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Is somebody really worried about being turned to ash, instantly?
this thread is more about worried minds imho
That’s why I find the title of this thread far worse than sensationalism and attention seeking and fear mongering….it’s hysteria on ‘roids and worthy of only the lowest of motives and intentions.
Hey, tread lightly there. Don’t forget the poison pen letter I got 2.5 years ago when I questioned BB’s motives for starting a thread. I wanted to know what was behind his question, he refused to say, and apparently it’s wrong to even ask. So don’t go there. Don’t question the motives and intentions . . . taboo.
But something or someone besides wisdom and common sense has prevented total nuclear destruction so far.
I think it is wisdom and common sense. I believe true leaders are capable of rising to the occasion. Adjusters are the secret of advancing civilization (109:4.4) and I believe that “the gods” may pay a role in assuring that the best and most appropriate leaders are in place when needed. Less than 1% of the population is qualified to lead, and those who are qualified presumably have experienced Adjusters . . . just my assumption.
81.6.42 Leadership is vital to progress. Wisdom, insight, and foresight are indispensable to the endurance of nations. Civilization is never really jeopardized until able leadership begins to vanish. And the quantity of such wise leadership has never exceeded one per cent of the population.
Is somebody really worried about being turned to ash, instantly?
Nah, wouldn’t that be a fusion flash? I would dig that!
Thanks for the warning Bonita. Is questioning motives and intentions…”personal”? Or topical? Hmmmmm…… I wonder if the discernment of motivation always important? BB recently referred us to an awesome website and tool for creative thinking and critical analysis of written words…the point and purpose of which teaching is to discern the motive and intention and perspective of the authors of any written work. Indeed, the motives of the authors of the UB seem to come under constant suspicion and attack by some posters here so if motive and intention is off limits then….we have a problem Houston!!!
Well said (or asked) Gene!! If one believes we are cherished children in a friendly universe in the hand of God’s purpose, plan, and power, the answer is of course “NO!”….Fear Not! But even here we find those whose fears, doubts, disbelief, and dark perspective gives voice to endless suspicions and anxieties. Most unfortunate indeed. Jesus said this world is but a bridge, think not to build a home upon it.
100:2.6 (1096.3) The goal of human self-realization should be spiritual, not material. The only realities worth striving for are divine, spiritual, and eternal. Mortal man is entitled to the enjoyment of physical pleasures and to the satisfaction of human affections; he is benefited by loyalty to human associations and temporal institutions; but these are not the eternal foundations upon which to build the immortal personality which must transcend space, vanquish time, and achieve the eternal destiny of divine perfection and finaliter service.
100:2.7 (1096.4) Jesus portrayed the profound surety of the God-knowing mortal when he said: “To a God-knowing kingdom believer, what does it matter if all things earthly crash?” Temporal securities are vulnerable, but spiritual sureties are impregnable. When the flood tides of human adversity, selfishness, cruelty, hate, malice, and jealousy beat about the mortal soul, you may rest in the assurance that there is one inner bastion, the citadel of the spirit, which is absolutely unassailable; at least this is true of every human being who has dedicated the keeping of his soul to the indwelling spirit of the eternal God.
100:2.8 (1096.5) After such spiritual attainment, whether secured by gradual growth or specific crisis, there occurs a new orientation of personality as well as the development of a new standard of values. Such spirit-born individuals are so remotivated in life that they can calmly stand by while their fondest ambitions perish and their keenest hopes crash; they positively know that such catastrophes are but the redirecting cataclysms which wreck one’s temporal creations preliminary to the rearing of the more noble and enduring realities of a new and more sublime level of universe attainment.
Is questioning motives and intentions…”personal”? Or topical?
Well . . . I always thought that, “Love is only born of thoroughgoing understanding of your neighbor’s motives and sentiments.” (100:4.6)
If we’re not allowed to question motives and sentiments, is there another way to get a thoroughgoing understanding of people on this forum? Certainly people take it personally when you question motives, but I think it’s a defense mechanism . . . like taking your ball and going home to whine to mommy that there’s a bully on the ball field. Hard to understand, but it’s the lay of the land here. Beware. Feelings seem to be more important than information. We live in delicate times. I say, ignore the motives. Share your wisdom and fahgettaboutit.
If, “Civilization is never really jeopardized until able leadership begins to vanish.” (81:6.42), can we assume that as long as there are able leaders, civilization is not in jeopardy? If so, what is the definition of able leadership? Do we have able leadership in this world today? Or is it vanishing? Personally, I think able leadership is currently being redefined, which is a good thing. Maintaining the status quo is not always a sign of able leadership. I think it’s a sign of a great manipulator rather than a great leader.
Where does morality come into the equation of a great leader? And is it mob morality or a higher morality that is most important? I believe that a good leader is able to hold onto higher moral standards, despite mob pressure, and by doing so, is able to expose a higher duty and make it palatable. Of course this is unsettling, and those who are unsettled will often rattle their weapons or scream the sky is falling. ‘Tis human nature.
I think this reference pertains to the topic.
16:9.5 Civilizations are unstable because they are not cosmic; they are not innate in the individuals of the races. They must be nurtured by the combined contributions of the constitutive factors of man — science, morality, and religion. Civilizations come and go, but science, morality, and religion always survive the crash.Science, morality and religion are constitutive factors in us – in those people who are not obliterated by a catastrophic physical event on our world. Where there is life, there is hope.If, “Civilization is never really jeopardized until able leadership begins to vanish.” (81:6.42), can we assume that as long as there are able leaders, civilization is not in jeopardy? If so, what is the definition of able leadership? Do we have able leadership in this world today? Or is it vanishing? Personally, I think able leadership is currently being redefined, which is a good thing. Maintaining the status quo is not always a sign of able leadership. I think it’s a sign of a great manipulator rather than a great leader. Where does morality come into the equation of a great leader? And is it mob morality or a higher morality that is most important? I believe that a good leader is able to hold onto higher moral standards, despite mob pressure, and by doing so, is able to expose a higher duty and make it palatable. Of course this is unsettling, and those who are unsettled will often rattle their weapons or scream the sky is falling. ‘Tis human nature.
a true leader needs to dump the useless ideaology BS and foster human “ideals” -otherwise society will continue to be in the “Simon the zealot” mode and we will continue to deteriorate as a civilization.
this requires real religion, a sense of morality that can cope with social change and steer it in a value oriented direction. Put together fact meaning and value, get past the evolved religions that only offer safety and comfort and escape from change.
i mean – really – a secular society is not necessarily bad or evil, just devoid of spirit.
Any leaders like this out there today? Or they all silver tongued politicians that promise what we want to hear only?
paper 99 really helps with this.
Well, if only 1% of the population are true leaders, I doubt even 1% of that 1% are in politics. I think most politicians are drawn from the 99% non-leadership group. Charisma and leadership are not the same thing. But looking at history, I think you only need one really good leader during a time of crisis to do the trick. Maybe these true leaders only come to the fore under severe crises.
You are not guaranteed to know that you are on the Mansion world if that reality cannot be forced on you, Bradly. There is no revelation unless someone can show me otherwise, that says you must or will accept this fact of death survival. Are people required to accept “facts” in the here-and-now? Answer: No. So what makes one think that the Mansion world operates any differently? You say the distinctions are enormous as if one would actually remember the earthly landscapes after passing over into the afterlife to contrast and compare the two worlds. Sleeping survivors when awaken cannot even carry the memory of mundane life events to the mansion world; they have no memory of it! Those historical events must be rehearsed to them. Yet one is expected to make distinctions? I don’t think so. You have to accept this fact that you passed away from Urantia and are now on the Mansion world. But like I said, this requires acceptance on your part and you are free to reject it.…I am still pondering on the belief vs. disbelief short discussion I had with Bonita.And the title of this so-called topic appears to be attention seeking. As BB admits: “I am guilty of the sensationalized headline. I accept that. But if you read the content you’d see that the headline grossly misrepresents the content.” Hopefully, a little reflection might tone down the rhetorical declarations and move toward the desire to learn rather than insert fear and anxiety or simply grab attention….and the “headline” may more clearly represent the “content”. Sensationalism reveals motive and agenda. The fact is every world, once deemed inhabited, has a certain inevitable outcome….Light and Life…without fail or exception. And no, in such an emergency re-location, we do not go to a mansion world, and yes, we will know when we are on a mansion world….the distinctions are enormous and they are many and we will notice them to be sure!
BB
What in the world are you talking about? I never said that we would go to the Mansion world in such event! Please, go reread the original reply. It was a statement made in response to another statement.I have no idea what BB is talking about, but I’m pretty sure that dematerialization of the salvable population to a ” . . . new world prepared for their continuing existence . . .” (51:2.3), would NOT be a mansion world. Dematerialization, as far as I understand it, does not remove a person’s material (adjutant) memory as happens with death and resurrection.
BB
You are not guaranteed to know that you are on the Mansion world if that reality cannot be forced on you, Bradly. There is no revelation unless someone can show me otherwise, that says you must or will accept this fact of death survival. Are people required to accept “facts” in the here-and-now? Answer: No. So what makes one think that the Mansion world operates any differently? You say the distinctions are enormous as if one would actually remember the earthly landscapes after passing over into the afterlife to contrast and compare the two worlds. Sleeping survivors when awaken cannot even carry the memory of mundane life events to the mansion world; they have no memory of it! Those historical events must be rehearsed to them. Yet one is expected to make distinctions? I don’t think so. You have to accept this fact that you passed away from Urantia and are now on the Mansion world. But like I said, this requires acceptance on your part and you are free to reject it.
Hi BB. I know you are discussing this with with Bonita in particular (I think), but I’d like to add something. The way I understand it, people with a mere “flicker of faith” eventually go to the Mansion worlds. You are right that people are free to reject the ascension plan at any time, either here or over there. Faith-sons, those people with more than a faint flicker of faith, will rejoice to meet their earthly companions and to become truly conscious of the identity and presence of their Thought Adjuster.
113:7.1 It is indeed an epoch in the career of an ascending mortal, this first awakening on the shores of the mansion world; there, for the first time, actually to see your long-loved and ever-present angelic companions of earth days; there also to become truly conscious of the identity and presence of the divine Monitor who so long indwelt your mind on earth. Such an experience constitutes a glorious awakening, a real resurrection.Personally, I look forward to forgetting many details of my earth career.
Human experience is also part of Adjuster experience. As long as the Adjuster is present, worthwhile mortal memory patterns are intact. Anything in our current mortal and material memory that has value will be IMMEDIATELY available to us because the Adjuster makes a counterpart (40:9.7). The only memories that have to rehearsed are those without value. But, it is the Adjuster who decides what has value and what doesn’t. Sometimes there is value in remembering how we arrived at an erroneous idea for moto teaching on the mansion worlds. Moto isn’t instilled into thin air, it is evolved from what we’ve already experienced. Therefore, undoubtedly there will be many memories that survive, if for no other reason than to make us laugh at ourselves (morontia mirth) when we realize how ridiculous they were. Reversion therapy includes memories of combat, struggle, fear and anxiety (48:4.5), I suppose some memories might need to be rehearsed, but others may not because they have value, especially if they ultimately resulted in growth of character.
Memory is not the same as character. The character we bring to the mansion worlds reflects our experiences with true meanings and values and survives as the soul. But memory is something different, it belongs to the Adjuster. Once the Adjuster re-indwells the soul on the mansion world, memory of one’s character is instantaneous. The memory patterns and formulas are present in the soul, but the factor which activates specific memories belongs to the Adjuster (112:6.8).
There are other kinds of memories which certainly persist as well because memory involves not only the result (the soul) but the process. Those patterns of learning, experience, growing and progressing are valuable; they are peppered with images of our mistakes and their corrections. That is why I think there is value in remembering mistakes, otherwise it would be hard to be of service to others climbing the ascension ladder at a lower level, which is something we are told is expected of us throughout our career. I also think there is value in remembering, not only our mistakes, but all of the struggles, effort and work that went into achieving success. Not only does this refresh the mind, but these are things that can be shared with others for their benefit.
Furthermore, if we start our intellectual and spiritual training exactly where we left off on earth, without gaining a single thing, there must be something of our previous intellect available (47:3.1). If we were in the middle of learning something of value at the time of death, obviously that memory would have to be carried over in order for it to continue where it left off. We are told that only our purely animalistic memories perish with the physical brain. It’s fair to ask, what are those purely animalistic memories composed of? It seems if you’ve arrived at the 3rd circle or higher, you don’t have a lot of those purely animalistic thoughts any longer (110:6.20), so almost everything in the mind would be fodder for mansion world memory.
I also think we will awaken with deep memories of experiences with our Creator Son, as explained in quote 6:8.7. Any interaction with him in our souls will remain as a personal experience, and since it is of value, the memory of that experience survives forever. All of our personality relationships, be they material or spiritual, will be immediately remembered, because they have cosmic value (112:5.22). We are told to train our memories to hold onto all the worthwhile episodes in our lives, but the very best memories to hold onto are the recollections of great moments in a superb friendship (160:4.12). How many of us have superb friendships? Every time I read that quote, I think how important friends are, how truly valuable human fellowship really is and how lightly we consider it.
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