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We are not able to know truth in such circumstances. You can apply existing knowledge and make deductions, but the best we can hope for is suspicion which places both the suspicioness and the suspicionee in a less than pleasant position.What is the reaction if a member of the group read the disparaging comments on this forum? What possible benefit to you or to them in making those comments? If no benefit wouldn’t the Urantia Book propose that you hold your tongue?
One assumption that strikes me is the view that the emails appear by supernatural means. We cannot “know” the source of the emails. It may be that select Celestial Teachers are in morontial form in craft at a distance. Is the internet a gift to our society delivered through revelation? Or is it something they can easily master? This goes directly to Julian’s question. To my mind, the internet is an ideal process for dissemination of Jesus’ teachings and a great way to test faith. If protocols are maintained through this connection, I can see why this may be a preferred means of introducing an ongoing exchange. I can see how protocols could be maintained through only conveying present knowledge. But I have to admit to speculation in respect of all of the above.
You might wish to argue “What is the motive for that exchange, if no new revelation or knowledge is given?” But we are not in a position to question that either. It may be that the only objective at this time is affirmation and reward for the admirable faith held by the recipients. This faith is by itself a beautiful thing. Is it ‘right thinking’ to mock it? What is said in the Urantia Book about the desire to identify ‘agondonters’? I will have to look that up.
Truth is reached through sincere reflection and a desire to do goodness, to be Godlike. Is truth reached through this process of judgment you have employed here? That is for each to reflect upon.
The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)
Angela – you have mentioned “Celestial Teachers” a couple of times now. I am wondering to what or whom you are referring? The 3 Spirits within and the Guardian Angels work together for personal ministry. My understanding is that all other celestials are more engaged or exclusively engaged in “planetary” ministries, not personal ministry.
There is an experience I can share that may help, if you accept my sincerity. I know I am among friends so feel free to mock and roll about on the floor in laughter. I can take it.
Here goes. I live in a rural location and the stars can shine quite brilliantly at night here. I often go for walks in the paddock at night purely for the joy of viewing them. But about 6 years ago I noticed there were stars that appeared to be oblong in shape, quite clearly shining in a distinct sequence of colours at one corner. The colours were always blue, green, red. Then 2 years ago after much reflection and a desire to make sense of this, I was compelled to ask one shining oblong orb low on the horizon to “please move up”. I asked in reverence and in the belief that they are not stars but craft. Within 10 minutes that flashing body had risen from the horizon to a position high over-head. I was awe-struck, but entirely convinced by the experience. I have since attempted a repeat and the phrase came to mind “Only one per customer”.
I have asked friends about their impressions of colour and most see this also. The reactions differ from mine, as some disagree with the explanation I believe. Others agree with the presence of craft, but do not place the same significance on it or choose to put it out of their mind when it comes to its application in our lives.
My reason for sharing is to offer one perspective on faith. We each have a unique experience with faith that has infinite value to the Supreme Being. I view this experience as part of my faith journey. Now who is to say whether or not craft out there choose to offer instruction to a select few believers by way of the internet?
The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)
Bradly, good question. My personal view is that we are all teachers and students in our infinite journey inward. I believe that the teaching role is an essential aspect of growth. So the designation applies when any celestial entity responds to a request and engages in the process of passing on their personal take on things from a position of authority. Once we emerged from our spiritual ‘quarantine’ this assistance became available.
The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)
Thank you for sharing your experience. As a student of the UB and as we attend a UB study group here together, I think it would be helpful to explore this gift of fact and truth for those agents of personal ministry contrasted with those engaged in planetary ministry. I am unaware of any references in text of celestial “teachers” but would welcome a discussion and exploration of those who may fit such a description.
This is the rub….the UB is quite specific about these two distinct ministries – in and to mind and those whose tasks are otherwise.
So, please….to whom are you referring as “teachers”?
By the way, a study of midwayers would suggest that they do not thusly function in any form of personal ministry.
No one is laughing at anyone…but the claims of some are thoroughly debunked with dire warnings of inherent “dangers” in the inherent capacity for mortal mind to self deceive. Such claims require a large dose of salt and no little skepticism based on my understanding of the teachings given of how things work and who does what and how in personal ministry of circle achievement and potential fusion.
I’d appreciate all others’ contributions here too related to the UB’s presentations of mind and planetary ministries. These claims will always be with us….as a community of students and student/teachers, we need to develop appropriate responses to such claims as those Julian has presented here. Thanks!!
By the way, I’m pretty sure we can discover the source of any and all emails…..just sayin’.
Angela wrote: We are not able to know truth in such circumstances.Yes we are able to know truth. Jesus said that we are to know truth and it will set us free, which is why he sent his Spirit of Truth. You can hide from the truth, but I do not. I embrace it.
141:7.6 Jesus laid great emphasis upon what he called the two truths of first import in the teachings of the kingdom, and they are: the attainment of salvation by faith, and faith alone, associated with the revolutionary teaching of the attainment of human liberty through the sincere recognition of truth, “You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” Jesus was the truth made manifest in the flesh, and he promised to send his Spirit of Truth into the hearts of all his children after his return to the Father in heaven.
Angela wrote: You can apply existing knowledge and make deductions, but the best we can hope for is suspicion which places both the suspicioness and the suspicionee in a less than pleasant position.Actually not. We can do our homework. We can research and explore. It is not suspicion in a malevolent fashion, it is a matter of uncovering the truth. Our goal in life is to recognize reality. We are supposed to question the reality of everything. We actually have a duty to utilize the cosmic mind and its recognition responses in order to discover what is real and what is unreal. That’s why God gave us a mind. Those who put their heads in the sand and bury their one talent will have to pay the price at some point. And that is an unpleasant position to be in.
Angela wrote: What is the reaction if a member of the group read the disparaging comments on this forum?Gee! I hope they’re reading this. I hope they know that we UB readers are concerned about truth. I hope they come here and share their special messages with the rest of us so we can decide (judge) for ourselves if we think they are real or not. Let us use our cosmic mind responses and the Spirit of Truth to evaluate them for ourselves. That is the way of the universe, is it not? Each person listens, thinks, and decides. That is why Lucifer was allowed to present his arguments for 200,000 years, so everyone could decide for themselves.
Angela wrote: What possible benefit to you or to them in making those comments? If no benefit wouldn’t the Urantia Book propose that you hold your tongue?Benefit? I’ll tell you that there is a lot of benefit to saying something when you see something. A lot of damage was done by a certain member of this community who claimed superhuman contact, and if someone had spoken up, it may not have happened. People were afraid to question superhuman authority and they paid the price. I think it’s high time that people with moral courage speak up. I think the enablers should hold their tongues. We all know that enabling is immoral.
Angela wrote: One assumption that strikes me is the view that the emails appear by supernatural means. We cannot “know” the source of the emails.We certainly can know. It only takes one person with technical skills to uncover the electronic source of the emails. They are coming from someone’s computer and that is traceable. It just takes moral courage for someone to do it. Or better yet, the group receiving them should allow such an investigation. If there is no foul play, they should be completely open to the idea.
Angela wrote: It may be that select Celestial Teachers are in morontial form in craft at a distance.Whoa Nelly! A craft? Really? Earth to Angela! Get a grip girl! Midwayers are born in morontial form and they don’t need a craft to travel in since they can travel twice the speed of light, nor can they leave the planet!
23:3.2 The worlds teem with angels and men and other highly personal beings, but they are handicapped by time and space: The limit of velocity for most nonenseraphimed beings is 186,280 miles of your world per second of your time; the midway creatures and certain others can, often do, attain double velocity – 372,560 miles per second – while the seraphim and others can traverse space at triple velocity, about 558,840 miles per second.
77:9.4 Although their ability to traverse the energy circuits makes planetary departure feasible to any midwayer, they have individually pledged themselves not to leave the planet prior to their sometime release by the universe authorities. Midwayers are anchored on a planet until the ages of settled light and life. With the exception of 1-2 -3 the first, no loyal midway creatures have ever departed from Urantia.
Angela wrote: Is the internet a gift to our society delivered through revelation?No, it was invented by Al Gore, just ask him, he’ll tell you all about it. Personally, I don’t think the internet is a divine gift. Humans earned the knowledge and applied it. Otherwise it wouldn’t be here. I believe in evolution.
Angela wrote: To my mind, the internet is an ideal process for dissemination of Jesus’ teachings and a great way to test faith.How exactly does the internet test faith? To test faith means to tempt one’s loyalty to God. The internet cannot do that. The internet is inanimate. Are you suggesting there is something magical about the internet that can make people deny God against their will? Do you believe in zombies too? Angela, you’re not making a lot of sense with this comment.
Angela wrote: You might wish to argue “What is the motive for that exchange, if no new revelation or knowledge is given?”No, that’s not it at all. Revelation has nothing to do with it. It’s about the abuse of the superhuman level of reality for personal gain. It’s about delusion. It’s about embracing unreality, twisting it all around and presenting it as reality. It’s about screwing with people’s minds. It’s about morality Angela. Morality! Ask Mara about the immorality of duplicity when it comes to false claims of supernatural contact. She knows what kind of damage it can do to human lives. One could bring a lawsuit, just sayin’.
Angela wrote: But we are not in a position to question that either.It is our position to question everything, including God. We ask, and we receive; we look and we find. We are told to be as wise as serpents, to make discerning judgments concerning reality everyday. Questioning is what the human mind does best. Progress requires questioning minds. Those who bury their heads in the sand with their one talent are not doing the world one bit of good.
Angela wrote: This faith is by itself a beautiful thing. Is it ‘right thinking’ to mock it?No one is mocking faith. No one, including me, is disparaging any particular person or group of persons. What is being disparaged and questioned here is a claim to the validity of midwayer emails. Why you turn that into a personal assault is beyond me. Julian does that too, I have the emails to prove it. When you question an idea on this forum it does not mean that you are condemning or ridiculing a person, just their ideas. Attempting to uncover the motive is actually an act of compassion, an attempt to understand the reason for a ridiculous idea. And, the idea of supernatural midwayer email is ridiculous; I think most of us seem to agree on that. None of us are saying that the group receiving the emails are ridiculous, just their claim of superhuman emails. Get it?
Angela wrote: Truth is reached through sincere reflection and a desire to do goodness, to be Godlike. Is truth reached through this process of judgment you have employed here? That is for each to reflect upon.Attempting to discover the truth concerning supernatural midwayer emails is Godlike. Are they real? Reality is Godlike. Are they unreal? Unreality is the antithesis of Godlike. One thing is for sure. If they are unreal, they will not last long in this universe. But what we are all concerned about here is the repercussions of evil that we will all have to bear as a result. Evil is the opposite of truth. If the emails are not true, they are evil and something needs to be done about it. We have a right to discover the truth about these things. Not only a right, but a duty. Duty is the level of morality. We have a moral duty to make sure people are not led astray by falsehood and deceit. You should know that!
16:6.7 2. Duty — the reality domain of morals in the philosophic realm, the arena of reason, the recognition of relative right and wrong. This is the judicial form of the cosmic discrimination.
16:9.11 2. The quest for moral values, the sense of duty.
79:8.14 4. Development of a strong sense of duty, the enhancement of morality, and the augmentation of ethical sensitivity.
Angela wrote: Once we emerged from our spiritual ‘quarantine’ this assistance became available.What? Is that special information given to you by superhuman means? Did your so-called teachers tell you exactly when we emerged from spiritual quarantine? Angela, you are wandering down a very crooked road with this one. We’re still quarantined and don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.
28:7.4 We are denied the full privilege of using these angels of the reflective order on Urantia. They are frequent visitors on your world, accompanying assigned personalities, but here they cannot freely function. This sphere is still under partial spiritual quarantine, and some of the circuits essential to their services are not here at present. When your world is once more restored to the reflective circuits concerned, much of the work of interplanetary and interuniverse communication will be greatly simplified and expedited. Celestial workers on Urantia encounter many difficulties because of this functional curtailment of their reflective associates. But we go on joyfully conducting our affairs with the instrumentalities at hand, notwithstanding our local deprivation of many of the services of these marvelous beings, the living mirrors of space and the presence projectors of time.
Angela wrote: So the designation applies when any celestial entity responds to a request and engages in the process of passing on their personal take on things from a position of authority.Sorry, forgot to include this in the last post. This is exactly what I’m talking about. Celestial communication also puts the receiver a position of authority. This is a powerful motivator, the power of authority.For example, if I should tell you that Jesus came to me this morning and informed me that midwayers don’t live in spacecrafts, you’d have to accept that as authoritative information because Jesus said so. It gives me power in the argument since my information comes from a higher source and you cannot prove otherwise. And according to your words, to question me would make you suspicious, and being suspicious is wrong. You would be questioning my faith, and that would be wrong. So I win! Hooray! I got da powah!Bradly – Here is just one example of planetary supervision being achieved through human means. I suspect (only a suspicion) one of the ‘projects’ promoted was the internet.
114:6.19 (1256.9) The master seraphim of planetary supervision utilize many agencies for the prosecution of their missions. They function as ideational clearinghouses, mind focalizers, and project promoters. While unable to inject new and higher conceptions into human minds, they often act to intensify some higher ideal which has already appeared within a human intellect.
The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)
Good one!! Let’s keep digging. By the way….there’s lots of celestial teachers from the Mansion Worlds all the way to Paradise, so what we’re looking for are any and all agents/celestials/spirits/etc. which contact mortal mind on planet of birth.
114:6.19 (1256.9) The master seraphim of planetary supervision utilize many agencies for the prosecution of their missions. They function as ideational clearinghouses, mind focalizers, and project promoters. While unable to inject new and higher conceptions into human minds, they often act to intensify some higher ideal which has already appeared within a human intellect.
The important part of this quote is the fact that the higher ideal already appeared in human intellect. The human mind earned the knowledge all on its own. But, but, but. . . . and this is important . . . . ideals are not scientific data. Those are facts. Facts led to the invention of the internet, not ideals. Ideals are spiritual.
Bradly wrote: . . . so what we’re looking for are any and all agents/celestials/spirits/etc. which contact mortal mind on planet of birth.It would be helpful to remind people that the secondary midwayers only utilize the 6th and 7th adjutants and the primary midwayers have absolutely no adjutant contact at all. Also, we know that rebel midwayers could only influence and control inferior minds. Since Pentecost, midwayers are not only completely unable to do that, but they are unwilling. We also know that midwayers assist in the deep mind training of reservists by providing “special preparation”. What special preparation is involved is beyond our ability to comprehend, I’m sure. And I’m also sure that whatever it is, the mind is not violated in any way, but stabilized in such a way that allows the Adjuster to do his work.
114:7.8 These mortal reservists are chosen by the corps to which they are respectively attached and are likewise trained and rehearsed in the deep mind by the combined technique of Thought Adjuster and seraphic guardian ministry. Many times numerous other celestial personalities participate in this unconscious training, and in all this special preparation the midwayers perform valuable and indispensable services.
Just to be clear, I support Bonita’s points substantially. We are to judge and discern and be as wise as serpents as well as innocent as doves, a difficult challenge. We are not to ignore nor blindly accept the claims of other religionists or any other party – we must learn to discern motives and agendas and inference and consequence, etc. by use of reason, logic, experience, wisdom, insight, etc.
I would also suggest that we’re all a bunch of funny monkeys in our own peculiar (let’s call it unique) ways….for that reason, we are instructed not to take ourselves too seriously….we all need a little reversion therapy as disagreement arises – none of us is exactly “right” in our perspective.
I will finish this post by saying that on all the forums I attend, I am known as a “fundamentalist” (and not in any friendly way either); which seems to be defined simply as this: I allow the UB to speak for itself and I can declare unequivocally that the UB says what it says and does not say what it does not say…..pretty simple and hardly “fundamentalist” IMO but I’ll wear that brand if needed anytime.
Angela wrote: This faith is by itself a beautiful thing. Is it ‘right thinking’ to mock it? What is said in the Urantia Book about the desire to identify ‘agondonters’? I will have to look that up.I think you’re confusing faith and belief. The group believes they’re being contacted by midwayers. Their belief is not the same as faith.
It’s actually the other way around. People without emails from celestials are the ones acting on faith; they’re the agondonters. They aren’t privy to superhuman inside information and only have faith to guide them. Receiving superhuman information means you’re no longer acting on faith but on facts, data, which makes it belief.
101:8.1 The acceptance of a teaching as true is not faith; that is mere belief.
I think the early history of The Urantia Book is instructive about how Sadler especially didn’t take the phenomena of its genesis at face value or default to credulous belief in it, but instead he investigated for two decades and exhausted all possible ways he could envision it being delusion or fraud before he gradually came around to his own acceptance about the book. The emails haven’t gone through anywhere near that degree of skepticism of course. The thing is, people want to believe in this sort of stuff, so they do. It seems more or less a benign thing in this case, however it can easily morph into them becoming influenced by what’s really a not-so-spiritually-fragrant and wrong headed source.
After the UB phenomena had been going on for a decade or more already, Dr. Sadler, still skeptical, wrote the book “Mind at Mischief” about all the ways people deceive both themselves and others about mystical claims, and in the appendix alluded to the UB only as one he hadn’t yet figured out. The assumption about the emails should of course be that they are the mind at mischief, and just be curious to see how people affect themselves with these sorts of things. It wouldn’t surprise me if the person writing the emails to the group has convinced themselves their source of the material, as the words flow from their fingertips, really are celestial teachers. That the Urantia Book exists doesn’t make it more likely the emails are really from a supernatural source, but it’s just another way that a mind at mischief can convince itself of that, by hitching onto parts of the UB’s model of the universe for rationalization.
Bonita – Is this really a search for truth? The suspicions you hold are not spiritual truth. I would not call this fact or knowledge either.
132:3.2(1459.2)Truth cannot be defined with words, only by living. Truth is always more than knowledge. Knowledge pertains to things observed, but truth transcends such purely material levels in that it consorts with wisdom and embraces such imponderables as human experience, even spiritual and living realities. Knowledge originates in science; wisdom, in true philosophy; truth, in the religious experience of spiritual living. Knowledge deals with facts; wisdom, with relationships; truth, with reality values.
The difficulty you have is that the discussion itself is futile because you cannot confirm or deny their claim. Best to just let it go and let us all draw our own conclusions, if any.
The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)
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