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Keryn wrote: Can we see change in ourselves over time? Do we notice that we respond to things differently than when we were younger? Do we notice that we have fewer ego-driven thoughts and more thoughts aimed at doing unto others what we would have done to us?
Thanks so much for your input Keryn. I agree that hindsight is useful, but how much of it can be simply chalked up to wisdom from experience. Even a monkey will stop doing something that results in discomfort, but is that loyalty or self-preservation?
Keryn wrote: Are the changes we notice in ourselves resulting in positive outcomes? Are we moving toward goodness, beauty and truth? Are we experiencing feelings of sincere worship and joy? Do we have command over our thoughts, words and deeds? If so, I believe we are living loyally, at least, in some small way.I like this because it reminds me of that list on page 1000 of things we’re supposed to look for to let us know if our mystical musings are on the right track. So, are you suggesting that we can recognize our own level of self-mastery?
and I have difficulty believing these highly advanced beings think like humans with human emotions
The time-space creations are not perfect as Havona is perfect. There is God’s plan of perfecting the Superuniverses.
Now, Back to loyalty.
53:5.4 Since
Michael elected to remain aloof
from the actual warfare of the Lucifer rebellion,
Gabriel called his personal staff together on Edentia and, in counsel with the Most Highs, elected to assume command of the loyal hosts of Satania.
Michael remained on Salvington while Gabriel proceeded to Jerusem, and establishing himself on the sphere dedicated to the Father—the same Universal Father whose personality Lucifer and Satan had questioned—in the presence of the forgathered hosts of loyal personalities, he displayed the banner of Michael, the material emblem of the Trinity government of all creation, the three azure blue concentric circles on a white background.
It is quite evident by this quote that Michael wanted to remain aloof from the warfare. Gabriel, on the other hand, sought the council of the Most Highs, not Michael, and assumed command. Michael did not authorize Gabriel to do any of this nor did he condone it since , by his own inaction, Michael wished to remain aloof. This is DISLOYALTY to Michael, and Michael turned a blind eye and permitted the disloyalty of Gabriel.
54:5.1 Of the many reasons known to me as to why Lucifer and his confederates were not sooner interned or adjudicated, I
am permitted
(permitted by whom?)
to recite the following:
54:5.2 1. Mercy requires that every wrongdoer have sufficient time in which to formulate a deliberate and fully chosen attitude regarding his evil thoughts and sinful acts.
54:5.3 2. Supreme justice is dominated by a Father’s love; therefore will justice never destroy that which mercy can save. Time to accept salvation is vouchsafed every evildoer.
54:5.4 3. No affectionate father is ever precipitate in visiting punishment upon an erring member of his family. Patience cannot function independently of time.
54:5.5 4. While wrongdoing is always deleterious to a family, wisdom and love admonish the upright children to bear with an erring brother during the time granted by the affectionate father in which the sinner may see the error of his way and embrace salvation.
54:5.6 5.
Regardless of Michael’s attitude toward Lucifer,
(We are not told of Michael’s attitude)
notwithstanding his being Lucifer’s Creator-father, it was not in the province of the Creator Son to exercise summary jurisdiction over the apostate System Sovereign because he had not then completed his bestowal career, thereby attaining unqualified sovereignty of Nebadon
.
54:5.7 6. The Ancients of Days could have immediately annihilated these rebels, but they seldom execute wrongdoers without a full hearing. In this instance they refused to overrule theMichael decisions.
(What were Michael’s decisions?)
54:5.8 7.
It is evident
(What evidence? Immanuel offers advise only when asked)
that Immanuel counseled Michael to remain aloof from the rebels and allow rebellion to pursue a natural course of self-obliteration. And the wisdom of the Union of Days is the time reflection of the
united wisdom of the Paradise Trinity.
Michael was loyal to the Paradise Trinity but Gabriel was NOT. Gabriel most certainly did not remain aloof to the rebels.
54:5.9 8. The
Faithful of Days
(reflect Trinity wisdom)
on Edentia advised the Constellation Fathers to allow the rebels free course to the end that all sympathy for these evildoers should be the sooner uprooted in the hearts of every present and future citizen of Norlatiadek—every mortal, morontia, or spirit creature.
54:5.10 9. On Jerusem the personal representative of the Supreme Executive of Orvonton counseled Gabriel to foster full opportunity for every living creature to mature a deliberate choice in those matters involved in the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. The issues of rebellion having been raised, the
Paradise emergency adviser of Gabriel portrayed that, if such full and free opportunity were not given all Norlatiadek creatures, then would the Paradise quarantine against all such possible halfhearted or doubt-stricken creatures be extended in self-protection against the entire constellation.
To keep open the Paradise doors of ascension to the beings of Norlatiadek, it was necessary to provide for the full development of rebellion and to insure the complete determination of attitude on the part of all beings in any way concerned therewith.
IMO, Gabriel was advised on an emergency basis to NOT proceed with his intended actions disloyal to Michael and the Paradise Trinity or there would be a Paradise quarantine to protect those on the fence against the entire constellation that would destroy the doubt-stricken creatures.
54:5.11 10. The Divine Minister of Salvington issued as her third independent proclamation a mandate directing that nothing be done to half cure, cowardly suppress, or otherwise hide the hideous visage of rebels and rebellion. The angelic hosts were directed to work for full disclosure and unlimited opportunity for sin-expression as the quickest technique of achieving the perfect and final cure of the plague of evil and sin.
The Divine Minister of Salvington needed to issue a THIRD independent proclamation to stop the otherwise immediate actions of Gabriel.
54:5.12 11. An
emergency council
of ex-mortals consisting of Mighty Messengers, glorified mortals who had had personal experience with like situations, together with their colleagues, was organized on Jerusem.
They advised Gabriel
that at least three times the number of beings would be led astray if arbitrary or summary methods of suppression were attempted. The entire Uversa corps of counselors concurred in advising Gabriel to permit the rebellion to take its full and natural course, even if it should require a million years to wind up the consequences.
Every one was doing there level best and on an emergency basis to keep Gabriel from acting in a hasty and destructive way that went against the will of Michael and the Holy Trinity.
54:5.13 12. Time, even in a universe of time, is relative: If a Urantia mortal of average length of life should commit a crime which precipitated world-wide pandemonium, and if he were apprehended, tried, and executed within two or three days of the commission of the crime, would it seem a long time to you? And yet that would be nearer a comparison with the length of Lucifer’s life even if his adjudication, now begun, should not be completed for a hundred thousand Urantia years. The relative lapse of time from the viewpoint of Uversa, where the litigation is pending, could be indicated by saying that the crime of Lucifer was being brought to trial within two and a half seconds of its commission. From the Paradise viewpoint the adjudication is simultaneous with the enactment.
54:5.14 There are an equal number of reasons for not arbitrarily stopping the Lucifer rebellion which would be partially comprehensible to you, but which I am
not permitted to narrate
(not permitted by whom and why?)
. I may inform you that on Uversa we teach forty-eight reasons for permitting evil to run the full course of its own moral bankruptcy and spiritual extinction. I doubt not that there are just as many additional reasons not known to me.
nelsong wrote: . . . if you do it the best you can you will grow.I agree with that. We’re told that we should maintain an attitude of wholehearted devotion to supreme values. Devotion and loyalty are in the same family. I’ve always been struck by the word devotion. It not only means loyal enthusiasm, but it also means prayer and worship, plus it’s now without a certain romantic flavor.
100:1.6 The certain technique of fostering this constitutive endowment of the potential of spiritual growth is to maintain an attitude of wholehearted devotion to supreme values.
In these perfecting super universes there is only one Urantia
It is unique to the human race
unique to thinkers of human thoughts
Bradly wrote: There is no loyalty without trust and those who are disloyal cannot be trusted.Fantastic post Bradly. I love the scholarliness. I think the most important point you made is about the relationship between loyal living and trustworthiness. The solemnity of trust is intimately related to faith, which is why the term faith-trust is so frequently used in describing our relationship with Deity. We are told by Rodan that personality association and mutual affection are sufficient safeguards against evil. And, if we can build up small units of human associations based on loyalty and trustworthiness, the world would be a fantastic place approaching the stabilization of maturity.
I really like that term, stabilization of maturity. Mature people are those who are living loyally.
nelsong wrote: . . . and I have difficulty believing these highly advanced beings think like humans with human emotionsI agree Nelson. Humans are subject to the problem of duality; they are beings of animal origin with a divine nucleus. Therefore, humans have to live with two sets of emotions, animal and divine. The recognition of animal emotions, the interpretation of their effect on relationships and the self-control necessary to choose not to engage them is part of loyal living. I don’t know what is more important, recognizing animal emotions or recognizing divine emotions, but I do know that the animal emotions are definitely easier to identify. What people do once they discover and recognize them determines their level of loyalty to divinity.
Did you know that there is an entire corps of angels dedicated to fostering the holier emotions of humans? (39:2.5)
Thanks so much for your input Keryn. I agree that hindsight is useful, but how much of it can be simply chalked up to wisdom from experience. Even a monkey will stop doing something that results in discomfort, but is that loyalty or self-preservation?
Keryn wrote: Are the changes we notice in ourselves resulting in positive outcomes? Are we moving toward goodness, beauty and truth? Are we experiencing feelings of sincere worship and joy? Do we have command over our thoughts, words and deeds? If so, I believe we are living loyally, at least, in some small way.
I like this because it reminds me of that list on page 1000 of things we’re supposed to look for to let us know if our mystical musings are on the right track. So, are you suggesting that we can recognize our own level of self-mastery?
No, I am not suggesting that. Assessing my own level of self-mastery is something I have no interest in other than to occasionally check in with myself to make sure I am on a “Godward” growth path.
147:5.7 That same evening Jesus made the long-to-be-remembered address to the apostles regarding the relative value of status with God and progress in the eternal ascent to Paradise. Said Jesus: “My children, if there exists a true and living connection between the child and the Father, the child is certain to progress continuously toward the Father’s ideals. True, the child may at first make slow progress, but the progress is none the less sure. The important thing is not the rapidity of your progress but rather its certainty. Your actual achievement is not so important as the fact that the direction of your progress is Godward. What you are becoming day by day is of infinitely more importance than what you are today.
nelsong wrote: . . . and I have difficulty believing these highly advanced beings think like humans with human emotions
I agree Nelson. Humans are subject to the problem of duality; they are beings of animal origin with a divine nucleus. Therefore, humans have to live with two sets of emotions, animal and divine.Does God feel our human pain? Do not the highly advanced being of TA fusion remember there onetime human emotions? Did they not convey these emotions and feeling to those descending right up through the Havona natives for their benefits?
Why must all of you think of yourself as less worthy by having started as a human? We have been given the most in order to compensate for having to start at the bottom. We have a most enviable status.
Why must all of you think of yourself as less worthy by having started as a human? We have been given the most in order to compensate for having to start at the bottom. We have a most enviable status.
“Worthy”, “status,” “enviable” — these are words of the ego.
TUB “True and False Liberty” in paper 54: Problems of the Lucifer Rebellion reminds us
54:1.1 Of all the perplexing problems growing out of the Lucifer rebellion, none has occasioned more difficulty than the failure of immature evolutionary mortals to distinguish between true and false liberty.
and
54:1.5 Unbridled self-will and unregulated self-expression equal unmitigated selfishness, the acme of ungodliness. Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of self is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination. Self-motivated liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel deception. License masquerading in the garments of liberty is the forerunner of abject bondage.
54:1.6 True liberty is the associate of genuine self-respect; false liberty is the consort of self-admiration. True liberty is the fruit of self-control; false liberty, the assumption of self-assertion. Self-control leads to altruistic service; self-admiration tends towards the exploitation of others for the selfish aggrandizement of such a mistaken individual as is willing to sacrifice righteous attainment for the sake of possessing unjust power over his fellow beings.
emanny3003 wrote:
Why must all of you think of yourself as less worthy by having started as a human? We have been given the most in order to compensate for having to start at the bottom. We have a most enviable status.
“Worthy”, “status,” “enviable” — these are words of the ego.These may very be words of the ego IF one uses them in self-reference.
God has no ego, yet God determines my worthiness, not me. God determines my status, not me. God bestows His gifts to me. I choose to receive them and give Him thanks. I cannot envy myself. If you envy me it is because you have not accepted your gifts from Father and given Him thanks.
Are you concerned for me? How can you presume to know that I do not know Father?
Are your warning quotes intended to gain some unjust power over me?
So your use of the word “we” in your quote above (“we have a most enviable status”), refers to everyone else except yourself?
So your use of the word “we” in your quote above (“we have a most enviable status”), refers to everyone else except yourself?
No Keryn. “We” refers to the children of God. We are taught to pray, “Our Father…” The ego thinks that it can create. We are created. We do not create ourselves.
What is your agenda here Keryn?
emanny I am simply trying to understand your perspective. You say the words were not egoistic except if they are used in self-reference. But you had used the term “we” which, by definition, includes the person saying it, so therefore it was used in self-reference. So I asked you to clarify.
Now you say that “we” refers to the children of God. So again I ask you, does that include yourself? You are a child of God; therefore, you used the words “worthy” “status” and “enviable” in reference to yourself. Therefore, they are coming from your ego. Perhaps your ego “thinks that it can create”. Mine does not. My ego thinks I am the center of the world and the star of the show. I am learning to put my ego in its proper perspective and to put my Thought Adjuster in charge, with my ego in service to the direction and leadings of my TA. I have a long way to go, but it is a worthy endeavor.
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