circles of attainment rarely hear the Adjuster’s direct voice except in moments of supreme desire, in a supreme situation, and consequent upon a supreme decision.
However, we do know exactly when he attained the first circle, on Mount Hermon in mid-August to early September 25 AD.
134:7.6 The indwelling Thought Adjuster now led Jesus to forsake the dwelling places of men and betake himself up to Mount Hermon that he might finish his work of mastering his human mind and complete the task of effecting his full consecration to the remainder of his lifework on earth.
134:8.4 Jesus spent the last three weeks of August and the first three weeks of September on Mount Hermon. During these weeks he finished the mortal task of achieving the circles of mind-understanding and personality-control. Throughout this period of communion with his heavenly Father the indwelling Adjuster also completed the assigned services. The mortal goal of this earth creature was there attained. Only the final phase of mind and Adjuster attunement remained to be consummated.
Rick Warren wrote: Do you recall if there is a quote that states clearly when/where Jesus picked up his personal angels? And/or a quote that specifically says he made the third circle?Well, there’s this in regards to receiving his seraphic guardians when he entered the seventh circle:
123:2.2 On this day in February the direct and personal supervision of the Universe Rulers, as it was related to the integrity of the childlike incarnation of Michael, terminated. From that time on throughout the human unfolding of the incarnation, the guardianship of Jesus was destined to rest in the keeping of this indwelling Adjuster and the associated seraphic guardians, supplemented from time to time by the ministry of midway creatures assigned for the performance of certain definite duties in accordance with the instruction of their planetary superiors.
Yes, that’s the same quote we discussed above and you rightly said it had nothing to do with entering the 3 circle.
In regards to other circles, I don’t recall any specific mention. We know that at age 13 he had an episode where he was flooded with spiritual illumination and a celestial messenger arrived to tell him to be about his Father’s business. Is that the third circle? I’m not sure. We also know that from age 14-15 he achieved an ability to communicate with his Adjuster. Third circlers have some communication with their Adjusters. I don’t know if this means he was in the third circle or not, I’m just pointing it out as a possibility. A flood of spiritual illumination followed a few years later with Adjuster communion is a pretty good indication of something significant, I’d say.
124:6.15 On the day before the Passover Sabbath, flood tides of spiritual illumination swept through the mortal mind of Jesus and filled his human heart to overflowing with affectionate pity for the spiritually blind and morally ignorant multitudes assembled for the celebration of the ancient Passover commemoration. 126:0.1 Of all Jesus’ earth-life experiences, the fourteenth and fifteenth years were the most crucial. These two years, after he began to be self-conscious of divinity and destiny, and before he achieved a large measure of communication with his indwelling Adjuster, were the most trying of his eventful life on Urantia. It is this period of two years which should be called the great test, the real temptation. No human youth, in passing through the early confusions and adjustment problems of adolescence, ever experienced a more crucial testing than that which Jesus passed through during his transition from childhood to young manhood. 110:7.9 Human beings below the third and second circles of attainment rarely hear the Adjuster’s direct voice except in moments of supreme desire, in a supreme situation, and consequent upon a supreme decision.
However, we do know exactly when he attained the first circle, on Mount Hermon in mid-August to early September 25 AD.
134:7.6 The indwelling Thought Adjuster now led Jesus to forsake the dwelling places of men and betake himself up to Mount Hermon that he might finish his work of mastering his human mind and complete the task of effecting his full consecration to the remainder of his lifework on earth. 134:8.4 Jesus spent the last three weeks of August and the first three weeks of September on Mount Hermon. During these weeks he finished the mortal task of achieving the circles of mind-understanding and personality-control. Throughout this period of communion with his heavenly Father the indwelling Adjuster also completed the assigned services. The mortal goal of this earth creature was there attained. Only the final phase of mind and Adjuster attunement remained to be consummated.
Well, since there is fair indication he had guardians assigned in his early to mid-teens, an 18 year old woman who has faced certain death for two years, one who was reared in an excellent family, who is a quick learner and an enlightened prayer (prodigy was the wrong word) and caught up in deep life lessons, could reach the third circle, especially if she had achieved some form of communication with her Indweller. Too much of a stretch for ya?
I’ve seen reports of dying kids who were much, much more mature than their age, more mature than most old adults, values-wise. That doesn’t confirm 3rd circlehood of course, neither does it deny it. I grew much faster spiritually in Viet Nam because death was in my face everyday. What is valuable, and what is not, becomes quite clear in such circumstances. I didn’t have the spiritual background to capitalize on gains made in the war, but Kala’s friend did, having been raised in a family with great values. And death was not an absolute certainty for me as with this young woman.
We know age doesn’t really matter, values do. And it seems evident she would not be beating Jesus to the 3rd circle if she’s assigned guardians on her deathbed at 18. But if it is totally implausible to you, it might be to others as well. What do you say now that we are certain we don’t know when the Master received personal angels, but probably near the time he was told to be about God’s business? He was 13 when the Immanuel’s message came:
…there appeared to him an assigned messenger from Salvington, commissioned by Immanuel, who said: “The hour has come. It is time that you began to be about your Father’s business.” 124:6:15
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Richard E Warren
But if it is totally implausible to you, it might be to others as well.
This is fiction right? You can do anything you like with fiction. I don’t think it really matters. Every parent who loses a child wants to see them again and the sooner the better. It gives hope to think it is possible, and it might be. I’m no one to judge that kind of thing. My point in bringing it up is that the third circle, besides breaking through animal legacy, also indicates that an individual has made it a habit by repeatedly choosing the ideals of the higher mind and acting them out. The third circle doesn’t come with one moment of spiritual illumination, it requires the whole personality wholeheartedly deciding over and over again. At least that’s how I understand it.
I think you should go into more detail concerning her background in the story, develop the character more. I had a writing coach once who told me people want to know more about other people in novels. Character development is key. We used to sit for hours jotting down the interesting features and qualities of every character. She said to completely develop every person in your mind before writing them into the story. With that in mind, I would eventually tell some stories of her selflessness and love of others despite her personal suffering, or whatever you think made her a spiritual prodigy. Surely, she would be one of the youngest from earth on the mansion worlds. That makes her a celebrity of sorts and everyone will want to know her in depth.
One other thing I forgot to mention yesterday is this quote I bumped into while looking for something else:
47:1.4 On the first mansion world all survivors must pass the requirements of the parental commission from their native planets. The present Urantia commission consists of twelve parental couples, recently arrived, who have had mortal experience in rearing three or more children to the pubescent age. Service on this commission is rotational and is for only ten years as a rule. All who fail to satisfy these commissioners as to their parental experience must further qualify by service in the homes of the Material Sons on Jerusem or in part in the probationary nursery on the finaliters’ world.
This isn’t a judgment day or a time of “accounting”, but it is a commission on the first mansion world that determines if parenting requirements have been fulfilled. Are your resurrectees parents? Since I only had two kids, I’m sure I’ll have to serve in the probationary nursery. It will be interesting to learn how my parenting skills are perceived on high. Family is a universe priority, I think. Also, maybe your resurrectees will get tapped to sit on the commission. I’m curious to know why recent arrivals are on the commission, maybe you know. Certainly, developing that plot would open up a lot of information, especially when they talk to other parents, both on the commission and those who come before the commission. There’s lots of stuff to write about that can shed light on family values. You say your prodigy had an excellent family; I think that needs to be explored, don’t you? At least that’s something I would like to read about, fiction or otherwise.
But if it is totally implausible to you, it might be to others as well.
This is fiction right? You can do anything you like with fiction. I don’t think it really matters. Every parent who loses a child wants to see them again and the sooner the better. It gives hope to think it is possible, and it might be. I’m no one to judge that kind of thing. My point in bringing it up is that the third circle, besides breaking through animal legacy, also indicates that an individual has made it a habit by repeatedly choosing the ideals of the higher mind and acting them out. The third circle doesn’t come with one moment of spiritual illumination, it requires the whole personality wholeheartedly deciding over and over again. At least that’s how I understand it. I think you should go into more detail concerning her background in the story, develop the character more. I had a writing coach once who told me people want to know more about other people in novels. Character development is key. We used to sit for hours jotting down the interesting features and qualities of every character. She said to completely develop every person in your mind before writing them into the story. With that in mind, I would eventually tell some stories of her selflessness and love of others despite her personal suffering, or whatever you think made her a spiritual prodigy. Surely, she would be one of the youngest from earth on the mansion worlds. That makes her a celebrity of sorts and everyone will want to know her in depth. One other thing I forgot to mention yesterday is this quote I bumped into while looking for something else:
47:1.4 On the first mansion world all survivors must pass the requirements of the parental commission from their native planets. The present Urantia commission consists of twelve parental couples, recently arrived, who have had mortal experience in rearing three or more children to the pubescent age. Service on this commission is rotational and is for only ten years as a rule. All who fail to satisfy these commissioners as to their parental experience must further qualify by service in the homes of the Material Sons on Jerusem or in part in the probationary nursery on the finaliters’ world.
This isn’t a judgment day or a time of “accounting”, but it is a commission on the first mansion world that determines if parenting requirements have been fulfilled. Are your resurrectees parents? Since I only had two kids, I’m sure I’ll have to serve in the probationary nursery. It will be interesting to learn how my parenting skills are perceived on high. Family is a universe priority, I think. Also, maybe your resurrectees will get tapped to sit on the commission. I’m curious to know why recent arrivals are on the commission, maybe you know. Certainly, developing that plot would open up a lot of information, especially when they talk to other parents, both on the commission and those who come before the commission. There’s lots of stuff to write about that can shed light on family values. You say your prodigy had an excellent family; I think that needs to be explored, don’t you? At least that’s something I would like to read about, fiction or otherwise.
Yes, it’s fiction, but of course readers won’t keep reading if it feels fake. And yes, she and Kala can have talks that flesh out her remarkable life and extraordinary resurrection. I too was thinking of her maybe employed by/assigned to the Material sons. But it didn’t feel right to have them discuss a lot of details at the initial reception. Kala and Saro have a great of deal of discussing to do when there is time to visit with those who preceded them. Thanks much!
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Richard E Warren
Forum Friends,
Pages 8 & 9 are now ready for reading, commenting, critiquing: http://urantia-association.org/forums/topic/resurrection-hall/#post-22605
Thanks! Rick
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Richard E Warren
Forum Friends,
Pages 8 & 9 are now ready for reading, commenting, critiquing: http://urantia-association.org/forums/topic/resurrection-hall/#post-22605
Thanks! Rick
Rick, I have been following your narration as you have been presenting it and it would seem to have been timely presented in that my spouse passed away between your first and second installment. I must admit that while reading and using a little imagination as I read, some key words did promote specific memories, which I was able to relate to my own experiences. Although my wife was not a UB reader, I had kept her abreast of the many things which I noticed in its text, which I found most interesting, even one section which I read that seemed to have a direct correlation to her and myself. Nevertheless, even though your story, be it fictional to some degree, also may promote some association to others who may read it as well.
I’m looking forward to further pages.
Thanks for your presentation.
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Rick, I have been following your narration as you have been presenting it and it would seem to have been timely presented in that my spouse passed away between your first and second installment. I must admit that while reading and using a little imagination as I read, some key words did promote specific memories, which I was able to relate to my own experiences. Although my wife was not a UB reader, I had kept her abreast of the many things which I noticed in its text, which I found most interesting, even one section which I read that seemed to have a direct correlation to her and myself. Nevertheless, even though your story, be it fictional to some degree, also may promote some association to others who may read it as well. I’m looking forward to further pages. Thanks for your presentation.
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You’re most welcome. Interesting timing indeed. Hope it was an easy graduation.
It is my hope to stimulate imagination and ‘promote association’. Much appreciate the comment/feedback.
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Richard E Warren
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