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164:3.4 [Part IV] […] The Master found it difficult to make men believe that their souls had not had previous existences.
No such thing as reincarnation.
I have a very possible/probable solution to this reincarnation debate based on statements made in the Urantia Book, but I welcome anyone to identify the location of at least one of the UB references I will make. I’m better at remembering ideas rather than where specific quotes are.
Ok, when I first joined this forum, I truly thought reincarnation was part of our human reality, but as I read the UB, I changed my mind to the idea that those who claim reincarnation is real for us humans are mis-perceiving some other real but technically unrelated phenomenon, though I had not found any good examples or analogies to make my points as clearly as I wanted, until now…
In UB Paper 41, Sections 5.6 & 5.7, we are amazingly informed about the human mis-perception of energy (such as light) paradoxically moving as BOTH particles & waves. We learn from the UB that light moves in straight lines, but that other forces are acting upon the light which gives us humans the illusion that the nature of light must also consist of waves. The UB further uses the analogy of rain sometimes appearing to fall in sheets or waves, but that is not the true nature of rain.
Likewise, reincarnation is not the actual process/phenomenon that we humans experience, even though it may appear that way to some of us humans. So here is what may be happening…the UB states somewhere in the 1st half of the book that Urantia (which we know is our Earth) is visited almost daily by other-worldly beings, such as student visitors. Assuming that is true, then we can assume that sometime during those visits, the students are taking guided tours of our planet. There are at least 2 kinds of beings mentioned in the UB – Angels and Midwayers – who would be well-qualified to serve as tour guides due to their having perfect knowledge of Earth’s history, as well as having perfect knowledge of all the humans who ever lived on our planet Earth.
It is also possible/probable that all such planetary tourist information is conveyed directly from the minds of the tour guides to the minds of the student visitors, similar to how telepathy supposedly could theoretically work. But honestly, due the inefficient method of ordinary verbal communication, such communication is likely highly interactive, where complete thoughts & emotions “are worth thousands of words”.
At any given time & place, humans could potentially walk right into such a tour and never directly perceive it or its participants, for the beings involved are naturally functioning in a greater/higher dimensional reality which is “normally” invisible & inaudible to humans. But what if, on rare occasions, human minds CAN or DO pick up such normally imperceptible tour guide communication, similar to how the Smithsonian museums in Washington DC are set up to play audio/video that automatically starts playing when cameras sense your presence in front of the related display?! The answer is that such accidental humans encounters with such advanced beings would easily fool us humans into thinking we were somehow connected to the persons, locations and/or events being “discussed” among the tour guide participants, due to the sudden thoughts simply entering our minds.
If you think that such scenarios are not possible, consider that the UB states that even the jailed apostles of Jesus were set free by a Midway Creature, but they mistakenly assumed it was an Angel who freed them. Thus, humans can have rare interactions with Angels/Midwayers but also mis-perceive them.
Bye for now.
. . . but as I read the UB, I changed my mind to the idea that those who claim reincarnation is real for us humans are mis-perceiving some other real but technically unrelated phenomenon . . . .
As I understand the theory of reincarnation, it is the belief that the soul or spirit has had previous lives as a weed, an insect, an animal, or some other being such as a human who lived in the past. As I understand it, a person goes through an apparently endless cycle of death (from a dead weed, from a dead insect, from a dead animal, from a dead human) and then gets reborn into one or another of the examples I mentioned. In this day and age I never heard anyone report back what life was like as an insect. Usually they report themselves as having been a famous person from the past.
101:3.1 [Part III]Religion is so vital that it persists in the absence of learning. It lives in spite of its contamination with erroneous cosmologies and false philosophies; it survives even the confusion of metaphysics. In and through all the historic vicissitudes of religion there ever persists that which is indispensable to human progress and survival: the ethical conscience and the moral consciousness..1:3.7 [Part I] In the inner experience of man, mind is joined to matter. Such material-linked minds cannot survive mortal death. The technique of survival is embraced in those adjustments of the human will and those transformations in the mortal mind whereby such a God-conscious intellect gradually becomes spirit taught and eventually spirit led. This evolution of the human mind from matter association to spirit union results in the transmutation of the potentially spirit phases of the mortal mind into the morontia realities of the immortal soul. Mortal mind subservient to matter is destined to become increasingly material and consequently to suffer eventual personality extinction; mind yielded to spirit is destined to become increasingly spiritual and ultimately to achieve oneness with the surviving and guiding divine spirit and in this way to attain survival and eternity of personality existence.
5:4.7 [Part I]The Zoroastrians had a religion of morals; the Hindus a religion of metaphysics; the Confucianists a religion of ethics. Jesus lived a religion of service. All these religions are of value in that they are valid approaches to the religion of Jesus. Religion is destined to become the reality of the spiritual unification of all that is good, beautiful, and true in human experience.Richsachs,
I think you are well intended and sincere. But after reading your posts, I can only say that they reflect incongruous and irrelevant responses. It’s sad to say that, while all the UB quotes you use are inspiring, you generally use them out of content. This is annoying. I suggest for you at this time that you concentrate more on what you read than on what you should write.
Fraternal affection.
Rich, are you aware that the idea of reincarnation is already somewhat outdated/replaced with the idea simultaneous realities/lifetimes even within the New Age movement?! Neale Donald Walsh (within his 3rd Conversations With God book), Dolores Cannon (within the Conversations With Nostradamus series), and some others presented this as a fact, suggesting that the only reason that people continue to believe in reincarnation is because they are either incapable/unwilling to understand this greater reality/truth. So I’m actually surprised that you are so beholden to the Seth Material. Even Emanuel Swedenborg from hundreds of years ago said it was revealed to him that reincarnation was a falsehood based on misperception of such a greater reality that actually seemed very similar to the idea of repersonalization as presented in the Urantia Book. Swedenborg also said we humans never come back to live a physical life on this Earth, and the real process of our continued existence is only taking place in the afterlife in an existence that seems very much like the Morontia existence revealed in the Urantia Book. And quite recently I have even received such confirmation from teachers with the New Age movement that we are NOT experiencing reincarnation after our physical death, but they continue to teach it simply because their followers (and even they themselves) can’t quite explain how simultaneous realities/lifetimes work. In my opinion, there are enough practical clues in the UB to logically explain how simultaneous realities/lifetimes could work.
The answer to that mystery is to learn all what is taught in the Urantia Book regarding repersonalization, and especially notice the reference about the Thought Adjusters engaging in the process of cross-planetary fertilization. Notice also how bees fertilize flowers, since it seems to be analogous on a small, physical scale to what Thought Adjusters do on a large, non-physical scale. Notice especially how individual bees move from flower to flower, NEVER returning to flowers they have already visited before. Likewise, Thought Adjusters pick up where they left us off after we become aware/alive in the Morontia existence. There is where we go from world to world based on our needs for growth/maturity within the Mantion World system.
You “positively suggest”….what?
That superstition and primitive beliefs are somehow accurate? You promote shamanism, witchcraft, and voodoo?
Here?
Paper 92 teaches us how primitive such evolutionary steps are, especially so today.
You embrace and justify primitivism here rich by your claims and disagreement with the UB. I wonder if you also believe in possession by evil spirits and the evil eye?
Humans. We’re a funny bunch of monkeys after all.
Salut Richssachs
T’est sympa mais chiant, tu n’a rien à faire sur ce forum, tu polue la discution par tes interventions, mais je pense que c’est ce que tu désire.
Si les modérateurs ne te vire pas, je quitte le forum
à bon entendeur.
Jean
Salut Richssachs T’est sympa mais chiant, tu n’a rien à faire sur ce forum, tu polue la discution par tes interventions, mais je pense que c’est ce que tu désire. Si les modérateurs ne te vire pas, je quitte le forum à bon entendeur. Jean
Translation:
“You’re nice but boring, you have nothing to do on this forum, you polish the discussion by your interventions, but I think that’s what you want.
If the moderators don’t fire you, I leave the forum
to be honest.”
I agree.
Such a pity.
Thank you Bradly for your remarks, including translating Jean’s comments into English. I have to generally agree with all the comments from others that suggest Rich’s comments seem a bit unconnected and thus sometimes illogical, which is too bad because he obviously has no trouble finding interesting quotes from the UB.
Rich – Your continued promotion of channeling remains inappropriate and inaccurate and should already have you banished here for your incorrigible repetition of this false claim which is not supported by the text you posted and is a direct contradiction of the Papers as repeatedly pointed out.
Beyond exasperation.
Thank you Bradly for your remarks, including translating Jean’s comments into English. I have to generally agree with all the comments from others that suggest Rich’s comments seem a bit unconnected and thus sometimes illogical, which is too bad because he obviously has no trouble finding interesting quotes from the UB.
Thank you for sticking around despite the kerfluffle. The book is fascinating! It is chock full of amazing information about God – our origin, our history, our destiny. He sees the end from the beginning. He knows us inside and out. In him we live, we move, and we have our being. He gives each one of us life. He gives each one of us a TA – a fragment of himself. He gives each one of us a unique personality. And so much more. I think we are mostly imperfect now in this first and only life on Urantia.
2:2.6 God is eternally and infinitely perfect, he cannot personally know imperfection as his own experience, but he does share the consciousness of all the experience of imperfectness of all the struggling creatures of the evolutionary universes of all the Paradise Creator Sons. The personal and liberating touch of the God of perfection overshadows the hearts and encircuits the natures of all those mortal creatures who have ascended to the universe level of moral discernment. In this manner, as well as through the contacts of the divine presence, the Universal Father actually participates in the experience with immaturity and imperfection in the evolving career of every moral being of the entire universe.
God participates in the experience with immaturity and imperfection in the evolving career of every moral being of the entire universe. Amazing grace!
I am feeling a group hug right now. Thanks to all. I appreciate all who seek to discover, learn, and share the Papers here to gain a greater understanding of this fascinating universe reality perspective!!
Salut les amis,
Etant donné que j’écris en français, je vous conseille d’utiliser le tractucteur automatique “DeepL”.
Moi j’ai enclenché le traducteur pour tout les messages du forum et ça marche assez bien.
Jean
Hi friends,
Since I write in French, I advise you to use the automatic translator “DeepL”.
I have activated the translator for all the messages of the forum and it works quite well.
Jean
Thank you Bradly for your remarks, including translating Jean’s comments into English. I have to generally agree with all the comments from others that suggest Rich’s comments seem a bit unconnected and thus sometimes illogical, which is too bad because he obviously has no trouble finding interesting quotes from the UB.
Greetings Michael!!!
Yes. Rich has been around the on-line study group communities a long time. Not very long here. He has lost posting privileges at multiple groups due to his “disconnection” and unresponsiveness and irrelevant posts and topical piracy, imposed upon this site more recently.
It has not been so because of his personal disagreement with many (or several?) teachings in the Papers. No students of the UB or other seekers of truth are required to agree with or believe the claims of the Papers authors here or any such study group I have ever attended to be welcomed and engaged in sharing the study of the UB.
But we are all guests and participants in a group dynamic and classroom and community that requires and depends upon a certain element of shared objectives and priorities and intentions regardless of agreement or disagreement.
Every tadpole is blessed by their unique and personalized experience and expression of our adventures in truth and reality perspective. And we can all benefit by such diversity of beliefs and understanding and perspective of other truthseekers and religionists.
A classroom or study group, however, requires each student be mutually motivated by learning and sharing and also teaching others by our own discovery of knowledge and meanings and values. The UB says that sharing and teaching is the only true evidence of learning.
My personal exasperation and impatience with rich’s perplexing and irrelevant intrusions here are a personal problem of my own requiring further control and patience on my own part I think. But I am glad to know I am not the only one here to find the situation untenable and an unwelcome distraction from our purpose here.
Thanks Michael.
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