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Welcome to forum Flower24, and hello again Bradly & Mara!
I was thrilled to see the comments of all 3 of you! Mara, you inspired me with so many relevant quotes in prior posts to skip ahead in the UB to the life & teachings of Jesus. One thing that got my attention in that section is how Jesus spoke so clearly/plainly about SO many interesting topics including reincarnation.
For that reason, I ask that you, Flower24, consider a fresh reading all the sections of the UB where Jesus spoke on the topic of the afterlife for humans after physical death, and then go back to read other sections of the UB that deal with the afterlife for humans. I wish now that I had done that for my own better understanding of the UB perspective on the afterlife as it relates to reincarnation.
For like Bradly, I first began reading the UB primarily to find the parts that confirmed my existing beliefs and/or to see what parts would help to further explain things I had read from other metaphysical/new age/mainstream Christian sources. But the more I read the UB, I realized I was actually hindering/slowing my ability to better understand all that is contained in the UB.
I didn’t originally think it would matter, but it really made a big difference for me to exclusively read the entire Urantia Book, which I am still doing. I like reading at a nice, comfortable pace that allows me to absorb/ponder what I’m reading. It took me a full year so far to read the first half of the book.
Of course, since you (Flower24) are so well-read (based on the list of other sources you referenced in your first post, it’s only natural as you read the UB to occasionally think about those other sources that cover similar material. Even so, try to focus more on how UB material in one section relates to UB material in other sections, cross-referencing as you read the book. In NO way am I intending to insult your intelligence – I just want you to more quickly grasp the full UB perspective on a variety of topics BEFORE you try to make any connections to what you previously learned.
I typically don’t not list quotes from the UB in this in this forum, for I’m simply feel more comfortable in simply discussing ideas I found in the UB. But know also that I have read a lot of other interesting sources prior to reading the UB, including material by some of the authors you already mentioned. Of all those on the forum, Bradly is probably most aware of some of the prior sources I’ve read, such D. Cannon, E. Cayce, C. S. Lewis, R. Monroe, M. Newton, G. Renard, N. D. Walsh, & B. Weiss, as well as the Ramala trilogy of books and “The Grail Message: In Light of Truth” – and many other interesting sources, including the entire Bible & the entire (translated) Quran!
I don’t regret any of the books I’ve read, but honestly, I have NEVER found a source quite like the Urantia Book! What other source gives SO MUCH precise detail, specifically explaining where our Earth scientists/researchers were right and where they were wrong (and how & why they got it wrong)?! Likewise concerning the biblical authors, and most likely, if the UB had been originally expressed in more recent times, it likely would have directly commented on some of the more modern sources I just referenced.
Thanks again Bradly, Mara, and Flower24 for providing such interesting & thought-provoking comments and quotes!
Hello again, Flower24:
Whereas Bradly & Mara commented on the parts of your comments that can be addressed by the Urantia Book, I would like to comment on your comments that may not be directly addressed by the UB.
I have looked at some of the seemingly impressive cases involving children seemed to prove they were reincarnated, some of which were presented by Ian Stephenson, and some presented on more recent TV shows/documentaries. Of course, the most compelling cases involved the family members of the dead who confirmed what the children who claimed to be reincarnated had told them. And I’ve read the cases where people had visited certain places they have never before visited and gave good details upon their arrival, and those same individuals were so shocked by their perceptions that it triggered a full range of emotions, from extreme joy to extreme fear, like in the case labeled “The Reincarnation of Anne Frank”.
That brings me to another comment you made regarding your personal experience(s) that seemed to convince you of reincarnation. Was your experience more like the children I briefly mentioned, or did your experience involve those who claim to be psychic? I’ve had far more experiences with the latter type, but even if we stay with cases like the children’s claims, I myself have had what would simply label very odd/peculiar coincidences/experiences that had me seriously asking, “Do such experiences really prove reincarnation?!”
Perhaps a better question to ask is, “Is there equally possible/realistic explanations besides reincarnation?” After reading the Urantia Book, I would answer a definite “Yes”, with one equally possible explanation being the typically invisible but very real Midwayers who are fully capable of providing the seemingly convincing information by projecting their thoughts & emotions in a way that makes humans believe it is their own thoughts and emotions!
That explanation is very much in line with the ideas that Emanuel Swedenborg provided. He is another source worth considering, for though he lived a few hundred years ago, the last years of his life was spending totally devoted to writing volumes of work based on his research and personal experiences, part of which covered the topic of reincarnation.
Sadly, I have to get ready for work soon, so I will return later tonight or tomorrow to finish writing my comments.
Hello Urantia4me,
Many thanks for the two comments, I will comment on this in the next few days, I can no longer make it today.
Best regards
Hello Flower24,
A quick follow-up before I go to work…Because this is the Urantia Book forum, I should mention that according to the UB, only the loyal group of Midwayers were left on Urantia by the time Divine Michael/Human Jesus departed thus planet. But I wonder if sometime after the Urantia Book was published in 1955, possibly during the 1960s when illegal drugs and other less than ideal practices flourished, that SOME of the Midwayers may have become “disloyal” since then. (I also want to add that my ex-wife became very interested in the Abraham Hicks teachings & the Sylvia Browne books, which I am also familiar with but just failed to mention in my prior post.)
Now about the Astal plane…I agree with you that it is different from the Mansion World system, for while that is clearly described in the UB as quite real, the Astral realm seems to me to be more like the world of our (night-time) dreams yet still connected to Earth, possibly connectedto Earth’s aura, to use a term you are more familiar with. Cayce called it the Borderland, and the Theosophy teachings refer to it as the realm of glamor/illusions. The UB mentions about some human souls being detoured before going to the Mansion World system, which MAY be a reference to the Astral plane – that’s only a speculation on my part. After much reading about the Astral plane in other sources, especially in a Theosophy book called “Ponder on This “, the Astral plane seems to be a creation of humanity’s collective subconscious awareness, thus being only “real” to human perception, but technically unreal as far as divinity is concerned because we are NOT repersonalized in that realm, to use a UB term, but I suspect divinity tolerates that human “creation” for a time because it serves a purpose, like a kind purgatory – view the movie “What Dreams May Come” starring Robin Williams to get a better idea of what I mean by that.
Ok, bye for now.
Hello Flower24,
I saw that you will be away for a few days, but in the meantime…you well summarized the more modern ideas about reincarnation, and I also originally thought that those ideas are not necessarily at odds with the Urantia Book, but the more I read the UB, the more I realize there are problems when trying harmonize the UB teachings on reincarnation with other sources on that topic, partly due to our limited human perspectives.
There are many examples in the UB where even the 12 original followers of Jesus kept misinterpreting his teachings because they naturally kept trying to fit his perfect teachings within their imperfect/limited ideas based on their prior learning. Their beliefs about miracles (and the desire to be amazed by them) is one example. The beliefs regarding the supposed necessity of sacrificing innocent creatures (like unblemished lambs) to appease the wrath of God to achieve forgiveness of sins is another example. There are plenty of other examples in the UB of “filling old wine skins with new wine”.
By the way, the sincerity of Jesus’ 12 disciples was never the problem. It’s the issue of following the logic of imperfect ideas will cause more unforeseen problems further along the paths of our individual learning. That’s how the original “message” of Jesus was gradually replaced with the “person” of Jesus, with regard to God’s plan for our eternal survival. You can read in the UB that Divinity is essentially offended by the corrupt idea that salvation comes from the sacrifice of innocent Jesus. And every little misinterpretation over the past 2000 years led to a dramatic departure from the original, perfect message for humanity. Who back then could have foreseen how such sincere but mistaken beliefs would lead the bloody period of the Crusades?! Likewise, I suspect that is why the Urantia Book clearly states that reincarnation is a false belief, while it states that repersonalization is the correct belief. You could look at the caste system of India and possibly conclude that the idea of karma needing to be resolved through reincarnation led to the caste system.
By for now
Getting ready for work now, but for my next post, I want to address 2 related topics: Repersonalization versus reincarnation – can those terms be used interchangeably, meaning is the UB simply “splitting hairs”? A clue to how I will address that is by asking, “Can the terms “Soul” & “Spirit” be interchangeably?” (And most of you on this forum know how the UB has addressed those terms). Also, according to the Bible, the12 disciples of Jesus once asked him, “Who sinned – this man or his parents?” And regarding that man who was crippled since the time of his birth, Jesus said, “Neither assumption was true.” (If Mara or someone else can find that story in the UB, please provide the reference.)
Bye for now.
And Bradly,
Unltil I return to the forum, which hopefully will be by tomorrow, would you quote from the UB the differences between Soul & Spirit? Thanks.
Repersonalization versus reincarnation – can those terms be used interchangeably, meaning is the UB simply “splitting hairs”?
Not interchangeable. No hair splitting. Repersonalization refers to the resurrection from death. (37:3.8)
112:3.5 [Part III]After death the material body returns to the elemental world from which it was derived, but two nonmaterial factors of surviving personality persist: The pre-existent Thought Adjuster, with the memory transcription of the mortal career, proceeds to Divinington; and there also remains, in the custody of the destiny guardian, the immortal morontia soul of the deceased human. These phases and forms of soul, these once kinetic but now static formulas of identity, are essential to repersonalization on the morontia worlds; and it is the reunion of the Adjuster and the soul that reassembles the surviving personality, that reconsciousizes you at the time of the morontia awakening.49:6.9 Throughout the earlier ages of an evolutionary world, few mortals go to judgment on the third day. But as the ages pass, more and more the personal guardians of destiny are assigned to the advancing mortals, and thus increasing numbers of these evolving creatures are repersonalized on the first mansion world on the third day after natural death. On such occasions the return of the Adjuster signalizes the awakening of the human soul, and this is the repersonalization of the dead just as literally as when the en masse roll is called at the end of a dispensation on the evolutionary worlds.“Can the terms “Soul” & “Spirit” be interchangeably?”
No.
0:5.10 4. Soul. The soul of man is an experiential acquirement. As a mortal creature chooses to “do the will of the Father in heaven,” so the indwelling spirit becomes the father of a new reality in human experience. The mortal and material mind is the mother of this same emerging reality. The substance of this new reality is neither material nor spiritual — it is morontial. This is the emerging and immortal soul which is destined to survive mortal death and begin the Paradise ascension.
1:3.7 In the inner experience of man, mind is joined to matter. Such material-linked minds cannot survive mortal death. The technique of survival is embraced in those adjustments of the human will and those transformations in the mortal mind whereby such a God-conscious intellect gradually becomes spirit taught and eventually spirit led. This evolution of the human mind from matter association to spirit union results in the transmutation of the potentially spirit phases of the mortal mind into the morontia realities of the immortal soul. Mortal mind subservient to matter is destined to become increasingly material and consequently to suffer eventual personality extinction; mind yielded to spirit is destined to become increasingly spiritual and ultimately to achieve oneness with the surviving and guiding divine spirit and in this way to attain survival and eternity of personality existence.
0:5.9 3. Spirit. The divine spirit that indwells the mind of man — the Thought Adjuster. This immortal spirit is prepersonal — not a personality, though destined to become a part of the personality of the surviving mortal creature.
And Bradly, Unltil I return to the forum, which hopefully will be by tomorrow, would you quote from the UB the differences between Soul & Spirit? Thanks.
Soul is morontial. Morontial is that between material and spirit. Spiritization is the morontial becoming less and less material and more and more spirit.
Consider reading Papers 111 & 112.
0:5.11 (9.1) Personality. The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul. Personality is the one changeless reality in an otherwise ever-changing creature experience; and it unifies all other associated factors of individuality. The personality is the unique bestowal which the Universal Father makes upon the living and associated energies of matter, mind, and spirit, and which survives with the survival of the morontial soul.
0:5.12 (9.2) Morontia is a term designating a vast level intervening between the material and the spiritual. It may designate personal or impersonal realities, living or nonliving energies. The warp of morontia is spiritual; its woof is physical.
1:3.6 (25.6) In the universes God the Father is, in potential, the overcontroller of matter, mind, and spirit. Only by means of his far-flung personality circuit does God deal directly with the personalities of his vast creation of will creatures, but he is contactable (outside of Paradise) only in the presences of his fragmented entities, the will of God abroad in the universes. This Paradise spirit that indwells the minds of the mortals of time and there fosters the evolution of the immortal soul of the surviving creature is of the nature and divinity of the Universal Father. But the minds of such evolutionary creatures originate in the local universes and must gain divine perfection by achieving those experiential transformations of spiritual attainment which are the inevitable result of a creature’s choosing to do the will of the Father in heaven.
1:3.7 (26.1) In the inner experience of man, mind is joined to matter. Such material-linked minds cannot survive mortal death. The technique of survival is embraced in those adjustments of the human will and those transformations in the mortal mind whereby such a God-conscious intellect gradually becomes spirit taught and eventually spirit led. This evolution of the human mind from matter association to spirit union results in the transmutation of the potentially spirit phases of the mortal mind into the morontia realities of the immortal soul. Mortal mind subservient to matter is destined to become increasingly material and consequently to suffer eventual personality extinction; mind yielded to spirit is destined to become increasingly spiritual and ultimately to achieve oneness with the surviving and guiding divine spirit and in this way to attain survival and eternity of personality existence.
3. The Evolving Soul
111:3.1 (1218.9) The mistakes of mortal mind and the errors of human conduct may markedly delay the evolution of the soul, although they cannot inhibit such a morontia phenomenon when once it has been initiated by the indwelling Adjuster with the consent of the creature will. But at any time prior to mortal death this same material and human will is empowered to rescind such a choice and to reject survival. Even after survival the ascending mortal still retains this prerogative of choosing to reject eternal life; at any time before fusion with the Adjuster the evolving and ascending creature can choose to forsake the will of the Paradise Father. Fusion with the Adjuster signalizes the fact that the ascending mortal has eternally and unreservedly chosen to do the Father’s will.
111:3.2 (1219.1) During the life in the flesh the evolving soul is enabled to reinforce the supermaterial decisions of the mortal mind. The soul, being supermaterial, does not of itself function on the material level of human experience. Neither can this subspiritual soul, without the collaboration of some spirit of Deity, such as the Adjuster, function above the morontia level. Neither does the soul make final decisions until death or translation divorces it from material association with the mortal mind except when and as this material mind delegates such authority freely and willingly to such a morontia soul of associated function. During life the mortal will, the personality power of decision-choice, is resident in the material mind circuits; as terrestrial mortal growth proceeds, this self, with its priceless powers of choice, becomes increasingly identified with the emerging morontia-soul entity; after death and following the mansion world resurrection, the human personality is completely identified with the morontia self. The soul is thus the embryo of the future morontia vehicle of personality identity.
111:3.3 (1219.2) This immortal soul is at first wholly morontia in nature, but it possesses such a capacity for development that it invariably ascends to the true spirit levels of fusion value with the spirits of Deity, usually with the same spirit of the Universal Father that initiated such a creative phenomenon in the creature mind.
111:3.4 (1219.3) Both the human mind and the divine Adjuster are conscious of the presence and differential nature of the evolving soul—the Adjuster fully, the mind partially. The soul becomes increasingly conscious of both the mind and the Adjuster as associated identities, proportional to its own evolutionary growth. The soul partakes of the qualities of both the human mind and the divine spirit but persistently evolves toward augmentation of spirit control and divine dominance through the fostering of a mind function whose meanings seek to co-ordinate with true spirit value.
111:3.5 (1219.4) The mortal career, the soul’s evolution, is not so much a probation as an education. Faith in the survival of supreme values is the core of religion; genuine religious experience consists in the union of supreme values and cosmic meanings as a realization of universal reality.
111:3.6 (1219.5) Mind knows quantity, reality, meanings. But quality—values—is felt. That which feels is the mutual creation of mind, which knows, and the associated spirit, which reality-izes.
111:3.7 (1219.6) In so far as man’s evolving morontia soul becomes permeated by truth, beauty, and goodness as the value-realization of God-consciousness, such a resultant being becomes indestructible. If there is no survival of eternal values in the evolving soul of man, then mortal existence is without meaning, and life itself is a tragic illusion. But it is forever true: What you begin in time you will assuredly finish in eternity—if it is worth finishing.
5. Survival of the Human Self
112:5.1 (1232.2) Selfhood is a cosmic reality whether material, morontial, or spiritual. The actuality of the personal is the bestowal of the Universal Father acting in and of himself or through his manifold universe agencies. To say that a being is personal is to recognize the relative individuation of such a being within the cosmic organism. The living cosmos is an all but infinitely integrated aggregation of real units, all of which are relatively subject to the destiny of the whole. But those that are personal have been endowed with the actual choice of destiny acceptance or of destiny rejection.
112:5.2 (1232.3) That which comes from the Father is like the Father eternal, and this is just as true of personality, which God gives by his own freewill choice, as it is of the divine Thought Adjuster, an actual fragment of God. Man’s personality is eternal but with regard to identity a conditioned eternal reality. Having appeared in response to the Father’s will, personality will attain Deity destiny, but man must choose whether or not he will be present at the attainment of such destiny. In default of such choice, personality attains experiential Deity directly, becoming a part of the Supreme Being. The cycle is foreordained, but man’s participation therein is optional, personal, and experiential.
112:5.3 (1232.4) Mortal identity is a transient time-life condition in the universe; it is real only in so far as the personality elects to become a continuing universe phenomenon. This is the essential difference between man and an energy system: The energy system must continue, it has no choice; but man has everything to do with determining his own destiny. The Adjuster is truly the path to Paradise, but man himself must pursue that path by his own deciding, his freewill choosing.
112:5.4 (1232.5) Human beings possess identity only in the material sense. Such qualities of the self are expressed by the material mind as it functions in the energy system of the intellect. When it is said that man has identity, it is recognized that he is in possession of a mind circuit which has been placed in subordination to the acts and choosing of the will of the human personality. But this is a material and purely temporary manifestation, just as the human embryo is a transient parasitic stage of human life. Human beings, from a cosmic perspective, are born, live, and die in a relative instant of time; they are not enduring. But mortal personality, through its own choosing, possesses the power of transferring its seat of identity from the passing material-intellect system to the higher morontia-soul system which, in association with the Thought Adjuster, is created as a new vehicle for personality manifestation.
112:5.5 (1233.1) And it is this very power of choice, the universe insignia of freewill creaturehood, that constitutes man’s greatest opportunity and his supreme cosmic responsibility. Upon the integrity of the human volition depends the eternal destiny of the future finaliter; upon the sincerity of the mortal free will the divine Adjuster depends for eternal personality; upon the faithfulness of mortal choice the Universal Father depends for the realization of a new ascending son; upon the steadfastness and wisdom of decision-actions the Supreme Being depends for the actuality of experiential evolution.
112:5.6 (1233.2) Though the cosmic circles of personality growth must eventually be attained, if, through no fault of your own, the accidents of time and the handicaps of material existence prevent your mastering these levels on your native planet, if your intentions and desires are of survival value, there are issued the decrees of probation extension. You will be afforded additional time in which to prove yourself.
112:5.7 (1233.3) If ever there is doubt as to the advisability of advancing a human identity to the mansion worlds, the universe governments invariably rule in the personal interests of that individual; they unhesitatingly advance such a soul to the status of a transitional being, while they continue their observations of the emerging morontia intent and spiritual purpose. Thus divine justice is certain of achievement, and divine mercy is accorded further opportunity for extending its ministry.
112:5.8 (1233.4) The governments of Orvonton and Nebadon do not claim absolute perfection for the detail working of the universal plan of mortal repersonalization, but they do claim to, and actually do, manifest patience, tolerance, understanding, and merciful sympathy. We had rather assume the risk of a system rebellion than to court the hazard of depriving one struggling mortal from any evolutionary world of the eternal joy of pursuing the ascending career.
112:5.9 (1233.5) This does not mean that human beings are to enjoy a second opportunity in the face of the rejection of a first, not at all. But it does signify that all will creatures are to experience one true opportunity to make one undoubted, self-conscious, and final choice. The sovereign Judges of the universes will not deprive any being of personality status who has not finally and fully made the eternal choice; the soul of man must and will be given full and ample opportunity to reveal its true intent and real purpose.
112:5.10 (1233.6) When the more spiritually and cosmically advanced mortals die, they proceed immediately to the mansion worlds; in general, this provision operates with those who have had assigned to them personal seraphic guardians. Other mortals may be detained until such time as the adjudication of their affairs has been completed, after which they may proceed to the mansion worlds, or they may be assigned to the ranks of the sleeping survivors who will be repersonalized en masse at the end of the current planetary dispensation.
112:5.11 (1233.7) There are two difficulties that hamper my efforts to explain just what happens to you in death, the surviving you which is distinct from the departing Adjuster. One of these consists in the impossibility of conveying to your level of comprehension an adequate description of a transaction on the borderland of the physical and morontia realms. The other is brought about by the restrictions placed upon my commission as a revelator of truth by the celestial governing authorities of Urantia. There are many interesting details which might be presented, but I withhold them upon the advice of your immediate planetary supervisors. But within the limits of my permission I can say this much:
112:5.12 (1234.1) There is something real, something of human evolution, something additional to the Mystery Monitor, which survives death. This newly appearing entity is the soul, and it survives the death of both your physical body and your material mind. This entity is the conjoint child of the combined life and efforts of the human you in liaison with the divine you, the Adjuster. This child of human and divine parentage constitutes the surviving element of terrestrial origin; it is the morontia self, the immortal soul.
112:5.13 (1234.2) This child of persisting meaning and surviving value is wholly unconscious during the period from death to repersonalization and is in the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardian throughout this season of waiting. You will not function as a conscious being, following death, until you attain the new consciousness of morontia on the mansion worlds of Satania.
112:5.14 (1234.3) At death the functional identity associated with the human personality is disrupted through the cessation of vital motion. Human personality, while transcending its constituent parts, is dependent on them for functional identity. The stoppage of life destroys the physical brain patterns for mind endowment, and the disruption of mind terminates mortal consciousness. The consciousness of that creature cannot subsequently reappear until a cosmic situation has been arranged which will permit the same human personality again to function in relationship with living energy.
112:5.15 (1234.4) During the transit of surviving mortals from the world of origin to the mansion worlds, whether they experience personality reassembly on the third period or ascend at the time of a group resurrection, the record of personality constitution is faithfully preserved by the archangels on their worlds of special activities. These beings are not the custodians of personality (as the guardian seraphim are of the soul), but it is nonetheless true that every identifiable factor of personality is effectually safeguarded in the custody of these dependable trustees of mortal survival. As to the exact whereabouts of mortal personality during the time intervening between death and survival, we do not know.
112:5.16 (1234.5) The situation which makes repersonalization possible is brought about in the resurrection halls of the morontia receiving planets of a local universe. Here in these life-assembly chambers the supervising authorities provide that relationship of universe energy—morontial, mindal, and spiritual—which makes possible the reconsciousizing of the sleeping survivor. The reassembly of the constituent parts of a onetime material personality involves:
112:5.17 (1234.6) 1. The fabrication of a suitable form, a morontia energy pattern, in which the new survivor can make contact with nonspiritual reality, and within which the morontia variant of the cosmic mind can be encircuited.
112:5.18 (1234.7) 2. The return of the Adjuster to the waiting morontia creature. The Adjuster is the eternal custodian of your ascending identity; your Monitor is the absolute assurance that you yourself and not another will occupy the morontia form created for your personality awakening. And the Adjuster will be present at your personality reassembly to take up once more the role of Paradise guide to your surviving self.
112:5.19 (1235.1) 3. When these prerequisites of repersonalization have been assembled, the seraphic custodian of the potentialities of the slumbering immortal soul, with the assistance of numerous cosmic personalities, bestows this morontia entity upon and in the awaiting morontia mind-body form while committing this evolutionary child of the Supreme to eternal association with the waiting Adjuster. And this completes the repersonalization, reassembly of memory, insight, and consciousness—identity.
112:5.20 (1235.2) The fact of repersonalization consists in the seizure of the encircuited morontia phase of the newly segregated cosmic mind by the awakening human self. The phenomenon of personality is dependent on the persistence of the identity of selfhood reaction to universe environment; and this can only be effected through the medium of mind. Selfhood persists in spite of a continuous change in all the factor components of self; in the physical life the change is gradual; at death and upon repersonalization the change is sudden. The true reality of all selfhood (personality) is able to function responsively to universe conditions by virtue of the unceasing changing of its constituent parts; stagnation terminates in inevitable death. Human life is an endless change of the factors of life unified by the stability of the unchanging personality.
112:5.21 (1235.3) And when you thus awaken on the mansion worlds of Jerusem, you will be so changed, the spiritual transformation will be so great that, were it not for your Thought Adjuster and the destiny guardian, who so fully connect up your new life in the new worlds with your old life in the first world, you would at first have difficulty in connecting the new morontia consciousness with the reviving memory of your previous identity. Notwithstanding the continuity of personal selfhood, much of the mortal life would at first seem to be a vague and hazy dream. But time will clarify many mortal associations.
112:5.22 (1235.4) The Thought Adjuster will recall and rehearse for you only those memories and experiences which are a part of, and essential to, your universe career. If the Adjuster has been a partner in the evolution of aught in the human mind, then will these worth-while experiences survive in the eternal consciousness of the Adjuster. But much of your past life and its memories, having neither spiritual meaning nor morontia value, will perish with the material brain; much of material experience will pass away as onetime scaffolding which, having bridged you over to the morontia level, no longer serves a purpose in the universe. But personality and the relationships between personalities are never scaffolding; mortal memory of personality relationships has cosmic value and will persist. On the mansion worlds you will know and be known, and more, you will remember, and be remembered by, your onetime associates in the short but intriguing life on Urantia.
6. The Morontia Self
Wow! Thank you Mara & Bradly! I will take a short break from adding more comments until Flower24 has a chance to catch up with all the posts thus far. Plus I want to read what you both recently posted.
First of all, I would like to point out that I have never summoned spirits and have never channeled anything, nor have I ever taken mind-expanding drugs, but all the following events described just happened to me again and again. Before I describe my own experiences with Reincarnation, I would like to mention a few events from my childhood that I believe were extraordinary. As a child, it often took me a long time to fall asleep, and when I was about 5 years old, I began to be able to hear what the previous residents were doing before falling asleep and then later also see the previous residents. I later experienced the same thing in an old farmhouse and then told the landlord that 3 families lived in this house at the same time in a very small space after the Second World War. In other old houses I could also see (that was during the day when I was awake) that many tuberculosis patients had stayed there after the world war and quite a few had died there. This could also be checked and confirmed immediately. In the further course of my life, I found other people’s lost/misplaced objects (keys, doctor’s prescriptions), even from a distance, although I was not in their apartment and was never there when the objects were lost. All of a sudden, I “knew” where these objects were. Likewise, I could locate people I knew in a city without any prior appointment, I suddenly “knew” where and when I would meet them, and that’s what happened. I also hear 10 to 15 minutes in advance when my roommates are coming home; I hear exactly what is going on before arriving, as it happens then. I also hear music or choral singing, very quietly, although no music is playing. Since I was 6 years old I have been experiencing regular exits from my physical body and I then go to different places (also known as out of body experience) or have received a lot of information from other worlds and spheres. For example, I found out that a friend was cheating on me with another woman, or I traveled out of body to friends’ houses at night and found incorrectly assembled electrical cables and thereby prevented a fire in the house. I mentioned the out of body experience because some reincarnation memories came about through out of body experience; I then experienced parts of that life again. Before I came into contact with beings of light, I remembered 2 past lives, one of them as an out of body experience at the age of 19, but I didn’t know at the time that it was an out of body experience.
At the age of 27, I was repeatedly attacked by dark forces in the astral state and then it suddenly happened that I was able to defend myself with white-golden light, which shot out of my subtle hands, and was able to dissolve the dark forces with it. Dark forces do exist, on the one hand in some astral worlds and they try to hold souls there by creating illusions and traps and on the other hand people walk around with them too; I’ve seen those myself. 5 years later I had a special encounter with a being of light. I was meditating for the third time asking for contact with God and the angels. Then I got into bed and a few minutes later I was on a higher plane and I felt like I was floating 50 cm above my physical body. It was dark around me and I asked in my mind what would happen now. A loud, echoing but pleasant female voice told me: “We would like to tell you something”. I calmed down and in that moment I/my mind clearly grasped that as another reality. Then the voice said to me: “From now on you will hear or see directly.” Then golden light came with a warm breeze and at the same time loving and powerful and flowed into my crown, heart area, eyes, ears and in the hands. The creature and I still put our hands together. I could see them, they were about 40 to 50 cm long and glittered gold. Abruptly I found myself back in the physical body and in bed. My heart rate increased, I felt pressure in my eyes, my ears cracked loudly as if you were on a high mountain. Since then I have been able to remember about 30 past lives on this planet and it happened either through an astral journey or through an inner image suddenly arising with an emotion or through an inner image suddenly arising without emotion, through regression or through a sudden change for some seconds into each time. Since this contact with the being of light I experienced accumulated out of body experiences and I have recorded over 500 and some of them, as already mentioned, took me to past lives, others to the astral planes of the earth and others to other worlds (planets) and other spheres. I clearly experience the exit from the physical body, combined with crackling, buzzing and humming in my head. Sometimes the physical body tries to hold me back, then I have to sneak out while it falls asleep. Below are some listings of astral journeys that led either to the astral worlds of the earth or to other worlds or spheres, before I read the Urantia Book:
- In about 50 cases I tracked down souls or parts of souls that were stuck in the astral plane and prepared them for the soul transport; this is called soul retrieval in the out of body experience scene; some of those souls that were stuck in the near earth realm told me that they didn’t go to the next level because they were afraid of judgment or eternal damnation. They had been misinformed or manipulated.
- in 160 cases I have dissolved dark forces, either with white-golden light from my subtle hands or with a white lightsaber with a white flame. These dark forces intended to keep souls there; an illusion world was created for such souls
- In some out of body experiences I have prepared souls/beings for onward transport to another sphere • Several meetings with others, several hundred angels in a kind of amphitheater where a speaker announced the latest news from different areas of the universes that are very important for the angels (I was one of them and not just an observer) • Participated in a meeting of the “Council of the Earth” where the future of the Earth was discussed (I was one of them and not just an observer)
- Several visits to a cosmic university where knowledge about different evolutionary planets was imparted (I was one of them and not just an observer)
- Several visits to an angelic school to begin training towards higher angelic status (I was one of them and not just an observer)
- Visiting huge halls with gigantic laboratories where the prototypes of beings for physical planets were created (here I was a visitor)
- During one of my nocturnal out of body experiences I noticed that a soul was carrying a code or registration number
- I also have memories of standing desks in a large meadow of flowers and where I designed butterflies with some other angels at these standing desks, each one unique and beautiful. After they finished, we touched the butterflies and white-golden light flowed from us and together with an impulse they came to life and flew into this world.
All of these episodes have not just flashed into my mind/memory as brief memories, but I have experienced them as complex plots involving dialogues with other beings. Approximately two years later I was given the Urantia Book by a friend. I started reading it and once while I was discussing a chapter in The Urantia Book with my husband (he was sitting across from me) he suddenly became aware of a subtle light being next to me, holding a high desk in front of him and writing something. My husband had not read the Urantia Book, but I then found out that this being was a chronicler angel. For me the Urantia Book was intended to find out my psychic origins, which did not begin on this planet because of the experiences described above, because many different orders of beings are described in the Urantia Book and a few would come into consideration, however I had to realize that that the Urantia Book cannot or will not fulfil, even though it imparts such great cosmic knowledge. And so I then read many other books and websites on the subject of reincarnation and soul origin. I also know movies that show astral spheres like dr. strange, over the horizon. I have experienced all the experiences described very intensively and I can say that the divine energy is real and can be experienced in physical life.
To me, the truth is not found in a single scripture, but is spread across multiple sources. This includes not only books, but also films, music, regressions, as well as my own experiences and the experiences of other people.
Best regards
Wow Flower24! You certainly answered in great detail my original question regarding your personal experiences! Very interesting on one hand, but based on my experience on this forum, I have found that the main goal & desire of most everyone in this forum is to discuss and learn whatever we can regarding the contents of the Urantia Book, which is an objective source of information. For though I may have questions and comments about your fascinating experiences, there’s no way for anyone else to verify your experiences, and likely no productive way for all of us to discuss your experiences in a way that achieves the goal & desire of this forum.
I do appreciate that you mentioned how you became aware of the Urantia Book, but I don’t recall reading any part of the UB that would explain yours (or anyone else’s) psychic origins. In fact, the UB gives the impression that psychic ability is either not real or practiced by those who do not have the highest ideals as their personal goals. So I was a bit confused by that particular comment of yours. But if you want to discuss your unusual experiences further, feel free to email me.
But, since we are still on this forum, and since you have had such noteworthy experiences, why do YOU suppose the Urantia Book claims reincarnation is a false teaching? Also, how do your experiences relate/support the main message of Jesus/Michael, which was the goal of us humans to fully recognize and appreciate God as our “Universal Parent” (which was a term found in one of the versions of the Lord’s prayer in the UB), and to fully realize that all human beings are essentially our spiritual siblings? Btw, that message was profound 2000 years ago, for nearly all societies on the Earth back then failed to achieve true equality, including Jewish society.
Let me ask if your are aware of (or have read) Robert Monroe’s last book “Ultimate Journey”? I have read that book, and the one before that one. If you haven’t read “Ultimate Journey”, you should read it, if you have the time, for his opinion of out-of- body journeys changed after he met his Higher Self, who told him to stop spending so much time with his normal out-of-body travels and instead “travel within” to make good contact with his Higher Self, possibly because the outward journeys were mainly feeding his ego.
Likewise, Edgar Cayce strongly advised people to get to know their Higher Selves, and then ask that Being to meet The Christ. Coincidentally, not long ago, I read in the UB something that clearly implied that the our immediate Higher Selves are our Thought Adjusters. And The Grail Message seems to describe our true “Intuition” in ways that made me think it was actually describing our Thought Adjusters, especially if our true intuition is our “Tutor/Teacher Within”.
I hope you (Flower24) interpret this post as friendly advice (which I intended) rather than criticism (which I didn’t intend). I never had such dramatic experiences like yours, but I have read enough to know what the best metaphysical literature (including the UB) recommends for all of us.
Best regards, Michael
I have had an active Kundalini since the age of 32, which was set in motion by meditation at the time. Up until the age of 41 it flowed up the spine like a gentle electric ripple current, especially when anything was being healed. I experienced that sweet tasting nectar ran from my brain down my throat and refreshed the entire body in a healing way. Another time I clearly felt a hand reach into my brain and stop the stream of thoughts for a few minutes and the brain received new wiring. I didn’t know anything about Kundalini at the time. When she was 41 years old, she shot up her back in a flash as a high-voltage fire current, causing heat, convulsions, sweating, palpitations and insomnia. She pierced the chakras one by one, with the head chakras and the heart chakra being the most noticeable. In the process, past mental injuries were taken out and “burned”. A kundalini ascent cleanses the soul-mind system, I call it mental fever and fever is an important healing agent of the body. Kundalini cleansing is also known as mystical fire or agni fire.
For the first few weeks I wanted to prevent this process of change, but that only made things worse. Piercing the heart chakra was the most problematic. It announced itself with dizziness and I saw stars dancing in front of my eyes. With a bit of fear I asked myself what would happen to me again. At home I went to bed and closed my eyes as it started. Immense, painful pressure was building up in my chest in my heart area. I didn’t know what was happening, but at first I thought: “Well, it’s a heart attack, I knew it all along, but nobody believed me”. The pressure increased in my heart and something inside me let go, it felt like something inside me was dying in that moment. I spread both arms and said, ‘Well, dear God, may it be done, Thy will be done. When my time has come, then that’s the way it is, you can pick me up now, well, then pick me’. At that moment there was a flash inside me, inside my heart (but an inner dimension) something exploded. I surrendered to that, and then I saw something dark fly out of my heart, it was literally blasted away. I saw all of this as if I was inside (but as an inner dimension) my physical body and I further saw that there was now a bright white light coming from inside me (somewhere from the middle of my body but up another dimension), spilled into my heart. My heart was flooded with this light; it felt like water, like cool refreshing water. I kept very still because somehow I knew I couldn’t interrupt this process, it was important, immensely important, that this could happen now. Well, I totally surrendered to what I couldn’t explain with my logical mind. At that moment I wondered if you can drown in light. The white light then spread throughout the body and the entire body felt refreshed from within. After a while this flood of light slowly ebbed away, then I woke up even though I had been awake the whole time, but that’s how it felt and I felt like a new person. Since then, the still active Kundalini has become bearable. It then spread through the brain and mind and as a result I often saw light structures in front of my eyes with my eyes closed that look like mandalas. And when you can see this, you align yourself with the true self. Anyway, I haven’t noticed any other past lives since then, because that wasn’t important anymore. However, out of body experiences continue to take place, in particular the bringing out of the souls from the dark entanglements of the astral worlds. Because attention to the true self and out of body experience are not mutually exclusive.
So…I wonder flower24 what it is about the Urantia Papers you might like to explore??
The description of your experiences and powers is quite extraordinary. The personal spiritization adventure can deliver very powerful feelings and connections. That mind which can transcend the material and transform itself by shifting the seat of identity is capable of amazing things indeed.
While no one here is obligated to believe or agree with the teachings in the UB, still it is that which we share here in study and discussion. Perhaps you can relate the UB to your perspective and philosophy?
Thanks for sharing.
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