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Bradly wrote: Bonita – isn’t lack of loyalty also selfish or self centered?Yes, I think so. I suppose a person can lack loyalty out of ignorance though, but that can’t last long unless there are serious mental issues.Bradly wrote: The mind poisons are all about self importance in some way, including fear I think.
I’m not sure about that one. Didn’t God give us fear for a reason? Why would he give us a poison . . . he wouldn’t do that. I think fear is supposed to play a role in evolution. But we’re supposed to evolve fear too, as I see it, personally and collectively.
Bradly wrote: While in the parable, the master takes back the single talent, I think truly not investing the talent simply makes the talent null and void . . .If the talent was null and void, why did he give it to the “ten-talent fella”? I don’t think any of God’s gifts, which is what the talents are, can ever become null and void. Nothing of value is ever lost. Not even personality is annihilated, only identity is. So the problem of not investing the talent belongs to the hole digger, not to the talent, which is then re-gifted to someone else who will use it loyally.
What do you think Jesus meant when he said, ” . . . and no thought is bestowed upon the higher duty of obtaining increased yield of the fruits of the spirit . . . ” Thought bestowed upon the higher duty of increased yield . . . isn’t that the same as increasing one’s spiritual capacity? Don’t we increase our spiritual capacity by consecration of our will to God’s will? Don’t we also increase our capacity by prayer? And, I think they tell us that the measure of our spiritual capacity is our faith in truth and love for others . . . which are fruits. I still think living a prayerful life, always in communion with that inner alter-ego presence, always seeking and striving for truth, beauty and goodness, is a “ten-talent fella” kind of life.So I think the hole digger didn’t give a thought to his loyalty relationship with God. He thoughtlessly went about his business totally indifferent to the talent given him. He put it aside for later. Later came and he lost. A wise word for those self-absorbed procrastinators of this world . . . but I can’t preach because I’ve been guilty a few times myself. We live and learn.I think getting deeper into what talents represent will only distort the image intended….but I’ll quibble a little….hahaha!
In reality, if I don’t use my talents given to me, they are not then redistributed to another. We are each and all given a similar purse of talents just because we have what’s needed to deliver moral choices which leads to the birth of soul. Once soul is born we are likewise equally endowed by all the circuits, mind ministries, and spirits of ministry to discern the spirit nature and respond to the voice within. As we each have these in common, then none is taken from some and given to others instead.
But I do think there are other unique and personal talents we are born with as well which come by DNA and tribal/family/social cultures. So there is intelligence born with and education of intelligence not born with – as example. Some have great minds for discovery and invention and others for great music, etc. and others have patience and a nurturing spirit, etc. We all have a unique basket of talents as well as those held in common. What we do with these gifts, or do not do, is I think, the point of the parable.
The only source of ‘profit’ for our gifts is growth in the Spirit….the fruits of the Spirit. And if we do not invest these talents/gifts, then eventually they are lost to us by not using them to enter the kingdom and consciously choosing to attach to and be nourished by the vine. How many parables can be cut and pasted together which support each other and extend the meaning of each into a greater all I wonder? So that was my point on squandering our gifts resulting in our own self irrelevancy….we will eventually lose those precious gifts if we do not invest them in love and service….those who have done nothing with the talent(s) will not keep them indefinitely but will face an accounting of the soul.
As to fear…..there’s well over 200 quotes on fear. And while the fight or flight and ghost fear all have purpose earlier in a planet’s development, those decline in number I think as the world progresses. Modern fear that is not about the immediacy of perceived danger is not held up as any sort of good thing….especially so for a kingdom believer! Fear is most often ME centered. The fear of loss of something often drives and determines a person’s motivation to make decisions. So what once saved us from sabre tooth tigers morphs into that which limits trust and faith and loyalty to the Spirit nature and prevents a person from engaging in self forgetting love and service. The Divine nature is not served by fear, rather, fear becomes obstacle. Now if one’s fear drives them to God for help, then it does still have functionality….unless that fear does not find relief in such outreach. We are not to fear for our destiny or that of others nor fear for our world and to remain steadfast and loyal no matter the material mayhem about us. Can we serve in fear? Anyway, fear is a big topic of its own and I don’t mean to take us off on a tangent here.
The mind poisons are all about self importance in some way, including fear I think. I agree there is no real punishment – it is self depravation by free will choice and personally determined motive, intention, priority, purpose, etc.
Bradly, you’ve mentioned “mind poisons” several times, in various posts but I have searched TUB and found the closest reference to your usage of this as “physical poisons”, which effects “material mind” and can be associated to “mental poisons” which have been associated to emotions, like fear, etc., so your reference above “including fear” would be correct, however I’m not sure how it relates to “self importance”?
(1204.3) 110:1.5 The Adjuster remains with you in all disaster and through every sickness which does not wholly destroy the mentality. But how unkind knowingly to defile or otherwise deliberately to pollute the physical body, which must serve as the earthly tabernacle of this marvelous gift from God. All physical poisons greatly retard the efforts of the Adjuster to exalt the material mind, while the mental poisons of fear, anger, envy, jealousy, suspicion, and intolerance likewise tremendously interfere with the spiritual progress of the evolving soul.
One can understand how “physical poisons” might effect a person in their association with the Thought Adjuster, where using alcohol, drugs (illegal or prescribed), and even medical issues can affect a person thinking, but the mention of “mental poisons” as indicated above, would seem to be personality issues, where “fear” as it might relate to the parable of the “talents” would be relate to fear of either failure, or risk of failure, because that individual with one talent, could not have been close to his master, enough that he may have misunderstood his masters reasoning for having given him the least to invest? Therefore, those emotions listed above (“fear, anger, envy, jealousy, suspicion and intolerance”) would apply to “mind poisons” when assumed as “mental poisons”, but as mentioned above interferes with the “evolving soul”, and under certain circumstances, correctable, once identified?
The UB quote that follows the one above, might indicate that the individual would not really know about their association with the Adjuster, or their level of attainment they may have achieved, so even when one errs, their assumed punishment received, could be a learning experience, as long as their self-respect is not shattered, and just a method of tuning the soul?
(1204.4) 110:1.6 Today you are passing through the period of the courtship of your Adjuster; and if you only prove faithful to the trust reposed in you by the divine spirit who seeks your mind and soul in eternal union, there will eventually ensue that morontia oneness, that supernal harmony, that cosmic coordination, that divine attunement, that celestial fusion, that never-ending blending of identity, that oneness of being which is so perfect and final that even the most experienced personalities can never segregate or recognize as separate identities the fusion partners — mortal man and divine Adjuster.
It is interesting about one definition of “talent” as associated to this parable, in that “#6 – a power of mind or body considered as given to a person for use and improvement: so called from the parable in Matt. 25:14–30”, where what has been considered as the “power of mind or body” which would associate to the first UB quote above.
I’m not quibbling here, just trying to expand some meanings. If the Adjuster is a gift given to the hole digger, and if we consider such a gift to be a talent, what happens when he decides to bury the Adjuster with indifference? If it gets bad enough the Adjuster leaves, right? But the Adjuster is not null and void; actually, the Adjuster is likely re-gifted to another, bringing along all the worthwhile experiences he had with the hole digger. So again, nothing worthwhile, nothing of value, which is what the talents are, is ever lost or made null and void. They are given to someone else, like the ten-talent fella who really wants them and uses them.We all pretty much have similar gifts, but we all have different abilities and different capacities to use those gifts and that is taken into account. We know this because the Adjusters look at each person’s abilities and capacities before choosing who they want to indwell. And except virgin Adjusters, they themselves have different experiences and abilities in making contact with the human mind. But I agree that every normal person has access to very similar ministries, both mind and spirit. However, access is not the same as utilization. For instance, we all have access to health care, but not all of us use it for a variety of reasons. There are many different reasons why a person might not utilize the various ministries to their greatest potential. Opportunity and time play a role as well, which is why we are given so many lives.In regards to profit I go back to my assertion that profit making is unconscious and therefore immaterial to the decision making process. All the profits of fruit production belong to God. The act is ours, the consequences his. If you recall, the good stewards in the parable invested the talents, not the profits. They all turned their profits over to the Lord. All the truth, beauty and goodness produced in our lives does not belong to us individually and therefore cannot be reinvested by us. That is God’s work, or more specifically, the Spirit of Truth’s work and we should allow him to do it.Fruit production, if true, would be an unconscious growth of usefulness in the kingdom, which goes back to my do-gooder stance. If I wake up in the morning and say today my business is to show the world how well I produce fruit, then my mind is twisted around all backwards on myself. The parable Jesus told about the sower of seed who had no idea how it grew to harvest explains the phenomenon of unconscious profits very well, and also makes clear that the reaping is God’s, not ours.In regards to fear, I don’t think we humans can rid ourselves of it entirely. It is built into our DNA for a purpose and it is our job to master that purpose. Like the ego, which we cannot get rid of either, we can master it. Unbridled, unmastered fear is like a wild animal. We can tame it and use it to our advantage. They tell us fear is the beginning of wisdom, but only for humans who have the gifts necessary to obtain wisdom. We have the gifts within us to master fear and evolve it. Our goal is to evolve from fear to love and that evolution requires revelation, otherwise fear stalls out at awe and reverence.So all the talk about fear being a poison is okay except it creates the impression that if you have it you’re gonna die. It’s not like that. We don’t have to waste time looking for the antidote in order to save our lives. If we think fear is something to be avoided because it’s deadly, we’ll never be able to identify it and master it. We’ll just keep running from it getting more and more scared all the time. I think that’s a bigger problem in the long run. When Jesus said, “Fear not,” he didn’t mean for us to be afraid of being afraid. He meant for us to trust more and have faith; that’s how we master fear. Faith and trust give us the courage to look fear straight in the eye and face it for what it is. And, if we don’t think we have the courage to do it, we can trust that someone living inside our head does have enough courage to do it, and will if we agree to tackle it together. That’s the beginning of wisdom, if you ask me.108:5.8 The Thought Adjusters would like to change your feelings of fear to convictions of love and confidence; but they cannot mechanically and arbitrarily do such things; that is your task.
130:6.3 Set your mind at work to solve its problems; teach your intellect to work for you; refuse longer to be dominated by fear like an unthinking animal.
4:4.9 The consciousness of a victorious human life on earth is born of that creature faith which dares to challenge each recurring episode of existence when confronted with the awful spectacle of human limitations, by the unfailing declaration: Even if I cannot do this, there lives in me one who can and will do it, a part of the Father-Absolute of the universe of universes. And that is “the victory which overcomes the world, even your faith.”
Bradly wrote: While in the parable, the master takes back the single talent, I think truly not investing the talent simply makes the talent null and void . . .If the talent was null and void, why did he give it to the “ten-talent fella”? I don’t think any of God’s gifts, which is what the talents are, can ever become null and void. Nothing of value is ever lost. Not even personality is annihilated, only identity is.
(53:9.7) The rebellion has ended on Jerusem. It ends on the fallen worlds as fast as divine Sons arrive. We believe that all rebels who will ever accept mercy have done so. We await the flashing broadcast that will deprive these traitors of personality existence. We anticipate the verdict of Uversa will be announced by the executionary broadcast which will effect the annihilation of these interned rebels. Then will you look for their places, but they shall not be found. “And they who know you among the worlds will be astonished at you; you have been a terror, but never shall you be any more.” And thus shall all of these unworthy traitors “become as though they had not been.” All await the Uversa decree.always in communion with that inner alter-ego presence(91:3.1) Children, when first learning to make use of language, are prone to think out loud, to express their thoughts in words, even if no one is present to hear them. With the dawn of creative imagination they evince a tendency to converse with imaginary companions. In this way a budding ego seeks to hold communion with a fictitious alter ego. By this technique the child early learns to convert his monologue conversations into pseudo dialogues in which this alter ego makes replies to his verbal thinking and wish expression. Very much of an adult’s thinking is mentally carried on in conversational form.An excellent summary….thank you Bonita. I agree fear is to be mastered and not to itself be feared! While I pray with thanksgiving mostly, certainly every anxiety and fear I feel is taken immediately to Father in prayer which seems to melt the angst and clarify my approach to whatever temporal matter which delivers it. In this manner, fears arises with less and less frequency and far less force. The believer must remember our source and our destiny and the fact that all is in the hands of God and all things work out, eventually, for the greater good for the each and for the all. Such perspective brings relief and confidence in stepping forth with courage and loyalty to choose and choose again in faith that the consequences of all love motivated choices reside in God’s hands. Fear Not! God is Good!
I hope you will not think me too forward for posting the next parable on the list but it has some interesting parallels for discovery and discussion:
(1651.6) 147:5.2 The wealthy Pharisees were devoted to almsgiving, and they did not shun publicity regarding their philanthropy. Sometimes they would even blow a trumpet as they were about to bestow charity upon some beggar. It was the custom of these Pharisees, when they provided a banquet for distinguished guests, to leave the doors of the house open so that even the street beggars might come in and, standing around the walls of the room behind the couches of the diners, be in position to receive portions of food which might be tossed to them by the banqueters.
(1651.7) 147:5.3 On this particular occasion at Simon’s house, among those who came in off the street was a woman of unsavory reputation who had recently become a believer in the good news of the gospel of the kingdom. This woman was well known throughout all Jerusalem as the former keeper of one of the so-called high-class brothels located hard by the temple court of the gentiles. She had, on accepting the teachings of Jesus, closed up her nefarious place of business and had induced the majority of the women associated with her to accept the gospel and change their mode of living; notwithstanding this, she was still held in great disdain by the Pharisees and was compelled to wear her hair down — the badge of harlotry. This unnamed woman had brought with her a large flask of perfumed anointing lotion and, standing behind Jesus as he reclined at meat, began to anoint his feet while she also wet his feet with her tears of gratitude, wiping them with the hair of her head. And when she had finished this anointing, she continued weeping and kissing his feet.
(1652.1) 147:5.4 When Simon saw all this, he said to himself: “This man, if he were a prophet, would have perceived who and what manner of woman this is who thus touches him; that she is a notorious sinner.” And Jesus, knowing what was going on in Simon’s mind, spoke up, saying: “Simon, I have something which I would like to say to you.” Simon answered, “Teacher, say on.” Then said Jesus: “A certain wealthy moneylender had two debtors. The one owed him five hundred denarii and the other fifty. Now, when neither of them had wherewith to pay, he forgave them both. Which of them do you think, Simon, would love him most?” Simon answered, “He, I suppose, whom he forgave the most.” And Jesus said, “You have rightly judged,” and pointing to the woman, he continued: “Simon, take a good look at this woman. I entered your house as an invited guest, yet you gave me no water for my feet. This grateful woman has washed my feet with tears and wiped them with the hair of her head. You gave me no kiss of friendly greeting, but this woman, ever since she came in, has not ceased to kiss my feet. My head with oil you neglected to anoint, but she has anointed my feet with precious lotions. And what is the meaning of all this? Simply that her many sins have been forgiven, and this has led her to love much. But those who have received but little forgiveness sometimes love but little.” And turning around toward the woman, he took her by the hand and, lifting her up, said: “You have indeed repented of your sins, and they are forgiven. Be not discouraged by the thoughtless and unkind attitude of your fellows; go on in the joy and liberty of the kingdom of heaven.”
(1652.2) 147:5.5 When Simon and his friends who sat at meat with him heard these words, they were the more astonished, and they began to whisper among themselves, “Who is this man that he even dares to forgive sins?” And when Jesus heard them thus murmuring, he turned to dismiss the woman, saying, “Woman, go in peace; your faith has saved you.”
(1652.3) 147:5.6 As Jesus arose with his friends to leave, he turned to Simon and said: “I know your heart, Simon, how you are torn betwixt faith and doubts, how you are distraught by fear and troubled by pride; but I pray for you that you may yield to the light and may experience in your station in life just such mighty transformations of mind and spirit as may be comparable to the tremendous changes which the gospel of the kingdom has already wrought in the heart of your unbidden and unwelcome guest. And I declare to all of you that the Father has opened the doors of the heavenly kingdom to all who have the faith to enter, and no man or association of men can close those doors even to the most humble soul or supposedly most flagrant sinner on earth if such sincerely seek an entrance.” And Jesus, with Peter, James, and John, took leave of their host and went to join the rest of the apostles at the camp in the garden of Gethsemane.
(1653.1) 147:5.7 That same evening Jesus made the long-to-be-remembered address to the apostles regarding the relative value of status with God and progress in the eternal ascent to Paradise. Said Jesus: “My children, if there exists a true and living connection between the child and the Father, the child is certain to progress continuously toward the Father’s ideals. True, the child may at first make slow progress, but the progress is none the less sure. The important thing is not the rapidity of your progress but rather its certainty. Your actual achievement is not so important as the fact that the direction of your progress is Godward. What you are becoming day by day is of infinitely more importance than what you are today.
(1653.2) 147:5.8 “This transformed woman whom some of you saw at Simon’s house today is, at this moment, living on a level which is vastly below that of Simon and his well-meaning associates; but while these Pharisees are occupied with the false progress of the illusion of traversing deceptive circles of meaningless ceremonial services, this woman has, in dead earnest, started out on the long and eventful search for God, and her path toward heaven is not blocked by spiritual pride and moral self-satisfaction. The woman is, humanly speaking, much farther away from God than Simon, but her soul is in progressive motion; she is on the way toward an eternal goal. There are present in this woman tremendous spiritual possibilities for the future. Some of you may not stand high in actual levels of soul and spirit, but you are making daily progress on the living way opened up, through faith, to God. There are tremendous possibilities in each of you for the future. Better by far to have a small but living and growing faith than to be possessed of a great intellect with its dead stores of worldly wisdom and spiritual unbelief.”
(1653.3) 147:5.9 But Jesus earnestly warned his apostles against the foolishness of the child of God who presumes upon the Father’s love. He declared that the heavenly Father is not a lax, loose, or foolishly indulgent parent who is ever ready to condone sin and forgive recklessness. He cautioned his hearers not mistakenly to apply his illustrations of father and son so as to make it appear that God is like some overindulgent and unwise parents who conspire with the foolish of earth to encompass the moral undoing of their thoughtless children, and who are thereby certainly and directly contributing to the delinquency and early demoralization of their own offspring. Said Jesus: “My Father does not indulgently condone those acts and practices of his children which are self-destructive and suicidal to all moral growth and spiritual progress. Such sinful practices are an abomination in the sight of God.”
Some people seem to be confused about what happens to the personality after annihilation. The personality itself cannot be annihilated. Personality is pattern of divine origin. It cannot cease to be, it only ceases to function being deprived of a vehicle of expression; there is no longer a mind, body or energy system associated with it. An abandoned personality pattern is absorbed into the Supreme and continues as part of the experience of the Supreme, but it is not destroyed. Only identity is destroyed, actually relinquished. In order to have identity there must be some level of self-consciousness. Without personality, and without mind, self-consciousness cannot exist, therefore identity cannot either.
2:3.4 When this sentence is finally confirmed, the sin-identified being instantly becomes as though he had not been. There is no resurrection from such a fate; it is everlasting and eternal. The living energy factors of identity are resolved by the transformations of time and the metamorphoses of space into the cosmic potentials whence they once emerged. As for the personality of the iniquitous one, it is deprived of a continuing life vehicle by the creature’s failure to make those choices and final decisions which would have assured eternal life. When the continued embrace of sin by the associated mind culminates in complete self-identification with iniquity, then upon the cessation of life, upon cosmic dissolution, such an isolated personality is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the evolving experience of the Supreme Being. Never again does it appear as a personality; its identity becomes as though it had never been. In the case of an Adjuster-indwelt personality, the experiential spirit values survive in the reality of the continuing Adjuster.
117:4.2 But if a creature rejects the eternal career, that part of the Supreme which was dependent on this creature’s choice experiences inescapable delay, a deprivation which must be compensated by substitutional or collateral experience; as for the personality of the nonsurvivor, it is absorbed into the oversoul of creation, becoming a part of the Deity of the Supreme.
It also seems to me that some are confused concerning the value of the alter-ego approach to prayer. The alter-ego begins as a fictitious entity but over time, and with the right attitude, becomes the actual presence of God within. We are told that the alter-ego approach is an effective and enlightened technique of prayer which has the potential to reveal the truth of the Adjuster’s indwelling and even a face to face experience with him. Only the primitive alter ego of the child is fictitious. The alter-ego is meant to evolve, just like everything that’s real.
91:3.4 The simple prayer of faith evidences a mighty evolution in human experience whereby the ancient conversations with the fictitious symbol of the alter ego of primitive religion have become exalted to the level of communion with the spirit of the Infinite and to that of a bona fide consciousness of the reality of the eternal God and Paradise Father of all intelligent creation.
91:3.7 Enlightened prayer must recognize not only an external and personal God but also an internal and impersonal Divinity, the indwelling Adjuster. It is altogether fitting that man, when he prays, should strive to grasp the concept of the Universal Father on Paradise; but the more effective technique for most practical purposes will be to revert to the concept of a near-by alter ego, just as the primitive mind was wont to do, and then to recognize that the idea of this alter ego has evolved from a mere fiction to the truth of God’s indwelling mortal man in the factual presence of the Adjuster so that man can talk face to face, as it were, with a real and genuine and divine alter ego that indwells him and is the very presence and essence of the living God, the Universal Father.
I’m not quibbling with you but the only confusion I see is in you saying that there’s such a thing as being in communion with a presence that’s fictitious. The alter ego is not a presence, it’s a figment of the imagination.
(196:3.34) The great challenge to modern man is to achieve better communication with the divine Monitor that dwells within the human mind. Man’s greatest adventure in the flesh consists in the well-balanced and sane effort to advance the borders of self-consciousness out through the dim realms of embryonic soul-consciousness in a wholehearted effort to reach the borderland of spirit-consciousness—contact with the divine presence.
Enno, you seem adamant that making contact with the Adjuster is most important to you. If you’ve made contact with the superconscious level of your mind and have talked face to face with your Adjuster, how did you do that? TUB tells us the best technique is the alter ego approach, but if you’ve found a better approach, it would be generous of you to share it with everyone. Also, why do you think TUB refers to the Adjuster as a divine alter ego if an alter ego is fictitious. Are you saying the Adjuster is fictitious? Are you saying that TUB is giving us wrong information? Just what are you saying?
91:3.7 Enlightened prayer must recognize not only an external and personal God but also an internal and impersonal Divinity, the indwelling Adjuster. It is altogether fitting that man, when he prays, should strive to grasp the concept of the Universal Father on Paradise; but the more effective technique for most practical purposes will be to revert to the concept of a near-by alter ego, just as the primitive mind was wont to do, and then to recognize that the idea of this alter ego has evolved from a mere fiction to the truth of God’s indwelling mortal man in the factual presence of the Adjuster so that man can talk face to face, as it were, with a real and genuine and divine alter ego that indwells him and is the very presence and essence of the living God, the Universal Father.
Went back to the beginning on this and Bonita suggested the list of parables may not be complete:
I’ll add my favorite: partly because it was acted out, demonstrated in real life situation and all but the betrayer really got it I believe: the parabel of the footwashing.
well maybe they kind of got it
i did.
What I’m adamant about is to reverse the trend. The trend of “no you can’t” personally and collectively, that was initiated about two hundred thousand years ago. The Lanonandek started this trend when he maintained that God’s plan for the destiny of mortal ascenders was a fiction. This corrupt seed he planted germinated into the long sordid history of rebellion, which continues to poison the weary as if this negativism was a part of our DNA.
But now we are learning to otherwise embrace the truth of “yes we can” which some throughout history already realized in the flesh too, due to their wholehearted loyalty to God and the personal revelation they experienced, to achieve the requisite contact with the divine presence in order to see eye to eye with God, see it from his perspective and be a part of fulfilling the Father’s plan for his children.
(132:6.1) “You know, Ganid, most human beings are like the lost child. They spend much of their time crying in fear and suffering in sorrow when, in very truth, they are but a short distance from safety and security, even as this child was only a little way from home.”
I believe I asked four specific questions Enno, which you have not answered. Or perhaps, refuse to answer? Again, you’ve managed to derail a discussion and turn it around to be about you! Amazing! Can you possibly admit that you are wrong to diss the alter ego technique advocated in TUB? No, I suppose not.
- If you’ve made contact with the superconscious level of your mind and have talked face to face with your Adjuster, how did you do that?
- Why do you think TUB refers to the Adjuster as a divine alter ego if an alter ego is fictitious?
- Are you saying the Adjuster is fictitious?
- Are you saying that TUB is giving us wrong information?
The foot washing stories, both the weeping harlot and the last supper versions, I don’t think are parables. What would make them parables? I think they are merely opportunities Jesus took to teach, but not in parable form. I could be wrong. If you all think both are parables, tell me why. Somewhere in this thread I provided a list from TUB as to what a parable is. Don’t have time to dig it up right now.
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