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So beliefs do NOT have consequences….only those choices, decisions, priorities, motives, and intentions which are modified and determined BY beliefs.
Honestly? Tell that to Adam and Eve, who did not default due to a lack of good motives and high intentions.
I believe it was impatience, not beliefs, that guided such tragedy to its ultimate outcomes and repercussions. And it most certainly was an ACT and not a belief that brought default of mission to the couple.
George…you have not commented on my observation that Lucifer’s claims about survival of mortal would indicate an inherently high percentage….don’t you think?
I don’t follow your reasoning. If 90-99% of everyone survives, then why would Lucifer bother to make automatic resurrection a part of his manifesto? His whole effort was to attack the government of Michael, not to agree with what it was currently doing. I mean, you can’t provoke righteous indignation without pointing to some egregious evil, can you?
Perhaps now you will offer a comment on how your assertion that everyone should survive differs from Lucifer’s assertion that everyone should survive. Oh, and you need not go into motives and intentions again, since that has already been addressed.
I believe it was impatience, not beliefs, that guided such tragedy to its ultimate outcomes and repercussions. And it most certainly was an ACT and not a belief that brought default of mission to the couple.
What are you talking about? Are you saying Eve did not believe she was doing something good when her action led to default? That she believed she was doing something good, but this belief had nothing to do with her action. That she acted impulsively out of mere impatience, like a five year old, without due consideration and forethought?
George…you have not commented on my observation that Lucifer’s claims about survival of mortal would indicate an inherently high percentage….don’t you think?
I don’t follow your reasoning. If 90-99% of everyone survives, then why would Lucifer bother to make automatic resurrection a part of his manifesto? His whole effort was to attack the government of Michael, not to agree with what it was currently doing. I mean, you can’t provoke righteous indignation without pointing to some egregious evil, can you?
Perhaps now you will offer a comment on how your assertion that everyone should survive differs from Lucifer’s assertion that everyone should survive. Oh, and you need not go into motives and intentions again, since that has already been addressed.
I gave my logic for his false claim….auto resurrection is an easier claim to make when there is already a high ratio of survival…still false but based on obvious evidence at least…a much better lie and far easier to believe. I don’t think Lucifer attempted to raise righteous indignation so much as confuse and challenge loyalties and deceive…and he was provided much time to promote his lies and deceptions with his brilliance and authority. And I would think him clever enough to use a high mortal survival rate to perpetuate his deceptions on the greater issues and claims. I have never asserted that everyone should or does survive George…now you’re putting words in my mouth. I claim there is empirical evidence throughout the UB that tadpole survival is both common and the goal of the ascension plan and the very purpose for the Mansion Worlds….and further that those who claim otherwise have not and cannot show such evidence in the UB and that such a message is the opposite of the message of hope and love and the friendly universe so universally presented in the UB. Are you now declaring otherwise?I gave my logic for his false claim….auto resurrection is an easier claim to make when there is already a high ratio of survival…still false but based on obvious evidence at least…a much better lie and far easier to believe.
Okay. Your theory is that because almost everyone survives, Lucifer attacked Michael by asserting that since not absolutely everyone survives, this is an egregious evil being perpetrated by his government. Oh, wait, you don’t think “Lucifer attempted to raise righteous indignation so much as confuse and challenge loyalties.” So he did not directly accuse Michael of egregious evil, but merely cultivated suspicions about Michael’s motives. And one way he did this was to insinuate that Michael is collaborating with the Ancients of Days, who come into Satania and unjustly extinguish the lives of those who are inherently immortal. “Most bitterly did he attack the right of the Ancients of Days—’foreign potentates’—to interfere in the affairs of the local systems and universes.” (53:3.4) But this direct and bitter attack on the Ancients of Days was not really an attempt to provoke righteous indignation, just a subtle and deceptive way to cleverly create confusion.
I seem to have really tied a knot in your tail there George. Perhaps I should retire for the weekend and regain my own better humor and equilibrium…and perhaps the conversation might get refocused and back on topic.
Lucifer and Caligastia were able to beguile others with their brilliance. Both are Sons of a higher standing and greater brilliance than angels. We’re told it doesn’t take depth of intellect to criticize and find fault, but does take brilliance of mind to deal with criticism and fault finding from others. Angels obviously failed to outwit their superiors. They also tell us that faith certainty is the best way to deal with the onslaught of deception. Sadly for the angels, they can grow weary in their faith certainty. The further they are from the source of their faith, the harder it is to maintain it since they are not Adjuster indwelt. They more easily have their ability to see the Father in the Creator Son clouded by what looks like a brilliant shiny and domineering personality. Supporting quotes below:
102:7.6 It requires no great depth of intellect to pick flaws, ask questions, or raise objections. But it does require brilliance of mind to answer these questions and solve these difficulties; faith certainty is the greatest technique for dealing with all such superficial contentions.
(361.1) 32:3.6 The farther down the scale of life we go, the more difficult it becomes to locate, with the eye of faith, the invisible Father. The lower creatures — and sometimes even the higher personalities — find it difficult always to envisage the Universal Father in his Creator Sons. And so, pending the time of their spiritual exaltation, when perfection of development will enable them to see God in person, they grow weary in progression, entertain spiritual doubts, stumble into confusion, and thus isolate themselves from the progressive spiritual aims of their time and universe. In this way they lose the ability to see the Father when beholding the Creator Son. The surest safeguard for the creature throughout the long struggle to attain the Father, during this time when inherent conditions make such attainment impossible, is tenaciously to hold on to the truth-fact of the Father’s presence in his Sons. Literally and figuratively, spiritually and personally, the Father and the Sons are one. It is a fact: He who has seen a Creator Son has seen the Father.
I don’t follow your reasoning. If 90-99% of everyone survives, then why would Lucifer bother to make automatic resurrection a part of his manifesto?
Lucifer said there is no such thing as God’s will so everyone survives to do whatever they want, whenever they want, however they want. Self-rule. There’s nothing other than the self with which to align one’s aspirations.
Don’t you think that automatic immortality removes personal responsibility for doing God’s will? Do you really believe that 90-99% of everyone you know, including yourself, will be executed for not doing God’s will? That’s extreme and a just a little Old Testament in flavor.
I seem to have really tied a knot in your tail there George. Perhaps I should retire for the weekend and regain my own better humor and equilibrium…
Take all the time you need and have a good weekend!
What are you talking about? Are you saying Eve did not believe she was doing something good when her action led to default? That she believed she was doing something good, but this belief had nothing to do with her action. That she acted impulsively out of mere impatience, like a five year old, without due consideration and forethought?
TUB says Eve was impatient:
(838.6) 74:8.14 The “golden age” is a myth, but Eden was a fact, and the Garden civilization was actually overthrown. Adam and Eve carried on in the Garden for one hundred and seventeen years when, through the impatience of Eve and the errors of judgment of Adam, they presumed to turn aside from the ordained way, speedily bringing disaster upon themselves and ruinous retardation upon the developmental progression of all Urantia.
(840.2) 75:1.6 Probably no Material Sons of Nebadon were ever faced with such a difficult and seemingly hopeless task as confronted Adam and Eve in the sorry plight of Urantia. But they would have sometime met with success had they been more farseeing and patient. Both of them, especially Eve, were altogether too impatient; they were not willing to settle down to the long, long endurance test. They wanted to see some immediate results, and they did, but the results thus secured proved most disastrous both to themselves and to their world.
75:3.6 Serapatatia was entirely loyal to the plan of building up a strong reserve of the violet race before attempting the world-wide upstepping of the confused peoples of Urantia. But this would require hundreds of years to consummate, and he was impatient; he wanted to see some immediate results — something in his own lifetime. He made it clear to Eve that Adam was oftentimes discouraged by the little that had been accomplished toward uplifting the world.
Don’t you think that automatic immortality removes personal responsibility for doing God’s will?
Of course it does. It is a great lie contained in Lucifer’s manifesto, as I grow somewhat tired of point out.
Do you really believe that 90-99% of everyone you know, including yourself, will be executed for not doing God’s will?
Honestly, this is a rather breath-taking distortion of everything I have said. Sort of like me asking you: If everyone survives, doesn’t this remove personal responsibility for doing God’s will?
I think it’s peculiar to call Lucifer’s indignation righteous. Where’s the righteousness in it? I don’t see it.
Honestly, this is a rather breath-taking distortion of everything I have said. Sort of like me asking you: If everyone survives, doesn’t this remove personal responsibility for doing God’s will?
Who said everyone survives? If you believe 90-99% of personalities are executed, chances are you, George, are toast, so what does it matter? Do whatever you want while you can.
I must say it’s hard to have a honest discussion with someone who is being intentionally obtuse. But have a good weekend!
George Park wrote:I must say it’s hard to have a honest discussion with someone who is being intentionally obtuse.Sorry? Are you saying I am dishonest AND stupid?
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