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PS – The Supreme is not merely potential and is actual, powerful, and a mighty influence on all of time and space today…another lie by he who calls himself the devil.
Bradly, not sure where this, your statement above came from, but I’m trying to find the reasoning behind it? maybe you could elaborate on this?
However, if we look at the UB references there are some literal uncertainties found that may explain what you indicate that “the UB says what it says and does not say what it does not.” As you re-posted the following UB quote:
(1292.1) 117:7.7 When mortal ascenders are admitted to the finaliter corps of Paradise, they take an oath to the Paradise Trinity, and in taking this oath of allegiance, they are thereby pledging eternal fidelity to God the Supreme, who is the Trinity as comprehended by all finite creature personalities. Subsequently, as the finaliter companies function throughout the evolving universes, they are solely amenable to the mandates of Paradise origin until the eventful times of the settling of local universes in light and life. As the new governmental organizations of these perfected creations begin to be reflective of the emerging sovereignty of the Supreme, we observe that the outlying finaliter companies then acknowledge the jurisdictional authority of such new governments. It appears that God the Supreme is evolving as the unifier of the evolutionary Corps of the Finality, but it is highly probable that the eternal destiny of these seven corps will be directed by the Supreme as a member of the Ultimate Trinity.
Now this passage does qualify the “Trinity” as indicated as being “the Paradise Trinity”, as “comprehended by all finite creatures personalities”, would imply some exclusion in that this statement excludes non-finite creature personalities, from this comprehension.
In the following second UB passage, it states what the “Supreme is not”, and states that “the Supreme is not the Paradise Trinity,” where how do you explain the so called contradiction if one were to literally read the UB? Although, in the first passage, it infers that the “Deity of Trinity origin” — “The Supreme Being”, that the trinity has one source, thereby, making the trinity somewhat, dependent on one Supreme being, where this would imply the reasoning behind having no beginning or end, and actualities are every changing. However, the UB also indicates that the true God, or Father, changes not?
(1270.10) 116:2.13 By the technique of mortal logic it might be inferred that the experiential reunification of the collective acts of the first three levels of God the Sevenfold would equivalate to the level of Paradise Deity, but such is not the case. Paradise Deity is existential Deity. The Supreme Creators, in their divine unity of power and personality, are constitutive and expressive of a new power potential of experiential Deity. And this power potential of experiential origin finds inevitable and inescapable union with the experiential Deity of Trinity origin — the Supreme Being.
(1270.11) 116:2.14 God the Supreme is not the Paradise Trinity, neither is he any one or all of those superuniverse Creators whose functional activities actually synthesize his evolving almighty power. God the Supreme, while of origin in the Trinity, becomes manifest to evolutionary creatures as a personality of power only through the co-ordinated functions of the first three levels of God the Sevenfold. The Almighty Supreme is now factualizing in time and space through the activities of the Supreme Creator Personalities, even as in eternity the Conjoint Actor flashed into being by the will of the Universal Father and the Eternal Son. These beings of the first three levels of God the Sevenfold are the very nature and source of the power of the Almighty Supreme; therefore must they ever accompany and sustain his administrative acts.
So, in one UB quote it indicates that the Paradise Trinity is the Supreme, although pre-qualified, and in another, it indicates that “the Supreme is not the Paradise Trinity”, also somewhat qualified as potential, and being potential, hypothetical? So, based on your previous statement that you learned “for myself what the book says and does not say”, what does “the book say” regarding the passages above, because as you say, the book also “does not say.” ? Or, are you getting your information from the “collective”?
Interesting seemingly contradictory revelations, Midi. Do you think perhaps there are two revelators with different points of view of God The Supreme reported in the below?(1292.1) 117:7.7 When mortal ascenders are admitted to the finaliter corps of Paradise, they take an oath to the Paradise Trinity, and in taking this oath of allegiance, they are thereby pledging eternal fidelity to God the Supreme, who is the Trinity as comprehended by all finite creature personalities. Subsequently, as the finaliter companies function throughout the evolving universes, they are solely amenable to the mandates of Paradise origin until the eventful times of the settling of local universes in light and life. As the new governmental organizations of these perfected creations begin to be reflective of the emerging sovereignty of the Supreme, we observe that the outlying finaliter companies then acknowledge the jurisdictional authority of such new governments. It appears that God the Supreme is evolving as the unifier of the evolutionary Corps of the Finality, but it is highly probable that the eternal destiny of these seven corps will be directed by the Supreme as a member of the Ultimate Trinity.
Now this passage does qualify the “Trinity” as indicated as being “the Paradise Trinity”, as “comprehended by all finite creatures personalities”, would imply some exclusion in that this statement excludes non-finite creature personalities, from this comprehension. In the following second UB passage, it states what the “Supreme is not”, and states that “the Supreme is not the Paradise Trinity,” where how do you explain the so called contradiction if one were to literally read the UB? Although, in the first passage, it infers that the “Deity of Trinity origin” — “The Supreme Being”, that the trinity has one source, thereby, making the trinity somewhat, dependent on one Supreme being, where this would imply the reasoning behind having no beginning or end, and actualities are every changing. However, the UB also indicates that the true God, or Father, changes not?
(1270.10) 116:2.13 By the technique of mortal logic it might be inferred that the experiential reunification of the collective acts of the first three levels of God the Sevenfold would equivalate to the level of Paradise Deity, but such is not the case. Paradise Deity is existential Deity. The Supreme Creators, in their divine unity of power and personality, are constitutive and expressive of a new power potential of experiential Deity. And this power potential of experiential origin finds inevitable and inescapable union with the experiential Deity of Trinity origin — the Supreme Being. (1270.11) 116:2.14 God the Supreme is not the Paradise Trinity, neither is he any one or all of those superuniverse Creators whose functional activities actually synthesize his evolving almighty power. God the Supreme, while of origin in the Trinity, becomes manifest to evolutionary creatures as a personality of power only through the co-ordinated functions of the first three levels of God the Sevenfold. The Almighty Supreme is now factualizing in time and space through the activities of the Supreme Creator Personalities, even as in eternity the Conjoint Actor flashed into being by the will of the Universal Father and the Eternal Son. These beings of the first three levels of God the Sevenfold are the very nature and source of the power of the Almighty Supreme; therefore must they ever accompany and sustain his administrative acts.
So, in one UB quote it indicates that the Paradise Trinity is the Supreme, although pre-qualified, and in another, it indicates that “the Supreme is not the Paradise Trinity”, also somewhat qualified as potential, and being potential, hypothetical? So, based on your previous statement that you learned “for myself what the book says and does not say”, what does “the book say” regarding the passages above, because as you say, the book also “does not say.” ? Or, are you getting your information from the “collective”?
BB
Hi Midi – regarding “this unseen Father” (603.4, 53:3.3), the Father was “unseen” only in Lucifer’s experience. Recall that, as a Lanonandek, Lucifer was one of Michael’s youngest and most fragile babies. A real problem faced by such precocious Lanonandeks (“the Lanonandek dilemma”) is that their minds are tuned to perform as administrators in the context of a local system. Not having any experience of the transcendental domains of the central universe, let alone Paradise, Lucifer — like all his fellow Local Universe Sons — had to take the truth-fact of the Paradise Father… on faith.
As the story goes, Lucifer slowly and steadily lost the willingness, then the capacity, to do this.
Nigel
Midi, you know, a few years back, either on this forum or the other, I drew parallels between the story of Lucifer of Cagliari and Lucifer of Satania, right down to the pamphlets and manifesto, and play on words like Sardinia – Satania and Cagliaria – Caligastia. I even toyed with the possibility that the Revelators took that history and tweaked it to what has been delivered in UB. I was even thinking of doing some research into the architecture of the Vatican and its hierarchy to compare with the Heavenly administrations and architectural bodies reported in TUB. I put it on the backburner. Perhaps one day I will pick up where I left off.
Yes BB, since I have an eidetic memory, I recalled your original post on the other forum where you made the implication of this association. It is because of that, that I mentioned it again on this form, and in this topic. However, your implication that the authors of the UB used that Earth history, in order to assimilate that into the UB, may be reversed, where in that if it were not for Jesus’ incarnation and teachings, those event would not have occurred, and from my initial research into “Lucifer of Cagliari”, it seemed to be a precursor to the events which followed, over many centuries, culmination, in what the UB has indicated as “The European Dark Ages” (195:4.0), whereas I had found in the UB, which placed a time-line to what was written in the Biblical, Book of Revelation (Chapter 20), to what it indicated as the fall of Satan, or Lucifer/Satan, in that many of the characters presented in the UB, are associated as a duality somehow linked, and the mention in Rev:20.7, “And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,”; In that no beginning time to the imprisonment was mentioned in the Bible, but mentioned in the UB, which would place that time around the time of the “Dark Age” on Earth as instigated through or by the Church of that time. So, it would seem that since many things repeat themselves, and that it has been mentioned “as above, so below”, or as it is/or was, in Heaven, so shall it be on Earth.
The following UB section somewhat summaries those times of the Dark Age, but the time associated to Lucifer of Cagliari, was when Christianity took a definite form through the many aggregates believing in Jesus, yet not able to agree on their practice of a religion either of or about Jesus.
4. The European Dark Ages
(2074.7) 195:4.1 The church, being an adjunct to society and the ally of politics, was doomed to share in the intellectual and spiritual decline of the so-called European “dark ages.” During this time, religion became more and more monasticized, asceticized, and legalized. In a spiritual sense, Christianity was hibernating. Throughout this period there existed, alongside this slumbering and secularized religion, a continuous stream of mysticism, a fantastic spiritual experience bordering on unreality and philosophically akin to pantheism.
(2074.8) 195:4.2 During these dark and despairing centuries, religion became virtually secondhanded again. The individual was almost lost before the overshadowing authority, tradition, and dictation of the church. A new spiritual menace arose in the creation of a galaxy of “saints” who were assumed to have special influence at the divine courts, and who, therefore, if effectively appealed to, would be able to intercede in man’s behalf before the Gods.
(2075.1) 195:4.3 But Christianity was sufficiently socialized and paganized that, while it was impotent to stay the oncoming dark ages, it was the better prepared to survive this long period of moral darkness and spiritual stagnation. And it did persist on through the long night of Western civilization and was still functioning as a moral influence in the world when the renaissance dawned. The rehabilitation of Christianity, following the passing of the dark ages, resulted in bringing into existence numerous sects of the Christian teachings, beliefs suited to special intellectual, emotional, and spiritual types of human personality. And many of these special Christian groups, or religious families, still persist at the time of the making of this presentation.
(2075.2) 195:4.4 Christianity exhibits a history of having originated out of the unintended transformation of the religion of Jesus into a religion about Jesus. It further presents the history of having experienced Hellenization, paganization, secularization, institutionalization, intellectual deterioration, spiritual decadence, moral hibernation, threatened extinction, later rejuvenation, fragmentation, and more recent relative rehabilitation. Such a pedigree is indicative of inherent vitality and the possession of vast recuperative resources. And this same Christianity is now present in the civilized world of Occidental peoples and stands face to face with a struggle for existence which is even more ominous than those eventful crises which have characterized its past battles for dominance.
(2075.3) 195:4.5 Religion is now confronted by the challenge of a new age of scientific minds and materialistic tendencies. In this gigantic struggle between the secular and the spiritual, the religion of Jesus will eventually triumph.
However, in the following UB section the authors propose a problem in these modern time which is associated to the previous section, or results thereof, and indicate there is a new problem with Christianity, and in its identification, how it might be handled.
5. The Modern Problem
(2075.4) 195:5.1 The twentieth century has brought new problems for Christianity and all other religions to solve. The higher a civilization climbs, the more necessitous becomes the duty to “seek first the realities of heaven” in all of man’s efforts to stabilize society and facilitate the solution of its material problems.
(2075.5) 195:5.2 Truth often becomes confusing and even misleading when it is dismembered, segregated, isolated, and too much analyzed. Living truth teaches the truth seeker aright only when it is embraced in wholeness and as a living spiritual reality, not as a fact of material science or an inspiration of intervening art.
(2075.6) 195:5.3 Religion is the revelation to man of his divine and eternal destiny. Religion is a purely personal and spiritual experience and must forever be distinguished from man’s other high forms of thought, such as:
(2075.7) 195:5.4 1. Man’s logical attitude toward the things of material reality.
(2075.8) 195:5.5 2. Man’s aesthetic appreciation of beauty contrasted with ugliness.
(2075.9) 195:5.6 3. Man’s ethical recognition of social obligations and political duty.
(2075.10) 195:5.7 4. Even man’s sense of human morality is not, in and of itself, religious.(2075.11) 195:5.8 Religion is designed to find those values in the universe which call forth faith, trust, and assurance; religion culminates in worship. Religion discovers for the soul those supreme values which are in contrast with the relative values discovered by the mind. Such superhuman insight can be had only through genuine religious experience.
(2075.12) 195:5.9 A lasting social system without a morality predicated on spiritual realities can no more be maintained than could the solar system without gravity.
(2076.1) 195:5.10 Do not try to satisfy the curiosity or gratify all the latent adventure surging within the soul in one short life in the flesh. Be patient! be not tempted to indulge in a lawless plunge into cheap and sordid adventure. Harness your energies and bridle your passions; be calm while you await the majestic unfolding of an endless career of progressive adventure and thrilling discovery.
(2076.2) 195:5.11 In confusion over man’s origin, do not lose sight of his eternal destiny. Forget not that Jesus loved even little children, and that he forever made clear the great worth of human personality.
(2076.3) 195:5.12 As you view the world, remember that the black patches of evil which you see are shown against a white background of ultimate good. You do not view merely white patches of good which show up miserably against a black background of evil.
(2076.4) 195:5.13 When there is so much good truth to publish and proclaim, why should men dwell so much upon the evil in the world just because it appears to be a fact? The beauties of the spiritual values of truth are more pleasurable and uplifting than is the phenomenon of evil.
(2076.5) 195:5.14 In religion, Jesus advocated and followed the method of experience, even as modern science pursues the technique of experiment. We find God through the leadings of spiritual insight, but we approach this insight of the soul through the love of the beautiful, the pursuit of truth, loyalty to duty, and the worship of divine goodness. But of all these values, love is the true guide to real insight.
Interesting seemingly contradictory revelations, Midi. Do you think perhaps there are two revelators with different points of view of God The Supreme reported in the below?
Even though I might present an argument for a contradiction, there really is none because of the different qualifying information presented. However, there is a distinct association to the Supreme being, where I believe I have identified its origin from within the plethora of individual statement made in the UB, but I would need to venture outside of the UB, to make my point. The bottom line as I see it and as associated in the UB with the identities and personalities of the Father and the Son, of the Trinity, that the Supreme is, in essence the personalization of the Mother, within the Trinity, or the Holy Spirit/Ghost, in order to form the creation of the universes.
In order to expand on this, I would not be able to present this, on this forum, only because some of the minuscule minds cannot get past the literal interpretation of the UB, and one must keep in mind that for the authors to come right out and present a literal presentation of these principles would change many minds, and cause additional strain on what is believed.
So let me see if I understand you correctly, Midi. The history of Lucifer of Cagliari is a reflection or parallels the celestial history of Lucifer of Satania; “the as above so below,” axiom, if you will. Correct? If so, I toyed around with the idea of parallelism between events in the Heavens and on Urantia. As I explained in a much earlier post on this forum, I suspect that events in the celestial sphere cascade into our material plane to express themselves in nearly identical but cruder form here on Earth. And this may have something to do with mechanics of reflectivity.Midi, you know, a few years back, either on this forum or the other, I drew parallels between the story of Lucifer of Cagliari and Lucifer of Satania, right down to the pamphlets and manifesto, and play on words like Sardinia – Satania and Cagliaria – Caligastia. I even toyed with the possibility that the Revelators took that history and tweaked it to what has been delivered in UB. I was even thinking of doing some research into the architecture of the Vatican and its hierarchy to compare with the Heavenly administrations and architectural bodies reported in TUB. I put it on the backburner. Perhaps one day I will pick up where I left off.
Yes BB, since I have an eidetic memory, I recalled your original post on the other forum where you made the implication of this association. It is because of that, that I mentioned it again on this form, and in this topic. However, your implication that the authors of the UB used that Earth history, in order to assimilate that into the UB, may be reversed, where in that if it were not for Jesus’ incarnation and teachings, those event would not have occurred, and from my initial research into “Lucifer of Cagliari”, it seemed to be a precursor to the events which followed, over many centuries, culmination, in what the UB has indicated as “The European Dark Ages” (195:4.0), whereas I had found in the UB, which placed a time-line to what was written in the Biblical, Book of Revelation (Chapter 20), to what it indicated as the fall of Satan, or Lucifer/Satan, in that many of the characters presented in the UB, are associated as a duality somehow linked, and the mention in Rev:20.7, “And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,”; In that no beginning time to the imprisonment was mentioned in the Bible, but mentioned in the UB, which would place that time around the time of the “Dark Age” on Earth as instigated through or by the Church of that time. So, it would seem that since many things repeat themselves, and that it has been mentioned “as above, so below”, or as it is/or was, in Heaven, so shall it be on Earth. The following UB section somewhat summaries those times of the Dark Age, but the time associated to Lucifer of Cagliari, was when Christianity took a definite form through the many aggregates believing in Jesus, yet not able to agree on their practice of a religion either for or about Jesus.
4. The European Dark Ages (2074.7) 195:4.1 The church, being an adjunct to society and the ally of politics, was doomed to share in the intellectual and spiritual decline of the so-called European “dark ages.” During this time, religion became more and more monasticized, asceticized, and legalized. In a spiritual sense, Christianity was hibernating. Throughout this period there existed, alongside this slumbering and secularized religion, a continuous stream of mysticism, a fantastic spiritual experience bordering on unreality and philosophically akin to pantheism. (2074.8) 195:4.2 During these dark and despairing centuries, religion became virtually secondhanded again. The individual was almost lost before the overshadowing authority, tradition, and dictation of the church. A new spiritual menace arose in the creation of a galaxy of “saints” who were assumed to have special influence at the divine courts, and who, therefore, if effectively appealed to, would be able to intercede in man’s behalf before the Gods. (2075.1) 195:4.3 But Christianity was sufficiently socialized and paganized that, while it was impotent to stay the oncoming dark ages, it was the better prepared to survive this long period of moral darkness and spiritual stagnation. And it did persist on through the long night of Western civilization and was still functioning as a moral influence in the world when the renaissance dawned. The rehabilitation of Christianity, following the passing of the dark ages, resulted in bringing into existence numerous sects of the Christian teachings, beliefs suited to special intellectual, emotional, and spiritual types of human personality. And many of these special Christian groups, or religious families, still persist at the time of the making of this presentation. (2075.2) 195:4.4 Christianity exhibits a history of having originated out of the unintended transformation of the religion of Jesus into a religion about Jesus. It further presents the history of having experienced Hellenization, paganization, secularization, institutionalization, intellectual deterioration, spiritual decadence, moral hibernation, threatened extinction, later rejuvenation, fragmentation, and more recent relative rehabilitation. Such a pedigree is indicative of inherent vitality and the possession of vast recuperative resources. And this same Christianity is now present in the civilized world of Occidental peoples and stands face to face with a struggle for existence which is even more ominous than those eventful crises which have characterized its past battles for dominance. (2075.3) 195:4.5 Religion is now confronted by the challenge of a new age of scientific minds and materialistic tendencies. In this gigantic struggle between the secular and the spiritual, the religion of Jesus will eventually triumph.
However, in the following UB section the authors propose a problem in these modern time which is associated to the previous section, or results thereof, and indicate there is a new problem with Christianity, and in its identification, how it might be handled.
5. The Modern Problem (2075.4) 195:5.1 The twentieth century has brought new problems for Christianity and all other religions to solve. The higher a civilization climbs, the more necessitous becomes the duty to “seek first the realities of heaven” in all of man’s efforts to stabilize society and facilitate the solution of its material problems. (2075.5) 195:5.2 Truth often becomes confusing and even misleading when it is dismembered, segregated, isolated, and too much analyzed. Living truth teaches the truth seeker aright only when it is embraced in wholeness and as a living spiritual reality, not as a fact of material science or an inspiration of intervening art. (2075.6) 195:5.3 Religion is the revelation to man of his divine and eternal destiny. Religion is a purely personal and spiritual experience and must forever be distinguished from man’s other high forms of thought, such as: (2075.7) 195:5.4 1. Man’s logical attitude toward the things of material reality. (2075.8) 195:5.5 2. Man’s aesthetic appreciation of beauty contrasted with ugliness. (2075.9) 195:5.6 3. Man’s ethical recognition of social obligations and political duty. (2075.10) 195:5.7 4. Even man’s sense of human morality is not, in and of itself, religious. (2075.11) 195:5.8 Religion is designed to find those values in the universe which call forth faith, trust, and assurance; religion culminates in worship. Religion discovers for the soul those supreme values which are in contrast with the relative values discovered by the mind. Such superhuman insight can be had only through genuine religious experience. (2075.12) 195:5.9 A lasting social system without a morality predicated on spiritual realities can no more be maintained than could the solar system without gravity. (2076.1) 195:5.10 Do not try to satisfy the curiosity or gratify all the latent adventure surging within the soul in one short life in the flesh. Be patient! be not tempted to indulge in a lawless plunge into cheap and sordid adventure. Harness your energies and bridle your passions; be calm while you await the majestic unfolding of an endless career of progressive adventure and thrilling discovery. (2076.2) 195:5.11 In confusion over man’s origin, do not lose sight of his eternal destiny. Forget not that Jesus loved even little children, and that he forever made clear the great worth of human personality. (2076.3) 195:5.12 As you view the world, remember that the black patches of evil which you see are shown against a white background of ultimate good. You do not view merely white patches of good which show up miserably against a black background of evil. (2076.4) 195:5.13 When there is so much good truth to publish and proclaim, why should men dwell so much upon the evil in the world just because it appears to be a fact? The beauties of the spiritual values of truth are more pleasurable and uplifting than is the phenomenon of evil. (2076.5) 195:5.14 In religion, Jesus advocated and followed the method of experience, even as modern science pursues the technique of experiment. We find God through the leadings of spiritual insight, but we approach this insight of the soul through the love of the beautiful, the pursuit of truth, loyalty to duty, and the worship of divine goodness. But of all these values, love is the true guide to real insight.
BB
So let me see if I understand you correctly, Midi. The history of Lucifer of Cagliari is a reflection or parallels the celestial history of Lucifer of Satania; “the as above so below,” axiom, if you will. Correct?
In order to answer your question, it would be necessary to present a better understanding of time, and its active components, where for many time is linear, in that from the present, the future is to be, and from the present the past was, or is. The human or material thinking of time would include a paradox effect, if one thinks about “the grandfather paradox”, where if one were to travel back in time, and their grandfather were removed from existence prior to procreating offspring, they would no longer exist, simultaneously changing the present from which that traveler came. However, when one thinks of eternity in a temporal sense it cannot be associated to a linear sequence, and is more so like all possible potential sequences, where the only reality is the present which is dependent on the future, what will be, or is. One cannot really know what will be unless they look at what was in the past, and if what was seems to have changed from what they remember in the present, it would validate that a paradox has occurred. In the UB it infers that the Ancient of Days, perform the final verdict of any judgment imposed, because they know what should be, or as close to what should be in order to get to what will be or is. One might think of this, not as a parallel or reflection of the past because free will in the present can be considered as chaotic unless, as indicated in the UB, one follows or does the will of the Father, where this can be associated with a more orderly cause and effect, and when followed becomes perfection. When one ventures off the path of doing the Father’s will, other adjustments would be necessary, in order to get back on the perfect path, which in essence, this constant motion seems to produce the affect that we associate with time.
So, as we look at history, and find new history that may assimilate the “as above, so below” axiom, we may also find a better understanding of what is “above” and is “below”, where both change, in order to fill in that which has been lost through material creation, and held only in spirit.
Hi Midi – regarding “this unseen Father” (603.4, 53:3.3), the Father was “unseen” only in Lucifer’s experience. Recall that, as a Lanonandek, Lucifer was one of Michael’s youngest and most fragile babies. A real problem faced by such precocious Lanonandeks (“the Lanonandek dilemma”) is that their minds are tuned to perform as administrators in the context of a local system. Not having any experience of the transcendental domains of the central universe, let alone Paradise, Lucifer — like all his fellow Local Universe Sons — had to take the truth-fact of the Paradise Father… on faith.
“Nigel Nunn”, you wrote above and put in quotation (“the Lanonandek dilemma”), where I don’t know where you sited this from. However, you state that Lucifer was one of the “youngest and most fragile”, also the following UB narration would indicate that he might have been one of the oldest?
(601.1) 53:0.1 LUCIFER was a brilliant primary Lanonandek Son of Nebadon. He had experienced service in many systems, had been a high counselor of his group, and was distinguished for wisdom, sagacity, and efficiency. Lucifer was number 37 of his order, and when commissioned by the Melchizedeks, he was designated as one of the one hundred most able and brilliant personalities in more than seven hundred thousand of his kind. From such a magnificent beginning, through evil and error, he embraced sin and now is numbered as one of three System Sovereigns in Nebadon who have succumbed to the urge of self and surrendered to the sophistry of spurious personal liberty — rejection of universe allegiance and disregard of fraternal obligations, blindness to cosmic relationships.
It would also indicate that his “sin” was to go against his oath, which would have been a requirement, for office, where upon his realization of additional information, he may have found it difficult to follow the mandates of the Most Highs? This would have been similar to the default of Adam and Eve, where their actions in them selves did not default them but that they went against the required oath, that they made to not go against the mandates imposed by the Most Highs. The universal Father did not mandate those laws held within the oath, but the constellation law makes who made up these laws, as they saw fit. Or, at least that’s how I read it in the UB.
So, would you take an oath, that may go against the bestowal of free will given by the Universal Father to all His creatures? Which also would mean that you also give up your own free will as well.
Hi Midi — have you forgotten the origin and nature of Lanonandeks?
Recall that they were the last of the local universe sons to be created by Michael and the Divine Mins. Given their relatively low level of creation (compared to their elder brothers, the Vorondadeks and Melchizedeks), and their variability in capacity, Lanonandeks were Michael’s only local universe children that needed to be evaluated and sorted before being assigned an appropriate career. The brightest (Primary Lanonandeks, 35:8.4) would go on to become System Sovereigns; the least bright (Tertiary Lanonandeks, 35:8.6) would serve as “assistants, messengers, custodians, …“.
To help set the scene, here are the first two paragraphs describing their origin and nature. (from Paper 35 section 8):
8. The Lanonandek Sons
(392.1) 35:8.1 After the creation of the Vorondadeks, the Creator Son and the Universe Mother Spirit unite for the purpose of bringing into existence the third order of universe sonship, the Lanonandeks. Although occupied with varied tasks connected with the system administrations, they are best known as System Sovereigns, the rulers of the local systems, and as Planetary Princes, the administrative heads of the inhabited worlds.
(392.2) 35:8.2 Being a later and lower — as concerns divinity levels — order of sonship creation, these beings were required to pass through certain courses of training on the Melchizedek worlds in preparation for subsequent service. They were the first students in the Melchizedek University and were classified and certified by their Melchizedek teachers and examiners according to ability, personality, and attainment.
Regarding the “the Lanonandek dilemma”, given your eidetic memory, I thought you’d recall my short paper of the same name. Please see the attached filie, LanonandekDilemma.pdf.
Regarding the issue of Lanonandeks in Nebadon, I’m sure you recall 35:9.8:
(393.8) 35:9.8 “[snip] On Uversa it is the consensus that we have had so much administrative trouble in Nebadon because our Sons of the Lanonandek order have been created with such a large degree of personal liberty in choosing and planning.”
Midi — please pause to consider the many BILLIONS of years Michael and his family of (local universe) sons and daughters spent as AS A FAMILY in Nebadon, before attempting “the phenomenon on man”. You may not yet realize the point of creating Nebadon?
(359.5, 32:2.8) “And then, when such a universe has been so completely organized and so repletely manned, does the Creator Son enter into the Father’s proposal to create mortal man in their divine image.”
Nigel
Here’s another way to look at deficits. Just for illustration, imagine the soul is a piece of fabric that is supposed to have every flower in the world woven into it in order to be complete. If a person dies with a piece of fabric with only a few dozen flowers on it, that person has a deficit. There are many reason why that can happen: a life too short, a life where not every flower was available, an inability to weave, or slowness of weaving, preoccupation with shiny objects, a dislike of flowers or weaving . . . there are zillions of reasons why that fabric arrived in the next life without all the flowers on it, but as long as some effort was put into weaving, then more time and more opportunities are given. Another way to look at deficits is comparing the soul to a plant. Some folks arrive on the mansion worlds with a full grown tree heavy with fruit. Some folks arrive with a tree and not so much fruit. Others arrive with a bush and some with a seedling. Surely the seedling is at a deficit, it needs more help than the full grown fruit-bearing tree, and it will get all the help it needs on the appropriate mansion world. Trying to think of other ways to illustrate deficit, but I have a deficit of things done . . . gotta long to-do list this weekend.
Lovely and useful parables Bonita, good metaphors for pointing out that it is absent or malformed character traits that make up the ‘mark of the beast,’ erroneous attitudes and negative ways of being. Impatience, ease-seeking, pride, selfishness, these are some of things that must be worked on and worked out of the mortal ascender. They are simply leftover animal tendencies that eventually burn up in the purifying fires of morontia life. We start out with DNA based character on Earth and evolve it to spirit based values of eternal sublimity On High, over time and thru experience, according to the authors. And I find it true, during life one animal trait after another falls away. Like chips from an emerging sculpture (Adjuster as hammer, personal will as chisel), once removed the real self emerges as one entity, beautiful and divine. Even perfect, after much polishing.
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Richard E Warren
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Interesting seemingly contradictory revelations, Midi. Do you think perhaps there are two revelators with different points of view of God The Supreme reported in the below?
BB – it is obvious you are here on a quest for contradiction rather than understanding. You will remain disappointed in the first as in my own search for 3-4 readings for such and in my 40 years of study after I have found none and no one has ever pointed out one that proved to be more than a lack of study, reading comprehension, and understanding of plain English. I can only surmise that you are either determined to disbelieve or you are on the verge of coming to accept that the author’s claims are true, if only (like me) because the alternatives are even more impossible. Here’s hoping it’s the latter. So far, by your many recent posts and topics here, you have failed completely to offer us a single contradiction, merely illustrated your lust for this quest and demonstrating a personal lack of comprehension.
Unfortunately, you have met and now eagerly follow the King of Contradictions whose purpose here is pure distortion and purposeful deceit. You make quite a pair. A brain trust, no. More like a pair of comedians feeding each other lines. Farce. The Big Brain and the Wanna Be Debunker. I cannot tell if it would be funny if it were not so sad or if it would be sad if not so funny. Either way it is what it is.
Bradly wrote: PS – The Supreme is not merely potential and is actual, powerful, and a mighty influence on all of time and space today…another lie by he who calls himself the devil. Bradly, not sure where this, your statement above came from, but I’m trying to find the reasoning behind it? maybe you could elaborate on this? However, if we look at the UB references there are some literal uncertainties found that may explain what you indicate that “the UB says what it says and does not say what it does not.”
Gladly!! The quotes you posts obviously tell us that our perception of the Supreme (without the correcting Revelation in hand) is incorrect due to our mortal perceptive and intellectual and evolutionary religious limitations. The Supreme is well defined and discussed at length in the UB if understanding were your goal- Papers 115-118 – but that is not your objective, obviously. Nonetheless, for those with a sincere interest to understand and who will discover in the Papers, the Supreme is the actualized Deity in whom resides all realized truth, beauty, and goodness by all creatures in time and space from the beginning of time and space. The sincere student will also discover that free will and true liberty brings forth thee fruit of the Spirit but the realization of this fruit always delivers ever greater POTENTIAL for more fruit. The Supreme is not potential, he is the result of realized potential resulting in more potential for further realization and actualization, a nearly endless growth in BOTH actualization and evermore potential.This is not a difficult concept for even us little minded/brained people as you declare us all to be…but you of course claim to be a big brain, an astounding mind superior to all others….and yet you cannot retain nor comprehend the simplest of concepts in the Papers. Such as your inability, or is it unwillingness, to understand that free will is absolute but there is also true liberty and false liberty to consider. Have you forgotten (oh surely such a memory and big brain could not forget this) that your namesake’s crime of betrayal, as his master’s Lucifer, was the embrace of false liberty (do I need to look that up for you too?). The high crimes and treasons against God was the embrace of self importance (sound familiar?) over love…love of God and others. Self love and self importance are allowed by the power and sanctity of free will….but such self chosen self importance and self admiration has consequences. The barren branch….lonely, unhappy, prideful, isolation, paranoia, and many other bitter results.I hope you find another way Midi/Caligastia….mercy awaits all who turn away from darkness and toward the light. But one must use their free will to see and to listen for no one will force you to do so….free will is certain. Despite your claim it does not exist.If you need help understanding the text Cali/Midi, do please continue to ask. And best wishes in your quest BB. Do not be too disappointed when you find no contradictions that cannot be explained by other students less eager than you to debunk this epochal revelation given us to reduce confusion and eliminate the obvious errors of understanding.
Free will:
True Liberty:
False Liberty:
God the Supreme:
So far, by your many recent posts and topics here, you have failed completely to offer us a single contradiction, merely illustrated your lust for this quest and demonstrating a personal lack of comprehension.
In doing some research after Nigel’s reply, I found what might be considered as a contradiction in the text of the UB, however as it has been noted, with God all things are possible? So, Bradly if you would examine the following UB quote, and compare it with others found in Book Four, as presented below.
(385.1) 35:1.2 In the universe of Nebadon the Father Melchizedek acts as the first executive associate of the Bright and Morning Star. Gabriel is occupied more with universe policies, Melchizedek with practical procedures. Gabriel presides over the regularly constituted tribunals and councils of Nebadon, Melchizedek over the special, extraordinary, and emergency commissions and advisory bodies. Gabriel and the Father Melchizedek are never away from Salvington at the same time, for in Gabriel’s absence the Father Melchizedek functions as the chief executive of Nebadon.
As noted above, “Gabriel and the Father Melchizedek are never away from Salvington at the same time”. However, in the follwong UB quotes, it indicates that they were both in the presences of Jesus, on Urantia, where if the previous quote, if true and a fact, then the following contradicts that posted above?
(1753.2) 158:1.6 It was about three o’clock on this beautiful afternoon that Jesus took leave of the three apostles, saying: “I go apart by myself for a season to commune with the Father and his messengers; I bid you tarry here and, while awaiting my return, pray that the Father’s will may be done in all your experience in connection with the further bestowal mission of the Son of Man.” And after saying this to them, Jesus withdrew for a long conference with Gabriel and the Father Melchizedek, not returning until about six o’clock. When Jesus saw their anxiety over his prolonged absence, he said: “Why were you afraid? You well know I must be about my Father’s business; wherefore do you doubt when I am not with you? I now declare that the Son of Man has chosen to go through his full life in your midst and as one of you. Be of good cheer; I will not leave you until my work is finished.”
(1753.3) 158:1.7 As they partook of their meager evening meal, Peter asked the Master, “How long do we remain on this mountain away from our brethren?” And Jesus answered: “Until you shall see the glory of the Son of Man and know that whatsoever I have declared to you is true.” And they talked over the affairs of the Lucifer rebellion while seated about the glowing embers of their fire until darkness drew on and the apostles’ eyes grew heavy, for they had begun their journey very early that morning.
(1753.4) 158:1.8 When the three had been fast asleep for about half an hour, they were suddenly awakened by a near-by crackling sound, and much to their amazement and consternation, on looking about them, they beheld Jesus in intimate converse with two brilliant beings clothed in the habiliments of the light of the celestial world. And Jesus’ face and form shone with the luminosity of a heavenly light. These three conversed in a strange language, but from certain things said, Peter erroneously conjectured that the beings with Jesus were Moses and Elijah; in reality, they were Gabriel and the Father Melchizedek. The physical controllers had arranged for the apostles to witness this scene because of Jesus’ request.
I’m sure Bradly, with your extensive knowledge of what the UB says and does not say, that you can present an explanation that indicate that these quotes do not contradict each other?
I can think of one answer where this would not be a contradiction but in its explanation, would create another contradiction, so either way, a possible contradiction. No – ???
Hope to hear from others….but my presumption is “reflectivity” which would not be a “contradiction” at all:
How to ‘appear’ to be in more than one place at the same time!! Note the TA’s capabilities in this regard…was John actually at the scene he witnessed regarding his revelation? Nope. Ever heard of or studied this most practical of functionalities in time and space?
Whoa! Is that true? If it is, it’s remarkably evil. The worst I’ve seen in the TUB community, ever! It’s nauseating, isn’t it? Definitely not utilizing those two highest adjutants at all, let alone the soul. Whew . . . what a mess! That’s what I’m talking about . . . if you allow the adjutants to do their ministry, none of this would happen. . . . Dang! that’s awful . . . yuck . . . can’t get that bad taste out of my mouth.
Well Bonita, it might have been if it were not for the person using the avatar name “fanofVan”, who seemed to feed the flames and added to the subject matter. Why, when the implication came around that “Van” might have feed the flames of the rebellion, and as indicated in the text that “Van” had little regard for his fellows, causing a distraction so that the Tree of Life could be stolen by “Van’s” followers, and putting all those, the majority of his fellows, to suffer the aspects of death, the flames got even higher. All in all, that subject would have made for a very good thesis paper, on the general behavior of persons, especially the predictable behavior just by using an adverse name.
It would seem evident that Bradly/”fanofVan”, has continued in his attempt to distract the subject, or to high-jack a subject, specifically when confronted with questions, as to his current attitude, as he seems to present it. It does not surprise me for his attack, and redirection, more specifically after my previous post #27548, where I tended to pose him with personal questions that he refuses to answer, or comment on. In other instances where there have been some members of this forum who wished to open a subject, to further examine certain aspects of the rebellion, he seemed to be in the forefront to squash those type of subjects. This might have been something that I would have expected from “Van”, back in the day, and being that Bradly is a self proclaimed Fan of Van, it surprises me not. In my most recent study of the UB, it seemed that “Van” took it upon himself, to go against what Jesus presented, specifically the brotherhood of man, which in just indication would not have been available to “Van” in his time, so his actions which kept his fellow staff members isolated from the tree of life, literally resulting in their death, would not be totally subject to his mandate but also from the “Constellation Fathers” who sanctioned his appointment to the staff. Had it not of been for the isolation of communication, back to “Van”, from his appeal to the “Most Highs”, where it has been repeated over and over, that the “Most Highs” rule on “Urantia”, thereby it can be indicated that the “Constellation Fathers” rule on Urantia, where being that Michael had not finished His final bestowal, making Him the Sovereign of this universe, the “Constellation Fathers” were in control. This might also indicate that there is or was an infrastructure issue in the universe that many did not see? So, if the “Most Highs” ruled on Urantia, it could also be assumed that they did nothing to circumvent what Michael/Jesus had to deal with on His bestowal mission. Interesting to say the least. Had it not been for a recently found transmission from the “Most Highs” to “Van” giving him validation for his appeal, there is no telling what may have occurred.
(760.4) 67:6.9 It should be recorded that, when Van appealed to the Most Highs of Edentia after Lucifer had sustained Caligastia on Urantia, the Constellation Fathers dispatched an immediate decision sustaining Van on every point of his contention. This verdict failed to reach him because the planetary circuits of communication were severed while it was in transit. Only recently was this actual ruling discovered lodged in the possession of a relay energy transmitter where it had been marooned ever since the isolation of Urantia. Without this discovery, made as the result of the investigations of the Urantia midwayers, the release of this decision would have awaited the restoration of Urantia to the constellation circuits. And this apparent accident of interplanetary communication was possible because energy transmitters can receive and transmit intelligence, but they cannot initiate communication. (760.5) 67:6.10 The technical status of Van on the legal records of Satania was not actually and finally settled until this ruling of the Edentia Fathers was recorded on Jerusem.
So it would seem that based on the hierarchy at the time, “Van” went over the head of the current System Sovereign, to get validation from those beings who put him into the position that he held, which might indicate that he was a plant within the planetary regime. It is needless to say that I find “Van” a questionable character in the history of Urantia, more specifically that he would take it upon himself to play judge and jury, against his associates, which would have been the responsibility of the Ancient of Days.
If that’s the case Midi, who planted him, since he was here on Urantia before the onset of the rebellion?
Its not so much that he was planted, as it would have been approved.
(749.2) 66:5.31 10. The supreme court of tribal co-ordination and racial co-operation. This supreme council was directed by Van and was the court of appeals for all of the other nine special commissions charged with the supervision of human affairs. This council was one of wide function, being intrusted with all matters of earthly concern which were not specifically assigned to the other groups. This selected corps had been approved by the Constellation Fathers of Edentia before they were authorized to assume the functions of the supreme court of Urantia.
The Constellation Fathers would have the most to benefit from any rebellion, and being that they were also, involved with the assignment of Caligastia to Urantia, even after there were many other opportunities, for Planetary Prince, and where the final word for all assignments, as above, “Van” had to be approved even after being selected by Caligastia, and being that “Van” went directly to them to petition for an appeal, after Lucifer sustained “Van’s” appeal, regarding the same subject, would indicate that “Van” was working with the “Constellation Fathers” otherwise someone in “Vans” position would not have authority, not being a Son of God, to even address them, because it has been noted that the Most Highs do not involve themselves with individuals, so “Van” had to of had special dispensation to even contact them. Not to mention that, even though the return confirmation or communication was stopped, and that it was an immediate response, to “Van’s” appeal, would indicate that there had been additional communication in the past that might have been intelligence gathering and passed on. But I indicated that the Constellation Fathers had the most to gain, giving them additional control over the Universe where the following would indicates that with the passing ages they get more and more power where eventually they would be subject to only one, the Supreme Being, who would have no connection with Havona, or the current Trinity, as noted in paper 55 section 12. One would need to read down from the following in order to associate the “Constellation Fathers” to the Supreme.
(633.6) 55:9.3 As the ages pass, the Constellation Fathers take over more and more of the detailed administrative or supervising functions which were formerly centered on the universe headquarters. By the attainment of the sixth stage of stabilization these unified constellations will have reached the position of well-nigh complete autonomy. Entrance upon the seventh stage of settledness will no doubt witness the exaltation of these rulers to the true dignity signified by their names, the Most Highs. To all intents and purposes the constellations will then deal directly with the superuniverse rulers, while the local universe government will expand to grasp the responsibilities of new grand universe obligations.
Van acted in a crisis. He did what was right. If those of his brothers and sisters who aligned with the rebellion, by so doing, put themselves in a position to be unable to access the life sustaining fruit of the tree of life, well then, a light should have gone on in their rebellious little heads, like it probably did, but was ignored, to knock it off and get behind Van.
You need to get your time-line set. At the time that the Tree of Life was acquired, rebellion was only assumed by “Van” and not yet officially declared, on Jerusem, although it was inevitable, that’s why “Van” appealed to Lucifer, and then to the “Most Highs”, and during his long-winded speech to the staff, and others, indicating that “Van” would send an appeal, which seemed to be a delay needed for action. Whether what he did was right, or wrong, did not fully pan out for seven years for everyone to make a decision, but his actions would have been premature if the majority elected to stay loyal. Therefore, it could be said that the theft of the Tree, was a bargaining chip or possible bribery, to force a favorable decision. Either way, “Van” took control prior to what was or was not a crisis, which took seven years to validate. Also, if there was nothing to hide, regarding this whole proceedings why were the records “obliterated”?
(757.3) 67:3.10 There is no end to the recital of the stirring events of these tragic days. But at last the final decision of the last personality was made, and then, but only then, did a Most High of Edentia arrive with the emergency Melchizedeks to seize authority on Urantia. The Caligastia panoramic reign-records on Jerusem were obliterated, and the probationary era of planetary rehabilitation was inaugurated.
Me here: WRONG AGAIN Caligstia/Midi -Van and all the corporeal staff had loyally administered the affairs and their duties related to their mission following the will and direction of Caligastia, the Planetary Prince, for some 300,000 years. Then this:
1. The Caligastia Betrayal67:1.1 (754.2) For three hundred thousand years Caligastia had been in charge of Urantia when Satan, Lucifer’s assistant, made one of his periodic inspection calls. And when Satan arrived on the planet, his appearance in no way resembled your caricatures of his nefarious majesty. He was, and still is, a Lanonandek Son of great brilliance. “And no marvel, for Satan himself is a brilliant creature of light.”
67:1.2 (754.3) In the course of this inspection Satan informed Caligastia of Lucifer’s then proposed “Declaration of Liberty,” and as we now know, the Prince agreed to betray the planet upon the announcement of the rebellion. The loyal universe personalities look with peculiar disdain upon Prince Caligastia because of this premeditated betrayal of trust. The Creator Son voiced this contempt when he said: “You are like your leader, Lucifer, and you have sinfully perpetuated his iniquity. He was a falsifier from the beginning of his self-exaltation because he abode not in the truth.”
67:2.1 (755.3) Shortly after Satan’s inspection and when the planetary administration was on the eve of the realization of great things on Urantia, one day, midwinter of the northern continents, Caligastia held a prolonged conference with his associate, Daligastia, after which the latter called the ten councils of Urantia in session extraordinary. This assembly was opened with the statement that Prince Caligastia was about to proclaim himself absolute sovereign of Urantia and demanded that all administrative groups abdicate by resigning all of their functions and powers into the hands of Daligastia as trustee, pending the reorganization of the planetary government and the subsequent redistribution of these offices of administrative authority.
67:2.2 (755.4) The presentation of this astounding demand was followed by the masterly appeal of Van, chairman of the supreme council of co-ordination. This distinguished administrator and able jurist branded the proposed course of Caligastia as an act bordering on planetary rebellion and appealed to his conferees to abstain from all participation until an appeal could be taken to Lucifer, the System Sovereign of Satania; and he won the support of the entire staff. Accordingly, appeal was taken to Jerusem, and forthwith came back the orders designating Caligastia as supreme sovereign on Urantia and commanding absolute and unquestioning allegiance to his mandates. And it was in reply to this amazing message that the noble Van made his memorable address of seven hours’ length in which he formally drew his indictment of Daligastia, Caligastia, and Lucifer as standing in contempt of the sovereignty of the universe of Nebadon; and he appealed to the Most Highs of Edentia for support and confirmation.
Me here: The “masterly appeal of Van”, Urantia’s Chief Justice of the Planetary Supreme Court, appeals first to the System HG which, of course, was rejected by the leader and originator of the rebellion – Lucifer, System Sovereign. Then Van made his appeal to the next level of System/Constellation courts – the Supreme Court of Edentia – the Most Highs who rule in the kingdoms of local creation as is their jurisdiction. All according to protocols, policies, and procedures of the Constellation and System administrative management and rule of law and justice and Van’s impeccable discernment and actions coincided with Gabriel’s own appeals and representation of Michael’s will in the matter.
Then came the 7 years of conflict, both on Urantia and throughout the System, whereby and during, every creature and mind was given opportunity to decide for themselves whether to follow the rebel leadership or to stand firm against rebellion and the Lucifer’s declaration and manifesto declaring himself God, denying the Universal Father, and claiming Michael’s indifference and impotence.
Gabriel’s loyalty was a certainty as Michael’s first born Son and Chief Executive of the entire Local Universe of Nebadon, always faithfully representing the mind, will, and voice of Nebadon’s Creator Son. But Van? And Amadon? They exemplify the power of faith, trust, and loyalty by those who began life as material born creatures of the lowliest of origins.
Early in the 7 Crucial Years of soul searching and the exposure of loyalists and rebels, the Tree of Life was saved for Van’s Loyalists:67:3.3 (756.4) The traitorous Prince marshaled the disloyal midway creatures and other groups of rebel personalities and organized them to execute his bidding, while Van assembled the loyal midwayers and other faithful groups and began the great battle for the salvation of the planetary staff and other marooned celestial personalities.
67:3.4 (756.5) During the times of this struggle the loyalists dwelt in an unwalled and poorly protected settlement a few miles to the east of Dalamatia, but their dwellings were guarded day and night by the alert and ever-watchful loyal midway creatures, and they had possession of the priceless tree of life.
67:3.5 (756.6) Upon the outbreak of rebellion, loyal cherubim and seraphim, with the aid of three faithful midwayers, assumed the custody of the tree of life and permitted only the forty loyalists of the staff and their associated modified mortals to partake of the fruit and leaves of this energy plant. There were fifty-six of these modified Andonite associates of the staff, sixteen of the Andonite attendants of the disloyal staff refusing to go into rebellion with their masters.
67:3.6 (756.7) Throughout the seven crucial years of the Caligastia rebellion, Van was wholly devoted to the work of ministry to his loyal army of men, midwayers, and angels. The spiritual insight and moral steadfastness which enabled Van to maintain such an unshakable attitude of loyalty to the universe government was the product of clear thinking, wise reasoning, logical judgment, sincere motivation, unselfish purpose, intelligent loyalty, experiential memory, disciplined character, and the unquestioning dedication of his personality to the doing of the will of the Father in Paradise.
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