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Who can you “love” in a “greed is good” absolutism driven society?! What is the psychology profile of people who DO fit in and find considerable material success in THAT kind of society? Would not generosity, sympathy, empathy, kindness, grace and charm Jesus-channeling be nothing other a game of wits used to hide the motives of iniquity? Rhetorical questions…
Me here: While the questions may be rhetorical, they do fit into the topic at hand and we are given much instruction in the Urantia Book related to them by the Master and in his time. The UB describes many epochs of humanity’s progress through layer after layer of primitivism and fear based living (greed, hate, anger, and anxiety all being fear based and associated). I do not agree that there is less love or sincerity today than 80 years ago or 800. The profit motive is but another level of primitivism that delivers progressive opportunity for transcendence to an improved version of still more primitivism to still overcome….again and again – this is the nature of evolution.
But regardless of which view is the more accurate, we live when we live and where we live and must meet the challenge presented to our daily walk and material life to not just get along and “fit in”, but to live exemplary lives. Poverty and material success both deliver adequate hurdles and temptations for all to overcome by spiritization and transferring the seat of identity. Happiness eludes the self serving materialist, yet all yearn for happiness and peace of mind which is only derived as a fruit of the spirit.
Says the Master:
156:5.15 (1740.2) As the days pass, every true believer becomes more skillful in alluring his fellows into the love of eternal truth. Are you more resourceful in revealing goodness to humanity today than you were yesterday? Are you a better righteousness recommender this year than you were last year? Are you becoming increasingly artistic in your technique of leading hungry souls into the spiritual kingdom?
156:5.16 (1740.3) Are your ideals sufficiently high to insure your eternal salvation while your ideas are so practical as to render you a useful citizen to function on earth in association with your mortal fellows? In the spirit, your citizenship is in heaven; in the flesh, you are still citizens of the earth kingdoms. Render to the Caesars the things which are material and to God those which are spiritual.
156:5.17 (1740.4) The measure of the spiritual capacity of the evolving soul is your faith in truth and your love for man, but the measure of your human strength of character is your ability to resist the holding of grudges and your capacity to withstand brooding in the face of deep sorrow. Defeat is the true mirror in which you may honestly view your real self.
156:5.18 (1740.5) As you grow older in years and more experienced in the affairs of the kingdom, are you becoming more tactful in dealing with troublesome mortals and more tolerant in living with stubborn associates? Tact is the fulcrum of social leverage, and tolerance is the earmark of a great soul. If you possess these rare and charming gifts, as the days pass you will become more alert and expert in your worthy efforts to avoid all unnecessary social misunderstandings. Such wise souls are able to avoid much of the trouble which is certain to be the portion of all who suffer from lack of emotional adjustment, those who refuse to grow up, and those who refuse to grow old gracefully.
156:5.19 (1740.6) Avoid dishonesty and unfairness in all your efforts to preach truth and proclaim the gospel. Seek no unearned recognition and crave no undeserved sympathy. Love, freely receive from both divine and human sources regardless of your deserts, and love freely in return. But in all other things related to honor and adulation seek only that which honestly belongs to you.
156:5.20 (1740.7) The God-conscious mortal is certain of salvation; he is unafraid of life; he is honest and consistent. He knows how bravely to endure unavoidable suffering; he is uncomplaining when faced by inescapable hardship.
156:5.21 (1740.8) The true believer does not grow weary in well-doing just because he is thwarted. Difficulty whets the ardor of the truth lover, while obstacles only challenge the exertions of the undaunted kingdom builder.
178:1.4 (1930.1) Sonship in the kingdom, from the standpoint of advancing civilization, should assist you in becoming the ideal citizens of the kingdoms of this world since brotherhood and service are the cornerstones of the gospel of the kingdom. The love call of the spiritual kingdom should prove to be the effective destroyer of the hate urge of the unbelieving and war-minded citizens of the earthly kingdoms. But these material-minded sons in darkness will never know of your spiritual light of truth unless you draw very near them with that unselfish social service which is the natural outgrowth of the bearing of the fruits of the spirit in the life experience of each individual believer.
178:1.5 (1930.2) As mortal and material men, you are indeed citizens of the earthly kingdoms, and you should be good citizens, all the better for having become reborn spirit sons of the heavenly kingdom. As faith-enlightened and spirit-liberated sons of the kingdom of heaven, you face a double responsibility of duty to man and duty to God while you voluntarily assume a third and sacred obligation: service to the brotherhood of God-knowing believers.
178:1.17 (1932.2) Throughout the vicissitudes of life, remember always to love one another. Do not strive with men, even with unbelievers. Show mercy even to those who despitefully abuse you. Show yourselves to be loyal citizens, upright artisans, praiseworthy neighbors, devoted kinsmen, understanding parents, and sincere believers in the brotherhood of the Father’s kingdom. And my spirit shall be upon you, now and even to the end of the world.
Those of us who claim to be believers and members of the spiritual brotherhood cannot despise others nor abandon our duty to shine the light of love as we walk by. We are ambassadors of the kingdom of God in the kingdoms of mortals. Those who are lost amid the darkness of fear need us…..the Most Highs and the Supreme depend upon us. Those ones caught up in pleasures and distractions and those victims of the hate and greed of others are, after all, children of God and abide in the family of God. It is difficult to love those who do not love. Still working on that challenge!
191:4.3 (2041.6) “Peace be upon you. You all know that we have one Father in heaven, and that there is but one gospel of the kingdom — the good news of the gift of eternal life which men receive by faith. As you rejoice in your loyalty to the gospel, pray the Father of truth to shed abroad in your hearts a new and greater love for your brethren. You are to love all men as I have loved you; you are to serve all men as I have served you. With understanding sympathy and brotherly affection, fellowship all your brethren who are dedicated to the proclamation of the good news, whether they be Jew or gentile, Greek or Roman, Persian or Ethiopian. John proclaimed the kingdom in advance; you have preached the gospel in power; the Greeks already teach the good news; and I am soon to send forth the Spirit of Truth into the souls of all these, my brethren, who have so unselfishly dedicated their lives to the enlightenment of their fellows who sit in spiritual darkness. You are all the children of light; therefore stumble not into the misunderstanding entanglements of mortal suspicion and human intolerance. If you are ennobled, by the grace of faith, to love unbelievers, should you not also equally love those who are your fellow believers in the far-spreading household of faith? Remember, as you love one another, all men will know that you are my disciples.
Bradley opined, “Those of us who claim to be believers and members of the spiritual brotherhood cannot despise others nor abandon our duty to shine the light of love as we walk by. We are ambassadors of the kingdom of God in the kingdoms of mortals. Those who are lost amid the darkness of fear need us…..the Most Highs and the Supreme depend upon us. Those ones caught up in pleasures and distractions and those victims of the hate and greed of others are, after all, children of God and abide in the family of God. It is difficult to love those who do not love. Still working on that challenge!”
Jesus told his apostles to make sure to get out of Dodge to avoid the Roman march. Adam and Eve carefully selected “higher spiritual” people….you FLOOR me with the quotes you pluck out, Bradley, hopefully to lecture YOURSELF because the presumption of setting up such challenges for the “poor” is “inexcusable” in TODAY’S economic situation where the parade of people going to jail marches on and is the visual study aide to your sanguine acceptance of, and I quote, “The profit motive is but another level of primitivism that delivers progressive opportunity for transcendence to an improved version of still more primitivism to still overcome….again and again – this is the nature of evolution.”
Maybe consider how much of your interpretations of Jesus et al in the Urantia Book is heavily influenced by Nihilism?
http://www.iep.utm.edu/nihilism/
The Declaration of Independence was, in essence, a divorce from the King – irreconcilable differences. The “spiritual brotherhood” has the same kind of “right” to separate themselves from “primitivism” as Israel reminds the world every day that THEY have that right to separate from “primitivism”, no matter how expensive (blood and treasure) it is getting for the rest of the world to let Israel have that “right”.
Isn’t divorce – the loss of “love” among former “lovers” – the best option? What a misread of Jesus’s mission to suggest we not enjoy the reciprocal DIVINE love between God and God-knowing “man” amongst ourselves! We became a HUMAN race because Andon and Fonta left the tribe…
And I speak from recent experience, a year’s worth. Over 2000 hours of videotape submitted for “judgment” and about 7000 people in my car where the conversation could go in any direction – and get this – ONE incident where I played rough with a “mouth” who was leaving the airport to go to a WalMart and then wanted to be dropped off back into the terminal without going through security, and THAT is the only footage on record proving my “unprofessionalism” in that situation – 1999 hours of good footage to prove there is more to me, NOT STORED.
Also, what is not in that “record” is the finding of a spot check of how airport security was working conducted within two weeks of my “unprofessional” conduct found that guns were smuggled into the airport over 90% of the time – a BIG FAIL. Everyone got sent to training….the JOB is always important, the ego (politics) is not…right?
So, Bradley, no matter how bright I can turn on the spirit light, only the dog responds to it these days by worshipping me
BTW, things are markedly worse this summer than last – that solar system without gravity in YOUR greed is good social system is a “wrong direction” everyone SANE is seeing…and as you admitted, and I am not holding it against you by mentioning this, you just do not have the right amount of divine love for every situation of primitivism. My recent INTENSE EXPERIENCE – over 2000 hours of footage recorded of me interacting with 7000 people (random global humanity on vacation from their daily routines) moves me to instruct you to consider that you need a Plan B to deal with those who do NOT know God, for whatever reason (choice or biology).
Sabinatu wrote: …public seem to accept this modern form of debt-bondage…Sabinatu reading back through some of your recent posts I see that you have a keen understanding of the problems of our materialistic secular society and I share a concern at where all this is heading. We are seeing evidence of extreme positions as the fabric of democratic society is put under enormous stress. With the concentration of global wealth being confined to the machinations of the elite corporate “club” the average man and woman in the street is exchanging one form of slavery for another.A quote from the link on “debt slavery” you provided, is shown below:…dictatorship is by the aristocracy, against the public. It’s just like the U.S. dictatorship — competing parties, both or all of which represent the aristocracy, against the public; none representing the public, against the aristocracy. Conservatives support it, because they support the aristocracy. (A reader replied to this, “it isn’t just the doctrinaire conservatives that support the new aristocracy it is the majority of the public”; but the majority of the public is conservative, they’re devoted to myths…
This is why the “myths” that the general public respond to need a spiritual renewal that gives life its meaning.
The ideal state undertakes to regulate social conduct only enough to take violence out of individual competition and to prevent unfairness in personal initiative. Here is a great problem in statehood: How can you guarantee peace and quiet in industry, pay the taxes to support state power, and at the same time prevent taxation from handicapping industry and keep the state from becoming parasitical or tyrannical? [Paper 71:5.2, page 805:2]
Corporations have made an art form of avoiding tax, they have a budget for an army of lawyers engaged to ensure this.
Ethical awareness is required to ensure fairness in personal initiative. Wealth sharing must be the next phase after wealth generation.
Even though the current manifestation of the wealthy elite is social divisiveness, rather than social unity, it cannot last, for such a course is inherently destructive of even the means by which it grew. Representative government with its universal structure of the separation of powers into executive, legislative, judiciary, has within itself the mechanisms of self correction.
The average man and woman are more inclined to accept the gospel message because of natural humility and sincerity, unaffected by the dictates of status.
Jesus continued to teach, saying: “The unbelievers will not at first listen to the teachings of this spirit, but the sons of light will all receive him gladly and with a whole heart. And you shall know this spirit when he comes even as you have known me, and you will receive this gift in your hearts, and he will abide with you. You thus perceive that I am not going to leave you without help and guidance. I will not leave you desolate. Today I can be with you only in person. In the times to come I will be with you and all other men who desire my presence, wherever you may be, and with each of you at the same time. Do you not discern that it is better for me to go away; that I leave you in the flesh so that I may the better and the more fully be with you in the spirit? [Paper 180:4.1, page 1948:2]
…you will be indwelt by the Son as well as by the Father. And these gifts of heaven will ever work the one with the other even as the Father and I have wrought on earth and before your very eyes as one person, the Son of Man. And this spirit friend will bring to your remembrance everything I have taught you.” [Paper 180:4.3, page 1948:4]
It was for the “common people” Jesus came, for the average person is the backbone of society and will gladly hear the saving message of sonship with God and consequent dignity of brotherhood within the universe family of mortals and angels—all personalities of creation.
The common people heard Jesus gladly, and they will again respond to the presentation of his sincere human life of consecrated religious motivation if such truths shall again be proclaimed to the world. The people heard him gladly because he was one of them, an unpretentious layman; the world’s greatest religious teacher was indeed a layman. [Paper 196:1.4, page 2090:5]
We can all relate to Jesus because he was one of us. This appeal to the “common people” has given me thought that it would be a good topic of conversation, worthy of consideration on its own merits.
Sabinatu wrote: …This is about REALITY.Creative persons willing to face reality fearlessly and with honesty, have the capacity to effect lasting change for good.That which the enlightened and reflective human imagination of spiritual teaching and leading wholeheartedly and unselfishly wants to do and be, becomes measurably creative in accordance with the degree of mortal dedication to the divine doing of the Father’s will. When man goes in partnership with God, great things may, and do, happen. [Paper 132:7.9, page 1467:5]Sabinatu well met my brother, I salute the spirit in you as we walk together with God.Sabinatu wrote: …gene pool of refugees from WWII war torn Europe…BTW my family wading pool—Latvia.Bradly wrote: But regardless of which view is the more accurate, we live when we live and where we live and must meet the challenge presented to our daily walk and material life to not just get along and “fit in”, but to live exemplary lives.Thanks for bringing your thoughts, references and warmth to the discussion..Vern wrote: Creative persons willing to face reality fearlessly and with honesty, have the capacity to effect lasting change for good.And thank you Vern for staying the course and for lifting the discussion up. I’m glad you both picked up where I left off several days ago. Both of you have a calming effect on the discussion, and I very much appreciate your work.Maybe consider how much of your interpretations of Jesus et al in the Urantia Book is heavily influenced by Nihilism?
Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy.
Sorry but I don’t understand. None of my philosophy or interpretations of anything at all is so “influenced”. My loyalties are clear, even for a tadpole. And I believe in much and have full confidence in the Most Highs on this Shrine of Nebadon!! Never have been a pessimist or fatalist either. Met plenty though. The text posted is not my lecture, it is the Master’s instructions to all kingdom believers and the brotherhood of the spirit.
178:1.5 (1930.2) As mortal and material men, you are indeed citizens of the earthly kingdoms, and you should be good citizens, all the better for having become reborn spirit sons of the heavenly kingdom. As faith-enlightened and spirit-liberated sons of the kingdom of heaven, you face a double responsibility of duty to man and duty to God while you voluntarily assume a third and sacred obligation: service to the brotherhood of God-knowing believers.
Sorry but I don’t understand. None of my philosophy or interpretations of anything at all is so “influenced”. My loyalties are clear, even for a tadpole. And I believe in much and have full confidence in the Most Highs on this Shrine of Nebadon!! Never have been a pessimist or fatalist either. Met plenty though. The text posted is not my lecture, it is the Master’s instructions to all kingdom believers and the brotherhood of the spirit.
Bradly, one can understand in your beliefs, where you indicate that above (as highlighted) in red, that it is your belief but, one must also keep in mind that many read the Urantia Book and take note of the authors statements which have indicated that the words found within have been modified to serve to the modern reader and that which has been modified for that purpose can also take on variations of understanding, where much has been redirected from the third epochal revelation and emphasized to make for better reading, to be sure. However, to take verbatim that which has been modified and assumed that the “Most Highs” are in total control of the circumstances which befall Urantia, would need more validation as to the actions behind, what would be considered, as confidence in current event, where if these events were the results of the “Most Highs” then there should be more discussion on the circumstances surrounding these events, other than to assume that all is well on Urantia. Also, assuming that the Master has presented instructions through the UB without taking into consideration the admitted modifications to text, by the revelators, which you have in the past indicated as possibly being Midwayer’s, should we not reevaluate all possible circumstances as to the reasoning for such modifications and examine the roots as to their newly presented format, other than to just believe, in the verbatim presented without additional meanings being that the time from the Masters original instructions, although possible relevant to current times, may need to be slightly modified based on events from then to now?
The written word can have many meanings depending on one’s ability to match the times being presented, therefore what you may understand from reading this text, could be different to others, albeit your interpretation, is yours in faith to believe but may be different to others based on their own experiences which may have taken on different paths?
However, in your reply, you failed to site the entire quote regarding “Nihilism” as presented and only presented your immediate take from the quote. which I present below:
Nihilism
“Nihilism is the belief that all values are baseless and that nothing can be known or communicated. It is often associated with extreme pessimism and a radical skepticism that condemns existence. A true nihilist would believe in nothing, have no loyalties, and no purpose other than, perhaps, an impulse to destroy. While few philosophers would claim to be nihilists, nihilism is most often associated with Friedrich Nietzsche who argued that its corrosive effects would eventually destroy all moral, religious, and metaphysical convictions and precipitate the greatest crisis in human history. In the 20th century, nihilistic themes–epistemological failure, value destruction, and cosmic purposelessness–have preoccupied artists, social critics, and philosophers. Mid-century, for example, the existentialists helped popularize tenets of nihilism in their attempts to blunt its destructive potential. By the end of the century, existential despair as a response to nihilism gave way to an attitude of indifference, often associated with antifoundationalism.”“43:3.4 (488.6) Down through the ages there has been great confusion on Urantia regarding the various universe rulers. Many later teachers confused their vague and indefinite tribal deities with the Most High Fathers. Still later, the Hebrews merged all of these celestial rulers into a composite Deity. One teacher understood that the Most Highs were not the Supreme Rulers, for he said, “He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.” In the Urantia records it is very difficult at times to know exactly who is referred to by the term “Most High.” But Daniel fully understood these matters. He said, “The Most High rules in the kingdom of men and gives it to whomsoever he will.””
Okay, can we take a minute here to make sure no one believes that they are reporting, as a tadpole, DIRECTLY to “The Most Highs” as those beings are introduced to us in The Urantia Book.
“Someone” could introduce themselves as a “Most High” as a nom de plume on Urantia Forums, but that is a puerile “identity theft” schtick….no one will believe it is “real” – LOL
I understand that because the REAL “Most Highs” are involved in maintaining the operations, if you will, of the wheel of “Absolute” in time and space, the free will choices of us “tadpoles” do not impact what they do, so if they had DIRECT contact with us, it will be perceived by us as an experience of Absolute “power” that negates our free-will choice….not sure I am getting this across correctly in one try – how us “tadpoles”, if you will, do NOT report directly to the Most Highs, nor do they DIRECTLY assign tasks to a tadpole – they work, directly, mostly through the Seraphim…willing to explore better understanding about the Most Highs….
In the meantime, I agree that an absolute-power noose on the material lives of tadpoles through a “greed is good” global economy that is now, basically, as crazy as a solar system without gravity, would invite a Most High to take hold of the keel through the agencies in place for the delegation of the tasks involved in HOW the ship gets back on course. Jesus quipped that it’s a problem with “distribution”. No kiddin’
Just because GRAVITY is a free energy source does not mean that human labor is the financial equivalent in a “global” market – meaning human labor needs to be done for “free” for the benefit of – which? – Most Highs, Bradley?
However, to take verbatim that which has been modified and assumed that the “Most Highs” are in total control of the circumstances which befall Urantia, would need more validation as to the actions behind, what would be considered, as confidence in current event, where if these events were the results of the “Most Highs” then there should be more discussion on the circumstances surrounding these events, other than to assume that all is well on Urantia.
Me here: Greetings Midi! While I am reluctant to take the discussion away from the topic, I do want to be responsive. First let me say that I did not say, or mean to say or infer, that “the “…Most Highs” are in total control of the circumstances which befall Urantia…”. The Most Highs are charged with epochal progress and eventuation of planetary destiny, Light and Life. The “circumstances” are the lemons provided by the passing generations of mortals and our free will choices, which the agents of the Most Highs, must then make lemonade out of over time through the slow process of social evolution. Also I do not think that “…. all is well on Urantia.” Social and epochal progress is a pretty ugly business from any tadpole’s perspective… and mighty slow too!! I only meant to say I have “confidence” in the ultimate destiny of our world and in the plan, the power, the purpose, and the ability of those in charge of the process.
As to the accuracy of the UB and my belief system: I understand the text to clearly state that the authors wrote purposefully, specifically, and accurately, to the best of their ability given the caveats of translation and the mortal mind’s abilities to understand, a text book of knowledge to reduce confusions and errors and I accept that claim. But my core beliefs come by way of the Gospel and my experience with the spirit within – I believe in a paternal and personal creator who loves me and this results in the family of all creation according to God’s purpose and plan which provides for an eternity of adventure in a universe that is based on love. The rest of the details provided in the UB confirm this and add significant comfort by such additional descriptions of the vastness of the universe of universes. I love studying the text and making connections of new context for my expanding perspective but my faith is in God and my experience says such faith is well founded and rewarded.
Okay, can we take a minute here to make sure no one believes that they are reporting, as a tadpole, DIRECTLY to “The Most Highs” as those beings are introduced to us in The Urantia Book. “Someone” could introduce themselves as a “Most High” as a nom de plume on Urantia Forums, but that is a puerile “identity theft” schtick….no one will believe it is “real” – LOL I understand that because the REAL “Most Highs” are involved in maintaining the operations, if you will, of the wheel of “Absolute” in time and space, the free will choices of us “tadpoles” do not impact what they do, so if they had DIRECT contact with us, it will be perceived by us as an experience of Absolute “power” that negates our free-will choice….not sure I am getting this across correctly in one try – how us “tadpoles”, if you will, do NOT report directly to the Most Highs, nor do they DIRECTLY assign tasks to a tadpole – they work, directly, mostly through the Seraphim…willing to explore better understanding about the Most Highs….
Me here: Very funny!! I am neither reporting to or receiving instructions from any party….except by and through the spirit within and my poor TA is having issues with my receptivity regarding any clarity of instruction or communication!! Nonetheless, the spiritual brotherhood is tasked with service and love in our daily walk here and now….and always. Love is the power that creates, propels, preserves, and perpetuates creation. My job is to get into that slipstream of divine current….and enjoy the ride!!
Bradley wrote, “My job is to get into that slipstream of divine current….and enjoy the ride!!”
How well that ride goes will depend on how much you do to make this ride in the NOW – perfect, “Social and epochal progress is a pretty ugly business from any tadpole’s perspective… and mighty slow too!!”
Need some wipe and go tissues…?
This reply has been reported for inappropriate content.
Coming out from silent reading of this thread to say that I find some of the posts here confusing and, frankly, not conducive to constructive or intelligent discussion of the topic at hand. I am sure there are other forums where one can exercise one’s desire to pick apart and negatively interpret others’ contributions, but personally I find more value in discussions that are supportive of others and focused on TUB insights and contemplations.
I don’t even know what ‘wipe and go tissues’ means in the context of Sabinatu’s post, above, but it doesn’t come across to me as an intent to be friendly or helpful.
Thankfully, we can remind ourselves that nothing of value is ever lost. Truth, beauty and goodness are all we need to focus on and don’t worry about the rest.
Recently, a FaceBook friend posted something they deemed as “wise and realistic” – a Pope Francis quote: “It is not necessary to believe in God to be a good person. In a way, the traditional notion of God is outdated. One can be spiritual but not religious. It is not necessary to go to church and give money – for many, nature can be a church. Some of the best people in history did not believe in God, while some of the worst deed were done in His name.” So the “Vicar of Christ” is promoting the psychological pablum of propaganda instead of following Jesus who never deviated from REVEALING GOD to humanity? I will admit to it being a pet peeve of mine – when people do NOT do the job they were “hired” to do. If the Pope can’t find the time, space and resources to stay focused on REVEALING GOD to humanity, then who else has the “authority” to “share” the religion OF Jesus with the billion+ “believers” under his “spiritual” stewardship?
It appears that the Pope did NOT say that!
lol sorry wrongly edit my post. … eventually will repost concerning how much I agree to Keryn’s point of view.
Just want to say how much I appreciate Keryn and Andre’s participation in this community of students and hope others will also find voice here to help guide the group dynamic and contribute to the group wisdom as we ponder the way of the pilgrim’s path. The more who come and speak the better for all. May all feel welcome who are committed to the paradise adventure, the kingdom of believers, the friendly universe….and to spiritual brotherhood!
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