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Rich says: “there’s nothing sordid about jane roberts channeling seth.”
Except perhaps that there is no such thing as channeling…or reincarnation either one. At least according to the UB. Mediumship is a primitive superstition that is as misguided as any priestly claims of human intermediaries or those who intercede between people and gods, ghosts, spirits, and the dead.
Sordid indeed.
Ms. Robert’s was an author in the business of selling books to the gullible. Believe whatever and whomever you may wish rich. Lots of people believe in reincarnation and others claim to be mediums. The UB teaches that no person truly experiences either and both are fictitious beliefs.
The UB also teaches that our spiritization does not depend upon the accuracy of our beliefs and that even false beliefs cannot prevent our faith experience and teaches further that we all suffer, to some degree or another, from false metaphysics, beliefs, and perspective.
Thus the purpose, importance, and value of Epochal Revelation…again, according to the Papers.
I believe God’s love for the children of time is not measured, determined, or limited by the immaturity or inexperience of any of us babes and youthful pilgrim’s.
Enjoy your journey Rich.
jane roberts (rupert) was a spirit medium.
90:1.3 (987.1) While they may have practiced deception in minor matters, the great majority of the shamans believed in the fact of their spirit possession. Women who were able to throw themselves into a trance or a cataleptic fit became powerful shamanesses; later, such women became prophets and spirit mediums. Their cataleptic trances usually involved alleged communications with the ghosts of the dead. Many female shamans were also professional dancers.
Hello again Bradly, You are right about the Papers I will soon be reading; I actually read those chapters prior to reading from the start of the UB, but for that reason, I know I didn’t have the full context at that time & thus I struggled to understand some parts, so this time around, it should be even more enlightening. However, I did take a short break to read a much shorter book on ideal human health – still reading that one. Hi Ragathea (& Rich), Please feel free express your ideas regarding the authors you mentioned and the religious belief systems you mentioned; I love learning, even if what I learn may not fit with my current ideas & beliefs. I still have books that I read by those same authors, and from others like them – only now I found it necessary for me to use much of my free time to carefully read and ponder the UB. Regarding those authors’ ideas on reincarnation, and how they (and the numerous people they interviewed) may not have the full context of what they have learned so far, consider the possibility that in the Mansion World system, part of our experiential learning may at times consist of life simulations that seem so realistic that those in the afterlife may mistakenly conclude they are reincarnating back on their planets of origin. For example, in his book “Far Journeys”, self-proclaimed out-of-body pioneer Robert Monroe reported that during one of his “journeys”, he wanted to see God, but in order for his request to be granted, he had to pass simulated tests, which seemed totally real to him, as if he kept reliving his life on Earth, but only after he successfully passed his tests did he realized those past lives were not real – only very convincing simulations. I’m NOT saying that the UB confirms what I just wrote; I’m only saying something like that MAY be occurring in the Mansion World system. Can you, Ragathea (& Rich), see how easy it would be for those modern researchers (or the ones they hypnotized) to misinterpret simulations as being actual reincarnations? Notice how very real our nighttime dreams can seem, until we wake up. On that note, I will say, “Goodnight everyone”.
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jane roberts (rupert) was a spirit medium.
90:1.3 (987.1) While they may have practiced deception in minor matters, the great majority of the shamans believed in the fact of their spirit possession. Women who were able to throw themselves into a trance or a cataleptic fit became powerful shamanesses; later, such women became prophets and spirit mediums. Their cataleptic trances usually involved alleged communications with the ghosts of the dead. Many female shamans were also professional dancers.
Afraid you misunderstood the meaning there rich. The quote means most of them were sincere in their false belief. They were deluded but sincere, unlike those charlatans who only pretend to have powers they know they do not have but claim to have – for money and/or power.
I don’t know if Ms. Robert’s was a charlatan, or sincere but deluded – “self deceived“. Irrelevant here really, since this is a UB study group. And (again) the UB clearly and redunantly states there are no spirit mediums or any other form of medium.
We are each fully connected to Deity and require no interpreters or intermediaries or oracles or channelers or mediums and none of those exist or ever have existed and belief in that and those is primitive superstition.
90:0.1 (986.1) THE evolution of religious observances progressed from placation, avoidance, exorcism, coercion, conciliation, and propitiation to sacrifice, atonement, and redemption. The technique of religious ritual passed from the forms of the primitive cult through fetishes to magic and miracles; and as ritual became more complex in response to man’s increasingly complex concept of the supermaterial realms, it was inevitably dominated by medicine men, shamans, and priests.
90:0.2 (986.2) In the advancing concepts of primitive man the spirit world was eventually regarded as being unresponsive to the ordinary mortal. Only the exceptional among humans could catch the ear of the gods; only the extraordinary man or woman would be heard by the spirits. Religion thus enters upon a new phase, a stage wherein it gradually becomes secondhanded; always does a medicine man, a shaman, or a priest intervene between the religionist and the object of worship. And today most Urantia systems of organized religious belief are passing through this level of evolutionary development.
90:0.3 (986.3) Evolutionary religion is born of a simple and all-powerful fear, the fear which surges through the human mind when confronted with the unknown, the inexplicable, and the incomprehensible. Religion eventually achieves the profoundly simple realization of an all-powerful love, the love which sweeps irresistibly through the human soul when awakened to the conception of the limitless affection of the Universal Father for the sons of the universe. But in between the beginning and the consummation of religious evolution, there intervene the long ages of the shamans, who presume to stand between man and God as intermediaries, interpreters, and intercessors.
90:1.4 (987.2) But not all shamans were self-deceived; many were shrewd and able tricksters.
How to say “No” to God is a momentarily appropriate question in this thread. People can subtlety say ‘no’ while some may consciously express rejection. The UB authors tell us God is the only reality, which seems like a profound declaration that only God the Father knows all and is the Ultimate Planner and Minister Absolute. There is no such other person anywhere. To such a Person we direct our “truth seeker antenna.” The UB is here to re-define who, what, how of truth and is given by assigned personnel of our Universe Parents to correct us, lead us, inspire us. But, as we know a person can reject such guidance, in a way, to say ‘no’ to God. The authors are correcting our concepts that there is only progress, not backward movement. Progress is also provided for beings higher than the human races. Progress is the watchword of the universe, they say.
It seems to me there are truth seekers and evidence seekers- some sincerely wanting to know what is true about God, creation, et al while others are seeking evidence for a current posit. Jesus had a superb ability to judge a person’s heart. If a person refuses to see larger and becomes recalcitrant in the presence of God, then such persons, we are told, are delayed in their progress. Even on the Mansion Worlds, we will be tested before allowed to proceed onward.
Spiritual progress involves sincere truth seeking with a whole heart! I suspect each person must totally surrender all notions of finality of beliefs (firm conclusions) here and become a sincere adventurer citizen of larger truths . We must let go of stubbornness as we see it displayed in Jesus’ day and in current life. The UB authors present a sound case for forward movement, not reverting to old beliefs or returning to planetary re-education sessions.
Spiritual progress involves sincere truth seeking with a whole heart! I suspect each person must totally surrender all notions of finality of beliefs (firm conclusions) here and become a sincere adventurer citizen of larger truths . We must let go of stubbornness as we see it displayed in Jesus’ day and in current life. The UB authors present a sound case for forward movement, not reverting to old beliefs or returning to planetary re-education sessions.
Nicely put Mark. Again, I refer truth-seekers to Jesus. This is what he said:
133:4.4 [Part IV]To the earnest leader of the Mithraic cult he said: “You do well to seek for a religion of eternal salvation, but you err to go in quest of such a glorious truth among man-made mysteries and human philosophies. Know you not that the mystery of eternal salvation dwells within your own soul? Do you not know that the God of heaven has sent his spirit to live within you, and that this spirit will lead all truth-loving and God-serving mortals out of this life and through the portals of death up to the eternal heights of light where God waits to receive his children? And never forget: You who know God are the sons of God if you truly yearn to be like him.”.
176:1.7 [Part IV]When Jesus heard this, he was thoughtful for some time and then said: “You ever err since you always try to attach the new teaching to the old; you are determined to misunderstand all my teaching; you insist on interpreting the gospel in accordance with your established beliefs. Nevertheless, I will try to enlighten you.”Yes Mark…
…there are those who seek more than they know, and then there are those who merely seek confirmation of what they think they already know.
One moves forward and the other not so much.
No, no reincarnation. At the end of life, whether long or short, we leave earth behind.
39:2.13 [Part II]The angels cannot transport combustion bodies — flesh and blood — such as you now have, but they can transport all others, from the lowest morontia to the higher spirit forms. They do not function in the event of natural death. When you finish your earthly career, your body remains on this planet. Your Thought Adjuster proceeds to the bosom of the Father, and these angels are not directly concerned in your subsequent personality reassembly on the identification mansion world. There your new body is a morontia form, one that can enseraphim. You “sow a mortal body” in the grave; you “reap a morontia form” on the mansion worlds.47:3.1 [Part II]On the mansion worlds the resurrected mortal survivors resume their lives just where they left off when overtaken by death. When you go from Urantia to the first mansion world, you will notice considerable change, but if you had come from a more normal and progressive sphere of time, you would hardly notice the difference except for the fact that you were in possession of a different body; the tabernacle of flesh and blood has been left behind on the world of nativity.39:4.13 (435.6) To the inhabited worlds the quickeners of morality portray mortal life as an unbroken chain of many links. Your short sojourn on Urantia, on this sphere of mortal infancy, is only a single link, the very first in the long chain that is to stretch across universes and through the eternal ages. It is not so much what you learn in this first life; it is the experience of living this life that is important. Even the work of this world, paramount though it is, is not nearly so important as the way in which you do this work. There is no material reward for righteous living, but there is profound satisfaction—consciousness of achievement—and this transcends any conceivable material reward.
you’re not prepared to receive the good news from my lips.
137:8.18 (1537.5) When he had thus spoken, he sat down. All who heard him were astonished at his words. His disciples marveled. But the people were not prepared to receive the good news from the lips of this God-man. About one third who heard him believed the message even though they could not fully comprehend it; about one third prepared in their hearts to reject such a purely spiritual concept of the expected kingdom, while the remaining one third could not grasp his teaching, many truly believing that he “was beside himself.”
Hi Michael, Your truly excellent reply to rich added a whole lot of value to his brief comment. Seems to be true, that when the student (rich) is ready, the teacher (Michael) arrives
Nigelyou’re not prepared to receive the good news from my lips.
137:8.18 (1537.5) When he had thus spoken, he sat down. All who heard him were astonished at his words. His disciples marveled. But the people were not prepared to receive the good news from the lips of this God-man. About one third who heard him believed the message even though they could not fully comprehend it; about one third prepared in their hearts to reject such a purely spiritual concept of the expected kingdom, while the remaining one third could not grasp his teaching, many truly believing that he “was beside himself.”
Hi Michael, Your truly excellent reply to rich added a whole lot of value to his brief comment. Seems to be true, that when the student (rich) is ready, the teacher (Michael) arrives
NigelNigel…doesn’t look like rich is a student or ready for any teacher. Too bad.
you’re learning to laugh and laugh heartily.
128:6.11 (1416.4) The children were always welcome at the repair shop. Jesus provided sand, blocks, and stones by the side of the shop, and bevies of youngsters flocked there to amuse themselves. When they tired of their play, the more intrepid ones would peek into the shop, and if its keeper were not busy, they would make bold to go in and say, “Uncle Joshua, come out and tell us a big story.” Then they would lead him out by tugging at his hands until he was seated on the favorite rock by the corner of the shop, with the children on the ground in a semicircle before him. And how the little folks did enjoy their Uncle Joshua. They were learning to laugh, and to laugh heartily. It was customary for one or two of the smallest of the children to climb upon his knees and sit there, looking up in wonderment at his expressive features as he told his stories. The children loved Jesus, and Jesus loved the children.
i said one thing.71:2.13 (802.7) Freedom of speech. Representative government is unthinkable without freedom of all forms of expression for human aspirations and opinions.
Hahaha!!! Rich, so many things in the UB you disagree with and for so long too!! Michael…you may wish to not engage this one. Trouble with a capital T. Mods here allow his foolishness and piracy. Too bad. Other sites have terminated his posting and hijacking privileges for good cause. Habitually disruptive and unresponsive.
Actually…you said:
“when a world is settled in light and life then there’s no more need for reincarnation, until then reincarnation is helpful for most mortals.”
And then this:
“You will reincarnate whether or not you believe that you will. It is much easier if your theories fit reality; but if they do not, you will not change the nature of reincarnation one iota.” (From the book: THE SETH MATERIAL) i believe in seth, my only difference with tub.”
Just to be clear, I did not report this post to be “inappropriate”…although I think it is really. Personally I do appreciate Rich pointing out the fact that he disagrees with the Urantia Papers. Certainly this issye is not his only disagreement or contradiction of the UB however, despite that claim above. Rich has a long record of posts and opinions at other sites as well. Anyway…the fictional Seth of Robert’s fame as author and self proclaimed psychic is no authority here about anything at all.
urantia4me wrote:
“Hello Nigel – I want to thank you for your efforts to compare and contrast modern ideas on astronomy with the relevant parts of the Urantia Book. Besides viewing 3 of the 4-part videos (with the Milky Way video still to come), I read some of the related posts in some of the others forums you started, along with some of the comments from others. I have a better understanding of the foundational structures at the macro & micro levels.
So now may I ask, should we think of Segregata as Dark Matter, and Dark Energy as a force coming from Nether Paradise? Also, should we think of the Ultimaton as a kind of bridge between observable matter/gravity & (currently) non-observable counterparts, especially since one of its properties is anti-gravity? I ask that because vortices are thought by some to serve as portals linking lesser to greater realities.”
Hi Michael,
I’ve added a reply over here in the Revisionist Cosmology thread.
Nigel
the ub has weakened its own influence and authority by lying about reincarnation.
92:4.9 (1008.2) 5. The Urantia Papers. The papers, of which this is one, constitute the most recent presentation of truth to the mortals of Urantia. These papers differ from all previous revelations, for they are not the work of a single universe personality but a composite presentation by many beings. But no revelation short of the attainment of the Universal Father can ever be complete. All other celestial ministrations are no more than partial, transient, and practically adapted to local conditions in time and space. While such admissions as this may possibly detract from the immediate force and authority of all revelations, the time has arrived on Urantia when it is advisable to make such frank statements, even at the risk of weakening the future influence and authority of this, the most recent of the revelations of truth to the mortal races of Urantia.
look this is MY theory, there’s no proof for reincarnation. reincarnation can be helpful on a world not settled in light and life. the ub is about perfection in a sense. there’s no way i can give you an adequate explanation, this is simply a belief held by any given individual. most every new age book i read besides the ub believes in reincarnation. seth explains it extensively. on a world of light and life a person would progress so well that reincarnation wouldn’t be helpful, they would simply go to whichever mansion world they’re meant to go to. i could type about this or talk about this extensively but there’s no point to it. you can’t prove or disprove whatever someone believes about reincarnation.Agreed. No one can prove anything here and no one is trying to. But we can, I think, agree on what the UB says about reincarnation and it is the Papers we share and study here. Seth is irrelevant here.The UB is clear. There is no reincarnation in the universe reality perspective given in the UB. None. Why someone would believe in the teachings about planetary destiny and Light and Life in the UB but dismiss the teachings on the primitive and superstitious myth of reincarnation is quite interesting.And puzzling.Rather rude for a guest don’t you think?
Similar behaviors got you sacked elsewhere if you recall.
Are direct attacks toward the Papers a wise choice here I wonder?
the ub has weakened its own influence and authority by lying about reincarnation.
Rich this is a serious accusation against the UB which neither you nor anyone else I suspect would be able to prove. It is one thing to disagree with The Urantia Book and quite another to claim that it is deliberately promoting falsehoods. If you wish to continue as a forum member, I suggest that you desist from this type of comment.
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