-
Posts
-
Undying because the person does not give up, continues in faith, and never stops reaching in one’s thoughts for something better. Hope is the fulfillment of that undying feature of mind capability. Ya think?
I do. I was thinking undying hope, a divine fruit of the spirit, is undying because it lives. It’s alive. A living fruit. It is a spiritual something that is produced or developed, and, it is given freely and abundantly anywhere to anyone, perhaps as we pass by.
100:2.1 Spiritual development depends, first, on the maintenance of a living spiritual connection with true spiritual forces and, second, on the continuous bearing of spiritual fruit: yielding the ministry to one’s fellows of that which has been received from one’s spiritual benefactors. [snipped]Of course I cannot prove to anyone that undying hope is alive. The revelators didn’t say *living hope*, but by saying it is undying seems to infer that is is living. Jesus said, “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.”180:2.1[Part IV]Then Jesus stood up again and continued teaching his apostles: “I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. I am the vine, and you are the branches. And the Father requires of me only that you shall bear much fruit. The vine is pruned only to increase the fruitfulness of its branches. Every branch coming out of me which bears no fruit, the Father will take away. Every branch which bears fruit, the Father will cleanse that it may bear more fruit. Already are you clean through the word I have spoken, but you must continue to be clean. You must abide in me, and I in you; the branch will die if it is separated from the vine. As the branch cannot bear fruit except it abides in the vine, so neither can you yield the fruits of loving service except you abide in me. Remember: I am the real vine, and you are the living branches. He who lives in me, and I in him, will bear much fruit of the spirit and experience the supreme joy of yielding this spiritual harvest. If you will maintain this living spiritual connection with me, you will bear abundant fruit. If you abide in me and my words live in you, you will be able to commune freely with me, and then can my living spirit so infuse you that you may ask whatsoever my spirit wills and do all this with the assurance that the Father will grant us our petition. Herein is the Father glorified: that the vine has many living branches, and that every branch bears much fruit. And when the world sees these fruit-bearing branches — my friends who love one another, even as I have loved them — all men will know that you are truly my disciples.Are we not the living branches abiding in the real vine?also, as Jesus mentioned false hope, remember he is the 4th epochal revelation and the concept of Adjuster origin hope is part of the 5th. We’ve been upgraded.
Are you saying that the Adjusters who indwelled minds prior to the printing of TUB were not the source of undying hope for their human partners?
Of course I cannot prove to anyone that undying hope is alive. The revelators didn’t say *living hope*, but by saying it is undying seems to infer that is is living.
I think these quotes pretty much say, or at least imply, that hope is alive:
p1745:1 157:2.2 Even now you should begin to find deliverance from the bondage of fear and doubt as you enter upon the living of the new life of faith and hope.
p1727:7 155:3.7 They learned that, when religion is wholly spiritual in motive, it makes all life more worth while, filling it with high purposes, dignifying it with transcendent values, inspiring it with superb motives, all the while comforting the human soul with a sublime and sustaining hope.
If spirit is living, then hope is living. If faith is living, then hope is living. If true religion is living, then hope is living.
Gene wrote:If hope springs from the Adjuster, how could it be false?
Consider these next two quotes:
p1591:6 141:5.1 Your apostolic harmony must grow out of the fact that the spirit hope of each of you is identical in origin, nature, and destiny
107:6.2 They truly and divinely love you; they are the prisoners of spirit hope confined within the minds of men.
I think SPIRIT HOPE is the ideal the Adjuster wants us to strive for. Sometimes HUMAN HOPE may fall short of SPIRIT HOPE and can thereby be considered FALSE HOPE. Our highest hope, and the very urge to hope itself, originates with the Adjuster, but it is interpreted and applied by the material mind, which is sadly to say, pitifully humbling in its ability to grasp divine meanings and values. Our highest hopes may not always be attuned to the Adjuster’s ideal, which makes them false even though the source is true. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t continue to hope while working for greater wisdom and finer attunement.
also, as Jesus mentioned false hope, remember he is the 4th epochal revelation and the concept of Adjuster origin hope is part of the 5th. We’ve been upgraded.
Are you saying that the Adjusters who indwelled minds prior to the printing of TUB were not the source of undying hope for their human partners?
no
but what you posted about Spirit hope and human hope sums up the distinction I had in mind.
two meanings for one word, why?
no
So what are you saying then? Is false hope different now than it was then? Not following this:
Gene wrote:also, as Jesus mentioned false hope, remember he is the 4th epochal revelation and the concept of Adjuster origin hope is part of the 5th. We’ve been upgraded.I have another question for the group. Is hope, regardless of whether or not it is false or true, always a good thing? Is it better to have false hope than no hope?no
So what are you saying then? Is false hope different now than it was then? Not following this:
Gene wrote:also, as Jesus mentioned false hope, remember he is the 4th epochal revelation and the concept of Adjuster origin hope is part of the 5th. We’ve been upgraded.I have another question for the group. Is hope, regardless of whether or not it is false or true, always a good thing? Is it better to have false hope than no hope?dont know how else to say it: true hope, spirit hope has real value and meaning. Why use the same word for false hope? Makes us feel good I suppose to change context to fit the situation because it attempts to do the non-doable, elevate the valueless/ meaningless to value/meaning?false hope will always be false, call it hope if you like but it’s something elseIs it better to have false hope than no hope?
“No hope” seems like a depression is about to set in. Or, maybe no hope indicates to the individual that something about which the individual hoped for is not right or righteous, and, not in accordance with the will of God, and the individual succumbs to no hope because he/she cannot adjust to the reality of the circumstances. (I’m not talking about the biochemistry of depression.)
Age and experience are factors in the choosing of what is hoped for. If one’s attitude is along the lines of God’s-will-be-done, then I think there will always be the kind of HOPE we’re talking about – undying hope. Other kinds of hope have other qualifiers, such as false hope, dying hope, dark hope, etc.
Two things come to mind. First, I think about myself and my experiences of hope or lack of hope – looking backwards, looking at the present, and to an imagined future. I first tap my experiences because that is what I know. I think we all do this. And we as individuals can see how *hope* which is on the inside has changed over time. Secondly, once a person is hooked up to God’s-will-be-done, then increasingly and certainly will the person be filled up to overflowing with undying hope – my cup runneth over – and I think this giving of undying-hope-ministry to our neighbors, our fellows, friend and stranger, is given without censor or restraint because it cannot be retrained. It seems to me that’s what divine fruitfulness means.
Do you think the following quote is talking about a kind of false hope . . . hoping to accomplish things that are unattainable? If so, I think the universe tolerates some level of false hope . . . which might mean that even unwise hope is better than no hope . . . maybe?
(508.2) 44:8.4 But every human being should remember: Many ambitions to excel which tantalize mortals in the flesh will not persist with these same mortals in the morontia and spirit careers. The ascending morontians learn to socialize their former purely selfish longings and egoistic ambitions. Nevertheless, those things which you so earnestly longed to do on earth and which circumstances so persistently denied you, if, after acquiring true mota insight in the morontia career, you still desire to do, then will you most certainly be granted every opportunity fully to satisfy your long-cherished desires.
I think about my friend’s cousins who are inventing all kinds of mystical experiences which somehow prove to them that their dead daughter is still alive but in an alternate realm . . . not as a ghost, but as an angel who is trying to communicate with them. They seem to really need this kind of hope, but we know it is essentially false. Yes, their daughter is still alive, or possibly asleep awaiting resurrection, but she is not an angel or sending them messages. That’s the false part.
I think hope takes many forms, and even false hope can be sustaining as long as the disappointment, which will inevitably come, results in increased wisdom and growth. But I could be wrong about this . . . not sure. Was Mary’s false hope in Jesus futile? Or was the disappointment and confusion part of her growth process?
(1387.5) 126:1.5 By the beginning of this year both Joseph and Mary entertained frequent doubts about the destiny of their first-born son. He was indeed a brilliant and lovable child, but he was so difficult to understand, so hard to fathom, and again, nothing extraordinary or miraculous ever happened. Scores of times had his proud mother stood in breathless anticipation, expecting to see her son engage in some superhuman or miraculous performance, but always were her hopes dashed down in cruel disappointment. And all this was discouraging, even disheartening. The devout people of those days truly believed that prophets and men of promise always demonstrated their calling and established their divine authority by performing miracles and working wonders. But Jesus did none of these things; wherefore was the confusion of his parents steadily increased as they contemplated his future.
It’s semantics, and a paradox and false hope imho is wishful thinking.
many things that are written only make sense to me because I get the context. If I were the author I would reserve hope for the real thing that has true value-like the hope for soul/personality survival that happens as result of Adjuster efforts.
id call everything else a wish.
just me but again, I get the context idea. Playing with words is cool.
i suppose it’s analogous to true and false liberty. The latter has meaning in the words but no real value in reality. It could easily be renamed and retain the basic concept.
two meanings for one word, why?
We’re dual creatures. One meaning for the material mind, the other for the soul. We’re always supposed to be striving for the higher meaning. If there wasn’t a ladder of meanings to climb, what would we be doing here? Hope keeps you climbing, even if you’re making missteps.
. . . false hope imho is wishful thinking.
I think so too. I get what you’re saying.
Mary the mother of Jesus had a wishful thinking problem too, concerning her son and the promised Messiah idea of the Hebrews. All Jewry was expectant of the fulfillment of that promise, especially at that time when the land was under the thumb of the Romans. Mary struggled with her own fluctuating attitudes.
138:0.1 [. . .] His mother constantly wavered between attitudes of fluctuating faith and hope, and increasing emotions of disappointment, humiliation, and despair. Only Ruth, the youngest, remained unswervingly loyal to her father-brother.
154:6.1 [. . .] Mary was likewise torn between love and fear, between mother love and family pride. Though she was harassed by doubts, she could never quite forget the visit of Gabriel ere Jesus was born.
Can you imagine being the mother of Jesus?!! But I digress. . . .
Eventually all of us will become disappointment-proof. On the level of humanly conceived hopes, which are short-sighted in my opinion, all of us have come up against the dashing of our fondest hopes. Oh well. Such a life on such a planet. Everyone has disappointments, hopes, dreams. We were designed that way, don’t you think?
3:5.13 8. Is unselfishness — the spirit of self-forgetfulness — desirable? Then must mortal man live face to face with the incessant clamoring of an inescapable self for recognition and honor. Man could not dynamically choose the divine life if there were no self-life to forsake. Man could never lay saving hold on righteousness if there were no potential evil to exalt and differentiate the good by contrast.If you know, and are sure, that someone you care about is entertaining false hopes, do you have a duty to point it out? Or, should you allow them to hope even if it’s misguided? Is there a time when “dashing one’s hopes” does more harm than good?
Bonita, my first recollection for your question (28296) is the revelator’s remark about the two main questions Jesus considered for all his life, his major mission idea decisions as he related to people: — what does it do to bring God to man and what does it do to bring man to God? (Or similar wording; recall?) If we could become highly skilled at addressing these two questions for our relations, we would be like God, approaching Godliness in our souls! His basis surely included his high value for each person. His technique skillfully navigated away from dashing hopes to adding something of value to lives. Golly, he was so attractive in his style!
Jesus did dash hopes for his enemies who were determined to destroy him. What were they hoping for when they refused him as the Deliverer? Did he always attempt to attract them in spirit? I like to think so.
Say you?
Jesus did dash hopes. . . .
He did dash hopes of the apostles and of his family a lot, but he didn’t do it intentionally or purposely.If you know, and are sure, that someone you care about is entertaining false hopes, do you have a duty to point it out? Or, should you allow them to hope even if it’s misguided? Is there a time when “dashing one’s hopes” does more harm than good?
Like it or not people are going to have their misguided hopes. Not a thing anyone can do about it. People have stuff to learn. Sometimes they learn the hard way. And that leads to wisdom. It is useless to tell someone, “I told you so.” Who benefits from that?
Reminds me a little of this illustration of human philosophy given to us:
48:7.16 14. Whet the appetites of your associates for truth; give advice only when it is asked for.Wisdom is the principal thing, said the Hebrew wise man. (133:9.3)196:3.4 The full summation of human life is the knowledge that man is educated by fact, ennobled by wisdom, and saved — justified — by religious faith.
Login to reply to this topic.
Not registered? Sign up here.