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Our differences in perspective and ideas are NOT important at all. Our unity in spirit IS important! If we do not engage each other personally the spirit cannot experience unity. Otherwise, these discussions are just sterile intellectualizations. Our persons must tackle each other in order that the spirits be known. The boxer hugs his opponent with great love of spirit at the end of a brutal fight. They disagreed about who was the better fighter but each was grateful to have had the chance to fight. In the end they learned more about each other and themselves than would otherwise be possible. Compare that to a neighbor with whom you have polite dealings for years across the fence but you never really get to know in spirit so that there may be a real unity. The boxers beat each other brains out, literally, yet there is no anger in the ring and no fear. If anger enters into the ring the angry opponent is sure to lose. If fear enters the ring, the fearful opponent is sure to lose. Each boxer know this and refrains from getting offended by a right upper cut. Should he become defensive, he will surely lose the fight on the ropes. If I have landed a few punches in the head, I hope that I was of service in helping you raise your guard to better yourself. If I have hit below the belt, that was not my intention. We all have bruises from life. The important thing is that we heal and learn from them. But I cannot engage you or anyone else impersonally. I cannot box with a shadow.
Powerful statement!
Ah yes, the old “I beat you because I care” explanation, too many women are already familiar with that one, us men see it thrown around less often. But there’s nothing of Jesus in “landing a few punches in the head” on others, rhetorically or otherwise, much less in then pretending it’s all just a kindly service so they can “learn” from it. By looking at the exemplary example of Jesus’ life and teachings, his kindness and grace, it puts all the alternative displays in full contrast.
tas wrote: Ah yes, the old “I beat you because I care” explanation, too many women are already familiar with that one, us men see it thrown around less often. But there’s nothing of Jesus in “landing a few punches in the head” on others, rhetorically or otherwise, much less in then pretending it’s all just a kindly service so they can “learn” from it. By looking at the exemplary example of Jesus’ life and teachings, his kindness and grace, it puts all the alternative displays in full contrast.On point, tas. Thanks.Our differences in perspective and ideas are NOT important at all. Our unity in spirit IS important! If we do not engage each other personally the spirit cannot experience unity. Otherwise, these discussions are just sterile intellectualizations. Our persons must tackle each other in order that the spirits be known. The boxer hugs his opponent with great love of spirit at the end of a brutal fight. They disagreed about who was the better fighter but each was grateful to have had the chance to fight. In the end they learned more about each other and themselves than would otherwise be possible. Compare that to a neighbor with whom you have polite dealings for years across the fence but you never really get to know in spirit so that there may be a real unity. The boxers beat each other brains out, literally, yet there is no anger in the ring and no fear. If anger enters into the ring the angry opponent is sure to lose. If fear enters the ring, the fearful opponent is sure to lose. Each boxer know this and refrains from getting offended by a right upper cut. Should he become defensive, he will surely lose the fight on the ropes. If I have landed a few punches in the head, I hope that I was of service in helping you raise your guard to better yourself. If I have hit below the belt, that was not my intention. We all have bruises from life. The important thing is that we heal and learn from them. But I cannot engage you or anyone else impersonally. I cannot box with a shadow.
Powerful statement!
Ah yes, the old “I beat you because I care” explanation, too many women are already familiar with that one, us men see it thrown around less often. But there’s nothing of Jesus in “landing a few punches in the head” on others, rhetorically or otherwise, much less in then pretending it’s all just a kindly service so they can “learn” from it. By looking at the exemplary example of Jesus’ life and teachings, his kindness and grace, it puts all the alternative displays in full contrast.
That’s is not what I saw in that statement. Don’t know how you arrived at that, but to each his own *shrugs*
BB
tas wrote: Ah yes, the old “I beat you because I care” explanation, too many women are already familiar with that one, us men see it thrown around less often. But there’s nothing of Jesus in “landing a few punches in the head” on others, rhetorically or otherwise, much less in then pretending it’s all just a kindly service so they can “learn” from it. By looking at the exemplary example of Jesus’ life and teachings, his kindness and grace, it puts all the alternative displays in full contrast.On point, tas. Thanks.A truly pathetic reply, unworthy of further comment.135:4.5 It was the influence of Elijah that caused John to adopt his methods of direct and blunt assault upon the sins and vices of his contemporaries. He sought to dress like Elijah, and he endeavored to talk like Elijah; in every outward aspect he was like the olden prophet. He was just such a stalwart and picturesque child of nature, just such a fearless and daring preacher of righteousness. John was not illiterate, he did well know the Jewish sacred writings, but he was hardly cultured. He was a clear thinker, a powerful speaker, and a fiery denunciator. He was hardly an example to his age, but he was an eloquent rebuke.
135:6.7 John was a heroic but tactless preacher. One day when he was preaching and baptizing on the west bank of the Jordan, a group of Pharisees and a number of Sadducees came forward and presented themselves for baptism. Before leading them down into the water, John, addressing them as a group said: “Who warned you to flee, as vipers before the fire, from the wrath to come? I will baptize you, but I warn you to bring forth fruit worthy of sincere repentance if you would receive the remission of your sins. Tell me not that Abraham is your father. I declare that God is able of these twelve stones here before you to raise up worthy children for Abraham. And even now is the ax laid to the very roots of the trees. Every tree that brings not forth good fruit is destined to be cut down and cast into the fire.” (The twelve stones to which he referred were the reputed memorial stones set up by Joshua to commemorate the crossing of the “twelve tribes” at this very point when they first entered the promised land.)
135:6.8 John conducted classes for his disciples, in the course of which he instructed them in the details of their new life and endeavored to answer their many questions. He counseled the teachers to instruct in the spirit as well as the letter of the law. He instructed the rich to feed the poor; to the tax gatherers he said: “Extort no more than that which is assigned you.” To the soldiers he said: “Do no violence and exact nothing wrongfully—be content with your wages.” While he counseled all: “Make ready for the end of the age—the kingdom of heaven is at hand.”
Perhaps if John had lived today he would have been beheaded, rhetorically.
nelsong wrote: Taking revenge for something like this is the human responseRevenge may be a human response but Jesus taught us to live better than that. He said the following:
145:3.4 The handful of Jews in the Capernaum synagogue were not the only beings to hear that momentous closing statement of Jesus’ sermon: “Hate is the shadow of fear; revenge the mask of cowardice.” Neither could his hearers forget his blessed words, declaring, “Man is the son of God, not a child of the devil.”
Jesus actually lived what he preached. He was victim of the ultimate betrayal from the “son of revenge” (182:1.5), yet his words were in response were words of forgiveness. Jesus was not a coward.
188:5.6 The triumph of the death on the cross is all summed up in the spirit of Jesus’ attitude toward those who assailed him. He made the cross an eternal symbol of the triumph of love over hate and the victory of truth over evil when he prayed, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” That devotion of love was contagious throughout a vast universe; the disciples caught it from their Master. The very first teacher of his gospel who was called upon to lay down his life in this service, said, as they stoned him to death, “Lay not this sin to their charge.”
tas wrote: Ah yes, the old “I beat you because I care” explanation, too many women are already familiar with that one, us men see it thrown around less often. But there’s nothing of Jesus in “landing a few punches in the head” on others, rhetorically or otherwise, much less in then pretending it’s all just a kindly service so they can “learn” from it. By looking at the exemplary example of Jesus’ life and teachings, his kindness and grace, it puts all the alternative displays in full contrast.Thanks for that Tas. I think tough love is defined a bit differently than beating the crap out of someone. Isn’t tough love saying no to a child when they want to do something that will hurt them, like playing with matches or climbing up the shelving? Tough love means loving the way a wise father would love a foolish child. I don’t think a father gets to know his child better by beating the snot out of him. Just sayin’.
Revenge may be a human response but Jesus taught us to live better than that. He said the following:
True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken. (53:9.4)
It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations. when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel’s plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. (59:9.4)
Jesus actually lived what he preached. He was victim of the ultimate betrayal from the “son of revenge”(182:1.5), yet his words were in response were words of forgiveness. Jesus was not a coward.
188:5.6 The triumph of the death on the cross is all summed up in the spirit of Jesus’ attitude toward those who assailed him. He made the cross an eternal symbol of the triumph of love over hate and the victory of truth over evil when he prayed, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” That devotion of love was contagious throughout a vast universe; the disciples caught it from their Master. The very first teacher of his gospel who was called upon to lay down his life in this service, said, as they stoned him to death, “Lay not this sin to their charge.”
Getting back to this quote on loyalty:
39:4.11 What is loyalty? It is the fruit of an intelligent appreciation of universe brotherhood; one could not take so much and give nothing. As you ascend the personality scale, first you learn to be loyal, then to love, then to be filial, and then may you be free; but not until you are a finaliter, not until you have attained perfection of loyalty, can you self-realize finality of liberty.
First we learn loyalty. Loyalty leads to love. Love teaches us to be filial. And once we learn to be filial, we can be free. What is it about being filial that makes us free? I’ve been thinking about this for years and I think it has to do with the difference between true and false liberty.
Paper 54 Section 1 is devoted to that topic and it describes true liberty as being regardful of universe fraternity and divine obligations. Isn’t this being filial? Isn’t universe fraternity the same as universe brotherhood in the above quote? And the admonition that one could not take so much without giving back fulfills the regard for divine obligations. Loyalty that ascends the personality scale, progressing toward love, becoming filial and finally experiencing true liberty is associated with genuine self-respect and self-control (54:1.6) leading to altruistic service of one’s brothers.
54:1.4 Liberty is nonexistent apart from cosmic reality, and all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships.
169:1.6 “A certain man had two sons; one, the younger, was lighthearted and carefree, always seeking for a good time and shirking responsibility, while his older brother was serious, sober, hard-working, and willing to bear responsibility. Now these two brothers did not get along well together; they were always quarreling and bickering. The younger lad was cheerful and vivacious, but indolent and unreliable; the older son was steady and industrious, at the same time self-centered, surly, and conceited. The younger son enjoyed play but shunned work; the older devoted himself to work but seldom played. This association became so disagreeable that the younger son came to his father and said: `Father, give me the third portion of your possessions which would fall to me and allow me to go out into the world to seek my own fortune.’ And when the father heard this request, knowing how unhappy the young man was at home and with his older brother, he divided his property, giving the youth his share.
169:1.7 “Within a few weeks the young man gathered together all his funds and set out upon a journey to a far country, and finding nothing profitable to do which was also pleasurable, he soon wasted all his inheritance in riotous living. And when he had spent all, there arose a prolonged famine in that country, and he found himself in want. And so, when he suffered hunger and his distress was great, he found employment with one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into the fields to feed swine. And the young man would fain have filled himself with the husks which the swine ate, but no one would give him anything.
169:1.8 “One day, when he was very hungry, he came to himself and said: `How many hired servants of my father have bread enough and to spare while I perish with hunger, feeding swine off here in a foreign country! I will arise and go to my father, and I will say to him: Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no more worthy to be called your son; only be willing to make me one of your hired servants.’ And when the young man had reached this decision, he arose and started out for his father’s house.
169:1.9 “Now this father had grieved much for his son; he had missed the cheerful, though thoughtless, lad. This father loved this son and was always on the lookout for his return, so that on the day he approached his home, even while he was yet afar off, the father saw him and, being moved with loving compassion, ran out to meet him, and with affectionate greeting he embraced and kissed him. And after they had thus met, the son looked up into his father’s tearful face and said:
Father, I have sinned against heaven and in your sight; I am no more worthy to be called a son'—but the lad did not find opportunity to complete his confession because the<strong> overjoyed father</strong> said to the servants who had by this time come running up:Bring quickly his best robe, the one I have saved, and put it on him and put the son’s ring on his hand and fetch sandals for his feet.’169:1.10 “And then, after the happy father had led the footsore and weary lad into the house, he called to his servants: `Bring on the fatted calf and kill it, and let us eat and make merry, for this my son was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.’ And they all gathered about the father to rejoice with him over the restoration of his son.
169:1.11 “About this time, while they were celebrating, the<strong> elder son</strong> came in from his day’s work in the field, and as he drew near the house, he heard the music and the dancing. And when he came up to the back door, he called out one of the servants and inquired as to the meaning of all this festivity. And then said the servant: <strong>`Your long-lost brother has come home, and your father has killed the fatted calf to rejoice over his son’s safe return. Come in that you also may greet your brother and receive him back into your father’s house.’
169:1.12 “But when the older brother heard this, he was so hurt and angry he would not go into the house. When his father heard of his resentment of the welcome of his younger brother, he went out to entreat him. But the older son would not yield to his father’s persuasion. He answered his father, saying: `Here these many years have I served you, never transgressing the least of your commands, and yet you never gave me even a kid that I might make merry with my friends. I have remained here to care for you all these years, and you never made rejoicing over my<strong> faithful service</strong>, but when this your son returns, having squandered your substance with harlots, you make haste to kill the fatted calf and make merry over him.’
169:1.13 “Since this <strong>father truly loved both of his sons,</strong> he tried to<strong> reason with this older one</strong>: `But, my son, you have all the while been with me, and all this which I have is yours. You could have had a kid at any time you had made friends to share your merriment. But it is only proper that you should now join with me in being glad and merry because of your brother’s return. Think of it, my son, your brother was lost and is found; he has returned alive to us!’”
If all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships, then living loyally must mean maintaining a living connection to Deity. As I understand the living connection, it can’t be had without some kind of prayer. And by prayer I mean inner communication with Deity, not formal prayer. I think it is possible to maintain a constant connection, and this constancy is the crux of being loyal. We’re told that prayer to Jesus was ” . . . a sincere expression of spiritual attitude, a declaration of soul loyalty . . .” (196:0.10) To be constant in this expression of loyalty maintains an attitude of openness to God’s will.
118:8:11 An automatic universe reaction is stable and, in some form, continuing in the cosmos. A personality who knows God and desires to do his will, who has spirit insight, is divinely stable and eternally existent. Man’s great universe adventure consists in the transit of his mortal mind from the stability of mechanical statics to the divinity of spiritual dynamics, and he achieves this transformation by the force and constancy of his own personality decisions, in each of life’s situations declaring, “It is my will that your will be done.”
As I understand the living connection, it can’t be had without some kind of prayer. And by prayer I mean inner communication with Deity, not formal prayer. I think it is possible to maintain a constant connection, and this constancy is the crux of being loyal.
53:8.4 The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, “Get you behind me, Satan.” That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken.
Perhaps Gabriel can teach us to pray.
Bonita wrote If all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships, then living loyally must mean maintaining a living connection to Deity.Yep. The urge to pray often arises as a result of . .113:4:4 The impulse of worship largely originates in the spirit promptings of the higher mind adjutants, reinforced by the leadings of the Adjuster. But the urge to pray so often experienced by God-conscious mortals very often arises as the result of seraphic influence. The guarding seraphim is constantly manipulating the mortal environment for the purpose of augmenting the cosmic insight of the human ascender to the end that such a survival candidate may acquire enhanced realization of the presence of the indwelling Adjuster and thus be enabled to yield increased co-operation with the spiritual mission of the divine presence.. . . for the purpose of enhanced cooperation, among other things, with the spark of divinity within – the Thought Adjuster. This explains it succinctly I think:5:3:5 When you deal with the practical affairs of your daily life, you are in the hands of the spirit personalities having origin in the Third Source and Center; you are co-operating with the agencies of the Conjoint Actor. And so it is: You worship God; pray to, and commune with, the Son; and work out the details of your earthly sojourn in connection with the intelligences of the Infinite Spirit operating on your world and throughout your universe.The Master did teach us how to pray.144:1:9 The central theme of the discussions throughout the entire month of September was prayer and worship. After they had discussed worship for some days, Jesus finally delivered his memorable discourse on prayer in answer to Thomas’s request: “Master, teach us how to pray.”144:2.1 “John indeed taught you a simple form of prayer. `O Father, cleanse us from sin, show us your glory, reveal your love, and let your spirit sanctify our hearts forevermore, Amen!’ He taught this prayer that you might have something to teach the multitude. He did not intend that you should use such a set and formal petition as the expression of your own souls in prayer.
144:2.2 “Prayer is entirely a personal and spontaneous expression of the attitude of the soul toward the spirit; prayer should be the communion of sonship and the expression of fellowship. Prayer, when indited by the spirit, leads to co-operative spiritual progress. The ideal prayer is a form of spiritual communion which leads to intelligent worship. True praying is the sincere attitude of reaching heavenward for the attainment of your ideals.
Our Father who is in heaven,
Hallowed be your name.
Your kingdom come; your will be done
On earth as it is in heaven.
Give us this day our bread for tomorrow;
Refresh our souls with the water of life.
And forgive us every one our debts
As we also have forgiven our debtors.
Save us in temptation, deliver us from evil,
And increasingly make us perfect like yourself.Gabriel VS Lucifer
Gabriel, please set a good example for your younger brothers and FORGIVE.
The Master did teach us how to pray.
But he struggled with this because he wanted each person to learn to pray for themselves according to their inner yearnings, which occur in the soul, the relationship with the Adjuster. I think Jesus taught people to pray by actually living a prayer himself, by living loyally, perpetually in the presence of God.
First we learn to be loyal and then we learn to love. This tells me that loyalty is the qualifying factor. Disloyalty, on any level, eventually severs the link to love and breaks the bond with the soul. Souls can die from this.
It’s no wonder that persons who are clearly UN-loving are undergoing some kind of personality disassociation, and this is due to disloyalty. The link to reality becomes frayed and loose, then all manner of unloving things ensue. A person with a dying soul is easy to recognize, I think.
A loyal person is a stable person from whom loving things ensue . . . sweet fruits and a lovely fragrance. Not so with a dying soul. All manner of disorganization, chaos and ungraciousness show up, along with a certain stench of emptiness and vacuity.
89:10.2 Sin must be redefined as deliberate disloyalty to Deity. There are degrees of disloyalty: the partial loyalty of indecision; the divided loyalty of confliction; the dying loyalty of indifference; and the death of loyalty exhibited in devotion to godless ideals.
What do you suppose devotion to godless ideals is all about? I conjecture that there are many people who believe they have high ideals, but they are not as high as they think because they are godless.
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