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. . . His basis surely included his high value for each person.
Yes,
196:2.10 He taught men to place a high value upon themselves in time and in eternity. Because of this high estimate which Jesus placed upon men, he was willing to spend himself in the unremitting service of humankind. And it was this infinite worth of the finite that made the golden rule a vital factor in his religion. What mortal can fail to be uplifted by the extraordinary faith Jesus has in him?His technique skillfully navigated away from dashing hopes to adding something of value to lives.
Yes, in effect he said to put something in rather than to try to take something out of a person.
141:6.2 When Simon Zelotes and Jesus were alone, Simon asked the Master: “Why is it that I could not persuade him? Why did he so resist me and so readily lend an ear to you?” Jesus answered: “Simon, Simon, how many times have I instructed you to refrain from all efforts to take something out of the hearts of those who seek salvation? How often have I told you to labor only to put something into these hungry souls? Lead men into the kingdom, and the great and living truths of the kingdom will presently drive out all serious error. […]As Bonita previously mentioned “The positive always has the advantage over the negative. . . .” (102:6.7 )His technique skillfully navigated away from dashing hopes to adding something of value to lives.
So, you’re saying we should look for the truth, the spirit hope at the core of a person’s thinking, and focus on that while ignoring the false part? But what if you’re asked what you think of something? For instance using my friend’s cousins again, if they tell me their daughter sent them a sign by making the lights turn on in the middle of the night, then ask me what I think or believe about that, should I tell them the truth? Should I say no, I don’t believe that? Or should I just say, I don’t know about that, but I do believe there is an afterlife where your daughter is in good hands . . . then leave it at that?
It reminds me of the problem we TUB readers face with folks who believe in midwayer emails, angel messages via digital clocks, channeling celestials and dead people, fused mortals staying on the planet and a host of other things I consider baloney. Are those folks just victims of false hope? Are they simply exercising wishful thinking? If so, how do you hone in on their spirit hope in those situations while avoiding trampling on their human hope? I think it’s really hard to do, and even with the best intentions, people tend to get their knickers in a knot if they sense you don’t agree with them, even more forcibly if they’re wrong. It’s a real problem avoiding the triggers that make these folks defensive and hostile. Tough to do. So, if you can’t do it well, should you just let them live with false hope and avoid the issue altogether? Is it like politics . . . just don’t go there?
I don’t know about that, but I do believe there is an afterlife where your daughter is in good hands . . . then leave it at that?
Yes, sounds right to me.
Well Bonita, I had Gadiah in mind with my comments about Jesus’ skill. Jesus didn’t dwell on Gadiah’s beliefs, but rather embellished his understanding of God. Hope in something evil Jesus corrected with good concepts, at least in my understanding of his style.
I prefer not to get into conjecture about varying situations. Let our hearts be pure and focus on the good as we relate to people. If there are persons who insist on false concepts, then we can trust the Mansonian teachers and guides to teach the better ways. For here on Urantia we should rise up to our best in sharing the good with any who desire to grow in Spirit. All of this has been so wonderfully expressed in different forum topics.
3. What is the source of all our insecurities and uncertainties during our mortal lives? What forces can we harness to combat our struggles during our life in the flesh?
Over the years I’ve been interested in ALL the help we have to assist us in our mortal struggles. I never got around to making a list, but I’ll bet Bonita has a list. If you do, will you share it? The so-called forces in the question are both within and surrounding us, inpinging upon us, leading us and otherwise helping us. Like they say, the whole universe seems to be busy helping mortals acheive the most.
Do we harness these *forces*?
Do we combat our struggles with these *forces*?
Mara wrote:Over the years I’ve been interested in ALL the help we have to assist us in our mortal struggles. I never got around to making a list, but I’ll bet Bonita has a list. If you do, will you share it?No, I’m sorry, I don’t have such a list. I think it would cover the contents of the entire book, no? There are basically four presence circuits: personality gravity; spirit gravity; mind gravity and cosmic gravity. Within each of those presence circuits there are additional ministries. But I’m not sure that’s what you’re talking about. Are you referring to the circuits (which are a force) or to the various personalities who minister? There is a list of circuits in Paper 15 section 9. Also this:9:2.3-4 There are many untrammeled lines of spiritual force and sources of supermaterial power linking the people of Urantia directly with the Deities of Paradise. There exist the connection of the Thought Adjusters direct with the Universal Father, the widespread influence of the spiritual-gravity urge of the Eternal Son, and the spiritual presence of the Conjoint Creator. There is a difference in function between the spirit of the Son and the spirit of the Spirit. The Third Person in his spiritual ministry may function as mind plus spirit or as spirit alone.
In addition to these Paradise presences, Urantians benefit by the spiritual influences and activities of the local and the superuniverse, with their almost endless array of loving personalities who ever lead the true of purpose and the honest of heart upward and inward towards the ideals of divinity and the goal of supreme perfection
Mara wrote:What forces can we harness to combat our struggles during our life in the flesh?By using the word force I’m guessing you mean a source of energy and the sovereignty of power? If that’s what you mean, I think the answer is soul powers chosen by the power of personality, all of which are accessed by prayer. The prayer of faith is a mighty force (91:6.3).
91:6.4 Prayer, even as a purely human practice, a dialogue with one’s alter ego, constitutes a technique of the most efficient approach to the realization of those reserve powers of human nature which are stored and conserved in the unconscious realms of the human mind. Prayer is a sound psychologic practice, aside from its religious implications and its spiritual significance. It is a fact of human experience that most persons, if sufficiently hard pressed, will pray in some way to some source of help.
100:4.3 But the great problem of religious living consists in the task of unifying the soul powers of the personality by the dominance of LOVE.
5:3.7 Sincere worship connotes the mobilization of all the powers of the human personality under the dominance of the evolving soul and subject to the divine directionization of the associated Thought Adjuster.
More hair splitting:
If I think about “undying hope” it can easily become an oxymoron
does undying connect with the eternal? Will the assumed undying hope die with our mortal self or survive to morontia?
Undying hope should therefore be connected with the eternal?? Of adjuster origin and destiny??
dying hope stays here.
Hi,
What forces can we harness to combat our struggles during our life in the flesh?
In #28154
… I answered the question in such a way because didn’t think “those spiritual forces” must be approach to master them.
Def. harnest
- To bring under control and direct the force of ….
- close association
- ability to work in harness with others
Do we harness these *forces*?
In my point of view … no need.
Those forces are diffuse from spirituals ministrie.
Leading, helping us , as you said to harness, bring under control the animal/human self … divinely bestowed freedom of choice. 13:4.5
… personnality is one of those forces
The personality is the unifier of these components of experiential individuality. 9:4.6
André
Then there’s what Rodan said:
160:3.1 How best can I awaken these latent powers for good which lie dormant in your souls? One thing I am sure of: Emotional excitement is not the ideal spiritual stimulus. Excitement does not augment energy; it rather exhausts the powers of both mind and body. Whence then comes the energy to do these great things? Look to your Master. Even now he is out in the hills taking in power while we are here giving out energy. The secret of all this problem is wrapped up in spiritual communion, in worship. From the human standpoint it is a question of combined meditation and relaxation. Meditation makes the contact of mind with spirit; relaxation determines the capacity for spiritual receptivity. And this interchange of strength for weakness, courage for fear, the will of God for the mind of self, constitutes worship. At least, that is the way the philosopher views it.
Do we harness these *forces*?
What do you mean by harness? Do you mean control them or make use of them? Obviously we don’t control anything but our own selves, that’s the power of free will. But making use of God’s will by our will, giving the power of our will to do his will, might be more like it. Using our free will power of personality to make God’s potentials actual is part of the power-personality synthesis of the Supreme.
Then there’s the image of staying connected to the vine. The life force is in the vine, but we don’t control it and it doesn’t control us. Yes, we latch on through the prayer of faith and we hold on to it with trust. The life force within the vine is what produces the fruit of spiritual living, but only if we allow it, if we will that his will be done. I think it’s more of a willingness than a harnessing, don’t you? But as Gene says, it might be just semantics.
Re: What forces can we harness, I like what you said about soul powers, Bonita:
5:3.7 Sincere worship connotes the mobilization of all the powers of the human personality under the dominance of the evolving soul and subject to the divine directionization of the associated Thought Adjuster.
. . . and further,
[. . .] During life the mortal will, the personality power of decision-choice, is resident in the material mind circuits; as terrestrial mortal growth proceeds, this self, with its priceless powers of choice, becomes increasingly identified with the emerging morontia-soul entity. . . . (111:3.2)
. . . and what you said about freedom of choice, andré.
Leading, helping us , as you said to harness, bring under control the animal/human self … divinely bestowed freedom of choice. 13:4.5
What about this interesting reference pointing to “the mightly forces” of moral power and spiritual energy?
156:5.10 Religion is the exclusively spiritual experience of the evolving immortal soul of the God-knowing man, but moral power and spiritual energy are mighty forces which may be utilized in dealing with difficult social situations and in solving intricate economic problems. These moral and spiritual endowments make all levels of human living richer and more meaningful.What is spiritual energy?
Mara wrote: Over the years I’ve been interested in ALL the help we have to assist us in our mortal struggles. I never got around to making a list, but I’ll bet Bonita has a list. If you do, will you share it?
No, I’m sorry, I don’t have such a list.
I decided to start out to compile one. Looks like it is going to be a lengthy one. Here is one I’d like to share:
9:2.3 There are many untrammeled lines of spiritual force and sources of supermaterial power linking the people of Urantia directly with the Deities of Paradise. There exist the connection of the Thought Adjusters direct with the Universal Father, the widespread influence of the spiritual-gravity urge of the Eternal Son, and the spiritual presence of the Conjoint Creator. There is a difference in function between the spirit of the Son and the spirit of the Spirit. The Third Person in his spiritual ministry may function as mind plus spirit or as spirit alone.
Mara, I already shared quote 9:2.3 six panels back when answering your direct question to me. Here is my post again. 😜
Mara wrote:Over the years I’ve been interested in ALL the help we have to assist us in our mortal struggles. I never got around to making a list, but I’ll bet Bonita has a list. If you do, will you share it?No, I’m sorry, I don’t have such a list. I think it would cover the contents of the entire book, no? There are basically four presence circuits: personality gravity; spirit gravity; mind gravity and cosmic gravity. Within each of those presence circuits there are additional ministries. But I’m not sure that’s what you’re talking about. Are you referring to the circuits (which are a force) or to the various personalities who minister? There is a list of circuits in Paper 15 section 9. Also this:9:2.3-4 There are many untrammeled lines of spiritual force and sources of supermaterial power linking the people of Urantia directly with the Deities of Paradise. There exist the connection of the Thought Adjusters direct with the Universal Father, the widespread influence of the spiritual-gravity urge of the Eternal Son, and the spiritual presence of the Conjoint Creator. There is a difference in function between the spirit of the Son and the spirit of the Spirit. The Third Person in his spiritual ministry may function as mind plus spirit or as spirit alone. In addition to these Paradise presences, Urantians benefit by the spiritual influences and activities of the local and the superuniverse, with their almost endless array of loving personalities who ever lead the true of purpose and the honest of heart upward and inward towards the ideals of divinity and the goal of supreme perfection
Just wanted to say what a lovely and inspiring conversation this is.
Upon much reflection and study, I am convinced that improper, misplaced, misguided, and misdirected prayer, love, and hope do demonstrate faith and do deliver fruits of the Spirit….if one can get beyond the disappointments which attend them and remain faithful and, perhaps, learn something that gains in experience, wisdom, and trust. Can we discover the foolishness or folly of self interest we might imbed into our prayers, love, and hopes? If so….then experiential wisdom is achieved and some immaturity is outgrown. For some such an insight might be gloriously illuminating and profound….for others, perhaps, it is only incremental in its more painful and slower acquirement.
However, eventually, all prayer, love, and hope is more reality oriented than the object or objective or agenda. There can only be one source and motive for reaching outside one’s self for help and solution…God Within. Or so I think.
So….I take back my….of course there’s false hope declaration. There are only faulty objects and objectives rather than anything at all that might be called false within prayer, love, and hope. We should feed those in ourselves and all others whenever and however we can. God will see to the education, maturity, and eventual wisdom that all those will deliver in time.
Thanks everyone.
There can only be one source and motive for reaching outside one’s self for help and solution…God Within. Or so I think.
Don’t forget about the adjutants and the angels. We’re told the angels are frequently the source of the urge to pray.
p1245:4 113:4.4 The impulse of worship largely originates in the spirit promptings of the higher mind adjutants, reinforced by the leadings of the Adjuster. But the urge to pray so often experienced by God-conscious mortals very often arises as the result of seraphic influence. The guarding seraphim is constantly manipulating the mortal environment for the purpose of augmenting the cosmic insight of the human ascender to the end that such a survival candidate may acquire enhanced realization of the presence of the indwelling Adjuster and thus be enabled to yield increased co-operation with the spiritual mission of the divine presence.
Also, I agree that false hope is still hope imperfectly executed. The urge to hope seems to come from the same place, what makes it true or false is its relation to reality. Only truth can be acted out in reality. False hope is incompletely attuned hope. The incomplete, the immature, the imperfect, the evil, (other words for false) will always have difficulty being acted out . . . it’s the square circles kind of thing. Which makes me wonder why so many people put so much energy into forcing false hopes to come true, and why, when they fail, do people need to find scapegoats to punish for their own evil? It’s weird.
(1299.1) 118:5.1 The omnipotence of Deity does not imply the power to do the nondoable. Within the time-space frame and from the intellectual reference point of mortal comprehension, even the infinite God cannot create square circles or produce evil that is inherently good. God cannot do the ungodlike thing. Such a contradiction of philosophic terms is the equivalent of nonentity and implies that nothing is thus created. A personality trait cannot at the same time be Godlike and ungodlike. Compossibility is innate in divine power. And all of this is derived from the fact that omnipotence not only creates things with a nature but also gives origin to the nature of all things and beings.
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