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Greetings Friends!!
I think that based on the discussion and text thus far, that we are describing a sequential vine, blossom, seed cycle: the individual believer in God eventuates into the brotherhood of believers begets the eventuation of the spiritual brotherhood which eventuates into the social brotherhood which serves the each further into the ministry of love so that more enter more quickly into the reality of the kingdom of God. Each evolutionary progression is a result of love response within the believer, between believers, and between all others.
We must remember that love exists regardless of belief – it is not knowledge based and it is an inherent reality and truth that flows from within – a river of constant current and flow. It is a power and influence of its own and requires nothing else for its potential effects upon the individual and the social order between individuals. It has its own rewards and results.
But surely believers can best understand its source and its destiny and its purpose, power, and reality? As go the parts, so goes the whole. Love is infectious when once tasted….we want more and learn, eventually, that love is a circuit to be enjoyed most in its giving.
Vern – nothing is unforgiveable….surely I misunderstand your claim above? Sin carries the seed of its own destruction but God forgives all and everything which finds contrition and those who forsake our evil/error and sinful acts and thoughts. Forgiveness follows repentance….always in all things. Even Lucifer may yet receive forgiveness if only he would choose to do so. Or so we are taught.
Vern – nothing is unforgiveable….surely I misunderstand your claim above? Sin carries the seed of its own destruction but God forgives all and everything which finds contrition and those who forsake our evil/error and sinful acts and thoughts. Forgiveness follows repentance….always in all things. Even Lucifer may yet receive forgiveness if only he would choose to do so. Or so we are taught.
May I remind you of the following:
(1714.2) 153:4.3 Then said Jesus: “How can Satan cast out Satan? A kingdom divided against itself cannot stand; if a house be divided against itself, it is soon brought to desolation. Can a city withstand a siege if it is not united? If Satan casts out Satan, he is divided against himself; how then shall his kingdom stand? But you should know that no one can enter into the house of a strong man and despoil his goods except he first overpower and bind that strong man. And so, if I by the power of Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your sons cast them out? Therefore shall they be your judges. But if I, by the spirit of God, cast out devils, then has the kingdom of God truly come upon you. If you were not blinded by prejudice and misled by fear and pride, you would easily perceive that one who is greater than devils stands in your midst. You compel me to declare that he who is not with me is against me, while he who gathers not with me scatters abroad. Let me utter a solemn warning to you who would presume, with your eyes open and with premeditated malice, knowingly to ascribe the works of God to the doings of devils! Verily, verily, I say to you, all your sins shall be forgiven, even all of your blasphemies, but whosoever shall blaspheme against God with deliberation and wicked intention shall never obtain forgiveness. Since such persistent workers of iniquity will never seek nor receive forgiveness, they are guilty of the sin of eternally rejecting divine forgiveness.
Then there is the following:
(1638.4) 146:2.4 3. By opening the human end of the channel of the God-man communication, mortals make immediately available the ever-flowing stream of divine ministry to the creatures of the worlds. When man hears God’s spirit speak within the human heart, inherent in such an experience is the fact that God simultaneously hears that man’s prayer. Even the forgiveness of sin operates in this same unerring fashion. The Father in heaven has forgiven you even before you have thought to ask him, but such forgiveness is not available in your personal religious experience until such a time as you forgive your fellow men. God’s forgiveness in fact is not conditioned upon your forgiving your fellows, but in experience it is exactly so conditioned. And this fact of the synchrony of divine and human forgiveness was thus recognized and linked together in the prayer which Jesus taught the apostles.
(1638.5) 146:2.5 4. There is a basic law of justice in the universe which mercy is powerless to circumvent. The unselfish glories of Paradise are not possible of reception by a thoroughly selfish creature of the realms of time and space. Even the infinite love of God cannot force the salvation of eternal survival upon any mortal creature who does not choose to survive. Mercy has great latitude of bestowal, but, after all, there are mandates of justice which even love combined with mercy cannot effectively abrogate. Again Jesus quoted from the Hebrew scriptures: “I have called and you refused to hear; I stretched out my hand, but no man regarded. You have set at naught all my counsel, and you have rejected my reproof, and because of this rebellious attitude it becomes inevitable that you shall call upon me and fail to receive an answer. Having rejected the way of life, you may seek me diligently in your times of suffering, but you will not find me.”
Mark 3:22-30 states,
“And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, ‘He has Beelzebub,’ and, ‘By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.’ …‘Assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation;’ because they said, ‘He has an unclean spirit’” (NKJV, emphasis added / Note: The Pharisees made the same charge in Mat 9:34.).
In Matthew 12:31-32, Jesus says to the Pharisees,
“Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come” (NKJV, emphasis added).
Midi – thank you for the confirming UB quotes. Nothing is unforgiveable….but deliberate iniquity distorts the mind in ways that makes forgiveness unapproachable or unattainable by that free will which is required to give and receive both love and mercy. The phrase in text: “… shall never obtain forgiveness….” does not say forgiveness is unavailable or withdrawn – it is it will not be obtained – and this is due to self determination and free will “rejection” of mercy and forgiveness – which leaves only justice to deal with such a mind. Even love and mercy (forgiveness) cannot abrogate free will – its power is absolute.
111:1.6 (1217.1) Mind is the cosmic instrument on which the human will can play the discords of destruction, or upon which this same human will can bring forth the exquisite melodies of God identification and consequent eternal survival. The Adjuster bestowed upon man is, in the last analysis, impervious to evil and incapable of sin, but mortal mind can actually be twisted, distorted, and rendered evil and ugly by the sinful machinations of a perverse and self-seeking human will. Likewise can this mind be made noble, beautiful, true, and good — actually great — in accordance with the spirit-illuminated will of a God-knowing human being.
111:4.11 (1220.10) This is the problem: If freewill man is endowed with the powers of creativity in the inner man, then must we recognize that freewill creativity embraces the potential of freewill destructivity. And when creativity is turned to destructivity, you are face to face with the devastation of evil and sin — oppression, war, and destruction. Evil is a partiality of creativity which tends toward disintegration and eventual destruction. All conflict is evil in that it inhibits the creative function of the inner life — it is a species of civil war in the personality.
The biblical scripture is interesting….but less accurate IMO.
Midi – thank you for the confirming UB quotes. Nothing is unforgiveable….but deliberate iniquity distorts the mind in ways that makes forgiveness unapproachable or unattainable by that free will which is required to give and receive both love and mercy. The phrase in text: “… shall never obtain forgiveness….” does not say forgiveness is unavailable or withdrawn – it is it will not be obtained – and this is due to self determination and free will “rejection” of mercy and forgiveness – which leaves only justice to deal with such a mind. Even love and mercy (forgiveness) cannot abrogate free will – its power is absolute.
If you honestly believe that “deliberate iniquity” is the only thing which “distorts the mind”, than you must be living on another world, because every day people are having their “free will” distorted and manipulated in ways which program them to do this or that, or but this or that, and are made to think that without this or that, their lives have no meaning. If you haven’t watched any TV, or watched the TV commercials, then I guess you would be leading a sheltered life. In your profession, have you ever told anyone something which was not 100% true, as you really knew it to be, to make a sale or acquire an account? You make statements regarding the UB but, really have only retained what you feel is prevalent to yourself, and because it makes you feel good it must be the absolute truth, regardless of any other presentations found in the UB which may cast a shadow on your personal belief as to the UB’s content. That’s okay for you to believe, but please allow me, and others the opportunity to analyze its content as we may understand it to have meaning.
In the quotes which I have presented from UB text, it is obvious that there can be several understanding of those quotes, where one is a quote from Jesus, and the other a statement in regards to the Fathers forgiveness being a “fact” but as one would “experience” this “fact” it is in direct association with forgiving others (your brothers and sisters) in order to understand how the Fathers forgiveness would work as experiential reality.
Our Fathers forgiveness is there for all but, it must be realized in the heart of the forgiven, and reciprocated to others before one may truly consider the Fathers bestowal of free will, and how it is to be used. In your assessment, it would seem that regardless of sin, that any repetitive sin is forgiven, therefore making forgiveness useless without some form of repentance, or showing of having done wrong and the willingness to not sin again. Jesus, had forgiven sin but also instructed to go and sin no more, in hopes that those who were forgiven would also forgive others of any sins, which may be directed against them also. Being merciful in judgment is also a form of forgiveness, but having prejudices against anyone who may be different than oneself, without determining why they seem different, is still prejudice and discrimination. Jesus went to the sinner in order to find out why and who they were, but many who profess love for others, and segregate themselves for those sinners, are merely hypocrite’s to the love in words only, and act not.
111:1.6 (1217.1) Mind is the cosmic instrument on which the human will can play the discords of destruction, or upon which this same human will can bring forth the exquisite melodies of God identification and consequent eternal survival. The Adjuster bestowed upon man is, in the last analysis, impervious to evil and incapable of sin, [b]but[/b] [u]mortal mind can actually be twisted, distorted, and rendered evil and ugly by the sinful machinations of a perverse and self-seeking human will[/u]. Likewise can this mind be made noble, beautiful, true, and good — actually great — in accordance with the spirit-illuminated will of a God-knowing human being.
The use of the word “machinations” above would indicate “crafty schemes; plots; intrigues“, which can be applied as coming from another’s mind and affecting an other persons mind. Where just because someone has an “Adjuster” who is resilient to sin, does in no way indicate that the mind who has been bestowed by that “Adjuster” can function with that same resilience, and can be affected by other’s human will’s who are not “God-knowing human” beings.
111:4.11 (1220.10) This is the problem: If freewill man is endowed with the powers of creativity in the inner man, then must we recognize that freewill creativity embraces the potential of freewill destructivity. And when creativity is turned to destructivity, you are face to face with the devastation of evil and sin — oppression, war, and destruction. Evil is a partiality of creativity which tends toward disintegration and eventual destruction. All conflict is evil in that it inhibits the creative function of the inner life — it is a species of civil war in the personality.
Do you think that “the potential of freewill destructivity” is inherent to all humans or can they be manipulated or thought to use creative “freewill” as a destructive power or force against others? The universe may be a friendly place but this world has shown itself otherwise.
The biblical scripture is interesting….but less accurate IMO.
How can it be less accurate, than the UB if the UB uses these quotes from the Bible, to show its parallel, but often has changed those quotes by one or more words to suit the story line? Evidently, you have made the UB, your scripture, therefore making it your Bible, and anything else, false. Therefore, has not your free will been altered, and closed your mind to all others? Thereby, making yourself prejudice to anything else, and unable to present the message of the Kingdom to other’s who may think differently, making yourself no different than anyone else…IMO.
Vern wrote: I did a search in The Urantia Book yesterday for the instances of the term “spiritual brotherhood” there were 22 of them.Thanks. I hope you’re not growing weary of the topic. I have a bit more to share.Jesus “. . . depicted all his followers as servants of mankind and messengers of the gospel of the kingdom.” ( 169:4:1 ) Not servants of God, but servants of mankind. We are to be messengers of the gospel. We, who are Urantia Book readers, are fortunate to be able to study the gospel as recounted and enlarged for us by this revelational book. I am always learning something new in it. For example,the spiritual brotherhood is a new term to us, as previously mentioned. Consider these other phrases from the book that convey Jesus’ idea.religious brotherhood of mankindJesus brotherhood and fellowship of believersbrotherhood of the kingdom of heaventhe living temple of spiritual fellowshipthe practice of the brotherhood of manthe kingdom of heaven on earthspirit-led brotherhood of the kingdomthe kingdom of the divine brotherhoodthe new doctrine of the brotherhood of manthe idea of the fatherhood of God and the world-wide brotherhood of manThe Christians had trouble with the kingdom of God idea. But Jesus often spoke of it using other terms. I think each of us will find a term or phrase that fits best, according to our preferences, to describe what is spiritual brotherhood.( 170:2:24 ) [. . .] Jesus often spoke of it as the “kingdom of life.” He also frequently referred to “the kingdom of God within you.” He once spoke of such an experience as “family fellowship with God the Father.” Jesus sought to substitute many terms for the kingdom but always without success. Among others, he used: the family of God, the Father’s will, the friends of God, the fellowship of believers, the brotherhood of man, the Father’s fold, the children of God, the fellowship of the faithful, the Father’s service, and the liberated sons of God.We have been informed, “. . . this brotherhood is destined to become a living organism. . . .” (195:10:11 )Mara wrote: Christians had trouble with the kingdom of God idea.Mara, I really don’t think individual Christian believers have difficulty in understanding Jesus’ proclamation; “the Kingdom is within you.” However, the Christian Church does, as it diminishes their power over the individual. Remember, the essence of this liberating pronouncement is, that between God and the individual believer, there are no intermediaries.Islam is yet to appreciate the liberating truth of this fact on an individual and group level, in the separation of church and state in role of government, in particular.Then there will indeed be a greater manifestation of spiritual brotherhood. Thought Adjusters have flocked to our world and the Spirit of Truth is actively building the kingdom of God within every truth seeking soul on the planet. The truth will set mankind free to discover the source of all truth, the Father within you.Midi – I find the differences in wording and meaning between the human authored memories and edited versions of Jesus’ words in the bible compared to those delivered in the UB rather profound myself. And yes, I do believe we are taught that the human mind is capable of great distortion and mischief; but only iniquity can so distort a mind that it is unable to respond to love or accept mercy and forgiveness. And I think nothing one mind may do to any other mind removes free will nor may it prevent the spirit ministry here or in time to come.
We may not successfully blame others for our motives, priorities, and choices – despite any crafty or clever efforts of manipulation. The spiritual brotherhood remains open for any and for all who so believe and choose….IMO. The quote you offered confirms that it is not by the acts of another that any are victimized in our relationship with God or others. Perhaps you might read it again:
111:1.6 (1217.1) Mind is the cosmic instrument on which the human will can play the discords of destruction, or upon which this same human will can bring forth the exquisite melodies of God identification and consequent eternal survival. The Adjuster bestowed upon man is, in the last analysis, impervious to evil and incapable of sin, but mortal mind can actually be twisted, distorted, and rendered evil and ugly by the sinful machinations of a perverse and self-seeking human will. Likewise can this mind be made noble, beautiful, true, and good — actually great — in accordance with the spirit-illuminated will of a God-knowing human being.
The “machinations” are by the mind so distorted and not by any other’s mind or will or act. We are each in charge of and responsible for our choices and our outcomes thereby according to this quote. We choose. The mind responds to love and God and brotherhood or it does not…but it is the mind’s own doing and choosing that makes this determination.
118:10.16 (1306.5) On a planet of this advanced order, providence has become an actuality, the circumstances of life are correlated, but this is not only because man has come to dominate the material problems of his world; it is also because he has begun to live according to the trend of the universes; he is following the pathway of Supremacy to the attainment of the Universal Father.
118:10.17 (1306.6) The kingdom of God is in the hearts of men, and when this kingdom becomes actual in the heart of every individual on a world, then God’s rule has become actual on that planet; and this is the attained sovereignty of the Supreme Being.
118:10.18 (1306.7) To realize providence in time, man must accomplish the task of achieving perfection. But man can even now foretaste this providence in its eternity meanings as he ponders the universe fact that all things, be they good or evil, work together for the advancement of God-knowing mortals in their quest for the Father of all.
118:10.19 (1306.8) Providence becomes increasingly discernible as men reach upward from the material to the spiritual. The attainment of completed spiritual insight enables the ascending personality to detect harmony in what was theretofore chaos. Even morontia mota represents a real advance in this direction.
194:3.2 (2062.11) Many things which happen in the course of a human life are hard to understand, difficult to reconcile with the idea that this is a universe in which truth prevails and in which righteousness triumphs. It so often appears that slander, lies, dishonesty, and unrighteousness — sin — prevail. Does faith, after all, triumph over evil, sin, and iniquity? It does. And the life and death of Jesus are the eternal proof that the truth of goodness and the faith of the spirit-led creature will always be vindicated. They taunted Jesus on the cross, saying, “Let us see if God will come and deliver him.” It looked dark on that day of the crucifixion, but it was gloriously bright on the resurrection morning; it was still brighter and more joyous on the day of Pentecost. The religions of pessimistic despair seek to obtain release from the burdens of life; they crave extinction in endless slumber and rest. These are the religions of primitive fear and dread. The religion of Jesus is a new gospel of faith to be proclaimed to struggling humanity. This new religion is founded on faith, hope, and love.
The “machinations” are by the mind so distorted and not by any other’s mind or will or act. We are each in charge of and responsible for our choices and our outcomes thereby according to this quote. We choose. The mind responds to love and God and brotherhood or it does not…but it is the mind’s own doing and choosing that makes this determination.
You see, this is where I disagree, with what you have stated above. Where by my reading and understanding it, would appear that you are saying that everyone is on their own as regards to making choices, as are presented from their station in life, and or environment which they may be born into, therefore it would seem that you assert that “mind responds to love” and you have added that “love” is in addition to “God and brotherhood”, where I ask, what of those minds who have not received “love” and know not what “love” is, as experienced from others? It would seem that you believe that, those minds, regardless of any previous lack of action, are on their own to make choices based on what was or was not a circumstance of their life, and that if the “brotherhood” is not accepted as possibly being misunderstood by these minds, being tough luck, therefore being unworthy of additional effort by God, or a brotherhood who is God-knowing?
If a mind appears to be “distorted”, regardless of how this distortion had affected this mind, who’s responsibility would it be to show a little mercy and guidance in order to help set one on a better path? You present that it is “the mind’s own doing and choosing” and would seem that if this “doing and choosing” is not acceptable to your own understanding, well that’s just to bad and no further action would or should be forthcoming?
What of those children who have been mentally and physically abused by, in some cases their own parents, where even a co-parent has become complacent to the abuse, and allows it to continue, forcing that child’s mind to become “distorted” and, heaven forbid, this child manages to grow up with a distorted thought process and becomes an abuser as well, but is confronted with having to be responsible for their actions, not really knowing what they have done is wrong, because they knew no other way, that their mind “makes this determination”, and it cannot be changed or presented with that “distorted” so called “love” that they received in the past by that “distorted” or sick parent?
Don’t even start to tell me that this does not occur, because I have after almost thirty years re-established communication with my daughter, who by no fault of her own, was ripped away from her father, and forced to endure a life of lies which prevented her from any truth, and subjected her to a step-father who physically abused her, while her mother allowed that environment to continue, because of selfish reasoning, forcing my daughter to run away from that circumstance, being told that “no one will love you like we love you”, then accusing her of being mentally unstable? Fortunately, she was helped by friends who gave a dam about her and now she seems to have settled into her own family life, where our communication, back and forth, has been, as she put it, overwhelming and if nothing else, a reality awakening, which in that what she thought, was her only reality and now, with my input with truth, which corresponded with her distorted memories as a small child, having truth omitted or augmented to make her believe something which she was unable to accept, but now seems to be more relieved that she did not have a mental disorder, as she was told.
Then there was a family member on my current wife’s side of the family, who was abused by his father, who later became an abuser, and where his mind had been distorted, by having been allowed to believe that what he was doing was normal and acceptable, thereby later not being able to deal with this confusion, committed suicide, by hanging himself, where he left four children from three women behind.
So, tell me that, their minds were distorted without being influenced by the free will of others, and that their choices were “it is the mind’s own doing and choosing” which put them into these circumstances, and that we as a brotherhood or sisterhood, should accept their fate as being not our responsibility to help correct or change. Yes, the universe is a friendly place, but for some this world has been made into a hell on earth, where love can help but not without action, to change what love means to so many who do not know God.
Hello MidChlorian,
You raise a very good point for us all to consider. I do resign myself to high probability some minds cannot be corrected during mortal life, perhaps for reasons you cite. On the surface, such intense difficulties and misfortunes seem terrible and wasteful, for indeed, there are missed opportunities for some in this life stage. Abuse and mind distortion is a form of robbery!
It would be good for us all to consider UB revelation reporting corrective teaching (my words) is available on the Mansion Worlds. Loving, patient teachers await and are prepared to help us with our troubles, Recall the authors tell us there is a lot of effort in the next life stages to address mortal defects and deficiencies. Consider how loving is a prepared God who is ready to help us!!!!!
Persons born into and raised by a balanced, loving family may be “miles” ahead, perhaps, of those unfortunate ones who are deprived, but we should all be warned, we are not to judge one another. Divinity has never authorized a mortal to judge another’s soul. To me this means we may rest assured that even though we have not attained perfection on Urantia, when we are deprived or when we have not finally, fully rejected the Father, there will be and there certainly is a higher level of judgment personnel who will recognize any value in each person. The Gods cannot save a person who has rejected, but any person who has not had a fair opportunity to base a saving decision surely is known on high as one who needs additional learning opportunities. In short, revelation tells us to have no fear; greater love is here; God provides for all our needs. All we have to do is accept. More chances are provided for ones who have been robbed in this life!!!!!!!
Bradly’ comments are probably right when he refers to what likely are normal or near normal minds, but you very kindly remind us of situations that are not God’s ideal. Be assured—each soul is valuable and no one will be rejected for additional chances for salvation who has not made a final choice.
More could be said. Thank you for your contribution!
Midi….I understand your meaning and your anguish. As Mark posts, this is one of the most wonderful teachings in the Urantia Book – that none are judged nor condemned by this life and God well knows of such unfairness and personal suffering and awaits those of us who do not find him here in that far better place to come. Unfairness is the most difficult obstacle for many to faith and hope and it is indeed tragic when anyone suffers at the hand of another, especially as you describe…but in many other ways as well. I too had a daughter snatched from my caring affection as a babe and did not ever know of her until I finally found her 35 years later. She suffered as well but in different ways and was lied to as well and hidden from her father and a whole family that adored this first born of her generation. I can easily empathize with your story.
I did not mean to suggest that the mind is free from the manipulations and machinations of others and cannot be tortured, tormented, and distorted by suffering at the hands of others or even circumstance or tragedy or injury, infirmary, or any other material cause. But none of these can prevent such a soul from survival and further opportunities to know love and join the family of God. And this is the greatest of the good news!! We do not face judgment in this life after all, despite the teachings of my fundamentalist upbringing. I am certain those minds that are tortured by their experiences of suffering in this world will still find joy and comfort and love….many do still here on the planet of their birth by a kinder, gentler, more loving person still to come upon this world into their life. As in your daughter’s case by your story.
These examples you provide are not those free will choices to reject God or love and do so with knowledge and intent and to then embrace knowing sin and iniquity. I have been blessed to know many who, despite the worst of circumstances and experiences, still found and chose love. What a testament to the healing power of love itself. Those who cannot exercise free will can never be judged by free will. I hope that the spirit of love and the love of Father and other mortals find each mind as I have been so blessed to know. I am certain all will come to know such love on the shores of Mansonia if not here. And I know that love can overcome all obstacles when it is allowed to fill our heart.
But to be honest, when one does know the difference between what is right and what is wrong and freely chooses wrong, there are consequences to such a mind and this, then, is free will in action. And this is the definitive difference in free will – I know right from wrong and I make a choice that I know is either right or wrong. To error or misjudge or to serve self is not sin. It is only deliberate sin that can distort the mind into a place where it may reject God’s love. Deliberate sin requires knowledge and a clear choice. Those ones who suffer at the hands of others are victims of someone else’s free will and not their own. Those ones will face their own evils and sins and have opportunity, still, to choose love and receive entry into the family of God as willing and eager citizens in the friendly universe.
It is my belief that theirs will be a more difficult journey than their victims. Thank you Midi for sharing. My best wishes to you and yours. May God’s love rain down upon all of us on this world. It is the work of the spiritual brotherhood to serve all who suffer by the Master’s example and to forsake none in their suffering by any indifference. Love is only true when it is freely given to another. The world will suffer until we learn to love one another.
Bradly’ comments are probably right when he refers to what likely are normal or near normal minds, but you very kindly remind us of situations that are not God’s ideal. Be assured—each soul is valuable and no one will be rejected for additional chances for salvation who has not made a final choice.
I understand your premise as presented, yet I ask of anyone who knows, what is or can you please define, what is a normal or near normal mind?
And if all those who are suffering, must they wait for another life, to get any relief? Did not Jesus act, in this reality, therefore, are we not to act as well? I do not recall that Jesus indicated that we need to wait for another life to create a better life for all in or for this one.
It is too easy to say, well if this life is not working for someone, just pass on or wait for the next one. Would this not be an invitation to suicide?
MidiChlorian wrote:. . . my daughter. . . .Your daughter is so very, very blessed to have you in her life, Midi. You bring to her your special fatherly love, your spiritual comfort and loving embrace. And you are blessed too, to have her in your life now! I know this from my own experience with a daughter. When she found me 15 yeas ago, I called her the prodigal daughter. I could not stop weeping. I wanted to shout from every rooftop, my daughter was lost, but now she is found!God has a plan. We and they are a part of it.Midichlorian wrote:
“And if all those who are suffering, must they wait for another life, to get any relief? Did not Jesus act, in this reality, therefore, are we not to act as well? I do not recall that Jesus indicated that we need to wait for another life to create a better life for all in or for this one.”
As I said in my closing, more could be said, so therefore not every thought others could have would be addressed in one post. To clarify, I am not suggesting people must wait until the next life. We may serve in hope as much as we are able to help people, but the next life will have ample opportunities for continuing growth, if accepted. We will have as much time and service as is needed before fusion. Surely, let those who would help get involved here on Urantia to aid anyone who needs. A major point I wanted to make is the Divine Minds will provide anything needed; their assessment abilities are wonderful. Love is the most powerful force in all creation.
There is no need for helpers to wait and no suicide is necessary for those who will to growth. When will is lost, then its understandable. Give God the glory in helping to the maximum possible. Thought Adjusters could influence people to intervene. Persons who have experience with difficult situations as you describe are more qualified to comment and teach than those of us without experience. I defer to your larger view.
But to be honest, when one does know the difference between what is right and what is wrong and freely chooses wrong, there are consequences to such a mind and this, then, is free will in action. And this is the definitive difference in free will – I know right from wrong and I make a choice that I know is either right or wrong. To error or misjudge or to serve self is not sin. It is only deliberate sin that can distort the mind into a place where it may reject God’s love. Deliberate sin requires knowledge and a clear choice. Those ones who suffer at the hands of others are victims of someone else’s free will and not their own. Those ones will face their own evils and sins and have opportunity, still, to choose love and receive entry into the family of God as willing and eager citizens in the friendly universe.
I had only scratched the surface of this entire story which has not ended, but as I read what you have written also reminds me of that same person who stood in front of his congregation and preach much of the same things which I just read, but this same person had confessed to me that prior to taking up the pulpit again he also lost a daughter to suicide and thereafter lost his wife because of that trauma which his child had suffered. Little did I know, at that time, that this same person was to be my daughters step-father, in a short time to come, and from those memories, and from what I had heard about my daughters abuse, where she was accused of being a mental delinquent, knew that her suffering was true, and that this so called man of God, who preach the same love to and for others was guilty once again of subjecting his free will on another.
You speak of suffering and torture, well I am also aware of these and had an opportunity to confront my torturer, whereby our eyes crossed and I said that “we all must do what we must do.” I hold no vengeance against the ones who have inflicted pain and suffering because I know, and have always held Our Father to His word in that “vengeance is His”, and I have always known and seen, that those transgressors had received their do, where it was warranted and justified, but that which did not kill me only made me stronger, in the understanding of Our Father’s will. No one, not even Jesus, needed to perform or instigate what would be called miracles because they only needed to have faith, and believe, that Our Father was paying attention and was the power behind the action forthcoming. I know this because I see His actions every day, as these times seem to be getting worse but in all actuality are working towards His goal, as planed. So, if you would rather rest on your laurels, and preach words instead of acting upon them, then so be it. I’m sure Our Father will notice, and present you with your just reward in the times to come.
Where I will continue to minister to those who have been justly convicted or sentenced by those who have given them up as lost, and I will sit and listen to their stories, where they admit to their sins but also explain that they had little choice in the matter, because their human nature compelled them to do so, and knowing that they, when placed into the same circumstance again, might be compelled to sin again. For these individuals are truly deserving of forgiveness, and mercy but at the same time cannot be allowed to again interact or be placed in similar circumstances which they have no power to restrain themselves. One such person who I was fortunate to befriend, who was rightfully imprisoned in a mental institution for over twenty years was resolved to his crime for killing his wife and his brother, who fell into transgression, and from his jealous anger, committed this sin, whereby through his guilt had allowed his mind to react as if insanity was his punishment. Later on in years I met a young man who I had the opportunity to work with, who had been warring a wool cap in the summer time, and I asked him why, where he turned to me, looked in my eyes, saying nothing, but instantly a visual memory of that same person who I had befriended so many years prior, who also wore a wool cap, all the time, where this young man smiled turned and walked out, where I had laughed and responded, go home you SOB, realizing that Our Father works in mysterious ways and my friends sins had been forgiven.
So, one can preach all they want about this or that but, sometimes all that is needed is to sit and listen to someone’s story, which might not be that much different that listening to one’s confession. By listening or presenting a person with the opportunity to allow them to speak regardless of their mental capacity as to knowledge of right and wrong, without presenting adverse judgment as to prior conviction by others, may just be the action required by Our Father. Why else was Jesus labeled as a publican and rather preferred the company of sinners to those who deemed themselves as being righteous and pompous to others.
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