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The difficulty you have is that the discussion itself is futile because you cannot confirm or deny their claim. Best to just let it go and let us all draw our own conclusions, if any.
Angela, I’m not having any difficulty here. It seems that you are having difficulty since you’re very upset about everything I say. No one else is upset by it. If they are, they’re keeping it to themselves. In fact, you’re the only one here, so far, who believes in midwayer emails.
And yes, it is best for everyone to draw their own conclusions, but the discussion is not futile. It’s a very important discussion. And you’ve made that abundantly clear with your comments.
Yes we can confirm or deny their claim. All they have to do is allow someone to investigate the electronic trail. It’s easy to do, any kid can do it. If it came from the blinking lights in the sky, then there will be no trail. Incidentally, are you saying that you have telepathic communication with the lights? Are you by any chance one of the 11:11’ers? Just curious. They get channeled midwayer messages via email all the time and there are a few Angelas who post there.
I have to say I have not been so entertained on a Friday afternoon by a Urantia thread in a long time! Bonita, your posts here are awesome, thank you for articulating common sense and right thinking. Bradly, thank you for your patient and gentle nudging toward a reasonable response to Julian’s question.
I have to say that I find this post by Angela concerning
Bradly, good question. My personal view is that we are all teachers and students in our infinite journey inward. I believe that the teaching role is an essential aspect of growth. So the designation applies when any celestial entity responds to a request and engages in the process of passing on their personal take on things from a position of authority. Once we emerged from our spiritual ‘quarantine’ this assistance became available.
and I am so glad that Bonita responded appropriately to it. Others have also brought up the excellent points that this epochal revelation has only been available for a very short time! I understand the desire for things to move more quickly, but remember progression occurs by evolution, not revolution.
tas wrote: I think the early history of The Urantia Book is instructive about how Sadler especially didn’t take the phenomena of its genesis at face value or default to credulous belief in it, but instead he investigated for two decades and exhausted all possible ways he could envision it being delusion or fraud before he gradually came around to his own acceptance about the book. The emails haven’t gone through anywhere near that degree of skepticism of course. The thing is, people want to believe in this sort of stuff, so they do. It seems more or less a benign thing in this case, however it can easily morph into them becoming influenced by what’s really a not-so-spiritually-fragrant and wrong headed source.That’s exactly right tas. The communications coming through the sleeping subject were objectively analyzed, witnessed by multiple individuals over a long period of time and consistent. All attempts to prove that the information was coming from the subconscious of the sleeping subject failed. The process took a long enough time to allow for critical investigation, exploration and scrutiny of the process. It was entirely open for humans to do their research. The midwayer emails under discussion are not open for this type of inquiry at all, and that alone makes them suspect. Feigned mystery is a hallmark of human mischief.
Yes, people want to believe this stuff because it bypasses the hard work necessary to contact spiritual influences within one’s own soul. It’s a whole lot easier to get a package in the mail with all the answers than to do the homework and internal study necessary to find it yourself. Then, there’s the bonus of the package coming with authority, which gives the receiver the right to browbeat and shame those who do not accept the authority.
We know that humans are weak; we know they are myth makers; we know that they crave magic and miracles. Does this fact mean that we should sit back and allow these attitudes to flourish? Is it right, to do like some do, blame it all on the rebellion and the default and claim it’s impossible to overcome? I, for one, cannot do that. Although these human traits are real, it doesn’t mean that I have to succumb to them. My lower human nature does not rule me, I do not embrace weakness, laziness, myths, magic and miracles. I know, particularly due to TUB, that I have the ability to rise above these things and embrace a higher character that does not rely on such things. And since I know for a fact that this is true in my own experience, I cannot sit back and allow others to succumb to these fallacies without at least an attempt to open minds to other options.
Bradly and Keryn, I can’t thank you enough for your support. It means so much to me. In the past, by this time I could expect to get a nasty email from Mod 2 for being irritating. The fact that you see my motive as legitimate is a much appreciated blessing. Thank you, thank you.
Gee! I hope they’re reading this. I hope they know that we UB readers are concerned about truth. I hope they come here and share their special messages with the rest of us so we can decide (judge) for ourselves if we think they are real or not. Let us use our cosmic mind responses and the Spirit of Truth to evaluate them for ourselves. That is the way of the universe, is it not? Each person listens, thinks, and decides. That is why Lucifer was allowed to present his arguments for 200,000 years, so everyone could decide for themselves.
How is it that “you” place your thoughts as though everyone should think the way “you” do? Why is it that “you” include all by the use of the words “we” and “us” as though “you” know what everyone should decide for themselves? By these statements “you” decide “(judge)” for others what they should think or believe, why? Because “you” believe that they are wrong, and should believe as “you”?
Please do not tell me what I believe or should believe, because there are many ways which Jesus allowed the Gospel to be taught.
(2075.2) 195:4.4 Christianity exhibits a history of having originated out of the unintended transformation of the religion of Jesus into a religion about Jesus. It further presents the history of having experienced Hellenization, paganization, secularization, institutionalization, intellectual deterioration, spiritual decadence, moral hibernation, threatened extinction, later rejuvenation, fragmentation, and more recent relative rehabilitation. Such a pedigree is indicative of inherent vitality and the possession of vast recuperative resources. And this same Christianity is now present in the civilized world of Occidental peoples and stands face to face with a struggle for existence which is even more ominous than those eventful crises which have characterized its past battles for dominance.
(2075.3) 195:4.5 Religion is now confronted by the challenge of a new age of scientific minds and materialistic tendencies. In this gigantic struggle between the secular and the spiritual, the religion of Jesus will eventually triumph.
When someone takes everything which someone else believes based on what they have experienced and tares it apart as though it is wrong and untrue, makes me believe that those who decide what others should think is a wish to dominate because they are superior to others and that the Spirit of Truth speaks only to themselves. Remember, judge not, lest ye be judged. Are these who wish to dominate over others teachers, or oppressors of the truth?
(1658.1) 148:1.2 Each of the apostolic teachers taught his own view of the gospel of the kingdom. They made no effort to teach just alike; there was no standardized or dogmatic formulation of theologic doctrines. Though they all taught the same truth, each apostle presented his own personal interpretation of the Master’s teaching. And Jesus upheld this presentation of the diversity of personal experience in the things of the kingdom, unfailingly harmonizing and co-ordinating these many and divergent views of the gospel at his weekly question hours. Notwithstanding this great degree of personal liberty in matters of teaching, Simon Peter tended to dominate the theology of the school of evangelists. Next to Peter, James Zebedee exerted the greatest personal influence.
. . . people want to believe this stuff . . . .
You can count me in on appreciating your remarks, Bonita. And I appreciate what others have said too, and including Angela.
Thank you for sharing, Angela. I admire your courage to support your point of view and your tenacity in standing up for what you believe. From reading you on this forum, you come across to me as a smart, reasonable and articulate person. I’m smart, reasonable and articulate too. I was attracted to personalities and ideas presented to a few of us at the time in a the newly organizing “religious” group (cult) setting up shop in a town nearby. It was exciting. The ideas were appealing and reasonable. Mentally, it was attractive. I did not look for fault. It was “metaphysical”. It was very different from traditional church. Already I had passed through a period of interest in Eastern religions. I would like to stress how mentally attractive were this group of people and the ideas they came up with. Looking in retrospect I brainwashed myself. I’m the one to take credit or blame for getting involved in the first place, because I wanted to believe this stuff.
(864.6) 77:8.5 The United Midwayers of Urantia are organized for service with the planetary seraphim in accordance with innate endowments and acquired skills, in the following groups:
(864.7) 77:8.6 1. Midway messengers. This group bear names; they are a small corps and are of great assistance on an evolutionary world in the service of quick and reliable personal communication.
(864.8) 77:8.7 2. Planetary sentinels. Midwayers are the guardians, the sentinels, of the worlds of space. They perform the important duties of observers for all the numerous phenomena and types of communication which are of import to the supernatural beings of the realm. They patrol the invisible spirit realm of the planet.
(865.1) 77:8.8 3. Contact personalities. In the contacts made with the mortal beings of the material worlds, such as with the subject through whom these communications were transmitted, the midway creatures are always employed. They are an essential factor in such liaisons of the spiritual and the material levels.
(865.2) 77:8.9 4. Progress helpers. These are the more spiritual of the midway creatures, and they are distributed as assistants to the various orders of seraphim who function in special groups on the planet.
In reference to number three above “Contact personalities” it can be surmised that “these communications” is in reference to the UB where it is noted that a “subject through whom” it was presented, indicates the method used for communication. Therefore, we can assume that there is truth to how the UB was originally presented?
Since there are two general types of Midwayer’s, primary and secondary, their interaction with humans is different and has a purpose where it is allowed?
(865.3) 77:8.10 Midwayers vary greatly in their abilities to make contact with the seraphim above and with their human cousins below. It is exceedingly difficult, for instance, for the primary midwayers to make direct contact with material agencies. They are considerably nearer the angelic type of being and are therefore usually assigned to working with, and ministering to, the spiritual forces resident on the planet. They act as companions and guides for celestial visitors and student sojourners, whereas the secondary creatures are almost exclusively attached to the ministry of the material beings of the realm.
(865.4) 77:8.11 The 1,111 loyal secondary midwayers are engaged in important missions on earth. As compared with their primary associates, they are decidedly material. They exist just outside the range of mortal vision and possess sufficient latitude of adaptation to make, at will, physical contact with what humans call “material things.” These unique creatures have certain definite powers over the things of time and space, not excepting the beasts of the realm.
The secondary midwayers where at one time prior to Pentecost also split into different loyalties where those who followed their own will, were considered as demons, and could effect the actions of humans. But, after Pentecost, only those who followed the planetary administration where allowed to function directly with humans, as the others were interned.
This by itself would indicate that the current secondary midwayers interact with humans as is prescribed by the current authority and if it was deemed necessary to affect a certain project or plan, be it for one or a group of individuals, it could be noted that they, the secondary midwayers could function as was described in this topic.
(865.5) 77:8.12 Many of the more literal phenomena ascribed to angels have been performed by the secondary midway creatures. When the early teachers of the gospel of Jesus were thrown into prison by the ignorant religious leaders of that day, an actual “angel of the Lord” “by night opened the prison doors and brought them forth.” But in the case of Peter’s deliverance after the killing of James by Herod’s order, it was a secondary midwayer who performed the work ascribed to an angel.
(865.6) 77:8.13 Their chief work today is that of unperceived personal-liaison associates of those men and women who constitute the planetary reserve corps of destiny. It was the work of this secondary group, ably seconded by certain of the primary corps, that brought about the co-ordination of personalities and circumstances on Urantia which finally induced the planetary celestial supervisors to initiate those petitions that resulted in the granting of the mandates making possible the series of revelations of which this presentation is a part. But it should be made clear that the midway creatures are not involved in the sordid performances taking place under the general designation of “spiritualism.” The midwayers at present on Urantia, all of whom are of honorable standing, are not connected with the phenomena of so-called “mediumship”; and they do not, ordinarily, permit humans to witness their sometimes necessary physical activities or other contacts with the material world, as they are perceived by human senses.
It could also be noted that these secondary midwayers are more similar to humans as would be imagined, where over time, even though not directly mentioned in the UB, they could have evolved beyond that which has been described. We can also see that these midwayers could procreate among themselves, whereby what other combinations would have been effected to date? Could there now be additional hybrids living among us?
6. The Secondary Midwayers
(862.5) 77:6.1 While the primary midwayers had a well-nigh superhuman origin, the secondary order are the offspring of the pure Adamic stock united with a humanized descendant of ancestors common to the parentage of the senior corps.
(862.6) 77:6.2 Among the children of Adamson there were just sixteen of the peculiar progenitors of the secondary midwayers. These unique children were equally divided as regards sex, and each couple was capable of producing a secondary midwayer every seventy days by a combined technique of sex and nonsex liaison. And such a phenomenon was never possible on earth before that time, nor has it ever occurred since.
(862.7) 77:6.3 These sixteen children lived and died (except for their peculiarities) as mortals of the realm, but their electrically energized offspring live on and on, not being subject to the limitations of mortal flesh.
Keeping in mind that prior to Pentecost these secondary midwayers could posses mortal minds and it is noted that these disloyal midwayers are no longer present, it does not invalidate the ability for the current secondary midwayers from being able to posses a mortals mind, if it was mandated by the current authority? Just because the will to posses was taken away from those midwayers who did not follow the rules, does not mean that it is impossible for them to do so now, should it be necessary? Also, could they be used to help those humans who would otherwise need help or adjusting, to show them a better way?
(863.6) 77:7.5 On no world can evil spirits possess any mortal mind subsequent to the life of a Paradise bestowal Son. But before the days of Christ Michael on Urantia — before the universal coming of the Thought Adjusters and the pouring out of the Master’s spirit upon all flesh — these rebel midwayers were actually able to influence the minds of certain inferior mortals and somewhat to control their actions. This was accomplished in much the same way as the loyal midway creatures function when they serve as efficient contact guardians of the human minds of the Urantia reserve corps of destiny at those times when the Adjuster is, in effect, detached from the personality during a season of contact with superhuman intelligences.
(863.7) 77:7.6 It is no mere figure of speech when the record states: “And they brought to Him all sorts of sick people, those who were possessed by devils and those who were lunatics.” Jesus knew and recognized the difference between insanity and demoniacal possession, although these states were greatly confused in the minds of those who lived in his day and generation. *
(863.8) 77:7.7 Even prior to Pentecost no rebel spirit could dominate a normal human mind, and since that day even the weak minds of inferior mortals are free from such possibilities. The supposed casting out of devils since the arrival of the Spirit of Truth has been a matter of confounding a belief in demoniacal possession with hysteria, insanity, and feeble-mindedness. But just because Michael’s bestowal has forever liberated all human minds on Urantia from the possibility of demoniacal possession, do not imagine that such was not a reality in former ages.
So based on what can be assessed from the UB, nothing should be considered as impossible, even if it is not probable.
Mara wrote: You can count me in on appreciating your remarks, Bonita.I’m grateful for your support Mara.
We all want to believe something; it’s built into our DNA. People who deny the urge to believe in something are living a hell on earth, of their own choosing. The problem is paradoxical though. We have an insatiable need to believe, yet we lag in the ability to discern what is appropriate to believe in. We are given so many mind ministry helpers, it’s almost ridiculous, yet so many flounder, directionless in the wind, grasping onto anything that seems believable. I’m not sure how to help, but I wish I could.
The odds are that all of us will believe in something erroneous at some point in our lives. But, we should be gaining wisdom, learning and admitting error, getting up and moving on, trying again. I love TUB because it is the most valuable aid I know of that can be used to hone in on what is worth believing in, and like Bradly, I am a fundamentalist in that regard. I use it as a filter to keep my focus on what is worthwhile and not all the pretty, shiny things that flit by constantly trying to get my attention.
There are several historical things that come to mind that I want to share. Mediumship, which is a form of channeling, has been around forever. In recent history, it became very popular after WWI. So many men were lost in that war and their families were denied their bodies. In fact, due to the horrors of trench warfare, it was often impossible to even identify a grave. Bodies were everywhere and left to the elements or placed in shallow unmarked graves. The grief was agonizing, the pall on human spirit so depressing and dehumanizing, a truly dark period. Families were desperate to have some contact with the deceased and grabbed any opportunity to do so. Unscrupulous persons claiming supernatural ability to commune with the dead sprouted up everywhere. Spiritualists, mediums and necromancers became rich and famous. It was immediately following this era that the sleeping subject came on the scene. It’s not a coincidence. Today is much different than when TUB had its origins. The incentives for contacting the supernatural world has changed, but it still exists and always will.
Need to get supper on. More later, I hope.
midi – why do you accuse Bonita so? She has told no one what to think or believe….WE discuss the UB here and our experiences regarding the pursuit of truth, beauty, and goodness related thereto. Perhaps you might offer something from text which is on topic? That is regarding those who minister to mind/soul and your experience with those who claim contact with celestials by email or otherwise.
Claims offered to the light of scrutiny and discussion are subjected to consideration and comparison to that which we study here together and our experiences with similar claims experienced.
Your personalized attack does not contribute to the issue or the discussion. Something believed is not something true merely because it is believed. I feel very deeply for those who come to believe something is true simply because they want it to be or because someone is engineering a fraud and deception upon them. The power of the priesthood to maneuver and manipulate sincere truth seekers and believers is not something to accept….or support. Silence is a form of acceptance.
As to your point of “judge not”, I’d suggest a key word search of the UB for both “judge” and “judgment”, as we are actually commanded to judge much and to be keen with discernment and wise in our perception of reality and truth. Those without judgment and discernment are foolish, gullible, immature, etc…..or perfect sheep for the wolves amongst us. Or so we are taught and so I think.
Just read your second post Midi…very topical. Thank you. The UB clearly describes the origination of midwayers and I’d appreciate anything you could post which might provide for “new hybrids” of these beings which are certainly not unique to Urantia.
There is much documentation as to the origin of the Papers for review for those who are interested. It is interesting to note however, that if one believes what the UB says for itself, it is but the fifth of 5 epochal revelations in our planetary history and was quite an enterprise for many different celestials in addition to the midwayers – a very extra-ordinary and not at all an ordinary phenomena/methodology…and certainly not a short term venture/ministry/gift. Now if one does not believe the claims made by the authors, then one might believe in anything, including alien abductions and unicorns!!!! But why would they also believe in midwayers I wonder?
And certainly…not everything is possible and much is impossible indeed! Or, I should say…according to the UB.
This reply has been reported for inappropriate content.
Bradly wrote: Just read your second post Midi…very topical. Thank you. The UB clearly describes the origination of midwayers and I’d appreciate anything you could post which might provide for “new hybrids” of these beings which are certainly not unique to Urantia.Thanks Bradly. Thanks again for your support and for pointing out ‘s poppycock. The midwayers do not procreate. They have to make up for the lack of reproduction capability by spending time with the Material Sons and Daughters once they obtain ascension status.
45:6.5 The ascending midway creatures and the evolutionary seraphim must pass through this parenthood experience in association with the Material Sons and Daughters of the system headquarters. Thus do such nonreproducing ascenders obtain the experience of parenthood by assisting the Jerusem Adams and Eves in rearing and training their progeny.
I think you’re confusing faith and belief. The group believes they’re being contacted by midwayers. Their belief is not the same as faith.
It’s actually the other way around. People without emails from celestials are the ones acting on faith; they’re the agondonters. They aren’t privy to superhuman inside information and only have faith to guide them. Receiving superhuman information means you’re no longer acting on faith but on facts, data, which makes it belief.
101:8.1 The acceptance of a teaching as true is not faith; that is mere belief.
Have another look at the quote you have used here. Does it really support your argument that their faith in the source is mere belief?
No, all this quote says is that acceptance in the content of the teachings is mere belief. I am not confused at all. This group have tremendous faith in the source of the emails and that — all by itself — is a beautiful thing. I believe that may make them Agondonters.
I don’t believe any miracle is engaged in the appearance of emails. They appear in my inbox with great frequency and they do not surprise me at all. I do not receive any emails from celestial sources – but that is just me.
Angela, I’m not having any difficulty here. It seems that you are having difficulty since you’re very upset about everything I say. No one else is upset by it. If they are, they’re keeping it to themselves. In fact, you’re the only one here, so far, who believes in midwayer emails.
Bonita – I am not upset really, just disappointed with the initial way judgment was passed. And trying to inject some balance into the discussion. You attribute to me words that I have not written. I have not said that I am convinced that these emails are real. My response is far more balanced than that. I have said all along that we are not in a position to judge the circumstances as the truth cannot be known. I have not drawn any conclusions about the practice of this group at all. The only conclusions being drawn are by yourselves — those that reject the possibility. I merely suggest that conclusion cannot be drawn as it is possible that they are on the up and up.
I think there is value in this discussion, yes. I don’t sense any argument that we have midwayers among us. I sense the only stumble here is the mode of contact, the use of the internet. That confuses me. It seems that anyone sharing in confidence that they have communicated with Celestial Teachers is greeted with suspicion, when, in fact, this is accepted by all as the means for our receipt of the Urantia Book. Putting aside past experiences, why would you not take that shared experience at face value without attributing to them all this false motive stuff. Why tarnish them with the same brush as the others? Shouldn’t each shared experience be considered in isolation?
The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)
Each and every person is fully encircuited by the spirits of the Mother, Father, and Son – and none of those are distinguishable from another; and that no agent, person, spirit, or entity may engage the mind of an ascender by any means or method other than through this spirit ministry, including our personal guardian angels – all of whose sole intent, purpose, and priority is the personal spiritual upliftment through the psychic circles of each mortal born.
Bradly you wrote the previous narration and I’m wondering if the UB text which follows also applies?
(2097.2) 196:3.34 The great challenge to modern man is to achieve better communication with the divine Monitor that dwells within the human mind. Man’s greatest adventure in the flesh consists in the well-balanced and sane effort to advance the borders of self-consciousness out through the dim realms of embryonic soul-consciousness in a wholehearted effort to reach the borderland of spirit-consciousness — contact with the divine presence. Such an experience constitutes God-consciousness, an experience mightily confirmative of the pre-existent truth of the religious experience of knowing God. Such spirit-consciousness is the equivalent of the knowledge of the actuality of sonship with God. Otherwise, the assurance of sonship is the experience of faith.
Now I’m aware of the other warnings presented in UB text, where caution should be taken, but if the UB indicates that the above is modern man’s challenge to “achieve better communication with the divine Monitor that dwells within”, how does one distinguish between that which is to be cautioned against?
You also presented the following which I have segregated to make it a little more readable, and I’m not sure if these are quotes or not:
….the bard once said that the difference between tragedy and comedy is simply time and distance. Some of us have had many decades of study and encounters (direct and personal) with those who claim to be
1) receiving messages from gods, spirits, celestials, etc.;
2) called for the continuation/completion of the UB, the fifth of 5 epochal (please consider the term and meaning of that word) revelations to the whole planet – one well known party is working on E5, Part II, over 4,000 pages of the “new” revelation (very loosely based on terminologies and personalities in the original UB);
3) recruiting Reservists (like themselves) who are able to “receive and transmit” messages, news, warnings, instructions, etc. from universe rulers – especially regarding the adjudication of the rebellion and the crowning of a new system sovereign and planetary prince, etc. (a review of “reservists” is recommended to identify the self importance and lack of humility required to proclaim oneself such – yet many do so);
4) able to identify special “indigo children” blessed by an infusion of violet Adamic blood (by angel or alien insemination depending on the group);
5) receiving universe broadcasts on behalf of the planet;
6) and there are plenty of similar claims made over the decades, many of which have attracted the weak minded and/or inexperienced readers who had the misconception that the UB was received by such techniques (this is a falsehood), thereby lending false credibility to these claims which are in direct contradiction to the Urantia Papers inaccurately touted as the “source” for their authorities and claims of power.
In number, 1); being that our “divine Monitor” represents God within use, and assuming that many who may think that they can communicate with this Monitor, as noted above, or at least think they can receive communications from this entity, might not be able to distinguish exactly who is presenting the communication, therefore the possible different thoughts about who is conveying a message.
As for number 2); we really don’t know if this is possible, at this time, and certainly might not be probable? But there is one who has written at least two volumes which are considered as a continuation to the UB, (Gabriel of Urantia) which I have read, and could not really determine if this material could be considered valid, even though it had some text which I myself had thought about upon my understanding and reading of the current UB, nevertheless interesting. Therefore, until one actually reads such material, whether believed or not, should it be taken with a grain of salt, as you elude too.
As to number 3); I am currently active on such a forum which professes to be receiving such communications, where for the most part, has been pre-qualified by the presenter as being a place where those individuals who believe they can “receive and transmit” can present their material. For the most part, one can think that this is an outlet for those who might otherwise have a delusion or valid thinking of their abilities to do so, would otherwise be preoccupied elsewhere doing, who knows what. Nevertheless, some so called messages, seem to be very common, others may have more substance then one can arbitrarily discard as delusion. For the most part, these folks are looking for some social commonality and with the exception of predicting impending disasters, etc., which has been with us for some time, I can see no real harm, other than to register their true personalities as they believe it to be. As I read many of those posts, on can really get an understanding as to what their adjuster would need to work on.
As to number 4); It would seem that from the UB itself we are all an amalgamation of one colored race or another which had been implanted here on Urantia, so until DNA testing can go back far enough, to identify whether the information presented in the UB is accurate, we may all be considered as some kind of hybrid?
Number 5); is getting a little, out there, but then as this topic indicates who really knows how our minds can be affected by those celestials or those Midwayers, for that mater.
As for number 6); I must indicate that this is considered on my part as opinion on your part, where there is information presented within the UB which can be understood or deciphered as being questionable based on interpretation. Nevertheless, when one seems to force their own opinion upon others, which is one thing, and then seems to present this opinion as a judgment as to whether someone is sound of mind or not would place them into the same category as those who thought Jesus as being beyond Himself. Where I ask those who proclaim abnormality of others to define normal, in detail, and then begin to examine themselves as to that definition.
For it is one thing to indicates that it says to the reader what can be understood by that reader but, how can anyone say that a Book or narration does not say something, unless they first really understand what the authors intended to be presented. Therefore, it is up to every reader to decide for themselves without someone browbeating their own beliefs as being the only truth.
midi – why do you accuse Bonita so? She has told no one what to think or believe….WE discuss the UB here and our experiences regarding the pursuit of truth, beauty, and goodness related thereto. Perhaps you might offer something from text which is on topic? That is regarding those who minister to mind/soul and your experience with those who claim contact with celestials by email or otherwise.
Bradly, I’m not accusing Bonita of telling anyone what to think, per say, I have in the past indicated that when one uses these words which are inclusive of all other individuals indicates that they are stating their opinion as being those of others as well. Since I am a part of the others, and I cannot agree with that or those opinions, I prefer to be excluded from those, where I can speck for myself. I know that Bonita is an intelligent person and knowledgeable regarding many subjects, but over a period of time her presentations as well as yours, become too direct and I believe that if this is of concern, one should mention that concern.
Regarding on topic material, were you not one to have presented a large presentation on Rodan’s contribution in the UB? Where the following is a presentation regarding “communication” and more specifically with God.
(1783.5) 161:1.3 This contention greatly troubled Thomas and Nathaniel, and they had asked Jesus to come to their rescue, but the Master refused to enter into their discussions. He did say to Thomas: “It matters little what idea of the Father you may entertain as long as you are spiritually acquainted with the ideal of his infinite and eternal nature.”
(1784.1) 161:1.4 Thomas contended that God does communicate with man, and therefore that the Father is a person, even within the definition of Rodan. This the Greek rejected on the ground that God does not reveal himself personally; that he is still a mystery. Then Nathaniel appealed to his own personal experience with God, and that Rodan allowed, affirming that he had recently had similar experiences, but these experiences, he contended, proved only the reality of God, not his personality.
(1784.2) 161:1.5 By Monday night Thomas gave up. But by Tuesday night Nathaniel had won Rodan to believe in the personality of the Father, and he effected this change in the Greek’s views by the following steps of reasoning:
(1784.3) 161:1.6 1. The Father in Paradise does enjoy equality of communication with at least two other beings who are fully equal to himself and wholly like himself — the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit. In view of the doctrine of the Trinity, the Greek was compelled to concede the personality possibility of the Universal Father. (It was the later consideration of these discussions which led to the enlarged conception of the Trinity in the minds of the twelve apostles. Of course, it was the general belief that Jesus was the Eternal Son.)
(1784.4) 161:1.7 2. Since Jesus was equal with the Father, and since this Son had achieved the manifestation of personality to his earth children, such a phenomenon constituted proof of the fact, and demonstration of the possibility, of the possession of personality by all three of the Godheads and forever settled the question regarding the ability of God to communicate with man and the possibility of man’s communicating with God.
(1784.5) 161:1.8 3. That Jesus was on terms of mutual association and perfect communication with man; that Jesus was the Son of God. That the relation of Son and Father presupposes equality of communication and mutuality of sympathetic understanding; that Jesus and the Father were one. That Jesus maintained at one and the same time understanding communication with both God and man, and that, since both God and man comprehended the meaning of the symbols of Jesus’ communication, both God and man possessed the attributes of personality in so far as the requirements of the ability of intercommunication were concerned. That the personality of Jesus demonstrated the personality of God, while it proved conclusively the presence of God in man. That two things which are related to the same thing are related to each other.
(1784.6) 161:1.9 4. That personality represents man’s highest concept of human reality and divine values; that God also represents man’s highest concept of divine reality and infinite values; therefore, that God must be a divine and infinite personality, a personality in reality although infinitely and eternally transcending man’s concept and definition of personality, but nevertheless always and universally a personality.
(1784.7) 161:1.10 5. That God must be a personality since he is the Creator of all personality and the destiny of all personality. Rodan had been tremendously influenced by the teaching of Jesus, “Be you therefore perfect, even as your Father in heaven is perfect.”
(1784.8) 161:1.11 When Rodan heard these arguments, he said: “I am convinced. I will confess God as a person if you will permit me to qualify my confession of such a belief by attaching to the meaning of personality a group of extended values, such as superhuman, transcendent, supreme, infinite, eternal, final, and universal. I am now convinced that, while God must be infinitely more than a personality, he cannot be anything less. I am satisfied to end the argument and to accept Jesus as the personal revelation of the Father and the satisfaction of all unsatisfied factors in logic, reason, and philosophy.”
And certainly…not everything is possible and much is impossible indeed! Or, I should say…according to the UB.
Okay, then I must ask, do you believe that time can be manipulated, where it can be controlled by celestials in order to manipulate matter and in some cases communication throughout the universe?
Just read your second post Midi…very topical. Thank you. The UB clearly describes the origination of midwayers and I’d appreciate anything you could post which might provide for “new hybrids” of these beings which are certainly not unique to Urantia.
Okay, I’ll give you that there is no direct narration which allows for a “new hybrid” regarding secondary midwayer’s but then there are many UB quotes which can be interpreted as being an opening for such creatures.
(349.5) 31:6.2 The midway creatures from various universes differ greatly in origin and nature, but they are all destined to one or another of the Paradise finality corps. The secondary midwayers are all eventually Adjuster fused and are mustered into the mortal corps. Many finaliter companies have one of these glorified beings in their group.
(424.4) 38:9.4 2. Secondary Midwayers, the more material group of these creatures, vary greatly in numbers on the different worlds, though the average is around fifty thousand. They are variously derived from the planetary biologic uplifters, the Adams and Eves, or from their immediate progeny. There are no less than twenty-four diverse techniques involved in the production of these secondary midway creatures on the evolutionary worlds of space. The mode of origin for this group on Urantia was unusual and extraordinary.
(424.5) 38:9.5 Neither of these groups is an evolutionary accident; both are essential features in the predetermined plans of the universe architects, and their appearance on the evolving worlds at the opportune juncture is in accordance with the original designs and developmental plans of the supervising Life Carriers.
(424.7) 38:9.7 Secondary midwayers are physically energized by the Adamic technique, spiritually encircuited by the seraphic, and intellectually endowed with the morontia transition type of mind. They are divided into four physical types, seven orders spiritually, and twelve levels of intellectual response to the joint ministry of the last two adjutant spirits and the morontia mind. These diversities determine their differential of activity and of planetary assignment.
If the secondary midwayers can be adjuster fused and inducted into the mortal corp. then are they material beings and if so could they have different sexualities?
(425.1) 38:9.9 The gap between the material and spiritual worlds is perfectly bridged by the serial association of mortal man, secondary midwayer, primary midwayer, morontia cherubim, mid-phase cherubim, and seraphim. In the personal experience of an individual mortal these diverse levels are undoubtedly more or less unified and made personally meaningful by the unobserved and mysterious operations of the divine Thought Adjuster.
(861.1) 77:5.1 Having delineated the Nodite antecedents of the ancestry of the secondary midwayers, this narrative should now give consideration to the Adamic half of their ancestry, for the secondary midwayers are also the grandchildren of Adamson, the first-born of the violet race of Urantia.
(862.5) 77:6.1 While the primary midwayers had a well-nigh superhuman origin, the secondary order are the offspring of the pure Adamic stock united with a humanized descendant of ancestors common to the parentage of the senior corps.
Bradly and MidiChlorian — This quote relates to question 3 above.
114:7.9 (1258.1) On many worlds the better adapted secondary midway creatures are able to attain varying degrees of contact with the Thought Adjusters of certain favorably constituted mortals through the skillful penetration of the minds of the latters’ indwelling. (And it was by just such a fortuitous combination of cosmic adjustments that these revelations were materialized in the English language on Urantia.) Such potential contact mortals of the evolutionary worlds are mobilized in the numerous reserve corps, and it is, to a certain extent, through these small groups of forward-looking personalities that spiritual civilization is advanced and the Most Highs are able to rule in the kingdoms of men. The men and women of these reserve corps of destiny thus have various degrees of contact with their Adjusters through the intervening ministry of the midway creatures;
The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)
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