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Just to touch on one question you had BB. The part about destroying that being with liaison forces is interesting. It would seem that these beings became extremely deluded as a result of joining the rebellion. There is no way for them to destroy a being lol. Only the executioners can do that. Liaison forces are just interfacing energies. Spiritual beings can pro-create through liaison, it’s like spiritual sex. In other words these beings where going to try and rape this being to death.
I understand what TUB is attempting to say here, and from his standpoint he is not that far off the mark, in that when we mortals think about rape, it is a controlling method of defiling not only the celestial body and minds of the victims which in essence takes away the will of the being, to continue as before. Even if the individual can cope with this sort of intrusion, they are marked, as impure and defiled never really the same again, and to some degree dead in their own mind, or wishing to be dead because they have been branded as unclean by their peers, making them an outcast.
I think the point I was making was lost. Liaison is how spiritual being pro-create. The beings who were rebelling were thinking that they could destroy another being through a liaison. The point is, is that they are delusional. A spiritual being cannot die through a liaison enacted by some random spiritual being. Only a executioner can destroy a spiritual being. They wouldn’t have actually succeeded in this liaison molestation. But they had rebelled for so long that would have lost sight of cosmic relationships.
I think the point I was making was lost. Liaison is how spiritual being pro-create. The beings who were rebelling were thinking that they could destroy another being through a liaison. The point is, is that they are delusional. A spiritual being cannot die through a liaison enacted by some random spiritual being. Only a executioner can destroy a spiritual being. They wouldn’t have actually succeeded in this liaison molestation. But they had rebelled for so long that would have lost sight of cosmic relationships.
Hmmmm… very interesting take. I will reread and ponder on what you present. Hey TUB has Chris gone over this particular narrative?
BB
Liaison is how spiritual being pro-create.
A key word search for “liaison” brings forth many quotes for review and consideration of the context for the term. It is far more than “pro-creation” of other beings and few celestials are ever engaged in pro-creation of any other being – angels would be one such class that does not I think. (Personally, I use the Foundation’s search engine and like the way it links directly to the whole text for full contextual review.) Peace.
Of the several dozens of text uses of the word liaison, very very few have anything at all to do with “procreation”. Hope you all take the time to read up on this universal form of communication facilitation; there are many examples from Paradise to mortal/TA. I am particularly intrigued by the “binding and thickening agent” in the definition posted below….there are many quotes related to this form of liaison in the central, super, and local universes.
The “liaison forces arranged” would be a form of peer pressure as I first claimed I think….and not any form of personalized or procreative relationship. Think of today’s rhetoric, deceptive propaganda, the spin doctors, the hype specialists who can apply many forms of pressure on one’s mind to feel guilty, left out, confused, or inspired and enthused by powerful, and formerly trustworthy leaders and peers…misleading being a key concept. There was no attack on the persons or bodies of any creature but immense pressure applied to the minds, all inexperienced in such treachery and deceit over their entire existence….all new territory! In such an environment and reality as this, and knowing the potential consequences of getting it wrong, what drama within might we imagine….we who take deceit and treachery all in a day’s life? Not so for them….go one way and live; go the other and be condemned, and either choice means division and the end of what was without knowing what was then to be. Pretty scary if you ask me.
(504.7) 44:5.3 2. Mind-energy manipulators. These are the experts of intercommunication between morontia and other types of intelligent beings. This form of communication between mortals is practically nonexistent on Urantia. These are the specialists who promote the ability of the ascending morontia beings to communicate with one another, and their work embraces numerous unique adventures in intellect liaison which are far beyond my power to portray to the material mind. These artisans are the keen students of the mind circuits of the Infinite Spirit.
li·ai·son noun \ˈlē-ə-ˌzän, lē-ˈā-, ÷ˈlā-ə-\
: a person who helps organizations or groups to work together and provide information to each other
: a relationship that allows different organizations or groups to work together and provide information to each other
Full Definition of LIAISON
1 : a binding or thickening agent used in cooking
2 a : a close bond or connection : interrelationship
b : an illicit sexual relationship : affair 3a
3 a : communication for establishing and maintaining mutual understanding and cooperation
b : one that establishes and maintains communication for mutual understanding and cooperation
I cannot find a single reference to Lanonandeks being able to procreate and it is stated clearly in 167:7.2 that angels do not procreate. So who are these celestial beings using liaison forces for procreation? I’ll tell you . . . there aren’t any . . . zilch, zip, nada, diddly-squat and bubkas.
Hello Bonita…..yes, I was a little flabbergasted by the claim too. It is true that there are beings created by various forms of divine and celestial pro-creation, indeed all the creatures/beings (but mortals) in the local universes are co-created and there are the midwayers of course so much closer to our own station. The Paper is authored by a Melchizedek but the subject is an angel, one still in service on Urantia. The rebellion was a “Lanonandek rebellion” meaning they were the highest celestial life form infected by disloyalty. So the inference of procreative-relationship does seems off the mark in this regard and on this topic. Simply adds confusion.Bonita – do you think there is fear in celestial or morontial mortal minds? Do you think some may have first tasted this mind poison during this struggle? I think we now have 5 mind sets illustrated….those who were immediately loyal, those who took time to resolve their minds correctly and loyally, those who were immediately disloyal (often by loyalty to superiors), those who were persuaded into disloyalty, (many of the latter two later to repent and receive forgiveness), and those who remained disloyal with minds too twisted to retreat from this place. So many different paths to experience. Such a tragedy to partake in no matter what the outcome. So sad.
Bradly wrote: Bonita – do you think there is fear in celestial or morontial mortal minds?Fear is a human emotion. Not even the angels understand it. (113:2.5)
But I wonder if you think fear exists beyond the mortal planets of birth and if any of these celestials knew or know of fear? And perhaps you can offer a different analogous term for comparison to the feelings the celestials may have had while in the grip of this uncertainty and confusion? Peace.I do not believe celestial beings experience animal fear, as they do not have the biology humans have which induces it. But they do experience some kind of trepidation or fear based on their own physiology, I would think. Take a look at the following:35:4.5 The Melchizedek who lived on Urantia during the time of Abraham was locally known as Prince of Salem because he presided over a small colony of truth seekers residing at a place called Salem. He volunteered to incarnate in the likeness of mortal flesh and did so with the approval of the Melchizedek receivers of the planet, who feared that the light of life would become extinguished during that period of increasing spiritual darkness. And he did foster the truth of his day and safely pass it on to Abraham and his associates.BB
I think you are right BB….but angels, Lanonandeks, and most all celestials do neither of those. With few exceptions (Material Sons and Daughters and the Prince’s staff do both co-create the primary and secondary midwayers for example), creation of celestial beings is a co-creative function of Diety, not by celestials themselves (or the ones so created). The term in question is liaison which has many other definitions besides a sexual tryst or illicit affair…..and those other definitions more closely approach the intended meaning in the text you posted. So I think it relevant to abandon the notion of any form of sexual or physiological interpretation.
Thanks Bonita…I agree. I’m interested in your take on the form of “fear” BB found in text. I think it is a term of probability expectation, not a personalized dread or anxiety but the word chosen to describe it is “fear”. Interesting.
Bradly wrote: I’m interested in your take on the form of “fear” BB found in text.The word fear has more than one meaning. In the quote BB offered, the word feared simply means suspected, had a feeling or was inclined to think that something would happen. It is similar to the use of the word feared in the phrase, I feared you might be right. It’s a bit old fashioned. Both that phrase and the phrase from BB’s quote could be rewritten as follows:
I suspected you might be right. I had a feeling you might be right. I’m inclined to think you might be right.
. . . who suspected that the light of life would become extinguished . . . . who had a feeling that the light of life would become extinguished. . . . who were inclined to think that the light of life would become extinguished.
The type of fear that only humans suffer from freezes thought, enslaves the mind, binds the personality and paralyzes free will. Animals live in constant fear, a tool of necessity used for survival. Natural fear, built into the genome, is inevitable and essential. But the spirit is supposed to dominate man’s mind and free it from animal fear by replacing it with love. This does not mean that fear is gone in those who live the spiritual life; it means that fear is conquered and controlled by a higher reason and it no longer enslaves.
I think you are right BB….but angels, Lanonandeks, and most all celestials do neither of those. With few exceptions (Material Sons and Daughters and the Prince’s staff do both co-create the primary and secondary midwayers for example), creation of celestial beings is a co-creative function of Diety, not by celestials themselves (or the ones so created). The term in question is liaison which has many other definitions besides a sexual tryst or illicit affair…..and those other definitions more closely approach the intended meaning in the text you posted. So I think it relevant to abandon the notion of any form of sexual or physiological interpretation. Thanks Bonita…I agree. I’m interested in your take on the form of “fear” BB found in text. I think it is a term of probability expectation, not a personalized dread or anxiety but the word chosen to describe it is “fear”. Interesting.
Are there any references that state celestials of the orders in question cannot cocreate?
BB
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