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In my opinion, if there were no erroneous thinking carrying over, rehabilitation would hardly be necessary. That’s more indicative of the Light and Life eras. If we are to leave our prejudices and intolerance here, intensive Mansion world training regimes would not be needed.
It seems to me that we have different definitions of “erroneous thinking”. I’ll share my definition, for what it’s worth.
Our material minds have a segmented and circumscribed view of reality because they cannot fathom true origins and conclusions; they cannot think through all the problems of reality. Therefore, our material minds invent a structure with which to think. That structure is erroneous, meaning it only has a limited useful function.
115:1.1 Partial, incomplete, and evolving intellects would be helpless in the master universe, would be unable to form the first rational thought pattern, were it not for the innate ability of all mind, high or low, to form a universe frame in which to think. If mind cannot fathom conclusions, if it cannot penetrate to true origins, then will such mind unfailingly postulate conclusions and invent origins that it may have a means of logical thought within the frame of these mind-created postulates. And while such universe frames for creature thought are indispensable to rational intellectual operations, they are, without exception, erroneous to a greater or lesser degree.
For instance, the belief in original sin which makes man forever in debt to a judgmental God is an erroneous thought structure. It carries with it many supportive thoughts which keep the structure from toppling over. The life of the individual with this universe thought-framework would include many decisions based upon these erroneous thoughts. Not all of those decisions have lasting value even though they seem to be of the highest value within such a thought structure. For example:
A man sacrifices his son to appease God and atone for the problems resultant from original sin. He also mistreats and abuses his wife whom he cannot trust due to the fact that women are the reason for original sin. These thoughts fit nicely into what is a completely erroneous thought structure. They are a major contribution to this man’s conscience and sense of morality. When this man goes to the mansion world he will not carry with him the erroneous thought structure which dictated that he kill his son and abuse his wife. During his life, these actions were considered virtuous. When he meets his son and wife on the mansion worlds, memory of the relationship will persist along with whatever of true value existed within the relationships. However, the thinking that led to sacrifice and abuse will not persist.
I am sure that there will be those on the mansion worlds who will help this man understand why he chose to murder his son and abuse his wife, but I do not know how they do that. Perhaps images from the events which were recorded? I don’t know. But I am certain that the man will, at some point, laugh at himself for having exercised such ridiculous ideas. I think this is where the reversion angels come in.
That being said, is there anything of survival value in the act of sacrificing your son to appease God? I think there might be value in the act of faith. I think there is some value in the willingness to give up something treasured, if the motive was good. I also think the desire to please God is something of value, so that would linger in the memory. But each case would be individualized, between man and God, based on motives and intentions, not necessarily on the erroneous thinking involved.
Thoughts may lead us Godward, but only spiritized thoughts. Erroneous thoughts cannot get us there unless they result in mistakes which then lead to wisdom and a change in thinking. And . . . that there is another discussion. Do we become aware of the mistakes of our former life while traversing the mansion worlds? I think so, but I don’t think we carry memories of those mistakes unless they are part of the experience of triumph over evil (erroneous thinking) which result in a change in one’s thought framework. This is growth, the transference of dominance to Adjustered-thinking. I do think memories like that survive.
In my opinion, if there were no erroneous thinking carrying over, rehabilitation would hardly be necessary. That’s more indicative of the Light and Life eras. If we are to leave our prejudices and intolerance here, intensive Mansion world training regimes would not be needed.
It seems to me that we have different definitions of “erroneous thinking”. I’ll share my definition, for what it’s worth. Our material minds have a segmented and circumscribed view of reality because they cannot fathom true origins and conclusions; they cannot think through all the problems of reality. Therefore, our material minds invent a structure with which to think. That structure is erroneous, meaning it only has a limited useful function.
115:1.1 Partial, incomplete, and evolving intellects would be helpless in the master universe, would be unable to form the first rational thought pattern, were it not for the innate ability of all mind, high or low, to form a universe frame in which to think. If mind cannot fathom conclusions, if it cannot penetrate to true origins, then will such mind unfailingly postulate conclusions and invent origins that it may have a means of logical thought within the frame of these mind-created postulates. And while such universe frames for creature thought are indispensable to rational intellectual operations, they are, without exception, erroneous to a greater or lesser degree.
For instance, the belief in original sin which makes man forever in debt to a judgmental God is an erroneous thought structure. It carries with it many supportive thoughts which keep the structure from toppling over. The life of the individual with this universe thought-framework would include many decisions based upon these erroneous thoughts. Not all of those decisions have lasting value even though they seem to be of the highest value within such a thought structure. For example: A man sacrifices his son to appease God and atone for the problems resultant from original sin. He also mistreats and abuses his wife whom he cannot trust due to the fact that women are the reason for original sin. These thoughts fit nicely into what is a completely erroneous thought structure. They are a major contribution to this man’s conscience and sense of morality. When this man goes to the mansion world he will not carry with him the erroneous thought structure which dictated that he kill his son and abuse his wife. During his life, these actions were considered virtuous. When he meets his son and wife on the mansion worlds, memory of the relationship will persist along with whatever of true value existed within the relationships. However, the thinking that led to sacrifice and abuse will not persist. I am sure that there will be those on the mansion worlds who will help this man understand why he chose to murder his son and abuse his wife, but I do not know how they do that. Perhaps images from the events which were recorded? I don’t know. But I am certain that the man will, at some point, laugh at himself for having exercised such ridiculous ideas. I think this is where the reversion angels come in. That being said, is there anything of survival value in the act of sacrificing your son to appease God? I think there might be value in the act of faith. I think there is some value in the willingness to give up something treasured, if the motive was good. I also think the desire to please God is something of value, so that would linger in the memory. But each case would be individualized, between man and God, based on motives and intentions, not necessarily on the erroneous thinking involved. Thoughts may lead us Godward, but only spiritized thoughts. Erroneous thoughts cannot get us there unless they result in mistakes which then lead to wisdom and a change in thinking. And . . . that there is another discussion. Do we become aware of the mistakes of our former life while traversing the mansion worlds? I think so, but I don’t think we carry memories of those mistakes unless they are part of the experience of triumph over evil (erroneous thinking) which result in a change in one’s thought framework. This is growth, the transference of dominance to Adjustered-thinking. I do think memories like that survive.
Ok, good points, but how can that work on judgment day? Surprise recordings? Will we go into the chamber with little to no knowledge of our former lives or our mistakes, blunders and sins? How can we be judged for a life whose memory has been deleted? And when exactly are we judged? The day we arrive? Sometime, somewhere on Mansonia? So much latitude for speculation here. And of course, admittedly, fiction is but enlightened (hopefully) speculation. For which you are helping.
Once again, we can use the same quote to support our interpretation:
…Partial, incomplete, and evolving intellects would be helpless in the master universe, would be unable to form the first rational thought pattern, were it not for the innate ability of all mind, high or low, to form a universe frame in which to think…. 115:1.1
Resurrectees have to have a frame of being and reference, unless they are to be like new born earthlings, blank slate mind, no soul, no God fragment indwelling.
***
Richard E Warren
Rick Warren wrote: Ok, good points, but how can that work on judgment day? Surprise recordings?No. I think we will naturally have many questions. When we seek answers, there will be those available to help. There are so many different kinds of recorders and teachers, it boggles the mind how much help we have.
Rick Warren wrote: Will we go into the chamber with little to no knowledge of our former lives or our mistakes, blunders and sins?
I already explained this, but I’ll try again, because obviously I’m not getting my thoughts across. Only the memory of corrected mistakes and blunders survive if the correction results in spiritual growth. Our sins do not survive because they are unreal. Sin is not a reality. Memory of sinning is not useful. Memory of the realization of having been forgiven will survive.
When we go to the resurrection chamber, we have several parts that must be reconstructed. Personality is one of them, and no one knows where it is between death and resurrection, but we do know that the archangels are in charge of preserving personality constitution. Another part is the soul. The soul is the survivable character matrix built up over the life in the flesh. Alone, the soul is not minded and has no memory. Memory is dependent upon the Adjuster who activates the character of the personality in the soul. The new morontia mind structure provides the arena in which the personality unifies its parts. Then there is a new morontia body made to reflect the character (soul) of the personality.
112:5.15 During the transit of surviving mortals from the world of origin to the mansion worlds, whether they experience personality reassembly on the third period or ascend at the time of a group resurrection, the record of personality constitution is faithfully preserved by the archangels on their worlds of special activities. These beings are not the custodians of personality (as the guardian seraphim are of the soul), but it is nonetheless true that every identifiable factor of personality is effectually safeguarded in the custody of these dependable trustees of mortal survival. As to the exact whereabouts of mortal personality during the time intervening between death and survival, we do not know.
Now the question seems to be, what sort of Adjuster memories activates the new morontia character (soul) of the personality? [Incidentally, the material character does not survive since it originates from physical genes.] Do you really think that the Adjuster is going to cherish and protect memories of murder and abuse, in the case of the primitive man who believes in original sin? No, of course not. Do you think your own Adjuster will bring along memories of your own really bad ideas, whatever they are? I am quite sure that those emotions of hate I had for my ex-husband with thoughts of kicking his butt from here to kingdom come, will not survive with my Adjuster. I can hardly remember them now, why would the Adjuster want to keep them for eternity if I don’t? Instead, my Adjuster will hold onto the awakening I had which allowed me to forgive him and forget the pain he caused me. Those little moments of light and understanding which resulted in changed thinking, and in turn, changed behavior, will last for eternity. My, and my Adjuster’s, experience of triumph over evil will leave a trail of actualized reality that cannot be destroyed. We did it! We will remember it. The crap that was going on in my head at the time that made me want to see him breathe his last breath is long gone. Why would I remember such stuff. When TUB says that our goal is to destroy evil with good, it really means destroy it. How can you bring something that is destroyed with you into eternity? You can’t. You can bring the experience of growth and progress with you though.
Rick Warren wrote: How can we be judged for a life whose memory has been deleted?
Rick, I don’t think you have a clear idea of what happens on “Judgment Day”. We are only judged on what is present in the soul, not what failed to get there. How can you measure something that doesn’t exist? Evil doesn’t exist as an actual. I don’t know how to explain this, but I’ll try to stumble through this.
Do you remember anything about the ancient Egyptian’s beliefs about the afterlife? If you recall, there is a ceremony called “Weighing of the Heart”. The heart was believed to be the center of thought and emotion. It was removed and placed in a special jar after death. During this ceremony, it was weighed against the principle of truth represented as a feather. If when the heart was placed on the scale of justice it balanced with the feather it would be returned to the deceased for eternal life, never to be removed again. They believed that wrongdoing and evil living would weigh the heart down and make it sink, not unlike the TUB quote which explains how a mind dedicated to material reality becomes more responsive to material gravity (becomes “heavier,” more material).
A light as a feather soul would be a soul responsive to spirit gravity. TUB’s idea of judgment day has many similarities. All that is in the soul is responsive to spiritual gravity. The soul, or what is in it, is guaranteed to survive in some form or another. The soul is not judged by its evil, its heaviness or response to material gravity. In fact, the soul is not really judged at all, it’s more like the weighing ceremony. Is there anything of value present or not? If not, the Adjuster doesn’t show up, and he doesn’t show up because there’s nothing there to show up for.
Rick Warren wrote: And when exactly are we judged? The day we arrive? Sometime, somewhere on Mansonia?
First of all, this is somewhat determined by circle status. Third circlers have a “judgment” immediately after death. Judgment in this case is between the destiny guardian and the Adjuster, then, when confirmed by the Universal Censors, the matter is sent up to the Ancients of Days who make the decree of advanced standing.
112.4.5 If, when death overtakes you, you have attained the third circle or a higher realm and therefore have had assigned to you a personal guardian of destiny, and if the final transcript of the summary of survival character submitted by the Adjuster is unconditionally certified by the destiny guardian — if both seraphim and Adjuster essentially agree in every item of their life records and recommendations — if the Universal Censors and their reflective associates on Uversa confirm this data and do so without equivocation or reservation, in that event the Ancients of Days flash forth the mandate of advanced standing over the communication circuits to Salvington, and, thus released, the tribunals of the Sovereign of Nebadon will decree the immediate passage of the surviving soul to the resurrection halls of the mansion worlds.
All others must wait for a dispensation and all such “judgments” take place on mansion worlds, and I believe it is number one since we all have to go there first. The angels are required to be there, but the Adjuster does not have to show up. If the Adjuster makes no answer, then there is no survival and the gig is up. The reason is because there has to be something of value that survives in order for the Adjuster to take up residence. So, it’s a matter of whether there is something of value present or nothing of value, or “nothing”. It’s not really a detailed judgment of all the things we’ve done in our lives, which you say requires memories, but rather what we have built up in our lives that has lasting value. There has to be something in the soul which would indicate a desire to do God’s will, regardless of how feeble. If there’s nothing there, there’s nothing there. That’s the “judgement;” it’s a discernment of the presence of something . . . anything resembling a desire for God’s will. If there is a desire, even an minuscule one, God shows up. That’s what he does! And that’s all you need on “Judgment Day”, for God to show up in some form, Adjuster, Son or Spirit.
113:6.7 And even so, when a planetary age ends, when those in the lower circles of mortal achievement are forgathered, it is their group guardians who reassemble them in the resurrection halls of the mansion spheres, even as your record tells: “And he shall send his angels with a great voice and shall gather together his elect from one end of the realm to another.”
113:6.8 The technique of justice demands that personal or group guardians shall respond to the dispensational roll call in behalf of all nonsurviving personalities. The Adjusters of such nonsurvivors do not return, and when the rolls are called, the seraphim respond, but the Adjusters make no answer. This constitutes the “resurrection of the unjust,” in reality the formal recognition of the cessation of creature existence. This roll call of justice always immediately follows the roll call of mercy, the resurrection of the sleeping survivors. But these are matters which are of concern to none but the supreme and all-knowing Judges of survival values. Such problems of adjudication do not really concern us.
113:6.9 Group guardians may serve on a planet age after age and eventually become custodians of the slumbering souls of thousands upon thousands of sleeping survivors. They can so serve on many different worlds in a given system since the resurrection response occurs on the mansion worlds.
49.6.7 Thus are the sleeping survivors of a planetary age repersonalized in the dispensational roll calls. But with regard to the nonsalvable personalities of a realm, no immortal spirit is present to function with the group guardians of destiny, and this constitutes cessation of creature existence. While some of your records have pictured these events as taking place on the planets of mortal death, they all really occur on the mansion worlds.
47:3.5 Regardless of the technique which may be employed on the individual worlds of time in connection with special or dispensational resurrections, the real and conscious reassembly of actual and complete personality takes place in the resurrection halls of mansonia number one. Throughout all eternity you will recall the profound memory impressions of your first witnessing of these resurrection mornings.
47:3.10 If you are not to be detained on mansion world number one, at the end of ten days you will enter the translation sleep and proceed to world number two, and every ten days thereafter you will thus advance until you arrive on the world of your assignment.
Rick Warren wrote: Resurrectees have to have a frame of being and reference, unless they are to be like new born earthlings, blank slate mind, no soul, no God fragment indwelling.
Resurrectees have a morontia level of the cosmic mind to build a new framework with. They have spiritually significant memories from the Adjuster, and they also have a self-consciousness due to the presence of personality. Personality additionally comes with a sense of sequentiality and the ability to recognize and respond to other personalities. Then there is the soul, which is the transformed character of the personality built up over a lifetime. Character is something worth studying if you’re going to write this story. Character is a personality’s nature, its own distinctive quality of expression. Soul character is an indicator of strength of conviction to universe values. Obviously, if you are strongly motivated to find God and be like him, it doesn’t matter where you are, here or there, you will respond to that urge and unify your new life around that purpose. You would immediately begin building new thought structures, or frameworks, with that goal in mind. The framework from the material mind would not be functional on the morontia worlds having been mere scaffolding. The new mind for the new world is built with Adjustered-memories. The Adjuster only brings memories of worth-while experiences with him. The erroneous stuff “returns to dust” along with that temporary scaffolding left behind.
112:5.22 The Thought Adjuster will recall and rehearse for you only those memories and experiences which are a part of, and essential to, your universe career. If the Adjuster has been a partner in the evolution of aught in the human mind, then will these worth-while experiences survive in the eternal consciousness of the Adjuster. But much of your past life and its memories, having neither spiritual meaning nor morontia value, will perish with the material brain; much of material experience will pass away as onetime scaffolding which, having bridged you over to the morontia level, no longer serves a purpose in the universe. But personality and the relationships between personalities are never scaffolding; mortal memory of personality relationships has cosmic value and will persist. On the mansion worlds you will know and be known, and more, you will remember, and be remembered by, your onetime associates in the short but intriguing life on Urantia.Rick Warren wrote: Ok, good points, but how can that work on judgment day? Surprise recordings?No. I think we will naturally have many questions. When we seek answers, there will be those available to help. There are so many different kinds of recorders and teachers, it boggles the mind how much help we have.
Rick Warren wrote: Will we go into the chamber with little to no knowledge of our former lives or our mistakes, blunders and sins?
I already explained this, but I’ll try again, because obviously I’m not getting my thoughts across. Only the memory of corrected mistakes and blunders survive if the correction results in spiritual growth.
Which could mean most of my life. That’s my point.
Our sins do not survive because they are unreal. Sin is not a reality. Memory of sinning is not useful. Memory of the realization of having been forgiven will survive.
Agreed. Also errors that led to wisdom, change, spiritual growth. Those happen everyday and more so as the being advances. See what I’m getting at? No, we won’t recall how many times we brushed our teeth, ate a meal, where the hardware store is. No doubt about that. Otherwise, seems like our lives are an intricate web of growth fraught with spiritual value, depending on the person’s motives of course. And no spiritual values will be expressed without interaction, relationships. Therefore must relationships be enduring across transitions…know and be known.
When we go to the resurrection chamber, we have several parts that must be reconstructed. Personality is one of them, and no one knows where it is between death and resurrection, but we do know that the archangels are in charge of preserving personality constitution. Another part is the soul. The soul is the survivable character matrix built up over the life in the flesh. Alone, the soul is not minded and has no memory. Memory is dependent upon the Adjuster who activates the character of the personality in the soul. The new morontia mind structure provides the arena in which the personality unifies its parts. Then there is a new morontia body made to reflect the character (soul) of the personality.
112:5.15 During the transit of surviving mortals from the world of origin to the mansion worlds, whether they experience personality reassembly on the third period or ascend at the time of a group resurrection, the record of personality constitution is faithfully preserved by the archangels on their worlds of special activities. These beings are not the custodians of personality (as the guardian seraphim are of the soul), but it is nonetheless true that every identifiable factor of personality is effectually safeguarded in the custody of these dependable trustees of mortal survival. As to the exact whereabouts of mortal personality during the time intervening between death and survival, we do not know.
Now the question seems to be, what sort of Adjuster memories activates the new morontia character (soul) of the personality? [Incidentally, the material character does not survive since it originates from physical genes.] Do you really think that the Adjuster is going to cherish and protect memories of murder and abuse, in the case of the primitive man who believes in original sin? No, of course not. Do you think your own Adjuster will bring along memories of your own really bad ideas, whatever they are? I am quite sure that those emotions of hate I had for my ex-husband with thoughts of kicking his butt from here to kingdom come, will not survive with my Adjuster. I can hardly remember them now, why would the Adjuster want to keep them for eternity if I don’t? Instead, my Adjuster will hold onto the awakening I had which allowed me to forgive him and forget the pain he caused me. Those little moments of light and understanding which resulted in changed thinking, and in turn, changed behavior, will last for eternity. My, and my Adjuster’s, experience of triumph over evil will leave a trail of actualized reality that cannot be destroyed. We did it! We will remember it. The crap that was going on in my head at the time that made me want to see him breathe his last breath is long gone. Why would I remember such stuff. When TUB says that our goal is to destroy evil with good, it really means destroy it. How can you bring something that is destroyed with you into eternity? You can’t. You can bring the experience of growth and progress with you though.
We’re kind of agreeing, the trash gets thrown out. But as I said above, just about everyday something of spiritual value happens, unless a person is shutdown, no interactions, or maybe disadjustered. So for some there is a lot of memory available on resurrection morn, depends on one’s life. That’s why the characters are only gradually remembering in the redux version.
Rick Warren wrote: How can we be judged for a life whose memory has been deleted?
Rick, I don’t think you have a clear idea of what happens on “Judgment Day”. We are only judged on what is present in the soul, not what failed to get there. How can you measure something that doesn’t exist? Evil doesn’t exist as an actual. I don’t know how to explain this, but I’ll try to stumble through this. Do you remember anything about the ancient Egyptian’s beliefs about the afterlife? If you recall, there is a ceremony called “Weighing of the Heart”. The heart was believed to be the center of thought and emotion. It was removed and placed in a special jar after death. During this ceremony, it was weighed against the principle of truth represented as a feather. If when the heart was placed on the scale of justice it balanced with the feather it would be returned to the deceased for eternal life, never to be removed again. They believed that wrongdoing and evil living would weigh the heart down and make it sink, not unlike the TUB quote which explains how a mind dedicated to material reality becomes more responsive to material gravity (becomes “heavier,” more material). A light as a feather soul would be a soul responsive to spirit gravity. TUB’s idea of judgment day has many similarities. All that is in the soul is responsive to spiritual gravity. The soul, or what is in it, is guaranteed to survive in some form or another. The soul is not judged by its evil, its heaviness or response to material gravity. In fact, the soul is not really judged at all, it’s more like the weighing ceremony. Is there anything of value present or not? If not, the Adjuster doesn’t show up, and he doesn’t show up because there’s nothing there to show up for.
Glad you fleshed that out. Wasn’t sure how to write that scene. Makes it much easier. Thanks.
Will reply to the rest of your post shortly.
***
Richard E Warren
Rick, are you really making spiritually significant decisions every day, significant enough that you will remember every single one through eternity? I’m wondering how you’re defining a spiritually significant decision, a decision that leaves a trail of actualized potential in the universe. Could you give me an example of something you decided to do today that the universe would be interested in capturing for eternity, something that the Supreme has made part of his evolution? I’m curious to know your view on that.
Rick Warren wrote: And when exactly are we judged? The day we arrive? Sometime, somewhere on Mansonia?
First of all, this is somewhat determined by circle status. Third circlers have a “judgment” immediately after death. Judgment in this case is between the destiny guardian and the Adjuster, then, when confirmed by the Universal Censors, the matter is sent up to the Ancients of Days who make the decree of advanced standing.
112.4.5 If, when death overtakes you, you have attained the third circle or a higher realm and therefore have had assigned to you a personal guardian of destiny, and if the final transcript of the summary of survival character submitted by the Adjuster is unconditionally certified by the destiny guardian — if both seraphim and Adjuster essentially agree in every item of their life records and recommendations — if the Universal Censors and their reflective associates on Uversa confirm this data and do so without equivocation or reservation, in that event the Ancients of Days flash forth the mandate of advanced standing over the communication circuits to Salvington, and, thus released, the tribunals of the Sovereign of Nebadon will decree the immediate passage of the surviving soul to the resurrection halls of the mansion worlds.
Thanks for that quote. This is the three day passage my characters took. So…judgment has already happened in their case.
All others must wait for a dispensation and all such “judgments” take place on mansion worlds, and I believe it is number one since we all have to go there first. The angels are required to be there, but the Adjuster does not have to show up. If the Adjuster makes no answer, then there is no survival and the gig is up. The reason is because there has to be something of value that survives in order for the Adjuster to take up residence. So, it’s a matter of whether there is something of value present or nothing of value, or “nothing”. It’s not really a detailed judgment of all the things we’ve done in our lives, which you say requires memories, but rather what we have built up in our lives that has lasting value. There has to be something in the soul which would indicate a desire to do God’s will, regardless of how feeble. If there’s nothing there, there’s nothing there. That’s the “judgement;” it’s a discernment of the presence of something . . . anything resembling a desire for God’s will. If there is a desire, even an minuscule one, God shows up. That’s what he does! And that’s all you need on “Judgment Day”, for God to show up in some form, Adjuster, Son or Spirit.
So you don’t think those 1st and 2nd circlers have to appear before a judgment council? Give an accounting?
113:6.7 And even so, when a planetary age ends, when those in the lower circles of mortal achievement are forgathered, it is their group guardians who reassemble them in the resurrection halls of the mansion spheres, even as your record tells: “And he shall send his angels with a great voice and shall gather together his elect from one end of the realm to another.”
113:6.8 The technique of justice demands that personal or group guardians shall respond to the dispensational roll call in behalf of all nonsurviving personalities. The Adjusters of such nonsurvivors do not return, and when the rolls are called, the seraphim respond, but the Adjusters make no answer. This constitutes the “resurrection of the unjust,” in reality the formal recognition of the cessation of creature existence. This roll call of justice always immediately follows the roll call of mercy, the resurrection of the sleeping survivors. But these are matters which are of concern to none but the supreme and all-knowing Judges of survival values. Such problems of adjudication do not really concern us.
Still not seeing when exactly this happens to lower circlers, you?
113:6.9 Group guardians may serve on a planet age after age and eventually become custodians of the slumbering souls of thousands upon thousands of sleeping survivors. They can so serve on many different worlds in a given system since the resurrection response occurs on the mansion worlds.
49.6.7 Thus are the sleeping survivors of a planetary age repersonalized in the dispensational roll calls. But with regard to the nonsalvable personalities of a realm, no immortal spirit is present to function with the group guardians of destiny, and this constitutes cessation of creature existence. While some of your records have pictured these events as taking place on the planets of mortal death, they all really occur on the mansion worlds.
47:3.5 Regardless of the technique which may be employed on the individual worlds of time in connection with special or dispensational resurrections, the real and conscious reassembly of actual and complete personality takes place in the resurrection halls of mansonia number one. Throughout all eternity you will recall the profound memory impressions of your first witnessing of these resurrection mornings.
Yes!
47:3.10 If you are not to be detained on mansion world number one, at the end of ten days you will enter the translation sleep and proceed to world number two, and every ten days thereafter you will thus advance until you arrive on the world of your assignment.
On what mansion world would you place third circlers?
Rick Warren wrote: Resurrectees have to have a frame of being and reference, unless they are to be like new born earthlings, blank slate mind, no soul, no God fragment indwelling.
Resurrectees have a morontia level of the cosmic mind to build a new framework with. They have spiritually significant memories from the Adjuster, and they also have a self-consciousness due to the presence of personality. Personality additionally comes with a sense of sequentiality and the ability to recognize and respond to other personalities. Then there is the soul, which is the transformed character of the personality built up over a lifetime. Character is something worth studying if you’re going to write this story. Character is a personality’s nature, its own distinctive quality of expression. Soul character is an indicator of strength of conviction to universe values. Obviously, if you are strongly motivated to find God and be like him, it doesn’t matter where you are, here or there, you will respond to that urge and unify your new life around that purpose. You would immediately begin building new thought structures, or frameworks, with that goal in mind. The framework from the material mind would not be functional on the morontia worlds having been mere scaffolding. The new mind for the new world is built with Adjustered-memories. The Adjuster only brings memories of worth-while experiences with him. The erroneous stuff “returns to dust” along with that temporary scaffolding left behind.
Agree.
112:5.22 The Thought Adjuster will recall and rehearse for you only those memories and experiences which are a part of, and essential to, your universe career. If the Adjuster has been a partner in the evolution of aught in the human mind, then will these worth-while experiences survive in the eternal consciousness of the Adjuster. But much of your past life and its memories, having neither spiritual meaning nor morontia value, will perish with the material brain; much of material experience will pass away as onetime scaffolding which, having bridged you over to the morontia level, no longer serves a purpose in the universe. But personality and the relationships between personalities are never scaffolding; mortal memory of personality relationships has cosmic value and will persist. On the mansion worlds you will know and be known, and more, you will remember, and be remembered by, your onetime associates in the short but intriguing life on Urantia.So, we return to the disagreement, what is ‘essential’ to our universe career?***Richard E Warren
Rick, are you really making spiritually significant decisions every day, significant enough that you will remember every single one through eternity? I’m wondering how you’re defining a spiritually significant decision, a decision that leaves a trail of actualized potential in the universe. Could you give me an example of something you decided to do today that the universe would be interested in capturing for eternity, something that the Supreme has made part of his evolution? I’m curious to know your view on that.
One thing was the decision to worship. Each worship session is different, produces a another slightly expanded view of God. That qualify?
.
Richard E Warren
Rick Warren wrote: So you don’t think those 1st and 2nd circlers have to appear before a judgment council? Give an accounting?Where does it say that we have to stand before a judgment council upon death? You must be thinking of those events during the ascension career when we are at odds with someone, have some friction or clash of personalities. Judgment upon death is a discernment of whether or not there is something of survival value present or not. We don’t give an accounting of ourselves, our angels and our Adjuster do that for us (because we are not conscious at the time and all our parts are in different places).
And even after survival, I think it would be kind of silly for a judgment counsel to drill us on why we made this decision or that decision when the specific memories of those decisions are long gone. Furthermore, the Adjuster already knows why we do what we do, and why we did what we did, as do the angels. In fact, the whole universe already knows everything about us. It’s all recorded for posterity. A judgement counsel would already have all the information they need, so giving a personal accounting of a prior life to a judgment council makes no sense to me at all. Such a practice would negate the purpose of the roll call of mercy.
108:6.6 And as you are the human parent, so is the Adjuster the divine parent of the real you, your higher and advancing self, your better morontial and future spiritual self. And it is this evolving morontial soul that the judges and censors discern when they decree your survival and pass you upward to new worlds and never-ending existence in eternal liaison with your faithful partner – God, the Adjuster.
113:6.8 The technique of justice demands that personal or group guardians shall respond to the dispensational roll call in behalf of all nonsurviving personalities. The Adjusters of such nonsurvivors do not return, and when the rolls are called, the seraphim respond, but the Adjusters make no answer. This constitutes the “resurrection of the unjust,” in reality the formal recognition of the cessation of creature existence. This roll call of justice always immediately follows the roll call of mercy, the resurrection of the sleeping survivors. But these are matters which are of concern to none but the supreme and all-knowing Judges of survival values. Such problems of adjudication do not really concern us.
Rick Warren wrote: Still not seeing when exactly this happens to lower circlers, you?Yeah. It says in TUB that resurrection roll calls are at the end of a dispensation. There are some special roll calls for distinguished survivors, like Adam and Eve, but that has nothing to do with the “lower circlers” seven through four, the sleeping survivors and non-survivors.
Rick Warren wrote: On what mansion world would you place third circlers?Good question. I have no idea. I would think that it’s an individual thing since the psychic circles are very individual. I think even third circlers might have some deficiencies to make up for on mansion world one. It all depends on the circumstances and experiences of their life on earth whether or not they have to make up for deficiencies.
47:3.8 Almost the entire experience of mansion world number one pertains to deficiency ministry. Survivors arriving on this first of the detention spheres present so many and such varied defects of creature character and deficiencies of mortal experience that the major activities of the realm are occupied with the correction and cure of these manifold legacies of the life in the flesh on the material evolutionary worlds of time and space.
Rick Warren wrote: So, we return to the disagreement, what is ‘essential’ to our universe career?I wasn’t aware that we had a disagreement over what is essential to our universe career. Isn’t our disagreement over the survival of erroneous thinking? I say it doesn’t survive. But the question is a valid one. What is essential to our universe career? I would say the desire to do God’s will. That’s about the crux of it. After all, it is not so much what we are but we desire to become that really matters, it’s all about the struggle between the the material self and the divine self, the mastery of self according to God’s will.
50:6.3 The initial life of the mortal races is always attended by struggle. Effort and decision are an essential part of the acquirement of survival values.
110:3.2 The success of your Adjuster in the enterprise of piloting you through the mortal life and bringing about your survival depends not so much on the theories of your beliefs as upon your decisions, determinations, and steadfast faith. All these movements of personality growth become powerful influences aiding in your advancement because they help you to co-operate with the Adjuster; they assist you in ceasing to resist. Thought Adjusters succeed or apparently fail in their terrestrial undertakings just in so far as mortals succeed or fail to co-operate with the scheme whereby they are to be advanced along the ascending path of perfection attainment. The secret of survival is wrapped up in the supreme human desire to be Godlike and in the associated willingness to do and be any and all things which are essentialto the final attainment of that overmastering desire.
111:1.5 Mortal mind is a temporary intellect system loaned to human beings for use during a material lifetime, and as they use this mind, they are either accepting or rejecting the potential of eternal existence. Mind is about all you have of universe reality that is subject to your will, and the soul — the morontia self — will faithfully portray the harvest of the temporal decisions which the mortal self is making. Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious. And it is not so much what mind comprehends as what mind desires to comprehend that insures survival; it is not so much what mind is like as what mind is striving to be like that constitutes spirit identification. It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity.
147:5.7 That same evening Jesus made the long-to-be-remembered address to the apostles regarding the relative value of status with God and progress in the eternal ascent to Paradise. Said Jesus: “My children, if there exists a true and living connection between the child and the Father, the child is certain to progress continuously toward the Father’s ideals. True, the child may at first make slow progress, but the progress is none the less sure. The important thing is not the rapidity of your progress but rather its certainty. Your actual achievement is not so important as the fact that the direction of your progress is Godward. What you are becoming day by day is of infinitely more importance than what you are today.
One thing was the decision to worship. Each worship session is different, produces a another slightly expanded view of God. That qualify?
Uh, I don’t think worship is as important as doing something selfless. An expanded view of God doesn’t grow the soul. Doing the will of God does. Of course the soul needs a good balance between spiritual nourishment and spiritual exercise, so worship is important, that’s for sure.
Rick Warren wrote: So you don’t think those 1st and 2nd circlers have to appear before a judgment council? Give an accounting?Where does it say that we have to stand before a judgment council upon death? You must be thinking of those events during the ascension career when we are at odds with someone, have some friction or clash of personalities. Judgment upon death is a discernment of whether or not there is something of survival value present or not. We don’t give an accounting of ourselves, our angels and our Adjuster do that for us (because we are not conscious at the time and all our parts are in different places). And even after survival, I think it would be kind of silly for a judgment counsel to drill us on why we made this decision or that decision when the specific memories of those decisions are long gone. Furthermore, the Adjuster already knows why we do what we do, and why we did what we did, as do the angels. In fact, the whole universe already knows everything about us. It’s all recorded for posterity. A judgement counsel would already have all the information they need, so giving a personal accounting of a prior life to a judgment council makes no sense to me at all. Such a practice would negate the purpose of the roll call of mercy.
108:6.6 And as you are the human parent, so is the Adjuster the divine parent of the real you, your higher and advancing self, your better morontial and future spiritual self. And it is this evolving morontial soul that the judges and censors discern when they decree your survival and pass you upward to new worlds and never-ending existence in eternal liaison with your faithful partner – God, the Adjuster. 113:6.8 The technique of justice demands that personal or group guardians shall respond to the dispensational roll call in behalf of all nonsurviving personalities. The Adjusters of such nonsurvivors do not return, and when the rolls are called, the seraphim respond, but the Adjusters make no answer. This constitutes the “resurrection of the unjust,” in reality the formal recognition of the cessation of creature existence. This roll call of justice always immediately follows the roll call of mercy, the resurrection of the sleeping survivors. But these are matters which are of concern to none but the supreme and all-knowing Judges of survival values. Such problems of adjudication do not really concern us.
These are quotes that suggest a place and time of judgment:
“…And yet, because of the ever-present help and urge of the Thought Adjuster, this soul did achieve a fair degree of happiness and success and has even now ascended to the judgment halls of mansonia.” 111:7:5
…To the Roman judge he said: “As you judge men, remember that you yourself will also some day come to judgment before the bar of the Rulers of a universe….” 133:4:7If we are judged before resurrection, how can we thus plea, as Jesus indicates here? When is this ‘day’?:.“…In the great day of the kingdom judgment, many will say to me, ‘Did we not prophesy in your name and by your name do many wonderful works?’140:3:20Rick Warren wrote: Still not seeing when exactly this happens to lower circlers, you?Yeah. It says in TUB that resurrection roll calls are at the end of a dispensation. There are some special roll calls for distinguished survivors, like Adam and Eve, but that has nothing to do with the “lower circlers” seven through four, the sleeping survivors and non-survivors.
Yes, but after resurrection, or before?.Rick Warren wrote: On what mansion world would you place third circlers?Good question. I have no idea. I would think that it’s an individual thing since the psychic circles are very individual. I think even third circlers might have some deficiencies to make up for on mansion world one. It all depends on the circumstances and experiences of their life on earth whether or not they have to make up for deficiencies.
47:3.8 Almost the entire experience of mansion world number one pertains to deficiency ministry. Survivors arriving on this first of the detention spheres present so many and such varied defects of creature character and deficiencies of mortal experience that the major activities of the realm are occupied with the correction and cure of these manifold legacies of the life in the flesh on the material evolutionary worlds of time and space.
Agree. It seems right to put those with guardians on the second or third mansion, but can’t find any confirming quote.
Rick Warren wrote: So, we return to the disagreement, what is ‘essential’ to our universe career?I wasn’t aware that we had a disagreement over what is essential to our universe career. Isn’t our disagreement over the survival of erroneous thinking?
No, didn’t we already agreed trashy thinking is left behind?
I say it doesn’t survive. But the question is a valid one. What is essential to our universe career? I would say the desire to do God’s will. That’s about the crux of it. After all, it is not so much what we are but we desire to become that really matters, it’s all about the struggle between the the material self and the divine self, the mastery of self according to God’s will.
50:6.3 The initial life of the mortal races is always attended by struggle. Effort and decision are an essential part of the acquirement of survival values. 110:3.2 The success of your Adjuster in the enterprise of piloting you through the mortal life and bringing about your survival depends not so much on the theories of your beliefs as upon your decisions, determinations, and steadfast faith. All these movements of personality growth become powerful influences aiding in your advancement because they help you to co-operate with the Adjuster; they assist you in ceasing to resist. Thought Adjusters succeed or apparently fail in their terrestrial undertakings just in so far as mortals succeed or fail to co-operate with the scheme whereby they are to be advanced along the ascending path of perfection attainment. The secret of survival is wrapped up in the supreme human desire to be Godlike and in the associated willingness to do and be any and all things which are essentialto the final attainment of that overmastering desire. 111:1.5 Mortal mind is a temporary intellect system loaned to human beings for use during a material lifetime, and as they use this mind, they are either accepting or rejecting the potential of eternal existence. Mind is about all you have of universe reality that is subject to your will, and the soul — the morontia self — will faithfully portray the harvest of the temporal decisions which the mortal self is making. Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious. And it is not so much what mind comprehends as what mind desires to comprehend that insures survival; it is not so much what mind is like as what mind is striving to be like that constitutes spirit identification. It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity. 147:5.7 That same evening Jesus made the long-to-be-remembered address to the apostles regarding the relative value of status with God and progress in the eternal ascent to Paradise. Said Jesus: “My children, if there exists a true and living connection between the child and the Father, the child is certain to progress continuously toward the Father’s ideals. True, the child may at first make slow progress, but the progress is none the less sure. The important thing is not the rapidity of your progress but rather its certainty. Your actual achievement is not so important as the fact that the direction of your progress is Godward. What you are becoming day by day is of infinitely more importance than what you are today.
Yes, we know faith is the ticket, progress in service and spirit the price. But the question about the word essential was referring to this quote:
…The Thought Adjuster will recall and rehearse for you only those memories and experiences which are a part of, and essential to, your universe career…. 112:5.22What all is essential? So many things. Language, relationships, spiritual values, and memories of errors and mistakes that led to values comprehension and integration. What is non-essential? What you had for breakfast and those angry thoughts about an ex?
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Richard E Warren
One thing was the decision to worship. Each worship session is different, produces a another slightly expanded view of God. That qualify?
Uh, I don’t think worship is as important as doing something selfless. An expanded view of God doesn’t grow the soul. Doing the will of God does. Of course the soul needs a good balance between spiritual nourishment and spiritual exercise, so worship is important, that’s for sure.
It may not be AS important, but intimacy with, and understanding of, God has enduring spiritual value. I can’t doubt or question that. An expanded view [experience] of God is essential to becoming more Godlike. How can one become Godlike unless one comes to know God more and better all the time? Granted service doing the will of God does also have spirit value. And you probably do God’s will everyday, or at least attempt to. Everyday that something of spirit value doesn’t happen, is a lost day. Opportunities abound with each day.
If all those days and situations that produce spirit value are essential, they must survive in Adjuster memory, therefore then, is there quite a bit that will be available and recalled upon our resurrection.
.
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Richard E Warren
The only way to really know God is to BE like him. Expanding a view of God and having a memory of its understanding doesn’t matter compared to actually BEING like him now and forever. Why wait?
Rick Warren wrote: These are quotes that suggest a place and time of judgment:In the first quote they are referring to the resurrection halls where the roll call of mercy and the roll call of justice takes place. The second quote is referring to discernment as a form of judgment. Again, universe rulers do not judge the way human judges do. At the resurrection they discern the presence or absence of value. Value cannot be present without the desire to seek and express it. In other words, value doesn’t show up all on its own in the soul, it requires effort. The Roman in the quote will come to the bar for discernment, to determine whether or not he has co-created a soul during his life, which means he’s lived a worthwhile life at least in part. And that’s all it means. Mercy dictates he gets more chances to improve on his efforts.
Rick Warren wrote: If we are judged before resurrection, how can we thus plea, as Jesus indicates here?
When is this ‘day’?: “…In the great day of the kingdom judgment, many will say to me, ‘Did we not prophesy in your name and by your name do many wonderful works?’140:3:20Jesus is not talking about the resurrection there. He’s talking about a “kingdom judgment”. Don’t forget that there is another type of judgment, the “judgment of the realm,” which is the same as “kingdom judgment”. Judgment of the realm happens at the end of a dispensation. The fate of the evolutionary races are determined at that time (20:3.2), new planetary ministries are established. Avonals determine whether or not the evolutionary plan is operating smoothly (52:7.8) and institute the next dispensation. Jesus explained how personal judgment and planetary (kingdom) judgment are similar in the following quote. Keep in mind that judgment does not require an “accounting”, it means coming up against reality face to face; either you are real or you’re not. A soul is real. When Jesus said that he would not know some who prophesied falsely in his name, he meant their teaching or prophesies have no lasting value. Such nonsense is not real, it’s not true, and will not continue when “confronted with the conditions and demands” of the next revelation of the kingdom. Jesus cannot recognize that which is not real and true, nor can it continue in a progressively real and true universe.
176:2.7 “But what is the significance of this teaching having to do with the coming of the Sons of God? Do you not perceive that, when each of you is called to lay down his life struggle and pass through the portal of death, you stand in the immediate presence of judgment, and that you are face to face with the facts of a new dispensation of service in the eternal plan of the infinite Father? What the whole world must face as a literal fact at the end of an age, you, as individuals, must each most certainly face as a personal experience when you reach the end of your natural life and thereby pass on to be confronted with the conditions and demands inherent in the next revelation of the eternal progression of the Father’s kingdom.”
Rick Warren wrote:Yes, but after resurrection, or before?Neither. It happens AT resurrection. The resurrection IS THE judgment. If you’re resurrected, you’re real. Only reality can be resurrected.Rick Warren wrote: Agree. It seems right to put those with guardians on the second or third mansion, but can’t find any confirming quote.And you won’t because it’s highly personal. Even a first circler might have missed out on some experience on earth that is only offered on mansion world one. It’s not a cookbook.
Rick Warren wrote: No, didn’t we already agreed trashy thinking is left behind?It’s more than trashy thinking, it’s material thinking. The soul does not think materially. It thinks morontially. I don’t know if you want to get into what material thinking is and why it can’t happen on morontia levels. You’ll have to let me know if you want to go down that road. It’s a long one. Just remember that morontia is supermaterial.
Bonita wrote: What all is essential? So many things. Language, relationships, spiritual values, and memories of errors and mistakes that led to values comprehension and integration. What is non-essential? What you had for breakfast and those angry thoughts about an ex?That’s a start. It would be different for each person, of course. Breakfast might be part of someone’s spiritual growth at some point. The quote says memories and experiences. Memories are kept by the Adjuster. Experience, which is part of your universe career, starts with the birth of the soul. Everything in the soul is essential. The soul is place where power personality synthesis evolves. It is really part of the Supreme. But you have to actualize potential in order to grow a soul. You have to recognize value and make it come to life with your own color and style. The soul is your divine self and it’s a beautiful asset to the universe. Definitely essential. No question.
Rick Warren wrote: How can one become Godlike unless one comes to know God more and better all the time?“Human things must be known in order to be loved, but divine things must be loved in order to be known.” I think we become more like God because we love God rather than know him. Human things have to be known first.
What I think you really mean is that practicing the presence of God as an act of love has mighty repercussions in one’s life. Staying connected to the loving vine means always keeping God present in your mind, sharing the inner life with him all of the time. That’s an act of love and it produces fruits of the spirit in your life. It’s not really worship. Worship is something else. It’s more like a continual prayer of devotion, at least it is for me. Keep the love connection going at all times, practice the presence of God at all times and wonderful things sprout up everyday. And it seems to happen all on its own, but I know if I cease the effort, the connection might be broken and fewer fruits will appear, so I don’t do that. I keep it up at all times, and I try really hard to let my intentions known before I fall asleep. TUB does tell us that some idea-decisions that get lodged in the soul can be spiritized by the Adjuster while we sleep (110:5.3). That makes it a 24/7 love affair.The only way to really know God is to BE like him. Expanding a view of God and having a memory of its understanding doesn’t matter compared to actually BEING like him now and forever. Why wait?
Exactly. I should have said experience instead of view. Thanks.
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Richard E Warren
Rick Warren wrote: These are quotes that suggest a place and time of judgment:In the first quote they are referring to the resurrection halls where the roll call of mercy and the roll call of justice takes place. The second quote is referring to discernment as a form of judgment. Again, universe rulers do not judge the way human judges do. At the resurrection they discern the presence or absence of value. Value cannot be present without the desire to seek and express it. In other words, value doesn’t show up all on its own in the soul, it requires effort. The Roman in the quote will come to the bar for discernment, to determine whether or not he has co-created a soul during his life, which means he’s lived a worthwhile life at least in part. And that’s all it means. Mercy dictates he gets more chances to improve on his efforts.
Rick Warren wrote: If we are judged before resurrection, how can we thus plea, as Jesus indicates here?
When is this ‘day’?: “…In the great day of the kingdom judgment, many will say to me, ‘Did we not prophesy in your name and by your name do many wonderful works?’140:3:20Jesus is not talking about the resurrection there. He’s talking about a “kingdom judgment”. Don’t forget that there is another type of judgment, the “judgment of the realm,” which is the same as “kingdom judgment”. Judgment of the realm happens at the end of a dispensation. The fate of the evolutionary races are determined at that time (20:3.2), new planetary ministries are established. Avonals determine whether or not the evolutionary plan is operating smoothly (52:7.8) and institute the next dispensation. Jesus explained how personal judgment and planetary (kingdom) judgment are similar in the following quote. Keep in mind that judgment does not require an “accounting”, it means coming up against reality face to face; either you are real or you’re not. A soul is real. When Jesus said that he would not know some who prophesied falsely in his name, he meant their teaching or prophesies have no lasting value. Such nonsense is not real, it’s not true, and will not continue when “confronted with the conditions and demands” of the next revelation of the kingdom. Jesus cannot recognize that which is not real and true, nor can it continue in a progressively real and true universe.
176:2.7 “But what is the significance of this teaching having to do with the coming of the Sons of God? Do you not perceive that, when each of you is called to lay down his life struggle and pass through the portal of death, you stand in the immediate presence of judgment, and that you are face to face with the facts of a new dispensation of service in the eternal plan of the infinite Father? What the whole world must face as a literal fact at the end of an age, you, as individuals, must each most certainly face as a personal experience when you reach the end of your natural life and thereby pass on to be confronted with the conditions and demands inherent in the next revelation of the eternal progression of the Father’s kingdom.”
Rick Warren wrote:Yes, but after resurrection, or before?Neither. It happens AT resurrection. The resurrection IS THE judgment. If you’re resurrected, you’re real. Only reality can be resurrected.Ok, you’ve convinced me. The reason we resurrect is because there was judgment in favor, we don’t need to be present or conscious. The Adjusters and angels have already made up their minds and it’s on the record book at or before resurrection.Rick Warren wrote: Agree. It seems right to put those with guardians on the second or third mansion, but can’t find any confirming quote.And you won’t because it’s highly personal. Even a first circler might have missed out on some experience on earth that is only offered on mansion world one. It’s not a cookbook.
Right, but I should have explained that was in reference to this quote about resurrectees who stay ten days on Mansion 1, then move to 2:…If you are not to be detained on mansion world number one, at the end of ten days you will enter the translation sleep and proceed to world number two, and every ten days thereafter you will thus advance until you arrive on the world of your assignment.
Rick Warren wrote: No, didn’t we already agreed trashy thinking is left behind?It’s more than trashy thinking, it’s material thinking. The soul does not think materially. It thinks morontially. I don’t know if you want to get into what material thinking is and why it can’t happen on morontia levels. You’ll have to let me know if you want to go down that road. It’s a long one. Just remember that morontia is supermaterial.
Thinking in stereo, right? Got ya’ mota runnin’? Reckon I need to hear this. Thanks in advance.Bonita wrote: What all is essential? So many things. Language, relationships, spiritual values, and memories of errors and mistakes that led to values comprehension and integration. What is non-essential? What you had for breakfast and those angry thoughts about an ex?That’s a start. It would be different for each person, of course. Breakfast might be part of someone’s spiritual growth at some point. The quote says memories and experiences. Memories are kept by the Adjuster. Experience, which is part of your universe career, starts with the birth of the soul. Everything in the soul is essential. The soul is place where power personality synthesis evolves. It is really part of the Supreme. But you have to actualize potential in order to grow a soul. You have to recognize value and make it come to life with your own color and style. The soul is your divine self and it’s a beautiful asset to the universe. Definitely essential. No question.
The authors declare the Adjuster is also the divine self:
…Even though the spirit of a Son be poured out upon all flesh, even though a Son once dwelt with you in the likeness of mortal flesh, even though the seraphim personally guard and guide you, how can any of these divine beings of the Second and Third Centers ever hope to come as near to you or to understand you as fully as the Father, who has given a part of himself to be in you, to be your real and divine, even your eternal, self? 12:7:14Rick Warren wrote: How can one become Godlike unless one comes to know God more and better all the time?“Human things must be known in order to be loved, but divine things must be loved in order to be known.” I think we become more like God because we love God rather than know him. Human things have to be known first.
What I think you really mean is that practicing the presence of God as an act of love has mighty repercussions in one’s life. Staying connected to the loving vine means always keeping God present in your mind, sharing the inner life with him all of the time. That’s an act of love and it produces fruits of the spirit in your life. It’s not really worship. Worship is something else. It’s more like a continual prayer of devotion, at least it is for me. Keep the love connection going at all times, practice the presence of God at all times and wonderful things sprout up everyday..And those things may be recalled on resurrection I think. It’s the fabric of the soul..…And it seems to happen all on its own, but I know if I cease the effort, the connection might be broken and fewer fruits will appear, so I don’t do that. I keep it up at all times, and I try really hard to let my intentions known before I fall asleep. TUB does tell us that some idea-decisions that get lodged in the soul can be spiritized by the Adjuster while we sleep (110:5.3). That makes it a 24/7 love affair.Yes, and beautifully expressed..Richard E Warren
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