-
Posts
-
The delivery of the Urantia book by whatever means resulted in a substantial text that sincere readers feel is indeed a true revelation.
it would follow in my opinion that if there were super human contact with an individual there would be a specific reason and for the individual there would be no question of the contact and its meaning and purpose
i also believe the spirit of truth would be functioning.
For any believer that the event was devulged to there would be something very believable about it.
how does Julian feel about it?
just my thoughts.
Who was that guy from the old forum who kept yammering about the end of the word . . . Menno, was that it? He saw midwayers all the time. He told me that the U.S. was going to have some horrible crisis in 2015 and that I am a reservist and would be called upon to do something extraordinary. I’m still waiting for the crisis and the call. I guess I’m really not all that special either. I wish these people would take their meds.
I’m not sure if you are referring to the same person who I remember, or if you had any private communications with the aforementioned person, but I did. So far those things which he presented, at least for me, have come true. But then I communicated with him by Email and actually read all of his documentation that he presented. Nevertheless, everyone has a different take on specific things, where some documentation presented, even those things presented in the UB, can be specific to individuals as they read what might be considered as controversial. I would suggest that you keep specific names to yourself because unless you can verify these things verbatim with documentation to show just usage, it would be of no value to identify someone who cannot defend them self, here and now.
I don’t know about the Email thing but I guess that anything is possible. . . .
One thing I can assert with conviction. Each person has to decide for himself about these so-called contacts. In former days I belonged to a religious cult and no one could budge me from giving it up. I had to find out for myself. Everyone involved in these wierdo practices sooner or later will be honest with themselves and wonder how they got sucked in the first place. Now, if a person is into it, no one can disaffect him. And the reason no one can disaffect him is because he/she is only listening to him/herself. I know this. I’ve experienced it. I was hugely proud of my ability, my imagined power over others. I wanted this ability. I wanted this power. I was self-inflated. My ego was fed. I felt important, special. What a delusion!
Midi, I disagree that anything is possible. For one thing Jesus didn’t do it. He was constantly communing with our heavenly Father. Didn’t he show us the way? Wasn’t his life a demonstration of living in the presence of God fully and completely by consecrating his whole self to doing God’s will? He was always going to the hills roundabout to pray and commune with God. When he wasn’t doing that, he was continuously ministering to the Apostles and the people. He didn’t tell his Apostles to go out and get a so-called “teacher”, once he ascended to our Father. No. He said:
180:4:5 “My little children, I am going away, going back to my Father. In a little while you will not see me as you do here, as flesh and blood. In a very short time I am going to send you my spirit, just like me except for this material body. This new teacher is the Spirit of Truth who will live with each one of you, in your hearts, and so will all the children of light be made one and be drawn toward one another. And in this very manner will my Father and I be able to live in the souls of each one of you and also in the hearts of all other men who love us and make that love real in their experiences by loving one another, even as I am now loving you.”What other kind of teacher do you need?????I thought I’d give my thoughts on this subject.
Let’s use some logic for a minute. It has been less than a century sence the Urantia Book has been in the public eye. It has not had time to do any major work as the other revelations have. As for the other revelations, each one has been literally thousands of years apart. Each revelation has had enough time to influence some people at various levels of society. The Urantia Book has not had such time or opportunity to have such influence as the other revelations. Why would the revelators give us more than the Urantia Book when we, both as individuals and as a society, have not fully utilized The Urantia Book?
Think about it for a minute. For the past 2000 years Christianity, wich preserved the teachings of Jesus as best as was possible under the circumstances, has for good or ill, influenced literally every level of society. Why should we expect a new revelation when we have not been able to achieve as much with The Urantia Book? It is my opinion that we will not get any more revelation until we have gotten every bit of use out of The Urantia Book that we can. This means that we need to not only study the UB as deeply as possible, but that we must also live the UB as deeply as possible as well. We must let it permeate every aspect of our lives and beings. Those who are serious Christians have done the exact same thing with the light that they had through the years, even though we know that some of what they thought was wrong based on what the UB teaches us. Are we willing to do the same thing as they did? Are we willing to in essence, “eat, sleep, and breathe” the UB as serious Christians did, and still do, with the Bible? Only if we as UB readers can get to that point will we see more revelation… not from “higher beings” but from the UB itself. When we have been able to influence society to the same extent that Christianity has, when we have been able to maximize the use of the Urantia Book in our lives as well as in our society, in other words, when we are ready, we will be given more revelation outside of the pages of the UB… but not until then. And in my opinion, (based on the amount of time between each revelation) we will not be ready for centuries at least.
As for my thoughts on so called “revelation” I think that at some level all channelers seek acclaim and popularity. All who are serious students of the UB, seek nothing for themselves, but instead choose to seek the kingdom of God. They know that if they do so, then all else will follow.
As for students of those channelers, they want the excitement of something new. They want the feeling that they are special. They want a shortcut. The followers of the so called Urantia book channelers would rather follow someone than read and live the Urantia Book as I suggested above. Those who choose to follow so called channelers are not serious students of the Urantia Book. If they were, they would not follow them.
Midi, I disagree that anything is possible. For one thing Jesus didn’t do it. He was constantly communing with our heavenly Father. Didn’t he show us the way? Wasn’t his life a demonstration of living in the presence of God fully and completely by consecrating his whole self to doing God’s will? He was always going to the hills roundabout to pray and commune with God. When he wasn’t doing that, he was continuously ministering to the Apostles and the people. He didn’t tell his Apostles to go out and get a so-called “teacher”, once he ascended to our Father. No. He said:
Mara, I’m not sure what your implication is above? Where, “with God all things are possible.” And, you state, “Jesus ddn’t do it.” Where I ask, didn’t do what? So if you could explain your reasoning a little more, it would help me understand. Something that is impossible today may be possible tomorrow, and because we do not understand something, does not mean that it is not truth elsewhere? Therefore, what to you, is not possible?
I really appreciate all your comments. I would like to respond but I’m at work at the moment. I’ll be in touch soon.
Julian
What other kind of teacher do you need?????
Mara, I am assuming here that you are suggesting we only need Jesus’ teachings. But we only have to go as far as the authors of the 196 Papers to see that the number of Celestial Teachers available to us exceeds our material comprehension.
The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)
Didn’t Julian say that the people who are receiving the emails from midwayers are getting messages which only concern their group ministry? What is this group ministry he is referring to? Are they trying to form a church or a religion of some kind? Celestial communication is exactly what you need when trying to build a religion and attract followers. It’s a common thread in many religions (think Joseph Smith and the Mormons, Paul and the Gentile Church).
Julian said that the emails do not contain revelatory material, only instructions on how to improve their ministry, or presumably their church. Since the emails are going to a group, it has to be for social reasons, not individual spiritual reasons. I’m not sure midwayers get involved in social affairs. I’m willing to guess that these people think that the Urantia community is going down the wrong path by not organizing a church and therefore the midwayers have to intervene in order to do what they think the Urantia Book demands, which is organize a religion/church. Mysterious celestial communications would give such an argument clout, and who wants to argue with midwayers if they desire to organize a social church group? That’s just a guess on my part, an intuitive stab in the dark. I have no inside information . . . just trying to put two and two together.
It would be nice if these folks would share their communications with the rest of the Urantia community since we’re the only ones on the planet who accept the fact that there are midwayers. Let the community at large determine the validity of these emails and also allow somebody with technical know-how track down the digital source. I’m also guessing that they’re coming from an individual within the group who feels the need to manipulate the minds of others so they will follow him/her. It has scam written all over it. Quite clever and sneaky, but scam nonetheless. And I stand firm on that!
Julian wrote: . . . is it inconceivable that a celestial entity would make some kind of approach to us mere mortals? Well obviously it’s not inconceivable! Mary, Elizabeth, Zecharias, Joseph, Jesus, some wise man priest from Mesopotamia, the shepherd boy who heard the 23rd psalm . . . who else? . . . can’t recall right now . . . they all had celestial contact of some kind or another.
Of course that is true Bonita….but what I should have asked is whether it is inconceivable that a celestial entity would make contact with us in the modern era? Well we know it happened early in the 20th century with Dr Sadler and co. The purpose of that was to arrange for the delivery of the 5th Epochal Revelation. Back in the first century however, angels were used on several occasions to facilitate the growth of the apostles’ ministry. In Acts 10: 1-8, an angel appears to the Roman centurion Cornelius, giving him instructions on how to find the apostle Peter. In Acts 12: 7-11, an angel delivers the apostle Peter from prison bondage. One however gets the sense that these were not common occurrences. I cite these biblical incidents in response to your questions:
Weren’t all the bona fide communiques mentioned above somewhat revelatory? Why else bother? Again, what’s the motive?
Well, my friends claim that the messages they receive are exclusively for the purpose of aiding them in their ministry to proclaim the gospel of Jesus.
If the sincere confidence shared by your “dear friends”, Julian, is so laughable, then your own belief in the Urantia Book and its means of reaching us in modern times is also laughable. Why is it strange to you that contact would continue? Why do you all mock this shared confidence so cruelly if you are not reacting out of some negative dis-position? My dear forum friends perhaps you should examine your own motives.
Angela let me make it clear that I am not laughing at nor mocking my friends. I know they are sincere, which is a quality much valued by our Father: The man who knows God looks upon all men as equal; they are his brethren. Those who are selfish, those who ignore their brothers in the flesh, have only weariness as their reward. Those who love their fellows and who have pure hearts shall see God. God never forgets sincerity. He will guide the honest of heart into the truth, for God is truth. P.1443:2
I did not start this thread to heap scorn and ridicule upon them. I cannot accurately judge their motives…..only God can do that! And who of us can claim to have perfectly pure motives? Not me!
The purpose of this thread was to facilitate discussion of the question I originally asked….whether or not it is possible or probable that we could be contacted by an unseen friend? My limited understanding of what the UB teaches on this matter suggests that it is possible but hardly probable.
So, is one person receiving these emails or several (email revelations??!!)? Are the words written to an individual or to a group?
From what I have been told Bradly, some emails were addressed to individuals and some were addressed to the group. A few of those meant for the group (they claim they have received 100s) were displayed on the group’s website. I must admit that I was not overly impressed with what I read….nothing that a mere mortal could not have written.
So, we are told there is only epochal revelation and auto/personal revelation. The examples cited above by Bonita are all “personal” revelation…to the one mind and for the one mind – which mind often feels compelled to share/articulate to others after a fashion.
I always thought that auto-revelation was from our personal Thought Adjuster. They claim that none of the messages constitute “revelation”. As I mentioned in my remarks to Bonita, they were all meant for facilitating ministry.
Thank you also to Gene, Midi, Mara, and Chuck for sharing your viewpoint….I hope I haven’t missed anyone. Your comments have all been helpful. I will endeavour to respond to what you have said over the weekend.
Julian wrote: A few of those meant for the group (they claim they have received 100s) were displayed on the group’s website. I must admit that I was not overly impressed with what I read….nothing that a mere mortal could not have written.I’m curious, what’s the website address? Are they related to the 11:11 crowd who claim to get messages from midwayers every day? It’s amazing to me how far away from reality some folks can wander. But we know it happens, and unfortunately, it happens a lot. These folks are to be pitied. It’s sad.
I wrote a longish response earlier today, but it disappeared. I know. Our celestial friends didn’t approve of what I wrote and they poofed it from existence.
If the sincere confidence shared by your “dear friends”, Julian, is so laughable, then your own belief in the Urantia Book and its means of reaching us in modern times is also laughable. Why is it strange to you that contact would continue? Why do you all mock this shared confidence so cruelly if you are not reacting out of some negative dis-position? My dear forum friends perhaps you should examine your own motives.
Angela….the bard once said that the difference between tragedy and comedy is simply time and distance. Some of us have had many decades of study and encounters (direct and personal) with those who claim to be 1) receiving messages from gods, spirits, celestials, etc.; 2) called for the continuation/completion of the UB, the fifth of 5 epochal (please consider the term and meaning of that word) revelations to the whole planet – one well known party is working on E5, Part II, over 4,000 pages of the “new” revelation (very loosely based on terminologies and personalities in the original UB); 3) recruiting Reservists (like themselves) who are able to “receive and transmit” messages, news, warnings, instructions, etc. from universe rulers – especially regarding the adjudication of the rebellion and the crowning of a new system sovereign and planetary prince, etc. (a review of “reservists” is recommended to identify the self importance and lack of humility required to proclaim oneself such – yet many do so); 4) able to identify special “indigo children” blessed by an infusion of violet Adamic blood (by angel or alien insemination depending on the group); 5) receiving universe broadcasts on behalf of the planet; 6) and there are plenty of similar claims made over the decades, many of which have attracted the weak minded and/or inexperienced readers who had the misconception that the UB was received by such techniques (this is a falsehood), thereby lending false credibility to these claims which are in direct contradiction to the Urantia Papers inaccurately touted as the “source” for their authorities and claims of power.
To me, those who make such claims are truly uncomplicated; but their willing and eager audience? That’s a quandary!!! The UB clearly teaches that many forsake truth and the mighty endeavor of the truth seeker and religionist in favor of spoon fed creed and dogma with the priest class fully supported as intermediaries between gods and humanity. This is weak mindedness.
Each and every person is fully encircuited by the spirits of the Mother, Father, and Son – and none of those are distinguishable from another; and that no agent, person, spirit, or entity may engage the mind of an ascender by any means or method other than through this spirit ministry, including our personal guardian angels – all of whose sole intent, purpose, and priority is the personal spiritual upliftment through the psychic circles of each mortal born.
I appreciate your tolerance of and respect for the experience of others, whether real or mind mischief….but such claims are neither new nor credible. Now, in keeping with Julian’s posted question, I encourage you and all of us to consider and post that UB text which may bring light and understanding to the issue – how, why, by whom, and under what circumstances might we mortal ascenders on our world of birth be contacted by any celestial other than our own TA, Michael’s Spirit of Truth, or the Holy Spirit?
We are warned that any mind which can transcend from the animal mind to the spirit and morontia mind has the inherent capacity for delusion, illusion, and spiritual pride. Combine those with the mind poisons of fear and power over others and you have every ingredient needed for a recipe for disaster!
While I am no fan of apocrypha or the story of the gift of the Papers (the story “about” the UB is as fraught with the dangers demonstrated by the historical twisting of the gospel “of” Jesus into the doctrines/creeds/beliefs/gospel “about” Jesus), my belief is that the contents of the UB is the gift given, not the process of its giving. I doubted, for a long time and several readings, the claims the UB makes for itself, its source, its authority, its authors, etc…..but each reading delivered a repleteness and wholeness of integrated mastery, harmony, balance, logic that, eventually, it became clear to me that there simply is no other explanation for the book except as given within the book itself.
Those who claim the privilege and power to “continue, revise, complete, update” this “epochal revelation” or the ability to defy its words and teachings will forever be a challenge. Seasoned and knowledgeable students who have personal experience with such claims are an important defense for the unwary, inexperienced, and less well-read students. There is nothing any channeler, oracle, medium, spirit guide, or other mortal might say or provide to you or me that is valid related to the factual personal ministry of mind and spirit. To claim such power is delusional or charlatanism; to believe such claims by others is to give away our personal sovereignty and reality into the hands of another mere mortal.
The importance of the topic and question posed is important….the example given first is unfortunate. I hope we may all provide relevant text related to the many claims that the mind at mischief might conjur up (pun intended!).
Mara…Sister you crack me up!!! I’ve had the same thing happen…but I blamed it on the devil! Haahhahahahhaha!
Thank you Bradly. I do agree the Urantia Book is pure and is given at the right time for a long time benefit. It doesn’t need correction or updating. Its far too early to update this Revelation, as mortals need many, many more centuries to absorb and apply to culture, societies and families in enduring repose. Yes, there will be misunderstandings and risks, but the Father’s Plan is a long term one. We need to look forward with the One True Authority for each individual, the bestowed Mystery Monitor we all host within. There is no replacement authority, no matter how clever may be a person. Follow Jesus truthfully in all his ways and that certainly means being fully honest with him.
Thank you Bradly. I am saddened by the level of discussion – it seems far from the spirit of the Urantia Book. It is folly to pronounce judgment on the sincerity or the value of any other person’s contribution to dessemination of Jesus’ teachings. It would be far more preferable to state Julian’s question of whether ‘internet is a likely means of connection in present times’ without holding out a particular group to this public judgment. The suggestion that with further detail a conclusion could be drawn is not a course of action derived from the Urantia Book.
My contribution here is not based upon any affiliation, I simply believe that our celestial teachers are with us at all times, they are able to make use of all current means of communication but are bound by protocols. So it is quite possible that this group is on the up and up.
There is another reason — not connected with the ethical — to avoid disparagement. No human has unconditional authority or supreme knowledge to declare past 1934, what form celestial teaching will take, either as individuals or in representation of a group. There are many possibilities referred to in the Urantia Book, any of which could materialise at any time or be present without our knowledge. Who are we to say when Jesus is scheduling His return? Who are we to declare at what stage we are in our evolutionary path? In my humble opinion, to suggest superior knowledge is itself an expression of ego uncharacteristic of our guidance received in the Urantia Book.
The more closely man approaches God through love, the greater the reality — actuality — of that man. 117:4.14 (1285.3)
There is another reason — not connected with the ethical — to avoid disparagement. No human has unconditional authority or supreme knowledge to declare past 1934, what form celestial teaching will take, either as individuals or in representation of a group. There are many possibilities referred to in the Urantia Book, any of which could materialise at any time or be present without our knowledge. Who are we to say when Jesus is scheduling His return? Who are we to declare at what stage we are in our evolutionary path? In my humble opinion, to suggest superior knowledge is itself an expression of ego uncharacteristic of our guidance received in the Urantia Book.
So Angela, if I should tell you that every morning when I wake up there is a handwritten letter on my desk from a midwayer giving me instructions on how to improve my ability to communicate the meaning of TUB here on the forum, would you accept that as true? Or would you, like any other sane person say, “Yeah right, someone call the white coats.” If I were the kind of person who needed to be in control and on top, it would be a convenient way for me to win every argument and gain prestige. After all, I’d be in the inner circle and getting the right information directly from the source. How could you argue with that?
Well Angela, this is exactly what’s been happening within the UB community since it went public. It’s also what went on at the onset of the implementation of the Fourth Epochal Revelation. Everyone wants to be an insider to the supernatural, superhuman club. But it’s a cheater’s way to finding truth. It’s a way of not only tricking other people, but tricking yourself into believing something that may or may not be based on reality. Our goal in life is to become more real. We’re told not to put much stock in the supernatural because we’re not equipped to handle that level of reality. We’re told to be indifferent to it as best we can. Folks that don’t heed that warning are in danger.
One of the reasons TUB came to us is because the sleeping subject was totally indifferent to the supernatural goings on of his Adjuster. These folks with the emails do not appear to be indifferent, therefore their motives must be questioned. Why aren’t they indifferent? What are they getting out of it? One needs to know the motive.
110:5.7 The Adjuster of the human being through whom this communication is being made enjoys such a wide scope of activity chiefly because of this human’s almost complete indifference to any outward manifestations of the Adjuster’s inner presence; it is indeed fortunate that he remains consciously quite unconcerned about the entire procedure. He holds one of the highly experienced Adjusters of his day and generation, and yet his passive reaction to, and inactive concern toward, the phenomena associated with the presence in his mind of this versatile Adjuster is pronounced by the guardian of destiny to be a rare and fortuitous reaction. And all this constitutes a favorable co-ordination of influences, favorable both to the Adjuster in the higher sphere of action and to the human partner from the standpoints of health, efficiency, and tranquillity.
We’re supposed to improve our abilities to discern truth. Truth discernment requires an effort to understand another person’s motives. There is nothing wrong with questioning motive in an effort to decide, for yourself, the rightness or wrongness of something. However, judging another person’s motive is something else entirely. I am allowed to make judgments for myself only, but not pass judgment on others. In regards to the midwayer email claim, I am not judging the group’s motive, I am attempting to discern the truth of their motive for myself. When I post my opinion on it it, it is my opinion alone, an opinion I’ve arrived at for myself which I am sharing here. Having seen and analyzed other situations similar to this where the motive was revealed as dubious, makes me lean a certain way. I would love to read the website, then I’d know for sure. I’m quite good at recognizing truth by now. I’ve been doing it for a long time, (plus the leprechauns let me know what’s real ever since I found their pot-o-gold at the end of the rainbow
).100:4.6 You cannot truly love your fellows by a mere act of the will. Love is only born of thoroughgoing understanding of your neighbor’s motives and sentiments.
Login to reply to this topic.
Not registered? Sign up here.