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Don’t you think that serpent level wisdom and dovelike harmlessness go hand in hand? Jesus taught that we should try to find the positive approach even when faced with the most negative of situations. Meeting negativeness with negativeness (like we see in the news everyday) is pretty darn unwise (immature) in the light of Jesus’ teaching.
159:5.9-10 Jesus required his followers to react positively and aggressively to every life situation. The turning of the other cheek, or whatever act that may typify, demands initiative, necessitates vigorous, active, and courageous expression of the believer’s personality. Jesus did not advocate the practice of negative submission to the indignities of those who might purposely seek to impose upon the practitioners of nonresistance to evil, but rather that his followers should be wise and alert in the quick and positive reaction of good to evil to the end that they might effectively overcome evil with good. Forget not, the truly good is invariably more powerful than the most malignant evil.
True goodness wins every battle against evil – guaranteed. But the win is a spiritual win. It’s possible to lose on the material level and gain everything spiritually, which is why being harmless as a dove is such a challenge. No one wants to appear to lose a fight materially, it’s bad for the ego. Serpent-like wisdom is aggressive and relentless. Dove-like harmlessness seeks for the spiritual win that comes from true goodness. Tough for humans to do, but totally doable. The quote does say “in the end” . . . which means, I think, that such an attitude toward evil evolves with time and practice, especially since true goodness is unconscious.
Gene wrote: Another tangent: When we are praying we tend to do it with words – in our mind or out-loud at times, – we do much with words between us and our guardians as well. Words are important and our guardians among others likely know our language because of that. Forgiveness “at its best” tends to happen without words.Oh definitely. If true goodness is unconscious, then true forgiveness is very likely unconscious too – meaning no words. And I agree, words are very important, which is why I find empty words so frustrating. It’s also why I’m trying to right that mini-book on The Word. Words without meaning are totally useless . . . yet some people seem to enjoy their own prattling so much . . . go figure.Bonita – I agree that the wisdom and the innocence grow together….rooted in our faith and the love we come to give. And all of that expressed by each of us is uniquely personal, experiential, and evolves through decisions into greater and greater effect or effectiveness.Back to parables: I like the parable of the Pharisee and the Publican where Jesus teaches that self-righteousness cannot buy the favor of God, demonstrated that devotion to the Pharisee was a means of inducing self rightious inactivity and the assurance of false spiritual security: devotion to the publican was a means of stirring up his soul to the realization of the need for repentance, confession and the acceptance by faith of merciful forgiveness.
167:5.1 (1838.2) On the way to Judea Jesus was followed by a company of almost fifty of his friends and enemies. At their noon lunchtime, on Wednesday, he talked to his apostles and this group of followers on the “Terms of Salvation,” and at the end of this lesson told the parable of the Pharisee and the publican (a tax collector). Said Jesus: “You see, then, that the Father gives salvation to the children of men, and this salvation is a free gift to all who have the faith to receive sonship in the divine family. There is nothing man can do to earn this salvation. Works of self-righteousness cannot buy the favor of God, and much praying in public will not atone for lack of living faith in the heart. Men you may deceive by your outward service, but God looks into your souls. What I am telling you is well illustrated by two men who went into the temple to pray, the one a Pharisee and the other a publican. The Pharisee stood and prayed to himself: ‘O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of men, extortioners, unlearned, unjust, adulterers, or even like this publican. I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I get.’ But the publican, standing afar off, would not so much as lift his eyes to heaven but smote his breast, saying, ‘God be merciful to me a sinner.’ I tell you that the publican went home with God’s approval rather than the Pharisee, for every one who exalts himself shall be humbled, but he who humbles himself shall be exalted.”
167:5.2 (1838.3) That night, in Jericho, the unfriendly Pharisees sought to entrap the Master by inducing him to discuss marriage and divorce, as did their fellows one time in Galilee, but Jesus artfully avoided their efforts to bring him into conflict with their laws concerning divorce. As the publican and the Pharisee illustrated good and bad religion, their divorce practices served to contrast the better marriage laws of the Jewish code with the disgraceful laxity of the Pharisaic interpretations of these Mosaic divorce statutes. The Pharisee judged himself by the lowest standard; the publican squared himself by the highest ideal. Devotion, to the Pharisee, was a means of inducing self-righteous inactivity and the assurance of false spiritual security; devotion, to the publican, was a means of stirring up his soul to the realization of the need for repentance, confession, and the acceptance, by faith, of merciful forgiveness. The Pharisee sought justice; the publican sought mercy. The law of the universe is: Ask and you shall receive; seek and you shall find.
140:5.6 (1573.8) The faith and the love of these beatitudes strengthen moral character and create happiness. Fear and anger weaken character and destroy happiness. This momentous sermon started out upon the note of happiness.
140:5.7 (1573.9) 1. “Happy are the poor in spirit — the humble.” To a child, happiness is the satisfaction of immediate pleasure craving. The adult is willing to sow seeds of self-denial in order to reap subsequent harvests of augmented happiness. In Jesus’ times and since, happiness has all too often been associated with the idea of the possession of wealth. In the story of the Pharisee and the publican praying in the temple, the one felt rich in spirit — egotistical; the other felt “poor in spirit” — humble. One was self-sufficient; the other was teachable and truth-seeking. The poor in spirit seek for goals of spiritual wealth — for God. And such seekers after truth do not have to wait for rewards in a distant future; they are rewarded now. They find the kingdom of heaven within their own hearts, and they experience such happiness now.
140:5.8 (1574.1) 2. “Happy are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be filled.” Only those who feel poor in spirit will ever hunger for righteousness. Only the humble seek for divine strength and crave spiritual power. But it is most dangerous to knowingly engage in spiritual fasting in order to improve one’s appetite for spiritual endowments. Physical fasting becomes dangerous after four or five days; one is apt to lose all desire for food. Prolonged fasting, either physical or spiritual, tends to destroy hunger.
140:5.9 (1574.2) Experiential righteousness is a pleasure, not a duty. Jesus’ righteousness is a dynamic love — fatherly-brotherly affection. It is not the negative or thou-shalt-not type of righteousness. How could one ever hunger for something negative — something “not to do”?
140:5.10 (1574.3) It is not so easy to teach a child mind these first two of the beatitudes, but the mature mind should grasp their significance.
“right that mini-book on The Word.” Waiting patiently.
It’ll never be published Gene. I write for the sake of writing and really don’t expect anyone to ever read the stuff. It’s kinda selfish.
But I can tell you that I am enthralled with the living Word, words pregnant with meaning, the kind of words that leave an alluring scent behind them. Jesus spoke that type of word and his words still speak to us thousands of years later. How to pack that much meaning into a few words is a skill set worth developing, that’s for sure.
That being said, did you notice the reference to two types of forgiveness? Maybe I’m reading too much meaning into these words, but I think there is a difference between the forgiveness of mercy and the forgiveness of love. The forgiveness of love is the one that goes the second and third mile, while the forgiveness of mercy might be just the first mile.
188:5.2 The forgiveness of love utterly transcends the forgiveness of mercy. Mercy sets the guilt of evil-doing to one side; but love destroys forever the sin and all weakness resulting therefrom.
The publican sought merciful forgiveness which requires repentance and confession. But from what I understand, the forgiveness of love only requires resumption of loyalty relations with Deity after becoming conscious of a lapse. The next quote mentions nothing of repentance, but as I read it, simply correcting an error once you realize you made it. What do you guys think?
89:10.6 The forgiveness of sin by Deity is the renewal of loyalty relations following a period of the human consciousness of the lapse of such relations as the consequence of conscious rebellion. The forgiveness does not have to be sought, only received as the consciousness of re-establishment of loyalty relations between the creature and the Creator. And all the loyal sons of God are happy, service-loving, and ever-progressive in the Paradise ascent.
Thx Brad for posting the full text of the Pharisee Publican parable.
“But I can tell you that I am enthralled with the living Word, words pregnant with meaning, the kind of words that leave an alluring scent behind them. Jesus spoke that type of word and his words still speak to us thousands of years later. How to pack that much meaning into a few words is a skill set worth developing, that’s for sure.”
Along with Jesus words I will add this – as I mentioned before we pray in words, we also think in words and thinking creatively is how we can create actuals out of potentials. This is what scientists do as an example and one day the pure scientist will ask the big question: why cannot I come to an end with discovering new things? Will this go on forever?
“188:5.2 The forgiveness of love utterly transcends the forgiveness of mercy. Mercy sets the guilt of evil-doing to one side; but love destroys forever the sin and all weakness resulting therefrom.
The publican sought merciful forgiveness which requires repentance and confession. But from what I understand, the forgiveness of love only requires resumption of loyalty relations with Deity after becoming conscious of a lapse. The next quote mentions nothing of repentance, but as I read it, simply correcting an error once you realize you made it. What do you guys think?
89:10.6 The forgiveness of sin by Deity is the renewal of loyalty relations following a period of the human consciousness of the lapse of such relations as the consequence of conscious rebellion. The forgiveness does not have to be sought, only received as the consciousness of re-establishment of loyalty relations between the creature and the Creator. And all the loyal sons of God are happy, service-loving, and ever-progressive in the Paradise ascent.”
Setting the guilt of evil doing aside then can be viewed as the first step in a process? Consequences remain and by taking the next step, renewing loyalty, it appears all the mistakes become part of the past? Ya think so?
Take the idea to Lucifer – “assume” he sincerely repents and re-establishes real, true loyalty – he may get to leave the world that imprisons him but he likely will not recover his high position and related responsibilities for a long long time. Consequences remain??? Work your way up, re-establish credibility by action.
Yes Gene….the repercussions of one’s errors and sins are not immediately eliminated or prevented in time and space by repentance or renewed loyalty connection….only in mind I think is there immediacy. But certainly the fact and function of forgiveness – whether the mercy or love form – is immediate upon the self/personality. One becomes released from the grip of guilt, shame, blame, etc. upon connection oe reconnection to the vine.
And yes we must show ourselves worthy to be trusted with a little to then be trusted with more and this is because the higher one is in responsibility, the greater the potential repercussions of error and sin upon others. Or so I understand. The authors assure us even Lucifer has the path of mercy and love forgiveness available…..although they do not appear optimistic of such an outcome (hopeful perhaps but not optimistic).
Setting the guilt of evil doing aside then can be viewed as the first step in a process? Consequences remain and by taking the next step, renewing loyalty, it appears all the mistakes become part of the past? Ya think so?
Are you talking about forgiveness or the consequences of sin?
Forgiveness is a process, a long process, beginning with mercy. Even mercy is a process:
28:6.8 The mercy reflectors, with their tertiary associates, engage in numerous superuniverse ministries, including the teaching of the ascending creatures. Among many other things the Significances of Origins teach these ascenders how to apply spirit ethics, and following such training, the Memories of Mercy teach them how to be truly merciful. While the spirit techniques of mercy ministry are beyond your concept, you should even now understand that mercy is a quality of growth. You should realize that there is a great reward of personal satisfaction in being first just, next fair, then patient, then kind. And then, on that foundation, if you choose and have it in your heart, you can take the next step and really show mercy; but you cannot exhibit mercy in and of itself. These steps must be traversed; otherwise there can be no genuine mercy. There may be patronage, condescension, or charity — even pity — but not mercy. True mercy comes only as the beautiful climax to these preceding adjuncts to group understanding, mutual appreciation, fraternal fellowship, spiritual communion, and divine harmony.
Mercy also includes rehabilitation. The mercy of rehabilitation is undertaken by Paradise Sons. In fact, the mission of our Creator Son is a mission of mercy.
188:5.2 Mercy sets the guilt of evil-doing to one side; but love destroys forever the sin and all weakness resulting therefrom. Jesus brought a new method of living to Urantia. He taught us not to resist evil but to find through him a goodness which effectually destroys evil. The forgiveness of Jesus is not condonation; it is salvation from condemnation. Salvation does not slight wrongs; it makes them right. True love does not compromise nor condone hate; it destroys it. The love of Jesus is never satisfied with mere forgiveness. The Master’s love implies rehabilitation, eternal survival. It is altogether proper to speak of salvation as redemption if you mean this eternal rehabilitation.
21:5.7 The elevation of a sevenfold bestowal Son to the unquestioned sovereignty of his universe means the beginning of the end of agelong uncertainty and relative confusion. Subsequent to this event, that which cannot be sometime spiritualized will eventually be disorganized; that which cannot be sometime co-ordinated with cosmic reality will eventually be destroyed. When the provisions of endless mercy and nameless patience have been exhausted in an effort to win the loyalty and devotion of the will creatures of the realms, justice and righteousness will prevail. That which mercy cannot rehabilitate justice will eventually annihilate.
And yes we must show ourselves worthy to be trusted with a little to then be trusted with more and this is because the higher one is in responsibility, the greater the potential repercussions of error and sin upon others.
Yet they tell us that even the repercussions of monumental sin has benefits if given enough time and mercy:
54:6.6 At first the Lucifer upheaval appeared to be an unmitigated calamity to the system and to the universe. Gradually benefits began to accrue. With the passing of twenty-five thousand years of system time (twenty thousand years of Urantia time), the Melchizedeks began to teach that the good resulting from Lucifer’s folly had come to equal the evil incurred. The sum of evil had by that time become almost stationary, continuing to increase only on certain isolated worlds, while the beneficial repercussions continued to multiply and extend out through the universe and superuniverse, even to Havona. The Melchizedeks now teach that the good resulting from the Satania rebellion is more than a thousand times the sum of all the evil.
54:6.7 But such an extraordinary and beneficent harvest of wrongdoing could only be brought about by the wise, divine, and merciful attitude of all of Lucifer’s superiors, extending from the Constellation Fathers on Edentia to the Universal Father on Paradise. The passing of time has enhanced the consequential good to be derived from the Lucifer folly; and since the evil to be penalized was quite fully developed within a comparatively short time, it is apparent that the all-wise and farseeing universe rulers would be certain to extend the time in which to reap increasingly beneficial results. Regardless of the many additional reasons for delaying the apprehension and adjudication of the Satania rebels, this one gain would have been enough to explain why these sinners were not sooner interned, and why they have not been adjudicated and destroyed.
Bradly wrote: And yes we must show ourselves worthy to be trusted with a little to then be trusted with more and this is because the higher one is in responsibility, the greater the potential repercussions of error and sin upon others.
Yet they tell us that even the repercussions of monumental sin has benefits if given enough time and mercy: (see quotes above – Bradly)
There’s that pattern of the Master again…overwhelming evil and sin with the love response which utterly destroys the repercussions of sin/evil over time….except those repercussions which are expressed as or result in even greater truth, beauty, and goodness. Harmless and wise and loving ministry provides a stark contrast to appreciate by all creatures in time and space. Such poised balance and harmonization and wisdom based on experience. Some might think beings created in perfection might hold some advantage over the mortal tadpoles from time and space. Think again!!
3:5.15 (52.1) Throughout the universe, every unit is regarded as a part of the whole. Survival of the part is dependent on co-operation with the plan and purpose of the whole, the wholehearted desire and perfect willingness to do the Father’s divine will. The only evolutionary world without error (the possibility of unwise judgment) would be a world without free intelligence. In the Havona universe there are a billion perfect worlds with their perfect inhabitants, but evolving man must be fallible if he is to be free. Free and inexperienced intelligence cannot possibly at first be uniformly wise. The possibility of mistaken judgment (evil) becomes sin only when the human will consciously endorses and knowingly embraces a deliberate immoral judgment.
3:5.16 (52.2) The full appreciation of truth, beauty, and goodness is inherent in the perfection of the divine universe. The inhabitants of the Havona worlds do not require the potential of relative value levels as a choice stimulus; such perfect beings are able to identify and choose the good in the absence of all contrastive and thought-compelling moral situations. But all such perfect beings are, in moral nature and spiritual status, what they are by virtue of the fact of existence. They have experientially earned advancement only within their inherent status. Mortal man earns even his status as an ascension candidate by his own faith and hope. Everything divine which the human mind grasps and the human soul acquires is an experiential attainment; it is a reality of personal experience and is therefore a unique possession in contrast to the inherent goodness and righteousness of the inerrant personalities of Havona.
3:5.17 (52.3) The creatures of Havona are naturally brave, but they are not courageous in the human sense. They are innately kind and considerate, but hardly altruistic in the human way. They are expectant of a pleasant future, but not hopeful in the exquisite manner of the trusting mortal of the uncertain evolutionary spheres. They have faith in the stability of the universe, but they are utter strangers to that saving faith whereby mortal man climbs from the status of an animal up to the portals of Paradise. They love the truth, but they know nothing of its soul-saving qualities. They are idealists, but they were born that way; they are wholly ignorant of the ecstasy of becoming such by exhilarating choice. They are loyal, but they have never experienced the thrill of wholehearted and intelligent devotion to duty in the face of temptation to default. They are unselfish, but they never gained such levels of experience by the magnificent conquest of a belligerent self. They enjoy pleasure, but they do not comprehend the sweetness of the pleasure escape from the pain potential.
4:3.6 (58.4) The infinite goodness of the Father is beyond the comprehension of the finite mind of time; hence must there always be afforded a contrast with comparative evil (not sin) for the effective exhibition of all phases of relative goodness. Perfection of divine goodness can be discerned by mortal imperfection of insight only because it stands in contrastive association with relative imperfection in the relationships of time and matter in the motions of space.
132:2.3 (1457.6) Goodness, like truth, is always relative and unfailingly evil-contrasted. It is the perception of these qualities of goodness and truth that enables the evolving souls of men to make those personal decisions of choice which are essential to eternal survival.
132:2.6 (1458.3) As you ascend the universe scale of creature development, you will find increasing goodness and diminishing evil in perfect accordance with your capacity for goodness-experience and truth-discernment. The ability to entertain error or experience evil will not be fully lost until the ascending human soul achieves final spirit levels.
132:2.7 (1458.4) Goodness is living, relative, always progressing, invariably a personal experience, and everlastingly correlated with the discernment of truth and beauty. Goodness is found in the recognition of the positive truth-values of the spiritual level, which must, in human experience, be contrasted with the negative counterpart — the shadows of potential evil.
132:2.8 (1458.5) Until you attain Paradise levels, goodness will always be more of a quest than a possession, more of a goal than an experience of attainment. But even as you hunger and thirst for righteousness, you experience increasing satisfaction in the partial attainment of goodness. The presence of goodness and evil in the world is in itself positive proof of the existence and reality of man’s moral will, the personality, which thus identifies these values and is also able to choose between them.
Bonita wrote:The publican sought merciful forgiveness which requires repentance and confession. But from what I understand, the forgiveness of love only requires resumption of loyalty relations with Deity after becoming conscious of a lapse. The next quote mentions nothing of repentance, but as I read it, simply correcting an error once you realize you made it. What do you guys think?
89:10.6 The forgiveness of sin by Deity is the renewal of loyalty relations following a period of the human consciousness of the lapse of such relations as the consequence of conscious rebellion. The forgiveness does not have to be sought, only received as the consciousness of re-establishment of loyalty relations between the creature and the Creator. And all the loyal sons of God are happy, service-loving, and ever-progressive in the Paradise ascent.”
I think you’re right! In the parable of the prodigal son, the son needed to repent for his own reasons but not to receive his father’s love, forgiveness, and embrace. Consider this:
1. Divine Forgiveness
174:1.1 (1898.1) For several days Peter and James had been engaged in discussing their differences of opinion about the Master’s teaching regarding the forgiveness of sin. They had both agreed to lay the matter before Jesus, and Peter embraced this occasion as a fitting opportunity for securing the Master’s counsel. Accordingly, Simon Peter broke in on the conversation dealing with the differences between praise and worship, by asking: “Master, James and I are not in accord regarding your teachings having to do with the forgiveness of sin. James claims you teach that the Father forgives us even before we ask him, and I maintain that repentance and confession must precede the forgiveness. Which of us is right? what do you say?”
174:1.2 (1898.2) After a short silence Jesus looked significantly at all four and answered: “My brethren, you err in your opinions because you do not comprehend the nature of those intimate and loving relations between the creature and the Creator, between man and God. You fail to grasp that understanding sympathy which the wise parent entertains for his immature and sometimes erring child. It is indeed doubtful whether intelligent and affectionate parents are ever called upon to forgive an average and normal child. Understanding relationships associated with attitudes of love effectively prevent all those estrangements which later necessitate the readjustment of repentance by the child with forgiveness by the parent.
174:1.3 (1898.3) “A part of every father lives in the child. The father enjoys priority and superiority of understanding in all matters connected with the child-parent relationship. The parent is able to view the immaturity of the child in the light of the more advanced parental maturity, the riper experience of the older partner. With the earthly child and the heavenly Father, the divine parent possesses infinity and divinity of sympathy and capacity for loving understanding. Divine forgiveness is inevitable; it is inherent and inalienable in God’s infinite understanding, in his perfect knowledge of all that concerns the mistaken judgment and erroneous choosing of the child. Divine justice is so eternally fair that it unfailingly embodies understanding mercy.
174:1.4 (1898.4) “When a wise man understands the inner impulses of his fellows, he will love them. And when you love your brother, you have already forgiven him. This capacity to understand man’s nature and forgive his apparent wrongdoing is Godlike. If you are wise parents, this is the way you will love and understand your children, even forgive them when transient misunderstanding has apparently separated you. The child, being immature and lacking in the fuller understanding of the depth of the child-father relationship, must frequently feel a sense of guilty separation from a father’s full approval, but the true father is never conscious of any such separation. Sin is an experience of creature consciousness; it is not a part of God’s consciousness.
174:1.5 (1898.5) “Your inability or unwillingness to forgive your fellows is the measure of your immaturity, your failure to attain adult sympathy, understanding, and love. You hold grudges and nurse vengefulness in direct proportion to your ignorance of the inner nature and true longings of your children and your fellow beings. Love is the outworking of the divine and inner urge of life. It is founded on understanding, nurtured by unselfish service, and perfected in wisdom.”
Hey Bradly, that was me who wrote what you quoted, not Gene. See post #27203. You quoted Gene’s quote of my post. Just nit-picking.
Pick away!! And I thought it was you by the wording but found it on the page above in Gene’s post. Sorry for the confusion. I’ll see if I can change in edit…………yup, that worked!
No problem. I did the same thing to someone recently. Think it was Keryn . . . can’t remember. Old Timer’s.
I think you’re right! In the parable of the prodigal son, the son needed to repent for his own reasons but not to receive his father’s love, forgiveness, and embrace.
Sorry if I tend to drift off topic but the way this was written made me think about Father’s love and be taken to Moses law admonishing (targeting) children to honor their Fathers and Mothers.
Interesting there was no need to write a law for Fathers and Mothers to honor their children.
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