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I never eat broccoli, because my Mom forced me to eat cottage cheese.
Just kidding.
Thanks for your replies Keryn and Bonita. It gives me hope where sometimes it’s hard to have it.
we are commanded to consider these and seek out the inner light and not judge others harshly (as in claiming 90-99% of other souls are damned to oblivion by their unworthiness for soul survival by our own harsh – or twisted mathematical – calculations). Such claims are beyond evil/error in my opinion….it is the embrace of sinfulness to so judge an entire world and 7 billion souls unknown to us in such ways I think.
Who can read this Revelation of hope and declare 90-99% of all people are doomed? Who does that??!! Who might do that? THAT is the question! What perspective, what disappointment, what immaturity, what superiority would even allow such a belief….and then declare it as a reasoned proposition and defend it as true? I find it diabolical….as Bonita says, Luciferian even.
You have now declaimed that any who might suppose that perhaps as many as 90% of mortals may not survive are “beyond evil/error”, “embrace sinfulness,” are “diabolical,” and “Luciferian even.” I wonder why you think denouncing others as iniquitous rebels against the righteous government of God is an appropriate way to encourage discussion? I am interested in what percentage you judge would make someone less than a disciple of Lucifer. If someone supposed that 50% may not survive, would you consider that to be just an evil belief instead of a iniquitous one? If they supposed that less than 10% may not survive, would this cause you to withhold your righteous indignation?
But, of course, it is not about actual percentages. I get you are really just asserting that it is righteous, God-like, to believe that almost everyone survives and iniquitous, Luciferian, to believe that very few survive. But, what then do you make of the fact that Lucifer asserted that all beings would live eternally, if it were not for the unjust and arbitrary actions of the Ancients of Days. Was Lucifer asserting a righteous belief?
He (Lucifer) maintained that immortality was inherent in the system personalities, that resurrection was natural and automatic, and that all beings would live eternally except for the arbitrary and unjust acts of the executioners of the Ancients of Days. (53:3.5)
The fact that “about one third of the planetary angelic helpers” were attracted to Lucifer’s manifesto suggests they thought he was asserting a righteous belief. In retrospect, it turns out they were led astray by the brilliantly persuasive sophistry of Lucifer.
But, of course, it is not about actual percentages. I get you are really just asserting that it is righteous, God-like, to believe that almost everyone survives and iniquitous, Luciferian, to believe that very few survive. But, what then do you make of the fact that Lucifer asserted that all beings would live eternally, if it were not for the unjust and arbitrary actions of the Ancients of Days. Was Lucifer asserting a righteous belief? He (Lucifer) maintained that immortality was inherent in the system personalities, that resurrection was natural and automatic, and that all beings would live eternally except for the arbitrary and unjust acts of the executioners of the Ancients of Days. (53:3.5) The fact that “about one third of the planetary angelic helpers” were attracted to Lucifer’s manifesto suggests they thought he was asserting a righteous belief. In retrospect, it turns out they were led astray by the brilliantly persuasive sophistry of Lucifer.
Greetings George! Perhaps, as you say, my righteous indignation is inappropriate and not conducive to honest discussion. But then comparing my position to Lucifer’s declaration of false liberty seems likewise rather extreme and counter productive. Oh well…tadpoles, what are you going to do? But let us move forward to your points above. And let us consider the next quote after 53:3.5:
53:3.6 (604.1) 3. The attack upon the universal plan of ascendant mortal training. Lucifer maintained that far too much time and energy were expended upon the scheme of so thoroughly training ascending mortals in the principles of universe administration, principles which he alleged were unethical and unsound. He protested against the agelong program for preparing the mortals of space for some unknown destiny and pointed to the presence of the finaliter corps on Jerusem as proof that these mortals had spent ages of preparation for some destiny of pure fiction. With derision he pointed out that the finaliters had encountered a destiny no more glorious than to be returned to humble spheres similar to those of their origin. He intimated that they had been debauched by overmuch discipline and prolonged training, and that they were in reality traitors to their mortal fellows since they were now co-operating with the scheme of enslaving all creation to the fictions of a mythical eternal destiny for ascending mortals. He advocated that ascenders should enjoy the liberty of individual self-determination. He challenged and condemned the entire plan of mortal ascension as sponsored by the Paradise Sons of God and supported by the Infinite Spirit.
53:3.7 (604.2) And it was with such a Declaration of Liberty that Lucifer launched his orgy of darkness and death.
Perhaps we might begin with his motive contrasted with my own – Lucifer’s sophistry was to cast doubt on the fact of fusion and destiny and the existence of God so that he might declare himself as god over all. His motive was to deny the administration and rulers of the universes of time and declare there was no Paradise or Rulers of Time and Space…not even the Local Universe Creator had power or authority and was a liar and deceiver.
Hardly my motive or message George. I hope I have more clearly articulated an argument and position in opposition to a proposition itself and not the proposer. However, I confess I did demonize the minds that would propose how hopeless is the lot of mortal souls in this universe. I called it Luciferian….yes I did do that.
Let us consider that implication and accusation. Lucifer claimed that mortals had no glorious destiny and that the Mighty Messengers were liars as were all from the Local and Super and Central Universes who came from or had been to Paradise. Lucifer’s message was one of hopelessness too for the mortals of the realm.
I also think that if one were to apply logic and reason to the quote you proffer so earnestly, one must conclude that indeed the survival rate and ratio must be quite high indeed!!! In fact, so many souls survive (evidently) that Lucifer claimed such high survival rates and immortality itself “was inherent” and that “resurrection was natural and automatic”!!!!! Wouldn’t reason suggest to us that such a declaration would provide significant evidence of a very high mortal survival rate? Doesn’t that suggest that the “executioners” appeared to enforce rather random and arbitrary extinctions?
53:3.5 (603.6) He contended that the executioners of the Ancients of Days could be debarred from functioning in the local systems if the native beings would only assert their independence. He maintained that immortality was inherent in the system personalities, that resurrection was natural and automatic, and that all beings would live eternally except for the arbitrary and unjust acts of the executioners of the Ancients of Days.
And as the Revelation teaches so clearly and redundantly….such judgment and so-called execution is truly only final permission and authorization for self erasure and cosmic suicide….no light is ever extinguished by so-called execution. The very term Execute or Execution is rooted in Executive…it is simply an administrative function….not a damn beheading or hanging. Some interesting references to the key word “execution” in the Revelation:
Not one soul or one celestial is executed, ever, by anyone….a preposterous notion unfounded, if perpetuated by you George here. No. Not even the great traitor and deceiver and his fellow rebel leaders has been or will be “executed” George. But justice will allow them to eventually embrace non-reality and self adoration sufficiently for their own self chosen erasure.
117:4.4 (1283.6) The human personality can truly destroy individuality of creaturehood, and though all that was worth while in the life of such a cosmic suicide will persist, these qualities will not persist as an individual creature. The Supreme will again find expression in the creatures of the universes but never again as that particular person; the unique personality of a nonascender returns to the Supreme as a drop of water returns to the sea.
Me: please note it does not say this can be accomplished here on Urantia…or not so easily anyway:
195:7.10 (2079.5) The sincere effort of man to become a mechanist represents the tragic phenomenon of that man’s futile effort to commit intellectual and moral suicide. But he cannot do it.
Me here: So I will remain resolved to my contention that those who claim that soul survival is rare has personal problems of motive or understanding that is unfortunate and dangerous and are no friends to the pilgrims of time who are sufficiently plagued by uncertainties, doubts, confusions, and fears and that the UB is a gift intended to deliver exactly the opposite of news – it is a message of hope and good cheer and devotion to the upliftment of all people of every generation and situation.
And I hope my intention and sincerity are also obvious….to cheer on my fellow tadpoles in the pursuit of truth, beauty, goodness, and our shared eternal destiny!
Greetings right back at you, Bradly! Apparently, you have no intention of moderating or retracting your accusations that those who do not believe that almost everyone survives are beyond evil/error, iniquitous, diabolical, and Luciferian. Seems like a rather harsh and unforgiving attitude to have toward your fellows, but, oh well, so be it. Tadpoles and all that, as you might say.
I regret you so seriously misinterpreted the question I asked as to think I was impugning your motives. It is actually a real question, not a trap, a trick, or an attack. You do assert that almost everyone should survive, and Lucifer asserted that everyone should survive. Even you have to admit the close similarity between these two assertions. But, obviously, the same belief can be held for entirely different reasons. I assure you I do not think your motives are anything like Lucifer’s, just as I don’t think that those who wonder if significantly less than everyone survives have Luciferian motives.
But belief, real belief, has consequences, regardless of the motives behind it. Under the persuasive influence of Caligastia, Eve eventually came to believe that she could do a good thing for the world and speed up evolution by mating with Serapatatia. But it was all a cruel and clever deception to thwart the planned biological uplift of Urantia. Despite her high and idealistic motives, her action led to default. The very best of intentions does not nullify the real life consequences of unwise actions.
Everything in Lucifer’s manifesto, from first to last without exception, is a deception, a lie, and a fraud. Part of his manifesto is the assertion that everyone should survive and would survive, were it not for the Ancients of Days, those unjust “foreign potentates.” This assertion must, therefore, be just another false belief perpetuated by Lucifer to deceive others. And after all that has happened in Satania, it would be foolish to give credence to anything he said or asserted, for there is no truth in him.
George….thank you for your patience with me and your persistence in seeking moderation of my rhetoric/tone and your pursuit of understanding the Revelation and your kindness/friendship in constructing a bridge in our discussion to gain the other side of this specific issue.
Just to be clear….I truly don’t know how many or what ratio of mortals survive….I only apply what empirical evidence I find in the UB where I have discovered plenty of support for a ‘generous’ estimation. Children do it, barbarians do it, the very first humans did it (lots of them). We are clearly told ignorance, doubt, confusion, false belief, evil/error, materialism, self importance, immaturity, and even sin itself cannot prevent it. We are taught that soul grows (or can) independent of mind and knowledge and belief and that faith is an auto-reflex condition inherent in the circuitry of mortal mind ministry and that the inner yearn and the urge to find gods to explain the self awareness and the awe and wonder we have of life and the inner AND outer worlds. We are taught of the nearly endless mercy credits and the abiding love and adoration of our Creators for their created children and their love for one another and the patience and gentleness and kindness employed to deliver the ascension experience and eternal adventure to all beings in this friendly universe. We are told that even that slightest flicker is all that is required to survive this material life and that is clearly contrasted with the far more rigorous tests for eternal fusion to come….an articulation and distinction of profound meaning and value I think.
So you see….I have found plenty of evidence within the UB for my optimism regarding the soul’s chance for survival from this world. The question of greater interest to me is whether the mortal born soul that arrives on the Mansion Worlds with but a flicker can successfully penetrate the Circles of Progress required for fusion. What is that struggle like? Wouldn’t it be easier there than here to learn and grow and shed the tadpole’s tail and gills for the legs and lungs of frogdom? Or not?
Another ponderment of mine is how is the survival ratio changed over time and through the mortal epochs? And especially, what’s the difference between normal worlds with Prince and Staff and the Material Son and Daughter and the Garden and the knowledge of the universe and the examples of celestials on-planet and those worlds darkened by the loss of such material ministry? It would seem logical that the difference in survivor ratios between the earlier and the later epochs would be great, especially as life expectancy grows into centuries and on-world fusion/translation becomes more and more common. And that difference (if any) between worlds cursed by rebellion and those not would likewise be great. But I wonder.
I notice that Urantia’s story seems to be one of great forces of compensational effect to overcome such obvious disparities….what is lacking in this way is overcome in that way…..a real and deliberate agency and acts of equilibrium ministry and resulting ministry of effect. While not specifically told to us in the UB, I surmise those ministries of equilibrium and adjustment to guide each world through the mortal epochs of time to the inevitable certainties of Light and Life for each mortal world are similar throughout the universes of time and space…and that Urantia is no exception to this rule.
So….NO…..I do not claim any knowledge or firm belief in THE ratio of survivors to mortal borns who manage to self-destruct in this short life and I don’t know how that might change through the epochs or as affected by rebellion….all a mystery to me.
But I will say this: The more I know God and discover truth, beauty, and goodness….the more confident I am of his great love and tender mercy and the more of him and his love I see and find in his children around me and the more certain I am of our shared destiny in this friendly universe.
I would also say that THIS is the good news and gospel of Jesus and of the UB – we are God’s children and we are safe in God’s love and patience and mercy and kindness and care in this friendly universe.
And further….that those who say and teach and preach otherwise are no friends to the gospel or our world or God’s children in their voices of doubt, fear, angst, suspicion, paranoia, creed, doctrines, false beliefs, warnings, and mistrust of God’s love for his children.
I grew up amongst such voices. I find them abhorrent and diabolical…..whether their intent is mean or not in no way differentiates their message and their effects upon others. And ANY who raise the Fifth Epochal Revelation as ANY form of such drivel of doubt and dire warning of doom is a mighty poor student and no friend or believer in the Revelation we share.
Thanks again George. It’s been an interesting detour in our study of Religion In Human Experience. A very relevant one. I have learned and am still learning in the UB how very different religious experience is from my understanding prior to the UB. There are so many elements that are inherently hard wired into our very being. So many agents and agencies of ministry. How faith expressions can be so reflexive and profoundly effective without knowledge and even with false belief as faith’s companions. How soul can grow and worship occur even without the awareness of mortal mind.
In the church of my youth….one had to KNOW very specific things and DO very specific things or be damned to eternal suffering. And if we knew and did those specific things then we were ‘saved’ from damnation and awoke in heaven perfected in the angelic state for an eternity of……I have no idea. There was no progressive adventure taught to me. This I think is the fable and falsehood that some UB students simply cannot divorce themselves from….they cannot distinguish between the perfected state and the tadpole survival. We know that even fusion itself is not yet perfected but merely a metamorphic and progressive stage of development and that perfecting takes so much more time and growth yet and that our destiny includes endless experience and wisdom improvement forevermore.
This is key I think….religious experience is endless. The universe of universes now and those still to come are all designed and developed for this endless experience for those of us born in time and those of us born upon the lowliest estate of being, the material worlds. And God provides great time and opportunity for the children of time to gain adequate experience and knowledge and wisdom and skill to enjoy and participate in this endless adventure. And the adventure begins with our first breath!! Religion In Human Experience begins then too!!
God does not judge us or condemn us….he loves us and cherishes each of us as a new and unique expression of Religion In Human Experience. I doubt God fails in his love and ministry to his children in great numbers….no matter the world or the mortal epoch or rebellion or not or child or barbarian or fool or error prone or self important or material focused dummy. I think such harsh judgments of others is a very human behavior…..one we are undoubtedly forgiven for as well.
So…is the UB good news or not? Is it good news to declare and proclaim and defend that few are worthy in Father’s Kingdom of the Father’s love and mercy? Definitely not. For myself, I will remain optimistic for myself and my fellows – all – without imposing my meaures of worthiness upon others. And I will continue to speak out in opposition to those I consider fear mongers and purveyors of doubt….especially those who try and use the Revelation for such dastardly designs. Perhaps I’ll lose my edge in time to come. For now, perhaps a little passion and righteous indignation is not so misplaced. We shall see.
Again….please feel free to move back or forward in text and to take any related tangent you may wish to explore as related to Paper 100. Below, we are given fair warning as to the inherent capacity for mischief in the human mind. We are wired for discernment, insight, experiential wisdom acquirement, and transcendent abilities for transferring the seat of identity and give birth to soul and grow soul as parts of our religious experience. This inherently delivers opportunities for error and misjudgment and we experience much in-mind that is not real or true or Spirit led or delivered, and there are certain practices and beliefs and results that are to be regarded as dangerous.
100:5.4 (1099.2) Most of the spectacular phenomena associated with so-called religious conversions are entirely psychologic in nature, but now and then there do occur experiences which are also spiritual in origin. When the mental mobilization is absolutely total on any level of the psychic upreach toward spirit attainment, when there exists perfection of the human motivation of loyalties to the divine idea, then there very often occurs a sudden down-grasp of the indwelling spirit to synchronize with the concentrated and consecrated purpose of the superconscious mind of the believing mortal. And it is such experiences of unified intellectual and spiritual phenomena that constitute the conversion which consists in factors over and above purely psychologic involvement.
100:5.5 (1099.3) But emotion alone is a false conversion; one must have faith as well as feeling. To the extent that such psychic mobilization is partial, and in so far as such human-loyalty motivation is incomplete, to that extent will the experience of conversion be a blended intellectual, emotional, and spiritual reality.
100:5.6 (1099.4) If one is disposed to recognize a theoretical subconscious mind as a practical working hypothesis in the otherwise unified intellectual life, then, to be consistent, one should postulate a similar and corresponding realm of ascending intellectual activity as the superconscious level, the zone of immediate contact with the indwelling spirit entity, the Thought Adjuster. The great danger in all these psychic speculations is that visions and other so-called mystic experiences, along with extraordinary dreams, may be regarded as divine communications to the human mind. In times past, divine beings have revealed themselves to certain God-knowing persons, not because of their mystic trances or morbid visions, but in spite of all these phenomena.
100:5.7 (1099.5) In contrast with conversion-seeking, the better approach to the morontia zones of possible contact with the Thought Adjuster would be through living faith and sincere worship, wholehearted and unselfish prayer. Altogether too much of the uprush of the memories of the unconscious levels of the human mind has been mistaken for divine revelations and spirit leadings.
But belief, real belief, has consequences, regardless of the motives behind it.
It is faith that has consequences and there can only be one motive behind faith. Beliefs are always limiting and binding.
101:8.1 Faith is a living attribute of genuine personal religious experience. One believes truth, admires beauty, and reverences goodness, but does not worship them; such an attitude of saving faith is centered on God alone, who is all of these personified and infinitely more.
101:8.2 Belief is always limiting and binding; faith is expanding and releasing. Belief fixates, faith liberates.
What Lucifer failed to address in his Manifesto is the role the Adjusters play in survival. He never mentions them, probably because he does not believe in a First Person of Deity who gifts them. In fact, at the roll call of justice it is the failure of the Adjuster to return to the previously indwelt mortal mind which sets off the procedures of eventual execution.
(1247.6) 113:6.8 The technique of justice demands that personal or group guardians shall respond to the dispensational roll call in behalf of all nonsurviving personalities. The Adjusters of such nonsurvivors do not return, and when the rolls are called, the seraphim respond, but the Adjusters make no answer. This constitutes the “resurrection of the unjust,” in reality the formal recognition of the cessation of creature existence.
We also know that if all the Adjusters depart, this world will devolve into primitive chaos. Lucifer clearly did not understand the role the Adjusters play. When he contradicted the role faith plays, and instead supported self beliefs, the world became chaotic. Lucifer was all about beliefs while denying faith. Faith is alive, beliefs are not.
109:4.4 If the Adjusters indwelling the minds of the inhabitants of Urantia were to be withdrawn, the world would slowly return to many of the scenes and practices of the men of primitive times; the divine Monitors are one of the real potentials of advancing civilization.
I notice that Urantia’s story seems to be one of great forces of compensational effect to overcome such obvious disparities….what is lacking in this way is overcome in that way…..a real and deliberate agency and acts of equilibrium ministry and resulting ministry of effect. While not specifically told to us in the UB, I surmise those ministries of equilibrium and adjustment to guide each world through the mortal epochs of time to the inevitable certainties of Light and Life for each mortal world are similar throughout the universes of time and space…and that Urantia is no exception to this rule.
They do tell us that since the Spirit of Truth the rebellion and default are of little consequence to us.
34:7.6 Jesus showed mankind the new way of mortal living whereby human beings may very largely escape the dire consequences of the Caligastic rebellion and most effectively compensate for the deprivations resulting from the Adamic default. “The spirit of the life of Christ Jesus has made us free from the law of animal living and the temptations of evil and sin.” “This is the victory that overcomes the flesh, even your faith.”
(139:3.2) This able apostle was a temperamental contradiction; he seemed really to possess two natures, both of which were actuated by strong feelings. He was particularly vehement when his indignation was once fully aroused. He had a fiery temper when once it was adequately provoked, and when the storm was over, he was always wont to justify and excuse his anger under the pretense that it was wholly a manifestation of righteous indignation. Except for these periodic upheavals of wrath, James’s personality was much like that of Andrew. He did not have Andrew’s discretion or insight into human nature, but he was a much better public speaker. Next to Peter, unless it was Matthew, James was the best public orator among the twelve.
I take to heart what is said above about James. I’m much like him when it comes to being righteously indignant. It’s been hard to control sometimes, but I’m progressing away from it more and more.
I now liken righteous indignation like I do to getting angry. You know, like hurling a stone into a hornet’s nest. I don’t like getting stung.
But that’s not to say there isn’t a time and place for it, because there is sometimes. Which is when the pain of being stung is experienced too.
But the older I get, the more I realize that there is usually a better way to handle situations where that urge to be indignant raises its head. I’ve found that giving myself more time calms me down. Because impatience always gets me.
Lately when I’ve failed to control myself, I always see the way I could have handled the situation better in retrospect. Besides, whoever it is that gets my ire going, what is always lacking on my part is the inability to take the time that’s needed to widen the horizon in order to see what’s behind the proverbial “cave dweller” in front of me.
Anyway, perhaps this is just another part of the Religion in Human Experience I’m participating in.
Yes Van. I very well know what you say here. Tolerance is one of the 11 fruits of the Spirit. Its difficult to be tolerant and simultaneously impatient. We are to be tolerant because we are still learning and it is true of others. Given more time as you say above we are becoming better masters of self. That is a worthy self project!
Your growth is praiseworthy!
But belief, real belief, has consequences, regardless of the motives behind it.
It is faith that has consequences and there can only be one motive behind faith. Beliefs are always limiting and binding.
101:8.1 Faith is a living attribute of genuine personal religious experience. One believes truth, admires beauty, and reverences goodness, but does not worship them; such an attitude of saving faith is centered on God alone, who is all of these personified and infinitely more. 101:8.2 Belief is always limiting and binding; faith is expanding and releasing. Belief fixates, faith liberates.
Me here: Yes….so interesting how belief and faith are both connected and disconnected….how wrong beliefs can be and yet can there be faith and religious experience and spiritualization. Truly amazing. Belief (accurate or not) must be acted upon to become any form of faith expression. If our beliefs do not adjust our motives, intentions, priorities, and choices, then it is a meaningless and powerless belief indeed. Since beliefs are always inaccurate and incomplete to a lesser or greater degree (and thus always “limiting and binding”), then it is proof of both ignorance and prejudice or their very real potential.
Beliefs, like knowledge and understanding and perspective must be transcended to make way and room for greater and expanding knowledge, experience, and truth…all of which will require adjustments to beliefs.
So beliefs do NOT have consequences….only those choices, decisions, priorities, motives, and intentions which are modified and determined BY beliefs. Beliefs have no consequences….but every act and decision does certainly have repercussions or effects or results for us to examine and discern the meanings and values to be found thereby and therein.
Beliefs have no bearing on reality….only on our response to perceived reality. The more reality oriented our perceptions and the more reality oriented our responses then the more we grow. And yet growth and progress can and does occur in those of us who suffer utter ignorance and false beliefs. How is that possible? Religion In Human Experience is a functional and progressive reality on its own and of its own volition and is so or can be so without our cognitive cooperation apparently.
Thanks Bonita!
What Lucifer failed to address in his Manifesto is the role the Adjusters play in survival. He never mentions them, probably because he does not believe in a First Person of Deity who gifts them.
I think it goes much, much farther than this. Everything in his manifesto is a malicious and self-serving lie, from his declaration that the Father does not exist, to his assertion that everyone is inherently immortal and “resurrection is natural and automatic.” Despite the fact it is lies all the way down, Lucifer somehow managed to persuade “about a third of the planetary angelic helpers” to transfer their loyalty from Michael to himself. I still can’t understand how this could have happened. Why were so many angels, who are so much more spiritual, intelligent, and experienced than we are, who were citizens in good standing in the kingdom of God at the time, so thoroughly deceived that they willingly abandoned their loyalty to Michael? How did Lucifer manage to so successfully poison their faith in Michael, their acknowledged creator-father?
George….I think the answer to the question about angels (and others) is provided in text…it has to do with loyalty to one’s superiors and the great confusions caused by the disloyalty of others….a rather unnatural and unusual occurrence in the heavenly abode. Errors and greater and lesser wisdom and experience are all normal enough….but not lies and deceit and rebellion – very unusual!
53:6.2 (606.5) At the outbreak of rebellion on Jerusem the head of the seraphic hosts joined the Lucifer cause. This no doubt explains why such a large number of the fourth order, the system administrator seraphim, went astray. The seraphic leader was spiritually blinded by the brilliant personality of Lucifer; his charming ways fascinated the lower orders of celestial beings. They simply could not comprehend that it was possible for such a dazzling personality to go wrong.
53:7.6 (608.2) Of the supreme order of seraphim, not an angel was lost, but a considerable group of the next order, the superior, were deceived and ensnared. Likewise a few of the third or supervisor order of angels were misled. But the terrible breakdown came in the fourth group, the administrator angels, those seraphim who are normally assigned to the duties of the system capitals. Manotia saved almost two thirds of them, but slightly over one third followed their chief into the rebel ranks. One third of all the Jerusem cherubim attached to the administrator angels were lost with their disloyal seraphim.
George…you have not commented on my observation that Lucifer’s claims about survival of mortals would indicate an inherently high percentage….don’t you think?
While I agree that the entire Manifesto was a lie and deception for self serving purposes, I am also reminded of an old and favorite saying (by Twain I think – or was it Will Rogers?) – “Just because a fool says the earth is round don’t make it flat!”
Lucifer apparently was expressing the obvious when he falsely declared that survival was automatic and inherent….the obvious being that there must be significant evidentiary cause and example to believe it is indeed common…and not unusual…..otherwise, wouldn’t a blatant and obvious falsehood as this one work against his aim and ends? It is a fact that the best and most beguiling lies contain demonstrable truth and fact. Would it be so unusual if some of Lucifer’s lies also contained some elements of apparent fact or truth, the better to deceive?
Certainly, I have no idea….just a reasonable and interesting perspective on the lies of Lucifer I think.
So beliefs do NOT have consequences….only those choices, decisions, priorities, motives, and intentions which are modified and determined BY beliefs.
Honestly? Tell that to Adam and Eve, who did not default due to a lack of good motives and high intentions.
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