RESURRECTION HALL – Redux

Home Forums Urantia Book General Discussions RESURRECTION HALL – Redux

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 152 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #22509
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Dear Forum Friends,

    Some of you gave an assist seven years ago, critiquing my short story about awakening on Mansonia according to facts given in the Urantia Book (on UAI’s old Forum). It had some major flaws, and I am very grateful for the feedback that came.

    The story sat for a long time, now it is being represented here on our new Forum, but well nigh completely overhauled. I was hoping you would have a read of the intro (first thee pages), and reply if it at all rings your plausible bell, if it has omissions or grossly inaccurate injections. I plan to begin publishing it serially (a page every day or so) on this and other Forums starting the 26th, but wanted to post it here first, for a trial run, before this august and discerning group of reader/believers.

    It’s posted in the “Inspiration” Sub-forum: http://urantia-association.org/forums/topic/resurrection-hall/

    Thank you! Rick

    Richard E Warren

    #22517
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant

    It’s posted in the “Inspiration” Sub-forum: http://urantia-association.org/forums/topic/resurrection-hall/

    I’m so glad to hear from you! You’ve been busy writing! How wonderful. You’ve been on my mind a lot.

    I love your story.  It gave me goose-bumps.  Thanks so much!

     

    #22522
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    I’m so glad to hear from you! You’ve been busy writing! How wonderful. You’ve been on my mind a lot. I love your story. It gave me goose-bumps. Thanks so much!

    Goose-bumps! High praise for a fiction writer. And you’re most welcome, thanks for commenting. Very happy that you loved it. Good to be posting here again.

    /

    Richard E Warren

    #22523
    Avatar
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Rick, I’m glade to see you active on the forum again.  I did have an opportunity to read what you presented; it took me a little time to get to my initial questions from when I started reading, which was the details around their death, and whether this was a death from old age, at the end of normal life or an unexpected or a premature death.  From my understand and some experience, there would be at least two different processes which may occur, therefore I was not sure of which one until I read on.  Basically what I’m saying is that you may wish to present a cause and some history towards the beginning to better set the seen, so to speck.  This way, depending on the overall story line and conclusion, drop bits and pieces in to present question in the mind to insight further reading.  That is assuming that there is more to the story as I understood from above.

    Nice to have you back.

     

    #22529
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Rick, I’m glade to see you active on the forum again. I did have an opportunity to read what you presented; it took me a little time to get to my initial questions from when I started reading, which was the details around their death, and whether this was a death from old age, at the end of normal life or an unexpected or a premature death. From my understand and some experience, there would be at least two different processes which may occur, therefore I was not sure of which one until I read on. Basically what I’m saying is that you may wish to present a cause and some history towards the beginning to better set the seen, so to speck. This way, depending on the overall story line and conclusion, drop bits and pieces in to present question in the mind to insight further reading. That is assuming that there is more to the story as I understood from above. Nice to have you back.

    Appreciate the feedback and thoughtful advice. Yes, this is only the beginning, hopefully. Really enjoying delving into the marvelous details about ‘the afterlife’ we were gifted in Papers 47 and 48.

    .

    Richard E Warren

    #22540
    Avatar
    chucksmith1982
    Participant

    Heres’ an idea. Do a story from the point of view of, say, an ultra conservative, bible literally minded, fundamentalist Christian who has never heard of the UB. What would their impressions be like? How would they choose when the truth was presented to them? Would they embrace it and survive or reject it and choose suicide? I think that a lot of people are going/have been surprised at what is actually in store for them that has very little resembalance to what they were taught in this life from the religions of this world.

    #22541
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    Heres’ an idea. Do a story from the point of view of, say, an ultra conservative, bible literally minded, fundamentalist Christian who has never heard of the UB. What would their impressions be like? How would they choose when the truth was presented to them? Would they embrace it and survive or reject it and choose suicide? I think that a lot of people are going/have been surprised at what is actually in store for them that has very little resembalance to what they were taught in this life from the religions of this world.

     

    We are thinking along the same lines, Chuck. Seems like the protagonists must needs be crossing paths with many, many, and diverse beings on Mansonia. And since they were lifelong readers, who better to help assist and enlighten their fellow resurrectees? Thx~

     

    .

    Richard E Warren

    #22542
    Van Amadon
    Van Amadon
    Participant

    I think that a lot of people are going/have been surprised at what is actually in store for them that has very little resembalance to what they were taught in this life from the religions of this world.

    Do you think it’s a dreadful surprise, or surprisingly relieving?

     

     

    #22543
    Avatar
    nelsong
    Participant

    My family are all Mormon dating back to the mid 1800’s the great grandparents did the walk across the country with their leader Joseph Smith and settled in southern Utah and parts of Idaho.

    No matter how straight forward or clever or many other approaches Iv tried we cannot converse religion outside of the context of the King James Bible or the Book of Mormon or the Pearl of Great Price. I am the outsider, the jack mormon – a real certified Mormon that don’t do the required things – its always set me aside as less than one of them.

    But we have that belief in common with eternal life as expectations and that is what I try to focus on, because that belief is what really counts. They have rules and rituals that make it happen and I have the personal challenge of learning to do Gods Will.

    I think we will all be supriesd and delighted that that faith in common that gets us there.

    face it, I believe that we can tell the world our faith is 100% and unshakable and Im likely the odd one of the bunch who has those doubts that happen to me occasionally but the realization of survival will be the most awsome experience for everyone – a surprise? Id say yes but maybe divided up by degree.

    Mansonia is not flesh and blood physical so any description no matter how much effort is put into it will fall short of the actual experience.

    #22544
    Van Amadon
    Van Amadon
    Participant

    Mansonia is not flesh and blood physical so any description no matter how much effort is put into it will fall short of the actual experience.

    After the life in the flesh, time is no longer available as a technique of dodging situations or of circumventing disagreeable obligations.
    The experience of dodging now for what we think is available to do in the afterlife, could be an enormous error.
    Now is the time for Actual Experience, not later.
    #22545
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant

    Heres’ an idea. Do a story from the point of view of, say, an ultra conservative, bible literally minded, fundamentalist Christian who has never heard of the UB. What would their impressions be like? How would they choose when the truth was presented to them? Would they embrace it and survive or reject it and choose suicide? I think that a lot of people are going/have been surprised at what is actually in store for them that has very little resembalance to what they were taught in this life from the religions of this world.

    Erroneous ideas do not survive into the next life because they are not real.  The soul reflects only real accomplishments made by the personality.  Inaccurate, false, incorrect, mistaken ideas do not survive.  How could they?  They perish along with the adjutant mind which invented them.

    #22547
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant

    …Mansonia is not flesh and blood physical so any description no matter how much effort is put into it will fall short of the actual experience.

    Well stated nelsong. And I’ve struggled with this. What is a morontia body like? There must be a kind of morontia flesh and bone, a semi-physical substance.

    …Paul learned of the existence of the morontia worlds and of the reality of morontia materials, for he wrote, “They have in heaven a better and more enduring substance.” And these morontia materials are real, literal, even as in “the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.” 48:1:7

     

    We are informed our future bodies can be injured:

     
    …These personality forms, while exempt from the ordinary diseases of the realms, are, like the early morontia bodies, subject to certain accidents of a mechanical nature…. 50:3:3
     .
    So, they must have nerve networks, breathing organs, circulatory systems, and of course two hands, feet, eyes, ears, and one head. The more I read about morontia life, the more I get the idea of a superbody. Everything is improved, all senses sharper, broader, more meaningful.
     .
    Kala and Saro are going to look over their bodies at the end of day one. Wish me insight, please!
    .

    Richard E Warren

    #22548
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant
    Bonita wrote: Erroneous ideas do not survive into the next life because they are not real. The soul reflects only real accomplishments made by the personality. Inaccurate, false, incorrect, mistaken ideas do not survive. How could they? They perish along with the adjutant mind which invented them.

    Hmm…They must Bonita. We are not resurrected as perfect souls on Mansonia, we are not born beings of only pure spirit value (the soul’s substance). If we were, there would be nothing in us left to rehabilitate, no?

    …These are the detention planets, where those mortals who fail to achieve fusion with their indwelling Adjusters during the life in the flesh are rehabilitated in transient form to receive further help and to enjoy extended opportunity for continuing their strivings for spiritual attainment, those very efforts which were prematurely interrupted by death…. 45:7:1
    .

    …One of the purposes of the morontia career is to effect the permanent eradication from the mortal survivors of such animal vestigial traits as procrastination, equivocation, insincerity, problem avoidance, unfairness, and ease seeking. The mansonia life early teaches the young morontia pupils that postponement is in no sense avoidance. After the life in the flesh, time is no longer available as a technique of dodging situations or of circumventing disagreeable obligations…. (551.3) 48:5.8

    .

    Repeatedly they tell us nothing is gained nor lost in mortal death. We start over there just where we left off here. If only our worthy values survived, what is left to fix?

    .

    I suspect we will have the same level of understanding and the same measure of faith when we resurrect. Relationships will attain to the level they were when we died, acquired skills and innate talents will follow us. Recall this line?


    What magic could death, the natural dissolution of the material body, hold that such a simple step should instantly transform the mortal and material mind into an immortal and perfected spirit? 48:0:2
     .
    Also, we are given this, about spirit fusers, which offers deep insight into the resurrection of Adjuster fusers like us:
     .
    …There is, however, one particular in which Spirit-fused mortals differ from their ascendant brethren: Mortal memory of human experience on the material worlds of origin survives death in the flesh because the indwelling Adjuster has acquired a spirit counterpart, or transcript, of those events of human life which were of spiritual significance. But with Spirit-fused mortals there exists no such mechanism whereby human memory may persist. The Adjuster transcripts of memory are full and intact, but these acquisitions are experiential possessions of the departed Adjusters and are not available to the creatures of their former indwelling, who therefore awaken in the resurrection halls of the morontia spheres of Nebadon as if they were newly created beings, creatures without consciousness of former existence. 40:9:4
    .
    Thanks much for the comment, any other reflections.
    .
    .

    Richard E Warren

    #22550
    Bonita
    Bonita
    Participant
    Rick Warren wrote: Hmm…They must Bonita. We are not resurrected as perfect souls on Mansonia, we are not born beings of only pure spirit value (the soul’s substance). If we were, there would be nothing in us left to rehabilitate, no?

    I disagree.  Erroneous and false ideas cannot survive.  Only that which has spiritual value survives.  What needs to be rehabilitated is the character.  It’s the habits and idiosyncrasies of character, certain attitudes toward reality, that must change and grow.  A character which persistently procrastinates or refuses to take the necessary steps to learn and grow, a character which remains self-centered and stubborn needs loving encouragement to progress.

    All the stuff that makes up the material mind, all the fears, anxieties, preconceptions, prejudices and egotistical, inaccurate, immature ideas that are resident within the material mind, perish along with it.  They have no spiritual value and will not continue.  The soul consists only of value.  That which is value is attained by the soul by overcoming evil with good.  Only the good remains in the soul.  Memory of the struggles which resulted in victory of good over evil will remain with the Adjuster, but that is because such struggles result in changing the character, making it more Godlike, due to the triumph of choosing truth, beauty and goodness when given lesser options.  It is that changed character which is the substance of the soul. The substance of the soul does not consist in memories.  The substance, or matrix, of the soul is a transformed character.  The memory of the transformation experience belongs to the Adjuster which he shares with the soul upon resurrection.  The Adjuster does not bring erroneous, faulty memories; he brings memories of victories over evil.  Our memories after death are spiritized, therefore they cannot be unreal.  Unreal and unspiritized thoughts which existed as part of the life in the flesh do not survive.  On the mansion worlds we will only be conscious of worthwhile memories, those with value.  Memories of prejudice and intolerance, memories based on falsehood do not have value.

    40:9.4 There is, however, one particular in which Spirit-fused mortals differ from their ascendant brethren: Mortal memory of human experience on the material worlds of origin survives death in the flesh because the indwelling Adjuster has acquired a spirit counterpart, or transcript, of those events of human life which were of spiritual significance. But with Spirit-fused mortals there exists no such mechanism whereby human memory may persist. The Adjuster transcripts of memory are full and intact, but these acquisitions are experiential possessions of the departed Adjusters and are not available to the creatures of their former indwelling, who therefore awaken in the resurrection halls of the morontia spheres of Nebadon as if they were newly created beings, creatures without consciousness of former existence.

    47:3.3 The mortal-mind transcripts and the active creature-memory patterns as transformed from the material levels to the spiritual are the individual possession of the detached Thought Adjusters; these spiritized factors of mind, memory, and creature personality are forever a part of such Adjusters. The creature mind-matrix and the passive potentials of identity are present in the morontia soul intrusted to the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardians. And it is the reuniting of the morontia-soul trust of the seraphim and the spirit-mind trust of the Adjuster that reassembles creature personality and constitutes resurrection of a sleeping survivor.

    47:4.5 Your Adjuster memory remains fully intact as you ascend the morontia life. Those mental associations that were purely animalistic and wholly material naturally perished with the physical brain, but everything in your mental life which was worth while, and which had survival value, was counterparted by the Adjuster and is retained as a part of personal memory all the way through the ascendant career. You will be conscious of all your worth-while experiences as you advance from one mansion world to another and from one section of the universe to another — even to Paradise.

    Rick Warren wrote: Repeatedly they tell us nothing is gained nor lost in mortal death. We start over there just where we left off here. If only our worthy values survived, what is left to fix?

    What needs to be fixed is focus.  The ascension career is about socializing the personality, so the focus must shift to include service of others and sharing of self.  Don’t forget that immaturity is evil, as is imperfection.  Anything short of perfection is evil and needs perfecting.  We can only perfect within our level of consciousness because we can only choose between two or more things we are aware of.  We cannot choose something we don’t know exists.  When we reach the mansion worlds we will have entered into a new level of consciousness, morontia consciousness.  There will be brand new morontia ideas (mota) to choose from.  Each choice will either move us closer to reality or farther from reality, the same way it does here.  The habits we have here are part of our character and our character grows, it perfects.  Our habits in the next life are also part of our character which is attempting to perfect, become more divine.  The goal is divinity attainment, shedding immature habits for mature ones, learning to recognize value over non-value and developing the courage to choose it.

    34:3.8 One is free to choose and act only within the realm of one’s consciousness.

    The soul has desires and motivations to know and experience God.  The soul craves experience with reality because it provides the seeds of growth.  With a new level of consciousness, the soul will continue to have desires and ambitions consistent with its character.  New choices will become apparent with this new level of consciousness, hence new opportunities for character growth.  The desire to excel and become better is an innate character trait of perfecting personalities who strive to know God and become more like him.

    44:8.4 But every human being should remember: Many ambitions to excel which tantalize mortals in the flesh will not persist with these same mortals in the morontia and spirit careers. The ascending morontians learn to socialize their former purely selfish longings and egoistic ambitions. Nevertheless, those things which you so earnestly longed to do on earth and which circumstances so persistently denied you, if, after acquiring true mota insight in the morontia career, you still desire to do, then will you most certainly be granted every opportunity fully to satisfy your long-cherished desires.

    When they say we start out in the next life where we left off here, they are talking about the soul and progress in the psychic circles.  The material mind is left behind; it no longer exists. On the mansion worlds we function on a morontia level of consciousness.  The morontia soul survives because it is made up of value actualizations accomplished by a personality whose character is slowly becoming more divine.  It’s all about transformation of the character of the personality.  That’s what the psychic, or cosmic circles are all about, becoming more divine.  The soul must continue to grow toward fusion, even after material death.  In order to write about the mansion worlds, you must have a clear idea of what the morontia soul is, how it lives and thinks, what it is conscious of, what it desires and where it is going.

    110:6.16 Perhaps these psychic circles of mortal progression would be better denominated cosmic levels — actual meaning grasps and value realizations of progressive approach to the morontia consciousness of initial relationship of the evolutionary soul with the emerging Supreme Being. And it is this very relationship that makes it forever impossible fully to explain the significance of the cosmic circles to the material mind.

    Rick Warren wrote: Relationships will attain to the level they were when we died, acquired skills and innate talents will follow us. Recall this line? …What magic could death, the natural dissolution of the material body, hold that such a simple step should instantly transform the mortal and material mind into an immortal and perfected spirit? 48:0:2

    What they are trying to explain there is that because the material mind does not make it to the morontia level of the mansion worlds, it cannot be transformed at all, there is no magic that can do that.  Earth is where the mortal, material mind gets transformed and that transformation results in the soul.  The soul is a phase of perfected reality which will continue to go on perfecting on the mansion worlds.  What they’re saying is that the process of perfecting is not a single magical step which is what many religions teach.

    Rick Warren wrote: Also, we are given this, about spirit fusers, which offers deep insight into the resurrection of Adjuster fusers like us:  . …There is, however, one particular in which Spirit-fused mortals differ from their ascendant brethren: Mortal memory of human experience on the material worlds of origin survives death in the flesh because the indwelling Adjuster has acquired a spirit counterpart, or transcript, of those events of human life which were of spiritual significance. But with Spirit-fused mortals there exists no such mechanism whereby human memory may persist. The Adjuster transcripts of memory are full and intact, but these acquisitions are experiential possessions of the departed Adjusters and are not available to the creatures of their former indwelling, who therefore awaken in the resurrection halls of the morontia spheres of Nebadon as if they were newly created beings, creatures without consciousness of former existence.… 40:9:4

    Exactly!! The quote is proof that without the spiritized thoughts of the Adjuster, none of our erroneous thoughts persist in the next world.  Without the Adjuster, we would wake with a clean slate, no memories at all.  If  crazy, mixed-up ideas from the material mind persist in the next life, then Spirit-fused survivors would have them, wouldn’t they?  They don’t have those memories because only memories with spirit value survive, and they only survive in the Adjuster.  Thinking from our earth-life that has no value will perish . . . poof! gone!  Only memories and thoughts which have spiritual significance can survive within the soul.

    #22551
    Richard E Warren
    Richard E Warren
    Participant
    Rick Warren wrote: Hmm…They must Bonita. We are not resurrected as perfect souls on Mansonia, we are not born beings of only pure spirit value (the soul’s substance). If we were, there would be nothing in us left to rehabilitate, no?

    I disagree. Erroneous and false ideas cannot survive. Only that which has spiritual value survives. What needs to be rehabilitated is the character. It’s the habits and idiosyncrasies of character, certain attitudes toward reality, that must change and grow. A character which persistently procrastinates or refuses to take the necessary steps to learn and grow, a character which remains self-centered and stubborn needs loving encouragement to progress. All the stuff that makes up the material mind, all the fears, anxieties, preconceptions, prejudices and egotistical, inaccurate, immature ideas that are resident within the material mind, perish along with it. They have no spiritual value and will not continue. The soul consists only of value. That which is value is attained by the soul by overcoming evil with good. Only the good remains in the soul. Memory of the struggles which resulted in victory of good over evil will remain with the Adjuster, but that is because such struggles result in changing the character, making it more Godlike, due to the triumph of choosing truth, beauty and goodness when given lesser options. It is that changed character which is the substance of the soul. The substance of the soul does not consist in memories. The substance, or matrix, of the soul is a transformed character. The memory of the transformation experience belongs to the Adjuster which he shares with the soul upon resurrection. The Adjuster does not bring erroneous, faulty memories; he brings memories of victories over evil. Our memories after death are spiritized, therefore they cannot be unreal. Unreal and unspiritized thoughts which existed as part of the life in the flesh do not survive. On the mansion worlds we will only be conscious of worthwhile memories, those with value. Memories of prejudice and intolerance, memories based on falsehood do not have value.

    40:9.4 There is, however, one particular in which Spirit-fused mortals differ from their ascendant brethren: Mortal memory of human experience on the material worlds of origin survives death in the flesh because the indwelling Adjuster has acquired a spirit counterpart, or transcript, of those events of human life which were of spiritual significance. But with Spirit-fused mortals there exists no such mechanism whereby human memory may persist. The Adjuster transcripts of memory are full and intact, but these acquisitions are experiential possessions of the departed Adjusters and are not available to the creatures of their former indwelling, who therefore awaken in the resurrection halls of the morontia spheres of Nebadon as if they were newly created beings, creatures without consciousness of former existence. 47:3.3 The mortal-mind transcripts and the active creature-memory patterns as transformed from the material levels to the spiritual are the individual possession of the detached Thought Adjusters; these spiritized factors of mind, memory, and creature personality are forever a part of such Adjusters. The creature mind-matrix and the passive potentials of identity are present in the morontia soul intrusted to the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardians. And it is the reuniting of the morontia-soul trust of the seraphim and the spirit-mind trust of the Adjuster that reassembles creature personality and constitutes resurrection of a sleeping survivor. 47:4.5 Your Adjuster memory remains fully intact as you ascend the morontia life. Those mental associations that were purely animalistic and wholly material naturally perished with the physical brain, but everything in your mental life which was worth while, and which had survival value, was counterparted by the Adjuster and is retained as a part of personal memory all the way through the ascendant career. You will be conscious of all your worth-while experiences as you advance from one mansion world to another and from one section of the universe to another — even to Paradise.

    Rick Warren wrote: Repeatedly they tell us nothing is gained nor lost in mortal death. We start over there just where we left off here. If only our worthy values survived, what is left to fix?

    What needs to be fixed is focus. The ascension career is about socializing the personality, so the focus must shift to include service of others and sharing of self. Don’t forget that immaturity is evil, as is imperfection. Anything short of perfection is evil and needs perfecting. We can only perfect within our level of consciousness because we can only choose between two or more things we are aware of. We cannot choose something we don’t know exists. When we reach the mansion worlds we will have entered into a new level of consciousness, morontia consciousness. There will be brand new morontia ideas (mota) to choose from. Each choice will either move us closer to reality or farther from reality, the same way it does here. The habits we have here are part of our character and our character grows, it perfects. Our habits in the next life are also part of our character which is attempting to perfect, become more divine. The goal is divinity attainment, shedding immature habits for mature ones, learning to recognize value over non-value and developing the courage to choose it.

    34:3.8 One is free to choose and act only within the realm of one’s consciousness.

    The soul has desires and motivations to know and experience God. The soul craves experience with reality because it provides the seeds of growth. With a new level of consciousness, the soul will continue to have desires and ambitions consistent with its character. New choices will become apparent with this new level of consciousness, hence new opportunities for character growth. The desire to excel and become better is an innate character trait of perfecting personalities who strive to know God and become more like him.

    44:8.4 But every human being should remember: Many ambitions to excel which tantalize mortals in the flesh will not persist with these same mortals in the morontia and spirit careers. The ascending morontians learn to socialize their former purely selfish longings and egoistic ambitions. Nevertheless, those things which you so earnestly longed to do on earth and which circumstances so persistently denied you, if, after acquiring true mota insight in the morontia career, you still desire to do, then will you most certainly be granted every opportunity fully to satisfy your long-cherished desires.

    When they say we start out in the next life where we left off here, they are talking about the soul and progress in the psychic circles. The material mind is left behind; it no longer exists. On the mansion worlds we function on a morontia level of consciousness. The morontia soul survives because it is made up of value actualizations accomplished by a personality whose character is slowly becoming more divine. It’s all about transformation of the character of the personality. That’s what the psychic, or cosmic circles are all about, becoming more divine. The soul must continue to grow toward fusion, even after material death. In order to write about the mansion worlds, you must have a clear idea of what the morontia soul is, how it lives and thinks, what it is conscious of, what it desires and where it is going.

    110:6.16 Perhaps these psychic circles of mortal progression would be better denominated cosmic levels — actual meaning grasps and value realizations of progressive approach to the morontia consciousness of initial relationship of the evolutionary soul with the emerging Supreme Being. And it is this very relationship that makes it forever impossible fully to explain the significance of the cosmic circles to the material mind.

    Rick Warren wrote: Relationships will attain to the level they were when we died, acquired skills and innate talents will follow us. Recall this line? …What magic could death, the natural dissolution of the material body, hold that such a simple step should instantly transform the mortal and material mind into an immortal and perfected spirit? 48:0:2

    What they are trying to explain there is that because the material mind does not make it to the morontia level of the mansion worlds, it cannot be transformed at all, there is no magic that can do that. Earth is where the mortal, material mind gets transformed and that transformation results in the soul. The soul is a phase of perfected reality which will continue to go on perfecting on the mansion worlds. What they’re saying is that the process of perfecting is not a single magical step which is what many religions teach.

    Rick Warren wrote: Also, we are given this, about spirit fusers, which offers deep insight into the resurrection of Adjuster fusers like us: . …There is, however, one particular in which Spirit-fused mortals differ from their ascendant brethren: Mortal memory of human experience on the material worlds of origin survives death in the flesh because the indwelling Adjuster has acquired a spirit counterpart, or transcript, of those events of human life which were of spiritual significance. But with Spirit-fused mortals there exists no such mechanism whereby human memory may persist. The Adjuster transcripts of memory are full and intact, but these acquisitions are experiential possessions of the departed Adjusters and are not available to the creatures of their former indwelling, who therefore awaken in the resurrection halls of the morontia spheres of Nebadon as if they were newly created beings, creatures without consciousness of former existence.… 40:9:4

    Exactly!! The quote is proof that without the spiritized thoughts of the Adjuster, none of our erroneous thoughts persist in the next world. Without the Adjuster, we would wake with a clean slate, no memories at all. If crazy, mixed-up ideas from the material mind persist in the next life, then Spirit-fused survivors would have them, wouldn’t they? They don’t have those memories because only memories with spirit value survive, and they only survive in the Adjuster. Thinking from our earth-life that has no value will perish . . . poof! gone! Only memories and thoughts which have spiritual significance can survive within the soul.

    ***

     

    Thanks, hope you know your opinion is highly valued in this endeavor. We’ve each read the same material, and no one can dispute the substance of the soul is spirit value. But with the soul comes this Adjuster memory, and Adjuster memory has to include our relationships. Relations are quintessentially valuable. If we have no memory of the experiences that formed our former relations then they are indeed ‘scaffolding’. ‘We will know and be known…’ ‘we gain nor lose anything’, except a new body/mind. That’s my premise anyway.

    Personality is also part of the resurrection assembly. Is the personality fully fledged? What circle had the resurectee attained? What influence does personality unfoldment and circle attainment have on Adjuster mind matrix transfer? The beautiful experiences that our relations are built on must be in place for our kindred relations to exist, on our skills, our talents, our accumulated wisdom. As I see it, all these must survive in our whole person since they have spiritual value, or are essential to the process of value acquisition.

    In my opinion, if there were no erroneous thinking carrying over, rehabilitation would hardly be necessary. That’s more indicative of the Light and Life eras. If we are to leave our prejudices and intolerance here, intensive Mansion world training regimes would not be needed.

    Seems kinda interesting that we are both using the same quote to support our interpretations :-)

    …Mortal memory of human experience on the material worlds of origin survives death in the flesh because the indwelling Adjuster has acquired a spirit counterpart, or transcript, of those events of human life which were of spiritual significance…. 40:9:4

    We are disagreeing about what constitutes spiritual significance, eh?

     

    ***

    Richard E Warren

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 152 total)

Login to reply to this topic.

Not registered? Sign up here.