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emanny I am simply trying to understand your perspective. You say the words were not egoistic except if they are used in self-reference. But you had used the term “we” which, by definition, includes the person saying it, so therefore it was used in self-reference. So I asked you to clarify.
emanny3003 wrote:
Why must all of you think of yourself as less worthy by having started as a human? We have been given the most in order to compensate for having to start at the bottom. We have a most enviable status.Why do you deliberately confuse the issue if you really wish to understand me?
“We”, you and me, are the recipients of the Gifts of God. We are the objects of envy, NOT the source of envy. I do not envy you because I have my own. Do you envy me?
You are a child of God; therefore, you used the words “worthy” “status” and “enviable” in reference to yourself. Therefore, they are coming from your ego.
No, you are wrong again. I am defined by He who created me. You dare to question God?
Perhaps your ego “thinks that it can create”. Mine does not. My ego thinks I am the center of the world and the star of the show. I am learning to put my ego in its proper perspective and to put my Thought Adjuster in charge, with my ego in service to the direction and leadings of my TA. I have a long way to go, but it is a worthy endeavor.
You do have a long way to go because in your statement above, you have given us all the perfect example of SELF REFERENCE.
I have one last question for you, Keryn.
“The baptism of John, whence was it? Did John get his authority from heaven or from men?”
You do not have to clarify for me your agenda, I know it all too well.
Me here: Pray tell Keryn’s “agenda”.No, you are wrong again. I am defined by He who created me. You dare to question God?
Actually, God only gives us our potential and the tools we need to reach that potential…mind, personality, free will, time, and spirit circuitry. Otherwise, we are our own creation by the choices we make by free will and in time by mind which determine how quickly, or if, we transfer the seat of our identity. Questioning you Louis is not “to question God” for pete’s sake. Free will defines us before and after fusion. Your combative tone and defensiveness are your choice, not God’s choice. It is your response choice. We must all learn to be response-able. Perhaps the sister is truly trying to understand? ….and without agenda?
Keryn wrote: No, I am not suggesting that. Assessing my own level of self-mastery is something I have no interest in other than to occasionally check in with myself to make sure I am on a “Godward” growth path.I agree with that. I think what you said goes back to my original thinking on the subject. It’s all about the striving and the yearning.
111:1.5 It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity.
“Worthy”, “status,” “enviable” — these are words of the ego.
I agree. “Humility, indeed, becomes mortal man who receives all these gifts from the Father in heaven . . .” (149:6.10)
Bradly wrote: Questioning you Louis is not “to question God” for pete’s sake.So wait . . . he thinks he’s God?? What the heck’s going on here? Isn’t that the same problem Lucifer had? Weird, huh?
Actually, God only gives us our potential and the tools we need to reach that potential…mind, personality, free will, time, and spirit circuitry.
God gives us EVERYTHING. So you would claim that what God gives has limits? We live IN HIM!
Otherwise, we are our own creation by the choices we make by free will and in time by mind which determine how quickly, or if, we transfer the seat of our identity.
So now you say that we are our own creation? You must be beside yourself, Bradly. You presume to create yourself in your own image. You are looking in a mirror. There is only one of you, Bradly, and it is in God’s image that you were created.
Questioning you Louis is not “to question God” for pete’s sake. Free will defines us before and after fusion.
You do not question me, Bradly, you question our maker. He defines me and defines you. Freewill is the gift of choice and defines nothing. God’s gifts do not define us, God defines us.
Your combative tone and defensiveness are your choice, not God’s choice. It is your response choice.
You are afraid, Bradly. This not my choice but yours. You are not afraid of me but you are afraid of God. Why are you so God fearing? Why do respond to God with fear? You deflect your defenses toward me when what you really fear is the judgement of God. Fear not for He will judge you rightly. Humble yourself before God, not me. Humility before a brother is a fearful response. I have said this to you many times before. God is not a respecter of persons and one brother is no lower than any other brother. Why do you lower yourself? Do you not believe this of your Father? Why do you deny your Father?
149:6.10 “Humility, indeed, becomes mortal man who receives all these gifts from the Father in heaven, albeit there is a divine dignity attached to all such faith candidates for the eternal ascent of the heavenly kingdom. The meaningless and menial practices of an ostentatious and false humility are incompatible with the appreciation of the source of your salvation and the recognition of the destiny of your spirit-born souls. Humility before God is altogether appropriate in the depths of your hearts; meekness before men is commendable; but the hypocrisy of self-conscious and attention-craving humility is childish and unworthy of the enlightened sons of the kingdom.
We must all learn to be response-able. Perhaps the sister is truly trying to understand? ….and without agenda?
Perhaps you are correct that Karyn has no agenda. But I can tell you that she attempts to confuse the discussion and that is an agenda.
Keryn wrote:
“Worthy”, “status,” “enviable” — these are words of the ego.I agree. “Humility, indeed, becomes mortal man who receives all these gifts from the Father in heaven . . .” (149:6.10)
Lets give some context, Bonita.
149:6.9 “Out of your wrong concepts of the Father in heaven grow your false ideas of humility and springs much of your hypocrisy. Man may be a worm of the dust by nature and origin, but when he becomes indwelt by my Father’s spirit, that man becomes divine in his destiny. The bestowal spirit of my Father will surely return to the divine source and universe level of origin, and the human soul of mortal man which shall have become the reborn child of this indwelling spirit shall certainly ascend with the divine spirit to the very presence of the eternal Father.
149:6.10 “Humility, indeed, becomes mortal man who receives all these gifts from the Father in heaven, albeit there is a divine dignity attached to all such faith candidates for the eternal ascent of the heavenly kingdom. The meaningless and menial practices of an ostentatious and false humility are incompatible with the appreciation of the source of your salvation and the recognition of the destiny of your spirit-born souls. Humility before God is altogether appropriate in the depths of your hearts; meekness before men is commendable; but the hypocrisy of self-conscious and attention-craving humility is childish and unworthy of the enlightened sons of the kingdom.
Did you post this in order to help Bradly with his problem of hypocrisy of self-conscious and attention-craving humility?
Bradly wrote: Questioning you Louis is not “to question God” for pete’s sake.
So wait . . . he thinks he’s God?? What the heck’s going on here? Isn’t that the same problem Lucifer had? Weird, huh?
Truly, I say that this is a fine example of bearing false witness.
You are afraid, Bradly. This not my choice but yours. You are not afraid of me but you are afraid of God. Why are you so God fearing? Why do respond to God with fear? You deflect your defenses toward me when what you really fear is the judgement of God. Fear not for He will judge you rightly. Humble yourself before God, not me. Humility before a brother is a fearful response. I have said this to you many times before. God is not a respecter of persons and one brother is no lower than any other brother. Why do you lower yourself? Do you not believe this of your Father? Why do you deny your Father?
Louis – You say much about me personally here and I accept your rebuke and admonishments as from one who cares deeply about truth and displays such passion for their understanding of God’s will and way. No one should fear that and them which created us nor their motives or intentions regarding our future…nor the heavenly ways of love, mercy, patience, kindness, service….or justice. Neither should we fear the vicissitudes that are to be faced with courage and wisdom to relegate them to their proper priority in the pursuit of truth, beauty, and goodness. Surely, anger at those who disagree with me or judge me or even revile and condemn me would be most inappropriate….as well as ineffective and, even, counterproductive. While facing so many accusations may incite self importance and response in kind, such a temptation holds no value to oneself or to any other. To defend myself is to lower myself by raising my ego and to remain silent is to cower in the face of such accusation.
Quite a pickle. I would hope that differences in perspective and ideas on such important topics and matters discussed here would not require such personalization for mutual discovery and benefit from such discourse as is intended here and other forums and in any gathering of believers. And I would hope that when we stray into such human reactions like anger and fear that we can find our way back to respect and civility and from there to humor and reversion that we might gain something of value, the diamond in the coal field, that offers new perspective.
I will not defend myself Louis nor try to explain my joy and my blessed life filled with love, laughter, family, friends, a craft that I love and excel at, service daily in my work, family, and pilgrim’s path nor could I possibly express my relationship with Father and my utter confidence in my destiny. If I express fear in any way, it mystifies me as to its source, for I have felt Father’s love and heard his voice for all of my life. I do not feel that fear you find so obvious but I will seek it out as fear is the greatest of all mind poisons and the root of much evil in this world of mortals. I have been upon the pilgrim’s path for some 50 years now (of my brief 62) and have both enjoyed and been bewildered by the route I have chosen. And while it has not been easy, I have been so blessed in so many ways by my reality alignment efforts to harmonize the duality in this life which so easily confuses and confounds the tadpole but which gives way to progress by the sincerity of one’s yearning and choosing.
I’ve always believed that if one loves their life, then there is no place for regrets and remorse, for it is where we are now that matters most; and if we do not find ourselves where we wish to be, such regret is of little value anyway as we cannot wish change but must act and learn to choose better so that the results to our choices takes a better way toward our heart’s desire. I love life. I love people. I love a challenge. And you certainly present much opportunity for me to exercise patience, understanding, forbearance, kindness, and love for another child of my Father. I am glad for such a chance to come to know myself better that I might learn more about the dove and the serpent and how to be more response-able. I cannot choose what will happen but I do choose how to respond to everything that does happen. May I so choose according to the spirit.
Sorry for the repost but just seems so appropriate here as well:
(1570.14) 140:3.13 “You are the light of the world. A city set upon a hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light so shine before men that they may see your good works and be led to glorify your Father who is in heaven.
(1571.1) 140:3.14 “I am sending you out into the world to represent me and to act as ambassadors of my Father’s kingdom, and as you go forth to proclaim the glad tidings, put your trust in the Father whose messengers you are. Do not forcibly resist injustice; put not your trust in the arm of the flesh. If your neighbor smites you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Be willing to suffer injustice rather than to go to law among yourselves. In kindness and with mercy minister to all who are in distress and in need.
(1571.2) 140:3.15 “I say to you: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who despitefully use you. And whatsoever you believe that I would do to men, do you also to them.
(1571.3) 140:3.16 “Your Father in heaven makes the sun to shine on the evil as well as upon the good; likewise he sends rain on the just and the unjust. You are the sons of God; even more, you are now the ambassadors of my Father’s kingdom. Be merciful, even as God is merciful, and in the eternal future of the kingdom you shall be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.
(1571.4) 140:3.17 “You are commissioned to save men, not to judge them. At the end of your earth life you will all expect mercy; therefore do I require of you during your mortal life that you show mercy to all of your brethren in the flesh. Make not the mistake of trying to pluck a mote out of your brother’s eye when there is a beam in your own eye. Having first cast the beam out of your own eye, you can the better see to cast the mote out of your brother’s eye.
(1571.5) 140:3.18 “Discern the truth clearly; live the righteous life fearlessly; and so shall you be my apostles and my Father’s ambassadors. You have heard it said: ‘If the blind lead the blind, they both shall fall into the pit.’ If you would guide others into the kingdom, you must yourselves walk in the clear light of living truth. In all the business of the kingdom I exhort you to show just judgment and keen wisdom. Present not that which is holy to dogs, neither cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample your gems under foot and turn to rend you.
(1571.6) 140:3.19 “I warn you against false prophets who will come to you in sheep’s clothing, while on the inside they are as ravening wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree brings forth good fruit, but the corrupt tree bears evil fruit. A good tree cannot yield evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree produce good fruit. Every tree that does not bring forth good fruit is presently hewn down and cast into the fire. In gaining an entrance into the kingdom of heaven, it is the motive that counts. My Father looks into the hearts of men and judges by their inner longings and their sincere intentions.
May our hearts be worthy of such examination. Peace.
I cannot choose what will happen but I do choose how to respond to everything that does happen. May I so choose according to the spirit.
Thanks Bradly. You’ve written a true, beautiful and good post. Very well done, and I believe and trust your sincerity. Sincerity is certainly necessary for loyal living. How does that quote go . . . . sincerity, more sincerity and more sincerity. How can you be egoistic and hypocritical while being sincere? It can’t be done.
Yet we are told that sincerity alone can be insufficient. Poor Eve. She was most sincere and had the highest motives but still succumbed to the wily machinations of a Lucifer minion. I fully understand her willingness to believe a sweet-talking serpent. She probably never entertained the thought that someone could be so evil. She was created to trust others, to live sincerely and loyally as she thought she was.
I think this is one of the benefits of being an agondonter. Living and growing up among serpents makes it easier to identify them. And perhaps that has some value in the life to come. A well honed proboscis equipped to sniff out the faintest of sophistries must have some value in the universe.
Bradly wrote: I cannot choose what will happen but I do choose how to respond to everything that does happen.Thank you so much for your lovely and loving personal narrative.Bonita asked how do we know if we are living loyally. There are different kinds of loyalties in human endeavors, such as family loyalty, religious loyalty, national loyalty. Loyalty might be defined as the state or quality of being loyal; faithfulness to commitments or obligations. Or the faithful adherence to a sovereign, government, leader, cause. A person feels a sense of allegiance, commitment, dedication toward a set of ideas and ideals (as political loyalty or ideological loyalty) and the only other kind of loyalty I can think of at the moment pertains to loyalty to persons – human and divine – with the highest loyalty to the divinest person I know: our heavenly Father, the God of all creation.Living loyally to our heavenly Father is a top down affair. Live loyally to the highest and all other loyalties will fall in place according to one’s interpretation – one’s viewpoint. We discover God first and then reason ourselves into the truth that we are brothers and sisters of the one and only God, our heavenly Father. Put God’s will first and foremost. Worship only him. Demonstrate to others he lives in you. And it’s a 7/24 affair. To me that’s living loyally. But I used to think loyalty to my family was the highest imaginable loyalty.Living loyally to our heavenly Father is a top down affair. Live loyally to the highest and all other loyalties will fall in place according to one’s interpretation – one’s viewpoint.
Fantastic post Mara. I agree wholeheartedly. But what happens to those whose idea of God is not one of a Father? What happens to those who are wholly loyal to a mathematical formula or an absolute oneness? All other loyalties would naturally fall into place according to that viewpoint. Can one be loyal to an abstract idea? Seems to me that it would drive one quite mad in the end.
Perhaps you are correct that Karyn has no agenda. But I can tell you that she attempts to confuse the discussion and that is an agenda.
Ah, you flatter me! If such were my agenda, it would be futile indeed as I find myself amongst a most learned and knowledgeable group of brothers and sisters who share my desire to learn, grow and share in sincere quest of greater understanding of TUBs wisdom. It would not be possible for me, with my limited knowledge and burgeoning familiarity with TUB to ever cause confusion or dismay on this forum. Furthermore, logic would dictate that such an agenda would be a purely selfish and childish attempt, undeserving of even being remarked upon.
Back to the topic of this thread, with regard to living loyally, this quote is instructive:
39:4.11 What is loyalty? It is the fruit of an intelligent appreciation of universe brotherhood; one could not take so much and give nothing. As you ascend the personality scale, first you learn to be loyal, then to love, then to be filial, and then may you be free; but not until you are a finaliter, not until you have attained perfection of loyalty, can you self-realize finality of liberty.
Thanks Keryn. That was the quote I was planning on starting this thread with but changed my mind because it is so complicated. For instance, why does loyalty come before love? And why does love come before filiality (not sure that’s a word)? Why does filiality come before freedom? I’ve been thinking about this for years. Any ideas?
To my mind, the phrase “intelligent appreciation of universe brotherhood” is a key to understanding this teaching of Rodan’s. Comprehending and appreciating the fact that we are citizens of a cosmic universe who are equal of spiritual potential, comes first. The ‘fruits’ of this intelligent appreciation is the realization that one is greatly blessed and therefore one wishes to serve others. This desire to serve others leads us to love them, and to begin regarding our fellow humans as one family.
So perhaps loyalty can really be condensed down to having a sincere and lasting appreciation for our place in the cosmos as a human family that grows together in love and service.
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