RESURRECTION HALL – Redux

[Bonita]

Rick Warren wrote: And those things may be recalled on resurrection I think. It’s the fabric of the soul.

I guess it depends on how you define “recall”.  I don’t think it has to be remembered because the fabric is a habit of the soul.  The soul will pick up its habit where it left off.  If it submits to the call during this life, it will continue to submit in the next life.  The Adjuster is the one calling and he doesn’t change in that regard.  So, what I’m trying to say is that it’s not a memory.  It’s more like a behavior of mind, an attitude, or maybe better, a beatitude (beautiful attitude toward reality and divinity; a blessed way of directing thought spiritward).

The fabric, or matrix, of the soul is the divine character traits built up over the life in the flesh.  A divine character can only be divine if it contains a portion of Divinity.  Woven into that character are the jewels of Divinity from the Adjuster.  If you want to paint a glorious picture of the resurrected life, have your resurrectees discover the beauty in their own souls, recognize their Adjusters and glory over how exciting it is to see truth, beauty and goodness so clearly.  The days of materialism are gone. Have them recognize strong urges for learning and sharing; growing and progressing; serving and giving thanks. The excitement should be electric.  The desire to find old friends, to share the good news, should be overpowering. They should be looking forward to classes, surveying their many options.  They should be animated when the angels assess their special talents that they can develop.  And, the pleasure that comes from assisting the angels should be thrilling.  Discovery, recognition and interpretation reaches new heights!  Awakening to new meanings and values is the real meat and potatoes of the experience, I would think.  How enlivened they should be! Don’t burden them with fears of judgment.  No-no to that.

Rick Warren wrote:  Thinking in stereo, right? Got ya’ mota runnin’? Reckon I need to hear this. Thanks in advance.

Sigh.  I was hoping you would just ignore that offer.  It’s a huge project.  But, I offered to explain what MATERIAL thinking is all about and why it stops working on the mansion worlds.  Morontia thinking, soul thinking, is another thing.  In this life soul thinking is embryonic.  I’m not sure there’s a way to describe that since it is experiential thinking (more than one dimension) . . .  not enough info and inadequate language for that . . .  and since I haven’t been to the mansion worlds (that I know of) I can’t say how thinking goes on there.  Moreover, I know what you know about mota, not much I presume.   So, a long dissertation on what material thinking is all about may not help you write your novel since there’s none of that on the mansion worlds.  Are you sure you want to go there??

[Bradly]

Just wanted to say how much I’m enjoying the conversation…learning a lot!  I don’t recall why I think this, but I believe we will have the opportunity (or the embarrassment) of viewing our entire life as a mortal and also the entirety of the history of our world.  I agree such a view of the past is part of our educational/reversion experience and is not a function of auto-recall or early memories when we awaken on the first Mansion World.  It is also my understanding that our Adjuster is fully cognizant of our circle progress at all times and can measure each and every inch of spiritization regarding both the quantity and quality of our experience.  I’m pretty sure I remember that even those who have attained the final circle may still have a great deal of harmonization and wisdom integration still to accomplish prior to fusion.  Such progress is not lineally measured by any sort of time but has a qualitative value that determines our real position related to future fusion.

I would also advise Rick that absolute accuracy in every detail is already provided in the UB and that a simple disclaimer regarding conflicts with the details of reality in a work of illustrative fiction is no big deal….so long as such discrepancies are not intentional or radically alter or contradict the source material….this is fiction and I think it has a power to touch and to lead to the source of its story, the UB.  There will be a lot of this type of writing.  Indeed, a Spanish author and fiction writer wrote a series of novels based on characters and terms from the UB which led to the fastest growing demographic of UB readers today – Spanish speakers.

I think it a worthy and humble effort to seek out such feedback as Rick has here and applaud Bonita’s willingness to explore the story and comment on or give the requested feedback related to what happens and when and how in that sublime time to come.

= )

[Richard E Warren]

Bonita wrote:

Rick Warren wrote: And those things may be recalled on resurrection I think. It’s the fabric of the soul.

I guess it depends on how you define “recall”. I don’t think it has to be remembered because the fabric is a habit of the soul. The soul will pick up its habit where it left off. If it submits to the call during this life, it will continue to submit in the next life. The Adjuster is the one calling and he doesn’t change in that regard. So, what I’m trying to say is that it’s not a memory. It’s more like a behavior of mind, an attitude, or maybe better, a beatitude (beautiful attitude toward reality and divinity; a blessed way of directing thought spiritward). The fabric, or matrix, of the soul is the divine character traits built up over the life in the flesh. A divine character can only be divine if it contains a portion of Divinity. Woven into that character are the jewels of Divinity from the Adjuster. If you want to paint a glorious picture of the resurrected life, have your resurrectees discover the beauty in their own souls, recognize their Adjusters and glory over how exciting it is to see truth, beauty and goodness so clearly. The days of materialism are gone. Have them recognize strong urges for learning and sharing; growing and progressing; serving and giving thanks. The excitement should be electric. The desire to find old friends, to share the good news, should be overpowering. They should be looking forward to classes, surveying their many options. They should be animated when the angels assess their special talents that they can develop. And, the pleasure that comes from assisting the angels should be thrilling. Discovery, recognition and interpretation reaches new heights! Awakening to new meanings and values is the real meat and potatoes of the experience, I would think. How enlivened they should be! Don’t burden them with fears of judgment. No-no to that.

Ok, I plan to. Your words define my intent better than I could have. Thanks much!

 .

These characters are positive and eager learners, else they wouldn’t have had guardians assigned and be resurrected. However we keep talking across each other about memory and recall upon resurrection. I can agree with you about the soul’s habits, and that it doesn’t operate from verbatim memory, rather value memory. But, apparently, we do not agree about how much recall/memory the Adjuster brings to resurrection. If an experience had even a bit of spirit value, whether found in revelation, service, or worship, everyday or once in a life, surely it will be a part of one’s recall, perhaps ‘in proportion to its divinity content’.

 ,

Rick Warren wrote: Thinking in stereo, right? Got ya’ mota runnin’? Reckon I need to hear this. Thanks in advance.

Sigh. I was hoping you would just ignore that offer. It’s a huge project. But, I offered to explain what MATERIAL thinking is all about and why it stops working on the mansion worlds. Morontia thinking, soul thinking, is another thing. In this life soul thinking is embryonic. I’m not sure there’s a way to describe that since it is experiential thinking (more than one dimension) . . . not enough info and inadequate language for that . . . and since I haven’t been to the mansion worlds (that I know of) I can’t say how thinking goes on there. Moreover, I know what you know about mota, not much I presume. So, a long dissertation on what material thinking is all about may not help you write your novel since there’s none of that on the mansion worlds. Are you sure you want to go there??

Let’s do just the cliff’s notes here, which you did already in the paragraph above. It IS difficult to put into words, as you indicate, but one might get a sense of the feeling of morontia thinking because of this line from a Melchizedek:

…Revelation is the only technique which can compensate for the absence of the truth sensitivity of mota in a material world. Revelation authoritatively clarifies the muddle of reason-developed metaphysics on an evolutionary sphere…. 103:6:8

Having a sense of the whole revelation, being steeped in it for 30 years, brings an awareness of the possibility and potential for higher thinking. More and more these days I feel connected to the next life, maybe because I am one minute to a decade or two from there. But I have this growing and certain feeling of the wonders and expansion of Mansion life. Also perhaps, morontia thought, as I lean father and farther into the teachings about our future lives.  Bet you and other believers are feeling it too. And of course UBers aren’t alone in this. Evidently anyone can have visions of and feelings for the next life. At least Paul and John did.

One thing the story’s characters might attempt is to create the upper side of the 28 mota meanings, their own version.

 

.

Richard E Warren

[Richard E Warren]

Bradly wrote:

Just wanted to say how much I’m enjoying the conversation…learning a lot! I don’t recall why I think this, but I believe we will have the opportunity (or the embarrassment) of viewing our entire life as a mortal and also the entirety of the history of our world. I agree such a view of the past is part of our educational/reversion experience and is not a function of auto-recall or early memories when we awaken on the first Mansion World. It is also my understanding that our Adjuster is fully cognizant of our circle progress at all times and can measure each and every inch of spiritization regarding both the quantity and quality of our experience. I’m pretty sure I remember that even those who have attained the final circle may still have a great deal of harmonization and wisdom integration still to accomplish prior to fusion. Such progress is not lineally measured by any sort of time but has a qualitative value that determines our real position related to future fusion.

Thanks for that Bradly, all thoughtful input, insightful reasoning. It wouldn’t be a surprise if most UBers believe we will get an overview of our lives here, but where is the supporting quote?

I would also advise Rick that absolute accuracy in every detail is already provided in the UB and that a simple disclaimer regarding conflicts with the details of reality in a work of illustrative fiction is no big deal….so long as such discrepancies are not intentional or radically alter or contradict the source material….this is fiction and I think it has a power to touch and to lead to the source of its story, the UB. There will be a lot of this type of writing. Indeed, a Spanish author and fiction writer wrote a series of novels based on characters and terms from the UB which led to the fastest growing demographic of UB readers today – Spanish speakers. I think it a worthy and humble effort to seek out such feedback as Rick has here and applaud Bonita’s willingness to explore the story and comment on or give the requested feedback related to what happens and when and how in that sublime time to come. = )

Hadn’t crossed my mind, but a disclaimer is a good idea. Will think on it, decide when and where to insert.

Thanks also for this cogent advise: “…conflicts with the details of reality in a work of illustrative fiction is no big deal….so long as such discrepancies are not intentional or radically alter or contradict the source material…”

I shall endeavor to keep as close to the revelations about mansion life as possible, and still inject a plausible and interesting story line. But I well know it will fall short.

Yes, Benitez set the Spanish speaking seeker world afire with his borrowing from Part 4. So far he’s led the way in sucessfully mixing fiction and our new revelation. Someday, I pray, someone(s) will take the greatest spiritual manuscript ever written, Part 4, and make a great movie, or miniseries, one worthy of the text. Meanwhile I will attempt this word picture of resurrection. Reflections, comments, critiques, and questions from longtime, and short time, readers is a blessed bonus.

.

Richard E Warren

[Bonita]

Rick Warren wrote: If an experience had even a bit of spirit value, whether found in revelation, service, or worship, everyday or once in a life, surely it will be a part of one’s recall, perhaps ‘in proportion to its divinity content’.

Surely.  I guess you’ve forgotten that my original post was in response to this comment:

chucksmith1982 wrote:I think that a lot of people are going/have been surprised at what is actually in store for them that has very little resembalance to what they were taught in this life from the religions of this world.

I said that erroneous ideas do not survive into the next life because they are not real.  The soul reflects only real accomplishments made by the personality.  Inaccurate, false, incorrect, mistaken ideas do not survive.  How could they?  They perish along with the adjutant mind which invented them.  Erroneous religious teachings and beliefs from this world will not survive.  Truth will.

Also recall that truth is a relational phenomenon, and is therefore experiential.  True experiences will be remembered.  Moreover, we will have the benefit of the Holy Spirit and Spirit of Truth in the morontia life as we have here.  The Spirit of Truth is the spirit of relationships of all things and of all people.  If the Spirit of Truth has participated in a relational experience in this life, it will continue to exist in the next.  The Spirit of Truth draws all that is of spirit value to himself.

p647:4 56:10.13 The recognition of true relations implies a mind competent to discriminate between truth and error. The bestowal Spirit of Truth which invests the human minds of Urantia is unerringly responsive to truth—the living spirit relationship of all things and all beings as they are co-ordinated in the eternal ascent Godward.

40:6.6 This spirit ever draws you toward the divine Son, who is its source, and toward the Paradise Father, who is the source of that divine Son.

Rick Warren wrote: Let’s do just the cliff’s notes here, which you did already in the paragraph above. It IS difficult to put into words, as you indicate, but one might get a sense of the feeling of morontia thinking because of this line from a Melchizedek:

Rick, I don’t think you’re understanding me.  I said:

Bonita wrote: It’s more than trashy thinking, it’s material thinking.  The soul does not think materially.  It thinks morontially.  I don’t know if you want to get into what material thinking is and why it can’t happen on morontia levels.  You’ll have to let me know if you want to go down that road.  It’s a long one.  Just remember that morontia is supermaterial.

My offer was to explain material thinking, not morontia thinking.  I can’t explain morontia thinking because TUB doesn’t go into much detail about it and I haven’t been to the mansion worlds to experience it for myself.  But TUB does tell us tons and tons about material thinking, and it also says that we borrow this level of thinking while we’re here then leave it behind.  Only soul level thinking goes with us.

Personally, I believe that soul thinking in this life is an early form of morontia thinking.  That is something I can talk about, but it’s based upon personal experience so I’m not sure how much value it has to you or anyone else.

Here’s what I wrote about the morontia level of consciousness in my mini-book on the Holy Spirit.  There’s more on cosmic consciousness if you’re interested:

The morontia level of mind is a conjoined ministry of the cosmic mind and the Holy Spirit.  It is a level of recognition of close relationship with Deity and increases with psychic circle progression.

The morontia soul has its own consciousness with the spiritual luminosity of the Adjuster, the presence of God, at its very core.  Consciousness of this inner illumination occurs when the soul reaches a certain level of growth and spirit identification.  The morontia consciousness of the soul becomes aware of both the Adjuster and the material mind as parental constituents.  At this time there develops a morontia mind mechanism which functions to influence the material mind for the purpose of continued co-creative soul growth.

The mind is the gateway to the soul, but only the mind illuminated by spirit presence.  The soul itself is a morontia co-presence whose consciousness the human mind soon begins to recognize and identify with in turn. This increase in capacity of receptivity is due to the expansion of mind (not necessarily intellect) in an effort to satisfy the soul’s desires.

This mechanism by which the soul influences the human mind includes, among other things, the combined presence of the Holy Spirit and Spirit of Truth. These combined Spirits are the sources of spiritual reasoning concerning the interrelation of spiritual realities discovered by the soul.

When Jesus spoke of himself as being the way to the Father, he was referring to this path of personality enlightenment by Spirit.  It is a path of more than just intellect; it includes trust in the presence of God and acceptance of truth which illuminates his will.  For the spiritually progressing personality, this eventually includes cosmic awareness of the presence of the Supreme Being, a level of cosmic consciousness.  (copyright protected content, reproduction only with consent)

Rick Warren wrote:One thing the story’s characters might attempt is to create the upper side of the 28 mota meanings, their own version.

I don’t mean to be discouraging, but if you can do that I think it will be something just shy of a miracle.  It’s not possible to explain mota with the material mind, and as far as I know, you’re writing this story with your material mind, and we’re reading it with our material minds. If you want to glean new mota meanings, you have to experience them at the soul level of thinking and then find a way to describe them using  material level thinking.  That’s quite an undertaking.  I know I’ve tried to explain a few soul level experiences here on this forum with mixed results.  It’s a tough thing to do. Only people who have had somewhat similar experiences appreciate what you’re saying.  So lots of luck with the mota thing.  I wish you the very best with that.  Maybe you’ll find success.  I hope so.

[Bonita]

Bradly wrote:

I’m pretty sure I remember that even those who have attained the final circle may still have a great deal of harmonization and wisdom integration still to accomplish prior to fusion.

Here are the quotes:

110:6.1 Completion of the first circle denotes the relative maturity of the mortal being. Though the traversal of the seven circles of cosmic growth does not equal fusion with the Adjuster, the mastery of these circles marks the attainment of those steps which are preliminary to Adjuster fusion. 

110:7.1  The achievement of the seven cosmic circles does not equal Adjuster fusion. There are many mortals living on Urantia who have attained their circles; but fusion depends on yet other greater and more sublime spiritual achievements, upon the attainment of a final and complete attunement of the mortal will with the will of God as it is resident in the Thought Adjuster.

134:8.4 Jesus spent the last three weeks of August and the first three weeks of September on Mount Hermon. During these weeks he finished the mortal task of achieving the circles of mind-understanding and personality-control. Throughout this period of communion with his heavenly Father the indwelling Adjuster also completed the assigned services. The mortal goal of this earth creature was there attained. Only the final phase of mind and Adjuster attunement remained to be consummated. 

One of the things that happens in the soul when all seven circles are completed in this life is the superimposition of a mind phenomenon which conjoins the cosmic mind with the Holy Spirit. This is an early form of the morontia mind as indicated in the next quotes:

112:6.9  Subsequently, upon the completion of the seven circles of premorontia attainment, the superimposition of the endowment of morontia mind upon adjutant mind initiates the prespiritual or morontia career of local universe progression.

110:6.21 Beyond the first circle, mind becomes increasingly akin to the intelligence of the morontia stage of evolution, the conjoined ministry of the cosmic mind and the superadjutant endowment of the Creative Spirit of a local universe.

[Gene]

Erroneous ideas do not survive into the next life because they are not real. The soul reflects only real accomplishments made by the personality. Inaccurate, false, incorrect, mistaken ideas do not survive. How could they? They perish along with the adjutant mind which invented them.

I suppose we don’t have a choice. Can’t hang onto something we may believe has value just because we want to. No nostalgia or sentiment allowed?

[Bonita]

Gene wrote:  No nostalgia or sentiment allowed?

Nostalgia is a human emotion.  I think a lot of human emotions get left behind with the adjutant mind.  Although, there is something akin to nostalgia in the next life:

39:1.10 3. Universe Orientators. These are the true friends and postgraduate counselors of all those ascending creatures who are pausing for the last time on Salvington, in their universe of origin, as they stand on the brink of the spirit adventure stretching out before them in the vast superuniverse of Orvonton. And at such a time many an ascender has a feeling which mortals could understand only by comparison with the human emotion of nostalgia. Behind lie the realms of achievement, realms grown familiar by long service and morontia attainment; ahead lies the challenging mystery of a greater and vaster universe.

Isn’t nostalgia akin to a sense of familiarity built up over time?  Perhaps when we encounter people from our former life there is this sense of familiarity?  I don’t know.  I would also guess that divine sentiments would continue in some fashion.  Altruistic sentiments, friendly and loving sentiments, the supreme sentiment of loyalty and devotion probably all survive. False sentiments won’t survive, neither will sentiments of sexual attraction.  There’s a lot of purely human stuff that we take for granted which is not survivable.  It might come as a shock to some to think that so much of what they think important here on earth has no lasting significance.  For instance, my shoe collection.  I can’t tell you how many times I’ve had the dream in which the angels have come for me and I make them wait while I pack my shoes, and they just laugh and laugh. I get it, but I still love shoes. And I’m gonna keep on lovin’ you, ‘Cause it’s the only thing I want to do, I don’t want to sleep, I just want to keep on lovin’ you . . . my shoes  . . . lah, lah, lah.

[Richard E Warren]

Bonita wrote:

Rick Warren wrote: If an experience had even a bit of spirit value, whether found in revelation, service, or worship, everyday or once in a life, surely it will be a part of one’s recall, perhaps ‘in proportion to its divinity content’.

Surely. I guess you’ve forgotten that my original post was in response to this comment:

chucksmith1982 wrote:I think that a lot of people are going/have been surprised at what is actually in store for them that has very little resembalance to what they were taught in this life from the religions of this world.

I said that erroneous ideas do not survive into the next life because they are not real. The soul reflects only real accomplishments made by the personality. Inaccurate, false, incorrect, mistaken ideas do not survive. How could they? They perish along with the adjutant mind which invented them. Erroneous religious teachings and beliefs from this world will not survive. Truth will.

Also recall that truth is a relational phenomenon, and is therefore experiential. True experiences will be remembered. Moreover, we will have the benefit of the Holy Spirit and Spirit of Truth in the morontia life as we have here. The Spirit of Truth is the spirit of relationships of all things and of all people. If the Spirit of Truth has participated in a relational experience in this life, it will continue to exist in the next. The Spirit of Truth draws all that is of spirit value to himself.

p647:4 56:10.13 The recognition of true relations implies a mind competent to discriminate between truth and error. The bestowal Spirit of Truth which invests the human minds of Urantia is unerringly responsive to truth—the living spirit relationship of all things and all beings as they are co-ordinated in the eternal ascent Godward.

40:6.6 This spirit ever draws you toward the divine Son, who is its source, and toward the Paradise Father, who is the source of that divine Son.

Understood. And agreed. No, hadn’t forgotten. Seems like we are saying the same with differing words.

Rick Warren wrote: Let’s do just the cliff’s notes here, which you did already in the paragraph above. It IS difficult to put into words, as you indicate, but one might get a sense of the feeling of morontia thinking because of this line from a Melchizedek:

Rick, I don’t think you’re understanding me. I said:

Bonita wrote: It’s more than trashy thinking, it’s material thinking. The soul does not think materially. It thinks morontially. I don’t know if you want to get into what material thinking is and why it can’t happen on morontia levels. You’ll have to let me know if you want to go down that road. It’s a long one. Just remember that morontia is supermaterial.

 .

I understand what is being attempted is impossible, but you succeeded, in a measure, as I hope to.

.

My offer was to explain material thinking, not morontia thinking. I can’t explain morontia thinking because TUB doesn’t go into much detail about it and I haven’t been to the mansion worlds to experience it for myself. But TUB does tell us tons and tons about material thinking, and it also says that we borrow this level of thinking while we’re here then leave it behind. Only soul level thinking goes with us.

And soul is all encompassing of values, this we know for certain.

Personally, I believe that soul thinking in this life is an early form of morontia thinking. That is something I can talk about, but it’s based upon personal experience so I’m not sure how much value it has to you or anyone else.

I think many do experience it, in a measure, at some point. The closest anyone’s come to describing it is the quote from Melchizedek about revelation being the human analog for mota. This revelation builds up a morontia structure in our minds that offers a grander view, like mansonia and worlds above that provide. It may be crude but it is solid enough to make accessible the best substitute for mota we can get.  The other quote that builds on this is about how mota has a ‘stereoscopic effect on meaning and values’.

Here’s what I wrote about the morontia level of consciousness in my mini-book on the Holy Spirit. There’s more on cosmic consciousness if you’re interested:

The morontia level of mind is a conjoined ministry of the cosmic mind and the Holy Spirit. It is a level of recognition of close relationship with Deity and increases with psychic circle progression. The morontia soul has its own consciousness with the spiritual luminosity of the Adjuster, the presence of God, at its very core. Consciousness of this inner illumination occurs when the soul reaches a certain level of growth and spirit identification. The morontia consciousness of the soul becomes aware of both the Adjuster and the material mind as parental constituents. At this time there develops a morontia mind mechanism which functions to influence the material mind for the purpose of continued co-creative soul growth. The mind is the gateway to the soul, but only the mind illuminated by spirit presence. The soul itself is a morontia co-presence whose consciousness the human mind soon begins to recognize and identify with in turn. This increase in capacity of receptivity is due to the expansion of mind (not necessarily intellect) in an effort to satisfy the soul’s desires. This mechanism by which the soul influences the human mind includes, among other things, the combined presence of the Holy Spirit and Spirit of Truth. These combined Spirits are the sources of spiritual reasoning concerning the interrelation of spiritual realities discovered by the soul. When Jesus spoke of himself as being the way to the Father, he was referring to this path of personality enlightenment by Spirit. It is a path of more than just intellect; it includes trust in the presence of God and acceptance of truth which illuminates his will. For the spiritually progressing personality, this eventually includes cosmic awareness of the presence of the Supreme Being, a level of cosmic consciousness. (copyright protected content, reproduction only with consent)

Excellent thought work, notwithstanding having to down-step it into lowly words. The Cosmic Mind derives from the Seven Master Spirits. One pervades each of the seven superuniverses. The 7 adjutants and Holy Spirit are down-stepped mind ministries derived from the overarching Cosmic Mind. As I understand it, the CM is undiluted for ascenders between Salvington and Havona. Also, interestingly, the CM is necessary for individuation, creating a morontia body. And for that “reality response”:

 

…This reality sensitivity of the cosmic mind responds to certain phases of reality just as energy-material responds to gravity…. 16:6:4

Rick Warren wrote:One thing the story’s characters might attempt is to create the upper side of the 28 mota meanings, their own version.

I don’t mean to be discouraging, but if you can do that I think it will be something just shy of a miracle. It’s not possible to explain mota with the material mind, and as far as I know, you’re writing this story with your material mind, and we’re reading it with our material minds. If you want to glean new mota meanings, you have to experience them at the soul level of thinking and then find a way to describe them using material level thinking. That’s quite an undertaking. I know I’ve tried to explain a few soul level experiences here on this forum with mixed results. It’s a tough thing to do. Only people who have had somewhat similar experiences appreciate what you’re saying. So lots of luck with the mota thing. I wish you the very best with that. Maybe you’ll find success. I hope so.

I may skirt it, allude to it in passing, try to let the reader know it defies description if you haven’t been there and done that. But this story isn’t intended to be a treatise on mind or morontia, rather about the journey, the discoveries in store that are laid out in Paper 47, 48, and a host of others. Thanks much for the encouragement and best wishes, it means a lot. Everyone who has read the first three pages has also been encouraging, even enthusiastic. Can’t hurt to attempt this, besides it’s fun work, like creating a word sculpture. And it could make revelation entertaining.

 .

Two more pages will be posted tomorrow: http://urantia-association.org/forums/topic/resurrection-hall/

.

Richard E Warren

[Bonita]

Rick, do you really think that teenagers can make it to the third psychic circle?  I’m not even sure Jesus got there at that age.  Confused.

[Richard E Warren]

Bonita wrote:

Rick, do you really think that teenagers can make it to the third psychic circle? I’m not even sure Jesus got there at that age. Confused.

Confusion is justified. The fix is in.

Now Saro’s brother Will is much older when he dies, around 35, which, admittedly, is still young for a 3rd circler. But he died in war, with severe trials before succumbing, trials that accelerated his soul’s progress. Saro and Will can discuss when and under what circumstances his angels were assigned when they meet later.

Saro’s two cousins now died only a few years before him.

But the teenage girlfriend of Kala’s was a spiritual prodigy and even tho she died young, the two years prior she made remarkable progress, and was assigned guardians on the day she died. Joy and Kala should talk about this when they catch up.

Thanks very much for reading and commenting.

.

 

 

 

Richard E Warren

[Richard E Warren]

Question anyone,

About this in Paper 12:

 …In time, man’s body is just as real as mind or spirit, but in death, both mind (identity) and spirit survive while the body does not…. ^{12:8.16 (141.1)}

There’s this in Paper 30:

…The assigned seraphim is the keeper of the surviving identity — the immortal soul — as far as it has evolved…. 30:4:15

Elsewhere we are told the human mind doesn’t survive, and identity is lodged in the Angel’s care. Confused.

.

Richard E Warren

[Bonita]

Rick, thanks for clearing that up.  I suffer from an overactive reality attention disorder, so when I encounter things that don’t seem real, I get confused.

I am under the impression that many, many people believe that in “heaven” they will run into everyone they know who has passed on, including their pets.  I’m quite sure that is not so.  If I’m lucky enough to go on the third day, I have no hope of running into some of my acquaintances who have passed on until after the next dispensation.  And I’m hoping that I’m well out of the mansion world environment before my ex-husband gets there.  Just joking . . . . no really.

[Bonita]

Oh wait, I have another question.   What about this teenage spiritual prodigy?  Are you saying that she’s even more special than Jesus was as a human?  That I have a lot of trouble with.  It reminds me of the indigo children fallacy.  I really don’t think any human can do better than Jesus and I don’t think it’s a good idea to fuel the fallacy either.

Rick Warren wrote: Question anyone,

…In time, man’s body is just as real as mind or spirit, but in death, both mind (identity) and spirit survive while the body does not…. ^{12:8.16 (141.1)}

        …The assigned seraphim is the keeper of the surviving identity — the immortal soul — as far as it has evolved…. 30:4:15

Elsewhere we are told the human mind doesn’t survive, and identity is lodged in the Angel’s care. Confused.

The first quote is not talking about material mind.  It’s talking about morontia mind, the mid-mind, i.e. the soul.  I know if Scott where here he’d have a cow about now, but it is true that the soul is actively minded until death; after death it is only passively minded.  Please don’t forget about the Holy Spirit, the supermind of the soul.  I spent so much time on that mini-book and explaining it on this forum, I’ll get really sad if you forget.  Also, don’t forget that the midwayers call the soul the mid-mind.  The angels are the keepers of the morontia mid-mind, the soul, because they are descendant from the creator of mind, daughters of the Creative Spirit and capable of cradling the superminded embryo we call the soul.

36:5.15 With the appearance of the spiritual response of the creature intellect, such created minds at once become superminded, being instantly encircuited in the spirit cycles of the local universe Mother Spirit. 

111.2.8  The midway creatures have long denominated this evolving soul of man the mid-mind in contradistinction to the lower or material mind and the higher or cosmic mind. This mid-mind is really a morontia phenomenon since it exists in the realm between the material and the spiritual. The potential of such a morontia evolution is inherent in the two universal urges of mind: the impulse of the finite mind of the creature to know God and attain the divinity of the Creator, and the impulse of the infinite mind of the Creator to know man and attain the experience of the creature.

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[Keryn]

Bonita wrote:

Rick, thanks for clearing that up. I suffer from an overactive reality attention disorder, so when I encounter things that don’t seem real, I get confused. I am under the impression that many, many people believe that in “heaven” they will run into everyone they know who has passed on, including their pets. I’m quite sure that is not so. If I’m lucky enough to go on the third day, I have no hope of running into some of my acquaintances who have passed on until after the next dispensation. And I’m hoping that I’m well out of the mansion world environment before my ex-husband gets there. Just joking . . . . no really.

Bonita, I agree with you that we will not ‘run into’ everyone we know who has passed on.  However,  my interpretation of the quote below is that, if we wish to, we are allowed to seek out and visit those who have passed on, during certain periods of leisure time while on the Mansion Worlds (including Mansion World number one).  Of course, that only applies to those who are not among the ‘sleeping survivors’ but any of our loved ones who went immediately to the resurrection halls upon their earthly death.

^{47:3.6 (533.4)} From the resurrection halls you proceed to the Melchizedek sector, where you are assigned permanent residence. Then you enter upon ten days of personal liberty. You are free to explore the immediate vicinity of your new home and to familiarize yourself with the program which lies immediately ahead. You also have time to gratify your desire to consult the registry and call upon your loved ones and other earth friends who may have preceded you to these worlds. At the end of your ten-day period of leisure you begin the second step in the Paradise journey, for the mansion worlds are actual training spheres, not merely detention planets.

[Author]

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