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Mara wrote: Maybe through the discoveries of science in modern times the revelators granted us these prayer glimpses. Maybe we earned them through the hard work of scientific discovery, as in such fields as physics, astrophysics, geology, cartography, chemistry and so on.
Not meaning to be a nitpicker, but those aren’t truths, they’re facts. Quote 48:6.21 is talking about slowly emerging truths, not facts. I would hope that mankind has progressed spiritually in the last two thousand years, which is what I think they’re talking about in that quote.
The people living in the first Century knew about planets. They were believers in astrology which was the forerunner of astronomy.
121:5.5 3. Astrology. This pseudo science of Babylon developed into a religion throughout the Greco-Roman Empire. Even in the twentieth century man has not been fully delivered from this superstitious belief.
88:6.5 Belief in astrology led to the development of astronomy; . . .
I think the parable prayers are meant to be sources of illumination of the mind in regards to the proper attitude toward spirit. For instance, the second prayer illustrates that we humans can hope to have a character like God’s character. In fact it asks God to bestow his nature and give his character. I think that’s a little radical, don’t you? True, first century people believed that their kings and rulers were divine, but for the average human being to ask for such a thing? It may have been too much. I mean, even Jesus got a slap down for claiming such things for himself.
Is the Lord’s prayer a parable prayer?
I think so.
Not meaning to be a nitpicker, but those aren’t truths, they’re facts.
No problem. By suggesting the discoveries of science (“. . . we earned them through the hard work of scientific discovery, as in such fields as physics, astrophysics, geology, cartography, chemistry and so on”) as a possible reason the revelators included these prayers, I am also suggesting that knowledge of the physical sciences change, as our scientific development goes forward.
101:4.2 Mankind should understand that we who participate in the revelation of truth are very rigorously limited by the instructions of our superiors. We are not at liberty to anticipate the scientific discoveries of a thousand years. Revelators must act in accordance with the instructions which form a part of the revelation mandate. We see no way of overcoming this difficulty, either now or at any future time. We full well know that, while the historic facts and religious truths of this series of revelatory presentations will stand on the records of the ages to come, within a few short years many of our statements regarding the physical sciences will stand in need of revision in consequence of additional scientific developments and new discoveries. These new developments we even now foresee, but we are forbidden to include such humanly undiscovered facts in the revelatory records. Let it be made clear that revelations are not necessarily inspired. The cosmology of these revelations is not inspired. It is limited by our permission for the co-ordination and sorting of present-day knowledge. While divine or spiritual insight is a gift, human wisdom must evolve.Truths and meanings evolve too. Jesus did not over-teach. He did not, as far as I know, tell the apostles the causes of volcanoes or earthquakes for example. They did not know about *the forces of light* in prayer one, for example. Did they know about the *universe* in prayer two? Knowledge of the forces of light and knowledge of the physical universe/s, for example, would be factual overload it seems to me. Did the apostles and people have trouble with the Lord’s Prayer where is says, “Thy kingdom come, thy will be done . . . .”? And he later taught the kingdom idea in terms of the family relationship. The kingdom idea did stick, but the crucified, resurrected Christ became the focus, along with the idea Christ would soon return. “Our creative Parent, who is in the center of the universe” is new even in our times.
Our creative Parent, who is in the center of the universe,
Bestow upon us your nature and give to us your character.
Make us sons and daughters of yours by grace
And glorify your name through our eternal achievement.
Your adjusting and controlling spirit give to live and dwell within us
That we may do your will on this sphere as angels do your bidding in light.
Sustain us this day in our progress along the path of truth.
Deliver us from inertia, evil, and all sinful transgression.
Be patient with us as we show loving-kindness to our fellows.
Shed abroad the spirit of your mercy in our creature hearts.
Lead us by your own hand, step by step, through the uncertain maze of life,
And when our end shall come, receive into your own bosom our faithful spirits.
Even so, not our desires but your will be done.
I wonder what Jesus was illustrating to the apostles when he shared these prayers?
(1:2.8) Those who know God have experienced the fact of his presence; such God-knowing mortals hold in their personal experience the only positive proof of the existence of the living God which one human being can offer to another. The existence of God is utterly beyond all possibility of demonstration except for the contact between the God-consciousness of the human mind and the God-presence of the Thought Adjuster that indwells the mortal intellect and is bestowed upon man as the free gift of the Universal Father.
Everything that exists, has been given to us by God.
Except what he needs us to give to him.
What the average human being is capable of doing, isn’t too much to ask.
Jesus said:
“To you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to the undiscerning multitudes and to those who seek our destruction, from now on, the mysteries of the kingdom shall be presented in parables.” (151:1.4)
Parables illustrate the “mysteries of the kingdom of heaven”. They were NOT meant to reveal the mysteries of mother earth.
Everything that exists, has been given to us by God. Except what he needs us to give to him. What the average human being is capable of doing, isn’t too much to ask.
[Reply edited by Moderator-1]
Compared to the LP, these others indicate a much higher knowledge of realities. Note that “many” are from other material/mortal worlds. But not all. Yet all 7 seem to penetrate deeper into the relationship between Creator and created don’t you think? We’re told Jesus did not share the sources of these prayers with the Apostles….even in his “intimate” instructions….but he did teach with these prayers.
144:5.26 – 37
Our perfect and righteous heavenly Father,
This day guide and direct our journey.
Sanctify our steps and co-ordinate our thoughts.
Ever lead us in the ways of eternal progress.
Fill us with wisdom to the fullness of power
And vitalize us with your infinite energy.
Inspire us with the divine consciousness of
The presence and guidance of the seraphic hosts.
Guide us ever upward in the pathway of light;
Justify us fully in the day of the great judgment.
Make us like yourself in eternal glory
And receive us into your endless service on high.
This is pretty radical:
Inspire us with the divine consciousness of
The presence and guidance of the seraphic hosts.
Consciousness of the presence of angels? Cool.
This seems so much more personal and illustrates such a direct relationship between God and mortal.
This day guide and direct our journey.
Sanctify our steps and co-ordinate our thoughts.
Ever lead us in the ways of eternal progress.And from the prior posted prayer:
Your adjusting and controlling spirit give to live and dwell within us
That we may do your will on this sphere as angels do your bidding in light.
Yeah . . . I’m struck by the mention of coordinating our thoughts. (You know I’m fascinated with the mind so I tend to dwell on these things.) Obviously they’re referring to the Adjusters/Controllers. Just how is this coordination accomplished? Coordination with what? I suppose coordinated with reality, right? What an amazing job the Adjuster has! And those reality responses too! How many of our thoughts randomly fly off into never-never land, avoiding mind gravity and spirit gravity? In my case, I think it happens a lot more than I realize. Prayerful living is the only answer for staying focused, as far as I’m concerned. I suppose this is one of the mysteries of the kingdom. I know the gnostics went to town speculating with this sort of thing, and perhaps because the time wasn’t right. But now it is right . . . so I think reviewing these prayers is a good thing.
Note that “many” are from other material/mortal worlds. But not all.
Maybe what he said was intended for the inspiration and edification of other worlds. But now in our times, due to the discoveries of science, we know about the galaxies of space and the properties of light and so on which knowledge is stimulative of the possibility that other planets (worlds) might foster living things. I am again suggesting that the reason these prayers were included in the UB might in part at least be due to our advancing knowledge of space and the possibility of discovering other life out there. Other worlds.
141:7.7 The Master was teaching these apostles the essentials of truth for an entire age on earth. They often listened to his teachings when in reality what he said was intended for the inspiration and edification of other worlds. He exemplified a new and original plan of life. From the human standpoint he was indeed a Jew, but he lived his life for all the world as a mortal of the realm. I think many people have embraced the Lord’s Prayer example/template to form more appropriate attitude and prayer habits since those long ago days it was given by Jesus. Still, so many pray the more primitive forms of self centered petitions and fear based supplications. The prayers Jesus taught elevate thinking to whole new levels of relationship by the believer to God and to others.
I was taught as a child that prayer was an opportunity for thanksgiving and for sharing the joys of life and the struggles and confusions…but the prayer for others was central to any petitions…for myself I was taught to pray for understanding, compassion, forgiveness of others, courage, faith, and the skills to serve the Lord with joy.
Pretty good perspective for a bunch of dirt farmers scratching a subsistence living while celebrating life with God in his wondrous creation. Daily bread without anxiety but faith that all things will be good in the Kingdom of God….no matter the struggles, hardships, and failures of the day.
“Seek first the kingdom of God, and when you have found entrance thereto, all things needful shall be added to you. Be not, therefore, unduly anxious for the morrow. Sufficient for the day is the trouble thereof.”
TUB has taught us a great deal about prayer, but I won’t dissuade people from any kind of prayer, even if it is self-centered, as long as they don’t blame God for not getting answers to selfish prayers, but themselves instead. I think any kind of praying is better than no praying, (that is, unless it’s mean spirited and motivated by hate or revenge). I mean, I still find myself praying for my team to win even though I know it’s stupid and childish. It’s a kind of hope and sharing hope with God is not all that bad, even though he doesn’t have favorites . . . he does listen well, and that matters. I think it only crosses the line when you expect magic and miracles. Although, even hoping for miracles can be a good thing if it isn’t at the expense of practical measures.
But these parable prayers offer us more insight into how to elevate prayer and develop an mindfulness toward Deity and divinity. The next prayer says that our Father is IN the mystery. That’s a cool perspective. There’s an actual person IN the mystery and the mystery is in our heads. It reminds me a little of the Christian mysticism book, The Cloud of Unknowing. I think revelation is what unclouds the mystery into knowing God and his nature. Funny how the gnostics got that all mixed up. It’s all about the person in the mystery, not the knowledge in the mystery. And most importantly we access the mystery through prayerful thinking WITH another person, a divine person, which is why the alter ego approach works so well.
144:5.36-50
Our Father who is in the mystery,
Reveal to us your holy character.
Give your children on earth this day
To see the way, the light, and the truth.
Show us the pathway of eternal progress
And give us the will to walk therein.
Establish within us your divine kingship
And thereby bestow upon us the full mastery of self.
Let us not stray into paths of darkness and death;
Lead us everlastingly beside the waters of life.
Hear these our prayers for your own sake;
Be pleased to make us more and more like yourself.
At the end, for the sake of the divine Son,
Receive us into the eternal arms.
Even so, not our will but yours be done.
Another parable anyone? Always liked this one….reminds me of the Apostles constantly bickering over their place at the table and beside the throne…which as we discussed in the foot washing, they never did seem to understand that the rewards of faith are the same for all, no matter how long one has had faith or how recently they found it….once we choose love and service our reward is certain, generous, and not measured by ‘time’ but, rather, by eternity itself!! Can anyone else relate this story to pride and humility?
163:3.4 (1804.1) And then said Peter, “But, Master, we have left everything to follow you, what then shall we have?” And Jesus spoke to all of the twelve: “Verily, verily, I say to you, there is no man who has left wealth, home, wife, brethren, parents, or children for my sake and for the sake of the kingdom of heaven who shall not receive manifold more in this world, perhaps with some persecutions, and in the world to come eternal life. But many who are first shall be last, while the last shall often be first. The Father deals with his creatures in accordance with their needs and in obedience to his just laws of merciful and loving consideration for the welfare of a universe.
163:3.5 (1804.2) “The kingdom of heaven is like a householder who was a large employer of men, and who went out early in the morning to hire laborers to work in his vineyard. When he had agreed with the laborers to pay them a denarius a day, he sent them into the vineyard. Then he went out about nine o’clock, and seeing others standing in the market place idle, he said to them: ‘Go you also to work in my vineyard, and whatsoever is right I will pay you.’ And they went at once to work. Again he went out about twelve and about three and did likewise. And going to the market place about five in the afternoon, he found still others standing idle, and he inquired of them, ‘Why do you stand here idle all the day?’ And the men answered, ‘Because nobody has hired us.’ Then said the householder: ‘Go you also to work in my vineyard, and whatever is right I will pay you.’
163:3.6 (1804.3) “When evening came, this owner of the vineyard said to his steward: ‘Call the laborers and pay them their wages, beginning with the last hired and ending with the first.’ When those who were hired about five o’clock came, they received a denarius each, and so it was with each of the other laborers. When the men who were hired at the beginning of the day saw how the later comers were paid, they expected to receive more than the amount agreed upon. But like the others every man received only a denarius. And when each had received his pay, they complained to the householder, saying: ‘These men who were hired last worked only one hour, and yet you have paid them the same as us who have borne the burden of the day in the scorching sun.’
163:3.7 (1804.4) “Then answered the householder: ‘My friends, I do you no wrong. Did not each of you agree to work for a denarius a day? Take now that which is yours and go your way, for it is my desire to give to those who came last as much as I have given to you. Is it not lawful for me to do what I will with my own? or do you begrudge my generosity because I desire to be good and to show mercy?’”
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