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Sort of, yes….. Parts I & II are rather complete in the who begat whom story for each form of celestial from Paradise down through the Local Universes. And it definitely does state how many of each is so created and who the parents are in co-creation. I recommend the beginning of Part II (reading that section now sequentially again) for a exhaustive description. It is unfortunate that Scott took us all down this rabbit hole…and I don’t think it was his intention to do so as he was simply looking for some analogous way to discuss “liaison”; however, it is a far shorter list to demonstrate ANY life formed by the co-creation by ANY celestial than otherwise – it’s a real short list. Angels do not make angels (or any others) and only Creator Sons (note the name) create life in their Locals along with or in liaison with the Mother Spirit (although, as noted there are some life forms, if few, created by those created life forms – humans and midwayers and the children of the Adam and Eves being examples):
(359.3) 32:2.6 Presently, the physical plan of a universe is completed, and the Creator Son, in association with the Creative Spirit, projects his plan of life creation; whereupon does this representation of the Infinite Spirit begin her universe function as a distinct creative personality. When this first creative act is formulated and executed, there springs into being the Bright and Morning Star, the personification of this initial creative concept of identity and ideal of divinity. This is the chief executive of the universe, the personal associate of the Creator Son, one like him in all aspects of character, though markedly limited in the attributes of divinity.
(359.4) 32:2.7 And now that the right-hand helper and chief executive of the Creator Son has been provided, there ensues the bringing into existence of a vast and wonderful array of diverse creatures. The sons and daughters of the local universe are forthcoming, and soon thereafter the government of such a creation is provided, extending from the supreme councils of the universe to the fathers of the constellations and the sovereigns of the local systems — the aggregations of those worlds which are designed subsequently to become the homes of the varied mortal races of will creatures; and each of these worlds will be presided over by a Planetary Prince.
(359.5) 32:2.8 And then, when such a universe has been so completely organized and so repletely manned, does the Creator Son enter into the Father’s proposal to create mortal man in their divine image.
(367.1) 33:1.4 The Creator Son is the vicegerent personalization of the Universal Father, the divinity co-ordinate of the Eternal Son, and the creative associate of the Infinite Spirit. To our universe and all its inhabited worlds the Sovereign Son is, to all practical intents and purposes, God. He personifies all of the Paradise Deities which evolving mortals can discerningly comprehend. This Son and his Spirit associate are your creator parents. To you, Michael, the Creator Son, is the supreme personality; to you, the Eternal Son is supersupreme — an infinite Deity personality.
(368.1) 33:3.1 While pervading all the universes of time and space, the Infinite Spirit functions from the headquarters of each local universe as a specialized focalization acquiring full personality qualities by the technique of creative co-operation with the Creator Son. As concerns a local universe, the administrative authority of a Creator Son is supreme; the Infinite Spirit, as the Divine Minister, is wholly co-operative though perfectly co-ordinate.
(368.2) 33:3.2 The Universe Mother Spirit of Salvington, the associate of Michael in the control and administration of Nebadon, is of the sixth group of Supreme Spirits, being the 611,121st of that order. She volunteered to accompany Michael on the occasion of his liberation from Paradise obligations and has ever since functioned with him in creating and governing his universe.
(368.3) 33:3.3 The Master Creator Son is the personal sovereign of his universe, but in all the details of its management the Universe Spirit is codirector with the Son. While the Spirit ever acknowledges the Son as sovereign and ruler, the Son always accords the Spirit a co-ordinate position and equality of authority in all the affairs of the realm. In all his work of love and life bestowal the Creator Son is always and ever perfectly sustained and ably assisted by the all-wise and ever-faithful Universe Spirit and by all of her diversified retinue of angelic personalities. Such a Divine Minister is in reality the mother of spirits and spirit personalities, the ever-present and all-wise adviser of the Creator Son, a faithful and true manifestation of the Paradise Infinite Spirit.
(368.4) 33:3.4 The Son functions as a father in his local universe. The Spirit, as mortal creatures would understand, enacts the role of a mother, always assisting the Son and being everlastingly indispensable to the administration of the universe. In the face of insurrection only the Son and his associated Sons can function as deliverers.
Sort of, yes….. Parts I & II are rather complete in the who begat whom story for each form of celestial from Paradise down through the Local Universes. And it definitely does state how many of each is so created and who the parents are in co-creation. I recommend the beginning of Part II (reading that section now sequentially again) for a exhaustive description. It is unfortunate that Scott took us all down this rabbit hole…and I don’t think it was his intention to do so as he was simply looking for some analogous way to discuss “liaison”; however, it is a far shorter list to demonstrate ANY life formed by the co-creation by ANY celestial than otherwise – it’s a real short list. Angels do not make angels (or any others) and only Creator Sons (note the name) create life in their Locals along with or in liaison with the Mother Spirit: (359.3) 32:2.6 Presently, the physical plan of a universe is completed, and the Creator Son, in association with the Creative Spirit, projects his plan of life creation; whereupon does this representation of the Infinite Spirit begin her universe function as a distinct creative personality. When this first creative act is formulated and executed, there springs into being the Bright and Morning Star, the personification of this initial creative concept of identity and ideal of divinity. This is the chief executive of the universe, the personal associate of the Creator Son, one like him in all aspects of character, though markedly limited in the attributes of divinity. (359.4) 32:2.7 And now that the right-hand helper and chief executive of the Creator Son has been provided, there ensues the bringing into existence of a vast and wonderful array of diverse creatures. The sons and daughters of the local universe are forthcoming, and soon thereafter the government of such a creation is provided, extending from the supreme councils of the universe to the fathers of the constellations and the sovereigns of the local systems — the aggregations of those worlds which are designed subsequently to become the homes of the varied mortal races of will creatures; and each of these worlds will be presided over by a Planetary Prince. (359.5) 32:2.8 And then, when such a universe has been so completely organized and so repletely manned, does the Creator Son enter into the Father’s proposal to create mortal man in their divine image. (367.1) 33:1.4 The Creator Son is the vicegerent personalization of the Universal Father, the divinity co-ordinate of the Eternal Son, and the creative associate of the Infinite Spirit. To our universe and all its inhabited worlds the Sovereign Son is, to all practical intents and purposes, God. He personifies all of the Paradise Deities which evolving mortals can discerningly comprehend. This Son and his Spirit associate are your creator parents. To you, Michael, the Creator Son, is the supreme personality; to you, the Eternal Son is supersupreme — an infinite Deity personality. (368.1) 33:3.1 While pervading all the universes of time and space, the Infinite Spirit functions from the headquarters of each local universe as a specialized focalization acquiring full personality qualities by the technique of creative co-operation with the Creator Son. As concerns a local universe, the administrative authority of a Creator Son is supreme; the Infinite Spirit, as the Divine Minister, is wholly co-operative though perfectly co-ordinate. (368.2) 33:3.2 The Universe Mother Spirit of Salvington, the associate of Michael in the control and administration of Nebadon, is of the sixth group of Supreme Spirits, being the 611,121st of that order. She volunteered to accompany Michael on the occasion of his liberation from Paradise obligations and has ever since functioned with him in creating and governing his universe. (368.3) 33:3.3 The Master Creator Son is the personal sovereign of his universe, but in all the details of its management the Universe Spirit is codirector with the Son. While the Spirit ever acknowledges the Son as sovereign and ruler, the Son always accords the Spirit a co-ordinate position and equality of authority in all the affairs of the realm. In all his work of love and life bestowal the Creator Son is always and ever perfectly sustained and ably assisted by the all-wise and ever-faithful Universe Spirit and by all of her diversified retinue of angelic personalities. Such a Divine Minister is in reality the mother of spirits and spirit personalities, the ever-present and all-wise adviser of the Creator Son, a faithful and true manifestation of the Paradise Infinite Spirit. (368.4) 33:3.4 The Son functions as a father in his local universe. The Spirit, as mortal creatures would understand, enacts the role of a mother, always assisting the Son and being everlastingly indispensable to the administration of the universe. In the face of insurrection only the Son and his associated Sons can function as deliverers.
Thanks for the references. I am reading them now…
BB
Just for fun….a little trivia. What orders of local universe beings are co-created by 3, rather than 2, “parents”? A hint: one set of offspring are formed by a Local Creator Son and Mother Spirit and a superuniverse being and one set is formed by the Creator Son, Mother Spirit, and one of their offspring.
Also, which order of beings is first co-created by celestials rather than by Diety in the Local Universe?
And which order of beings is the last to be created by the Creator Son and Mother Spirit?
Which order is created only by the Creator Son?
Which is created only by the Mother Spirit?
Bonita, why would the authors use the word fear when words like ‘anticipate’ and ‘suspect’ have been used by them on several occasions throughout the papers? Why make an exception in this instance?
For the same reason the made an exception in this instance:
72:12.2 Just now this superior government is planning to establish ambassadorial relations with the inferior peoples, and for the first time a great religious leader has arisen who advocates the sending of missionaries to these surrounding nations. We fear they are about to make the mistake that so many others have made when they have endeavored to force a superior culture and religion upon other races.
For the same reason the made an exception in this instance:
72:12.2 Just now this superior government is planning to establish ambassadorial relations with the inferior peoples, and for the first time a great religious leader has arisen who advocates the sending of missionaries to these surrounding nations. We fear they are about to make the mistake that so many others have made when they have endeavored to force a superior culture and religion upon other races.
That is a fair response you present. Still it does not necessarily mean they are using it within the context that you are claiming. I could make the argument that this is a literal fear warranted by a dire situation. I guess it is probably just one of those things in TUB that are a toss up. I will hold reservation on concluding this issue. Thanks for your input, Bonita. I honestly appreciate you placing checks and balance where called for, as I have a habit of wondering a bit too far with my innovations on the text.
BB
Just for fun….a little trivia. What orders of local universe beings are co-created by 3, rather than 2, “parents”? A hint: one set of offspring are formed by a Local Creator Son and Mother Spirit and a superuniverse being and one set is formed by the Creator Son, Mother Spirit, and one of their offspring.
Also, which order of beings is first co-created by celestials rather than by Diety in the Local Universe?
And which order of beings is the last to be created by the Creator Son and Mother Spirit?
Which order is created only by the Creator Son?
Which is created only by the Mother Spirit?
Well!! I got me some homework to do!
BB
Papers 32-37 should do it!!Might as well find the second order of beings created by celestials rather than Diety while you’re in there digging! Other than those two orders so co-created by celestials, I know of no others personally….except the children of the Adam and Eve’s and the midwayers but perhaps someone with greater scholarship knows of ANY other celestials created by celestials??
One nice thing about claims, true or false, and tangents is the exercise of research and increased knowledge for personal verifications. Memory fades, so thankful for a text book for fact and claim checking.
which order of beings is first co-created by celestials rather than by Diety in the Local Universe?
I hope this is right: Brilliant Evening Stars.
And which order of beings is the last to be created by the Creator Son and Mother Spirit?
?
Which order is created only by the Creator Son?
Material sons
Which is created only by the Mother Spirit?
Ministering Spirits of the Local Universe
BB
BB you asked what Chris states, he has mentioned exactly what I brought up. The Princes staff had to liaison in order to bring about new beings. These beings cannot create only a creator being can create. Liaison is mixing of energy be it mindal or physical. You cannot liaison someone to death if the word liaison is meant to be some peer influence lol. It obviously means something quite intimate. They even state its a liaison of forces, they are talking about energy. The rebels thought they could disrupt the spiritual energies in another being and kill him/her if they introduced a ton of energy into them. It makes no sense to assume they tried to kill another being through your definition Brad. The princes staff all had large souls (from being mortals) so there was a lot of energy there to use in a liaison. There has to be something literal going on to pro-create a midwayer or any being into existence beings do not appear magically. Mommy and Daddy or sometimes mommy and mommy or whatever combo you can think of have to do something very literal to for a new being to come about. Something of them has to come together in union so that a womb can be formed.
The rebels thought they could disrupt the spiritual energies in another being and kill him/her if they introduced a ton of energy into them.
Would you mind supplying me with the exact reference where Chris says this? I’d like to read or listen to it myself.
The rebels thought they could disrupt the spiritual energies in another being and kill him/her if they introduced a ton of energy into them.
Would you mind supplying me with the exact reference where Chris says this? I’d like to read or listen to it myself.
Sure I will find it.
BB you asked what Chris states, he has mentioned exactly what I brought up. The Princes staff had to liaison in order to bring about new beings. These beings cannot create only a creator being can create. Liaison is mixing of energy be it mindal or physical. You cannot liaison someone to death if the word liaison is meant to be some peer influence lol. It obviously means something quite intimate. They even state its a liaison of forces, they are talking about energy. The rebels thought they could disrupt the spiritual energies in another being and kill him/her if they introduced a ton of energy into them. It makes no sense to assume they tried to kill another being through your definition Brad. The princes staff all had large souls (from being mortals) so there was a lot of energy there to use in a liaison. There has to be something literal going on to pro-create a midwayer or any being into existence beings do not appear magically. Mommy and Daddy or sometimes mommy and mommy or whatever combo you can think of have to do something very literal to for a new being to come about. Something of them has to come together in union so that a womb can be formed.
Scott, I attend Chris’ free webinar on Fridays. But he definitely does not delve deep into info like this. Your explanation is very enticing to say the least! Are you a paid subscriber to his lectures? Is that where he is imparting this kind of info? I am a bit envious of you now
BB
Currently I am re-reading the rebellion papers and came across two statements I am having trouble reconciling. Would like some input if possible. Thanks.
53:5.6 “There was war in heaven … was not a physical battle as such a conflict might be conceived on Urantia… While displaying none of the barbarities so characteristic of physical warfare on the immature worlds, this conflict was far more deadly; material life is in jeopardy in material combat, but the war in heaven was fought in terms of life eternal.” and…
53:6.3 “… I refused to participate in the projected insult to Michael; and the powerful rebels sought my destruction by means of the liaison forces they had arranged. There was a tremendous upheaval on Jerusem, but not a single loyal seraphim was harmed.” What is the nature of this “destruction” and “harm” the second quote refers to if this war in heaven does not exhibit any of the barbarities normally associated with material battle?
Me here: Well I could be wrong, it is not so unusual after all…..But I think “more deadly” and “terms of life eternal” and “sought my destruction” are being misconstrued here. Not a single loyal seraphim was harmed. Not a single one. If there was any potential for harm in any such manner, would not have even one been so harmed?? The danger lies in the choice. Why would celestials believe they could destroy another by an energy force? Ever happened before?
Disloyalty, and the risk of the consequences of a celestial being acting disloyal itself, is that which is “more deadly” in “terms of life eternal” (than “the barabarities normally associated with material battle”) which might have resulted in “my destruction” by the consequences of rebellion and disloyalty. Those who were harmed were those who chose disloyalty. No energy or force required. No demonstrations of power were used. The consequence of choice is the risk described here IMO. Indeed, when Manotia says “sought my destruction”, does she mean by an assault on her being, or by persuading her to make a choice that she knew could result in her destruction (“Jump off the cliff! Jump! Jump!”)…not at the hands, or the dark forces of rebel energy systems, but as the inevitable result of such a choice? Manotia could not be “pushed” off the cliff….only lured and encouraged over the edge of self destruction.
Mortal barbarity never results in eternal consequences. Celestial rebellion and disloyalty can….and did for some. Don’t know about the “big soul” thing Scott. But these were not celestials who cocreate or procreate but one time material mortals of the realm….one of the few exceptions to cocreation. Your claim was that celestials procreate by such liaison as you think is described here, and this is the way the angels and Melchezediks were “assaulted” – a form of rape you called it. Celestials do not co or pro create with very few exceptions, especially so the angels. So, you are confusing me in more than one way on this topic. I don’t think there was a personal assault of any danger nor does the “liaison” have anything at all to do with reproductive capabilities or energy projections. Just not getting it….but some serious reflection is being generated, so I thank you for that.
Bradly, I suspect Scott is referring to possessions of evil spirits. I think Chris has uncovered the intricate details to this phenomenon. Possessions of evil spirits or demonic possession is a real phenomenon. If this is what Chris is referring to then Scott is right, in my view, about these rebel forces being deceived into thinking they could pull off rape. Upon Michael’s ascent to the throne no longer could possessions occur with his release of SoT. Assuming Chris is referring to possession, then the explanation Scott provided on rape makes sense. The word “molest” is used in reference to possessions of evil spirits; evil spirits rape when they possess someone.
3. The possession of evil spirits.
5 Jesus explained to his apostles on several occasions the nature, and something concerning the origin, of these evil spirits, in that day often also called unclean spirits. The Master well knew the difference between the possession of evil spirits and insanity, but the apostles did not. Neither was it possible, in view of their limited knowledge of the early history of Urantia, for Jesus to undertake to make this matter fully understandable. But he many times said to them, alluding to these evil spirits: “They shall no more molest men when I shall have ascended to my Father in heaven, and after I shall have poured out my spirit upon all flesh in those times when the kingdom will come in great power and spiritual glory.”
BB
So then, “liaison” is now become “possession”? Please note the quote you provide BB: “They shall no more molest men …”. So Chris and Scott are saying or meaning to say that celestial minds, specifically angels in this example, are susceptible to “possession” by other angels or by Sons or by any other mind? This is the liaison factor? I look forward to actual text in support of such an assertion. Please recall that even before Pentacost, such an “invasion” was not an invasion nor was it a liaison of multiple personalities in-league or conspiracy. Hmmmm…..something doesn’t smell right here to me in context of the text itself. You say “Chris has uncovered…”. I find this very interesting and not a little troubling as well. I have always found the text quite self-expressive and redundant and clarifying in its words….I don’t believe there are hidden meanings or codes to unravel nor any need for interpretations.
So I remain skeptical to the claims and find the peer pressure for agreement leading to self destruction adequate….not that the peers believed they were wrong as they were convinced I think by their position and were so compelled to convince others as to their rightness….much as we do here I think. I am not entrenched here BB but I remain quite dubious that angels are subject to mind possession and that some conspiracy of “energy” or other personalities can invade the inviolate functionality of self determination and free will. We shall see what Scott and Chris have to say on the subject.
In any case, another very interesting question you have asked requiring both deep thinking and research in response.
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