What is spiritual brotherhood?

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  • #16479
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    Sabinatu
    Blocked

    @Vern, that’s what I said – the INDIVIDUAL is the only authority, if you will, regarding entrance into spiritual brotherhood – if they choose to enter, they are in.  God only accepts a free-will choice.

    Paper 99 is a gem – it makes clear that “…True religion does oppose violence as a technique of social evolution….”.  That is more than enough of a mission to be loyal to in these challenging times for a spiritual brotherhood that chooses to use true religion as a power for stabilization – of the individual and the group.

    99:1.4 (1087.1) “Religion has no new duties to perform, but it is urgently called upon to function as a wise guide and experienced counselor in all of these new and rapidly changing human situations. Society is becoming more mechanical, more compact, more complex, and more critically interdependent. Religion must function to prevent these new and intimate interassociations from becoming mutually retrogressive or even destructive. Religion must act as the cosmic salt which prevents the ferments of progression from destroying the cultural savor of civilization. These new social relations and economic upheavals can result in lasting brotherhood only by the ministry of religion.”

    This kind of stuff won’t stabilize anything, although it sure got me laughing: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/making-sense/monkeys-humans-common-innate-sense-economic-justice/ As usual these days, the comments section (from the peanut gallery) that followed the article was wiser than the lesson.

     

    #16482
    Mara
    Mara
    Participant
    Sabinatu wrote:  @Mara – I entered your last post to me at this site for analysis at this website https://watson-pi-demo.mybluemix.net/ and it helped me understand what you DO care about – “Your choices are driven by a desire for prestige” Sorry I can’t help you with that.
    Thanks for making an effort to understand what I care about.  :-)
    .
    The old way was described in terms of an-eye-for-an-eye – the paying back attitude of retaliation.  Jesus corrects this and teaches what on the face of it seems counter-intuitive, return-good-for-evil, or as stated this way: “. . . resist not evil treatment of one’s personality, evil injury to one’s feelings of personal dignity.”
    103:5:2   This ideaideal of doing good to others — the impulse to deny the ego something for the benefit of one’s neighbor — is very circumscribed at first. Primitive man regards as neighbor only those very close to him, those who treat him neighborly; as religious civilization advances, one’s neighbor expands in concept to embrace the clan, the tribe, the nation. And then Jesus enlarged the neighbor scope to embrace the whole of humanity, even that we should love our enemies. And there is something inside of every normal human being that tells him this teaching is moral — right. Even those who practice this ideal least, admit that it is right in theory.
    .
    I have trouble understanding some of your remarks.  I “get” the UB references.  I often do not “get” your comments concerning the way you are thinking as related to those references.  Sorry to be so dense.  Maybe I’m just going to have to adjust to the fact that I’m not going to understand you, and move on.
    #16483
    Avatar
    Sabinatu
    Blocked
    I have trouble understanding some of your remarks. I “get” the UB references. I often do not “get” your comments concerning the way you are thinking as related to those references. Sorry to be so dense. Maybe I’m just going to have to adjust to the fact that I’m not going to understand you, and move on.
    The trouble you have “understanding” my “remarks” is definitely your problem, Mara.  Not mine.
    Considering this conversation, that you started, has been limited to 3 people talking over and around each other, now with you publically declaring your intentions to just ignore me in the future, not sure where a lecture about an “eye for an eye” fits in – did I ignore you first?  LOL
    #16484
    Avatar
    Sabinatu
    Blocked

    99:1.4 (1087.1) “Religion has no new duties to perform, but it is urgently called upon to function as a wise guide and experienced counselor in all of these new and rapidly changing human situations. Society is becoming more mechanical, more compact, more complex, and more critically interdependent. Religion must function to prevent these new and intimate interassociations from becoming mutually retrogressive or even destructive. Religion must act as the cosmic salt which prevents the ferments of progression from destroying the cultural savor of civilization. These new social relations and economic upheavals can result in lasting brotherhood only by the ministry of religion.”

    Yup, changes and more changes….who doesn’t love President Carter?  So when he makes a statement about “democracy” in USA today, you sit up and take notice:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/jimmy-carter-is-correct-t_b_7922788.html

    cut and pasted from that article – “Furthermore, the new age of aristocratic control is not merely national but international in scope; so, the global aristocracy have probably found the formula that will keep them in control until they destroy the entire world. What’s especially interesting is that, with all of the many tax-exempt, “non-profit” “charities,” which aristocrats have established, none of them is warring to defeat the aristocracy itself — to defeat the aristocrats’ system of exploitation of the public. It’s the one thing they won’t create a ‘charity’ for; none of them will go to war against the exploitative interests of themselves and of their own exploitative peers. They’re all in this together, even though they do compete amongst themselves for dominance, as to which ones of them will lead against the public. And the public seem to accept this modern form of debt-bondage, perhaps because of the ‘news’ they see, and because of the news they don’t see (such as this).” end quote

    True religion is the only power needed to stop the global war, drug and slave lords’ juggernaut hijacking of the SPIRITUAL “kingdom”.

    Always a paradox…”religion”….or as Bugs Bunny says, “He don’t know me very well, do he?”

    #16485
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    Sabinatu wrote:  @Mara – I entered your last post to me at this site for analysis at this website https://watson-pi-demo.mybluemix.net/ and it helped me understand what you DO care about – “Your choices are driven by a desire for prestige” Sorry I can’t help you with that.

    and: The trouble you have “understanding” my “remarks” is definitely your problem, Mara. Not mine.

    Greetings once again!  I find these rather odd things to say on a friendly forum, especially on the topic under discussion.  I’ve known Mara for years and her patience and kindness and inclusion are rather legendary around the Forum and the Association.  As to the website noted, a random sampling of Mara’s posts I pasted at the site brought forth this report on Mara:

    “You are social.  You are empathetic: you feel what others feel and are compassionate towards them. You are confident: you are hard to embarrass and are self-confident most of the time. And you are laid-back: you appreciate a relaxed pace in life.  Your choices are driven by a desire for well-being.  You are relatively unconcerned with taking pleasure in life: you prefer activities with a purpose greater than just personal enjoyment. You consider helping others to guide a large part of what you do: you think it is important to take care of the people around you.”

    Some of the values placed by the computer on Mara based on the writing submission:

    Openness  62%

    Adventurousness  51%

    Intellect  80%

    Self-efficacy 83%

    Extraversion  97%

    Agreeableness  84%

    Sympathy  100%

    Self-transcendence  97%

     

    Not that I find anything too reliable by a machine’s analysis of a few hundred words, but I also must agree with the results posted. Interesting.

     

    Busy for me right now….but reading along.  Thanks for the excellent references.  And I count 7 posters…and sometimes the only approach to perspective is working around the edges circling in on context and relationship.  Well done and thanks!

    ;-)

    #16486
    Avatar
    Sabinatu
    Blocked

    @Bradley – I also entered my posts for analysis, did you enter yours?

    But thanks for the opportunity to clear up misunderstandings…

    1. I only entered the ONE post of Mara’s that addressed me directly, and you seem to be smart enough to figure out which one that is….temporally…

    2. Since I joined the conversation, it has been MOSTLY Mara and Vern chiming in and now Mara admits that ignoring me going forward works for her the best.

    Like everything else in this life – you’ll know it when you are in it….especially when it is “invisible” like the spiritual brotherhood…

     

    #16487
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    I have trouble understanding some of your remarks. I “get” the UB references. I often do not “get” your comments concerning the way you are thinking as related to those references. Sorry to be so dense. Maybe I’m just going to have to adjust to the fact that I’m not going to understand you, and move on.

     

    2. Since I joined the conversation, it has been MOSTLY Mara and Vern chiming in and now Mara admits that ignoring me going forward works for her the best.

     

    Me here:  I read no such admission.  She apologized for being so “dense” (hahaha…) and confesses her inability to understand what you say (or truly, parts of what you say).  I found her statement to be humble and tolerant myself and didn’t say anything approaching “ignoring” you going forward.  But I am confident she will ignore such a clumsy and unfriendly claim.

    I agree with your proposed solution to our world’s ills….spiritualization and personal religious experience.  This re-prioritization will eventually lead us forward into greater mortal epochal progression.  I do not think the mechanism of capitalism is the culprit for greed; that lies with the capitalist.  Capitalism is the mechanical system of labor and craft specialization within an exchange mechanism which has resulted in rapid progress into a leisure class that delivers desirable opportunities for each world citizen.  Unfortunately so far, that mechanism is dominated by a few very self centered people whose greed surpasses compassion and altruism.  But the poor and working class themselves are demonstrating an increasing selflessness and philanthropy I find compelling and inspiring.  And some very wealthy individuals are changing the face of generosity by wealth as well…..far fewer self named halls of self worship and more misquito nets and medicine and self sufficient ag and education, etc.

    This planetary progress thing is very slow to tadpoles who live but a “moment” in epochal time frames.  I am confident the Most Highs are quite successful in bringing the kingdom and the brotherhood into full fruition.

    Peace and best wishes.  :good:

    Yes, I ran two tests from two forums on myself….pretty consistent from one to the next….and interesting.

    #16488
    Avatar
    Sabinatu
    Blocked

    Mara wrote, “I disagree.  The conclusion you have reached is neither obvious, nor is your belief correct that no one else is going to do it.  Let the Pope do his thing.  Let science do its thing.  I don’t understand why you are all wigged out about the Pope and our “biology” and the 6th and 7th adjutant mind-spirits.  We are in a era of religion becoming a private matter.  It is my opinion that private individuals like you and me who are motivated by the will to loving service are the ones who are going to do it and be it – the tide that lifts all boats.”

    Ok, let’s get into it, Bradley.  EVERYONE can follow along in this thread, so far…

    quick topic change – PLEASE, site Admins, stop downloading malware and also messing with my ability to post something I spent too much time on that I should know better than bother, but at some point, enough is enough…. so here is the first SCHTICK where I was CLEARLY talking about the JOB the Pope when I said that if HE does not do it, no one else will BECAUE THAT IS THE JOB OF THE POPE.

    #16489
    Avatar
    Sabinatu
    Blocked

    @Bradley – Mara’s conversation – directly with ME – consists of a series of posts where she was certain that I was WRONG, talking about stuff she was not interested in and or I was just spewing “poppycock” and finally where I fined tuned the “logic” enough to where neither one of those schticks was going to work, it was the internet equivalent of dismissing everything about the person – the person themselves as well as what they wrote – as being NOT understandable.  When are you people going to stop doing THAT to people?

    Face to face – if you say to a person, “I do NOT understand you”, Miss Manners even in today’s age, would tell you that that could only be a sane thing to say to another person’s face is if the next step in the interaction is “THIS is what I do not understand, can you clarify THIS point specifically…?”

    In re-reading the entire thread, I apologize to midi for not getting into what would have been a much more interesting conversation with a person who did get where I was going and asked specific questions about the little piece of the post that s/he found interesting….

    You, Bradley, seem to believe that you can elevate Mara to a status of sainthood that even SHE is not claiming to have and that is way too much pressure for her to continue to live up to and especially if she can only achieve it when someone else comes along to knock down another person for her to stay on the soap box.  She is not perfect and neither am I – we had the conversation we had and it was, OBVIOUSLY, not what she was expecting but I certainly hope that she grasped the TRUTH that it will never be up to her, you, midi, Vern, even the Pope, or ME to decide who is in or out of the “spiritual brotherhood”.

    #16490
    Avatar
    Sabinatu
    Blocked

    @Larry Watkins – talk about being too high-maintenance….scheesh….

    #16491
    Vern
    Vern
    Participant

    Hello mara, thanks for initiating this topic and thanks to all who have participated in it. I have learned the following:

    1. I had an erroneous view that people who claimed to be “atheists” could be of the spiritual brotherhood. Thanks for challenging me on that one mara. By definition, the spiritual brotherhood comprises belivers who are God knowing and are actively doing his will. A sincere moral person can be unconsciously co-operting with Adjuster leading by manifesting fruits of the spirit, however, it is my view now, that consciousness of sonship with the Father is that added factor of informed faith which enables the power fulcrum of the Spirit of Truth as a dynamic living experience of the believing personality.
    2. Participation in this forum is small, its potential for good—wider appeal—is yet to be determined. If slow growth is the aim, that aim has been fully realised. However, slow growth must mean some growth. Yes, I know patience is a virtue, we are in for the long haul.  I also know, if you love people they will draw near you.
    3. Knowing also, spiritual brotherhood is characterised by unity, it does not reflect well when misunderstandings arise, rather than debating the idea, the character of participants is challenged. This teaches me, unity is still an ideal worth aiming for. Just as, while one of us is in chains, none is free.

    Rather than getting into areas which are divisive, I was thinking of Shakespeare’s play “All’s well that ends well.”

    A distraction (a change is as good as a holiday)

    Play Summary

    Helena, the low-born ward of a Spanish countess, is in love with the countess’s son Bertram, who is indifferent to her. Bertram goes to Paris to replace his late father as attendant to the ailing King of France. Helena, the daughter of a recently deceased doctor, follows Bertram, ostensibly to offer the King her services as a healer. The King is skeptical, and she guarantees the cure with her life: if he dies, she will be put to death, but if he lives, she may choose a husband from the court. The King is cured and Helena chooses Bertram, who rejects her, owing to her poverty and low status. The King forces him to marry her, but after the ceremony Bertram immediately goes to war in Italy without so much as a goodbye kiss. He says that he will only marry her after she has borne his child and wears his family ring. In Italy, Bertram is a successful warrior and also a successful seducer of local virgins. Helena follows him to Italy, befriends Diana, a virgin with whom Bertram is infatuated, and they arrange for Helena to take Diana’s place in bed. Diana obtains Bertram’s ring in exchange for one of Helena’s. In this way Helena, without Bertram’s knowledge, consummates their marriage and wears his ring. Helena returns to the Spanish countess, who is horrified at what her son has done, and claims Helena as her child in Bertram’s place. Helena fakes her death, and Bertram, thinking he is free of her, comes home. He tries to marry a local lord’s daughter, but Diana shows up and breaks up the engagement. Helena appears and explains the ring swap, announcing that she has fulfilled Bertram’s challenge; Bertram, impressed by all she has done to win him, swears his love to her. Thus all ends well. There is a subplot about Parolles, a disloyal associate of Bertram’s. A recurring theme throughout the play is the similarity between love and war – conquering/seducing/betraying/outmaneuvering.

     

    #16499
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    I’ve known Mara for years and her patience and kindness and inclusion are rather legendary around the Forum and the Association.

     

    I did not intend flattery by this acknowledgement of my perception of Mara’s character and qualities gained over the past years and I’ve never witnessed her on any soap box when studying the UB and exploring its lessons together.  The machine “reading” was by the machine, not by me and I remain dubious as to the depth and quality of its character assessments (although it is fascinating in its perceptions).  I have much to learn about friendliness I suppose but that was my only intent – not claiming sainthood for anyone.

    I agree that the spiritual brotherhood is a corp of self selected ones, the whole group known only to those on-high, whose faith in God activates them in their motives, intentions, priorities, thoughts, choices and acts by the power of love into service to others.  Often, such ones find others in the brotherhood and work in collaborations of mutual purpose and process bringing forth even more energy and power into service ministry.  To the degree that they combine their sincerity with discernment, experience, and wisdom, this group assists in the elevation of our world and one another by such efforts of noble intention.

    159:3.12 (1766.8) When my children once become self-conscious of the assurance of the divine presence, such a faith will expand the mind, ennoble the soul, reinforce the personality, augment the happiness, deepen the spirit perception, and enhance the power to love and be loved.

    159:3.13 (1767.1) Teach all believers that those who enter the kingdom are not thereby rendered immune to the accidents of time or to the ordinary catastrophes of nature. Believing the gospel will not prevent getting into trouble, but it will insure that you shall be unafraid when trouble does overtake you. If you dare to believe in me and wholeheartedly proceed to follow after me, you shall most certainly by so doing enter upon the sure pathway to trouble. I do not promise to deliver you from the waters of adversity, but I do promise to go with you through all of them.

    :good:

    #16500
    Bradly
    Bradly
    Participant

    99:7.5 (1093.3) Economic interdependence and social fraternity will ultimately conduce to brotherhood. Man is naturally a dreamer, but science is sobering him so that religion can presently activate him with far less danger of precipitating fanatical reactions. Economic necessities tie man up with reality, and personal religious experience brings this same man face to face with the eternal realities of an ever-expanding and progressing cosmic citizenship.

    39:3.7 (433.1) 4. Ethical Sensitizers. It is the mission of these seraphim to foster and to promote the growth of creature appreciation of the morality of interpersonal relationships, for such is the seed and secret of the continued and purposeful growth of society and government, human or superhuman. These enhancers of ethical appreciation function anywhere and everywhere they may be of service, as volunteer counselors to the planetary rulers and as exchange teachers on the system training worlds. You will not, however, come under their full guidance until you reach the brotherhood schools on Edentia, where they will quicken your appreciation of those very truths of fraternity which you will even then be so earnestly exploring by the actual experience of living with the univitatia in the social laboratories of Edentia, the seventy satellites of the Norlatiadek capital.

    117:4.5 (1284.1) Any isolated action of the personal parts of the finite is comparatively irrelevant to the eventual appearance of the Supreme Whole, but the whole is nonetheless dependent on the total acts of the manifold parts. The personality of the individual mortal is insignificant in the face of the total of Supremacy, but the personality of each human being represents an irreplaceable meaning-value in the finite; personality, having once been expressed, never again finds identical expression except in the continuing existence of that living personality.

    117:4.6 (1284.2) And so, as we strive for self-expression, the Supreme is striving in us, and with us, for deity expression. As we find the Father, so has the Supreme again found the Paradise Creator of all things. As we master the problems of self-realization, so is the God of experience achieving almighty supremacy in the universes of time and space.

    117:4.7 (1284.3) Mankind does not ascend effortlessly in the universe, neither does the Supreme evolve without purposeful and intelligent action. Creatures do not attain perfection by mere passivity, nor can the spirit of Supremacy factualize the power of the Almighty without unceasing service ministry to the finite creation.

    117:4.8 (1284.4) The temporal relation of man to the Supreme is the foundation for cosmic morality, the universal sensitivity to, and acceptance of, duty. This is a morality which transcends the temporal sense of relative right and wrong; it is a morality directly predicated on the self-conscious creature’s appreciation of experiential obligation to experiential Deity. Mortal man and all other finite creatures are created out of the living potential of energy, mind, and spirit existent in the Supreme. It is upon the Supreme that the Adjuster-mortal ascender draws for the creation of the immortal and divine character of a finaliter. It is out of the very reality of the Supreme that the Adjuster, with the consent of the human will, weaves the patterns of the eternal nature of an ascending son of God.

    117:4.9 (1284.5) The evolution of Adjuster progress in the spiritualizing and eternalizing of a human personality is directly productive of an enlargement of the sovereignty of the Supreme. Such achievements in human evolution are at the same time achievements in the evolutionary actualization of the Supreme. While it is true that creatures could not evolve without the Supreme, it is probably also true that the evolution of the Supreme can never be fully attained independent of the completed evolution of all creatures. Herein lies the great cosmic responsibility of self-conscious personalities: That Supreme Deity is in a certain sense dependent on the choosing of the mortal will. And the mutual progression of creature evolution and of Supreme evolution is faithfully and fully indicated to the Ancients of Days over the inscrutable mechanisms of universe reflectivity.

    Me here:  I think the brotherhood is those minds who purposefully live and strive to become ever more capable servants and citizens and cooperate with the Spirit within.

    :-)

    #16502
    Avatar
    Sabinatu
    Blocked

    @Vern wrote, “Knowing also, spiritual brotherhood is characterised by unity, it does not reflect well when misunderstandings arise, rather than debating the idea, the character of participants is challenged. This teaches me, unity is still an ideal worth aiming for. Just as, while one of us is in chains, none is free.”

    Indeed.

    Discerning and doing God’s Will on a planet seared with rebellion is WHY Michael of Nebadon chose Urantia for his last bestowal. Urantia provided the MAXIMUM CONTRAST between “what is God’s will” and what is NOT.  A one liner REVEALED TRUTH in TUB oft forgotten/ignored and trotted out in the most cynical and perverse way by the people committing iniquity against others as “you need problems otherwise you would not become a better person”.  Psychotic reasoning “interpreting” TUB?!  That’s the new “Paul” leadership?

    There had to be something about the opportunity in the USA for a “spiritual brotherhood” to function safely, as far as Midwayer Contact was concerned, otherwise TUB would not have landed in Chicago.

    I speculate it was the CONTEXT, the philosophy, the SPIRIT, around which law and order was establishing itself in the rugged frontiers – my modern re-phrasing is this – EVERY human being has the GOD GIVEN RIGHT to make their life less miserable through honest work.

    Here is the CONTEXT of “spiritual brotherhood” unity that still is the LIGHT and I am trotting it out because the list of “inexcusable” sins arising from “Greed is Good” is far longer than what people were fed up with in the “colonies”:

    http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

    cut and pasted from the CONTEXT for the “constitution” – “Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.–Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.”

    Indeed, let FACTS be submitted to a candid world.  “Greed is good” was crap – yes crap – heaved upon the “spiritual brotherhood”.

    Just substitute “to throw off such a Government” with to “throw off these isms – Nihilism, Hedonism and their guiding spirit of Anarchy”.

    BTW, this is not even remotely about “revenge”, or “karma” or about being the dutiful little sycophant wondering about just how much mayhem and misery will be enough for the committed capitalist “boss” who worships his math formula every day because it is factually true: “More misery for others = more $$$$ for ME ME ME”.

    This is about REALITY.

    Kind regards and peace out – message delivered, the time has come to be about the Father’s Business….

     

    #16504
    Avatar
    Sabinatu
    Blocked

    @Vern – one more thing – LOL

    Never had to work that hard at catching and keeping a “man” in MODERN times as ambitious women had to struggle to do in the times of the Bard in England, for starters. A woman was elected King in the 15th century in the country of my ancestor pool, go figure.

    Considering that the “quality” of the gene pool of refugees from WWII war torn Europe that was saved by seemingly miraculous events and landed in USA had no problem raising themselves and their children through education and merit and honest work EXPERIENCE in research fields – ie. the law, order and self-governance of “the greatest generation” who did NOT have a “greed is good” motto – it is a crying shame that there is not a work of fiction that immortalizes what that recent REALITY was.

    There was no problem in finding someone new every day to “love” – and I am not talking about “sex”.

    Who can you “love” in a “greed is good” absolutism driven society?! What is the psychology profile of people who DO fit in and find considerable material success in THAT kind of society?  Would not generosity, sympathy, empathy, kindness, grace and charm Jesus-channeling be nothing other a game of wits used to hide the motives of iniquity?  Rhetorical questions… things have gone way too far away from sanity and that seems to have been the motive all along – change the baseline of “sane” – no 6th and 7th Adjutant functioning needed.

    OK, now I’m done.

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