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But what happens to those whose idea of God is not one of a Father?
What happens is between God and those ones, since God know the motives and hearts of those ones. I was reminded of the flicker of faith . . .
155:6:17 Now, mistake not, my Father will ever respond to the faintest flicker of faith. He takes note of the physical and superstitious emotions of the primitive man. And with those honest but fearful souls whose faith is so weak that it amounts to little more than an intellectual conformity to a passive attitude of assent to religions of authority, the Father is ever alert to honor and foster even all such feeble attempts to reach out for him. But you who have been called out of darkness into the light are expected to believe with a whole heart; your faith shall dominate the combined attitudes of body, mind, and spirit.So perhaps loyalty can really be condensed down to having a sincere and lasting appreciation for our place in the cosmos as a human family that grows together in love and service.
Isn’t that being filial?
I was thinking that loyalty comes first because it establishes a relationship with the personhood of God, who hopefully we think of as a Father. But, some people think of God as a friend, a companion, a cosmic guide, or whatever. I think that as long as we think of him as a person, we’re open to being loyal.
Loyalty to the person of God has to be a relationship, a give and take, a connection that has the potential of either growing stronger or breaking. Breaking the connection to the relationship destroys a person’s standing in the universe through isolation. On the other hand, maintaining and strengthening that connection makes the relationship dearer and more revealing, which enables us to develop a concept of what fatherly love is all about. Once we start to experience that love, I think we are more capable of sharing that love. Hence, loyalty to the relationship first followed by love.
What do you think?
What happens is between God and those ones, since God know the motives and hearts of those ones. I was reminded of the flicker of faith . . .
But can you consider loyalty to a mathematical formula a flicker of faith?
Bonita, you have pointed out a conundrum that I had not noticed! Indeed, you are right. I like the way you have interpreted the quote and it makes sense to me.
I like the way you have interpreted the quote and it makes sense to me.
Thanks Keryn, but I’m not satisfied with it yet. How about the whole freedom thing?
Bonita wrote: But can you consider loyalty to a mathematical formula a flicker of faith?It is in God’s hands, not ours, to know the answer to this question as it pertains to any particular individual. The highest loyalty is personal in nature, and math formulas are not personal, neither are political causes, or loyalties to one’s flag. We do not worship a mathematical formulas. We do not worship ideologies. But of faith?3:5:9 4. Is faith — the supreme assertion of human thought — desirable? Then must the mind of man find itself in that troublesome predicament where it ever knows less than it can believe.Mara wrote: The highest loyalty is personal in nature, and math formulas . . .But how sad to put one’s faith-trust in something that is dead.
39:4.11 What is loyalty? It is the fruit of an intelligent appreciation of universe brotherhood; one could not take so much and give nothing. As you ascend the personality scale, first you learn to be loyal, then to love, then to be filial, and then may you be free; but not until you are a finaliter, not until you have attained perfection of loyalty, can you self-realize finality of liberty.
“…and then may you be free….” Could it be free from the fetters of temporal and material attachments and gravity? To become free by our being in the grip of and the force of spirit gravity instead?
Such freedom is, I think, possible even for the tadpole. Loyalty, true and tried, renders up love that transcends the self and persistent loyalty to the highest of ideals and to all relationships with others – this then might set us FREE to really experience the guiding spirit within? Just thinking out loud…..
For some reason, this old tune began playing in my mind. It speaks to me of the very simplicity of loyalty, faith, and transcendent confidence in our destiny and our potential today, this very day, to be joyful in our certain destiny. Oh to be mortal and in love with life itself!!
These are the complete original words to the one verse Shaker dance song:
‘Tis the gift to be simple, ’tis the gift to be free,
‘Tis the gift to come down where we ought to be,
And when we find ourselves in the place just right,
‘Twill be in the valley of love and delight.
When true simplicity is gain’d,
To bow and to bend we shan’t be asham’d,
To turn, turn will be our delight
‘Till by turning, turning we come round right.“….and then may you be free….”
Some bright morning when this life is over
I’ll fly away
To that home on God’s celestial shore
I’ll fly awayI’ll fly away oh glory
I’ll fly away (in the morning)
When I die hallelujah by and by
I’ll fly awayWhen the shadows of this life have gone
I’ll fly away
Like a bird from these prison walls I’ll fly
I’ll fly awayOh how glad and happy when we meet
I’ll fly away
No more cold iron shackles on my feet
I’ll fly awayJust a few more weary days and then
I’ll fly away
To a land where joys will never end
I’ll fly away
Bradly wrote: . . . this then might set us FREE to really experience the guiding spirit within?Aren’t we already free to do that? Isn’t that the starting point? Aren’t all of our relationships based on this one integral relationship within us, better known as the soul?
I was actually thinking about liberty. Isn’t there a difference between freedom and liberty? We are free now, in a sense. We have free will. But we don’t have liberty to use it any way we like . . . .so, now I’m thinking out loud too.
Louis – You say much about me personally here and I accept your rebuke and admonishments as from one who cares deeply about truth and displays such passion for their understanding of God’s will and way.
I must speak to you personally, Bradly. It would be hypocritical of me to do otherwise. I respect you as a person, not as an idea. We may never have agreements of ideas but we can be unified with all brothers in spirit. We can only unify in spirit and that involves personality. And you are correct, I do care deeply.
If you feel accused of anything by me it must be because you have taken offense. No offense was intended. No defense on your part is required.
Quite a pickle. I would hope that differences in perspective and ideas on such important topics and matters discussed here would not require such personalization for mutual discovery and benefit from such discourse as is intended here and other forums and in any gathering of believers.
Our differences in perspective and ideas are NOT important at all. Our unity in spirit IS important! If we do not engage each other personally the spirit cannot experience unity. Otherwise, these discussions are just sterile intellectualizations. Our persons must tackle each other in order that the spirits be known. The boxer hugs his opponent with great love of spirit at the end of a brutal fight. They disagreed about who was the better fighter but each was grateful to have had the chance to fight. In the end they learned more about each other and themselves than would otherwise be possible. Compare that to a neighbor with whom you have polite dealings for years across the fence but you never really get to know in spirit so that there may be a real unity.
The boxers beat each other brains out, literally, yet there is no anger in the ring and no fear. If anger enters into the ring the angry opponent is sure to lose. If fear enters the ring, the fearful opponent is sure to lose. Each boxer know this and refrains from getting offended by a right upper cut. Should he become defensive, he will surely lose the fight on the ropes.
If I have landed a few punches in the head, I hope that I was of service in helping you raise your guard to better yourself. If I have hit below the belt, that was not my intention. We all have bruises from life. The important thing is that we heal and learn from them. But I cannot engage you or anyone else impersonally. I cannot box with a shadow.
Our differences in perspective and ideas are NOT important at all. Our unity in spirit IS important! If we do not engage each other personally the spirit cannot experience unity. Otherwise, these discussions are just sterile intellectualizations. Our persons must tackle each other in order that the spirits be known. The boxer hugs his opponent with great love of spirit at the end of a brutal fight. They disagreed about who was the better fighter but each was grateful to have had the chance to fight. In the end they learned more about each other and themselves than would otherwise be possible. Compare that to a neighbor with whom you have polite dealings for years across the fence but you never really get to know in spirit so that there may be a real unity. The boxers beat each other brains out, literally, yet there is no anger in the ring and no fear. If anger enters into the ring the angry opponent is sure to lose. If fear enters the ring, the fearful opponent is sure to lose. Each boxer know this and refrains from getting offended by a right upper cut. Should he become defensive, he will surely lose the fight on the ropes. If I have landed a few punches in the head, I hope that I was of service in helping you raise your guard to better yourself. If I have hit below the belt, that was not my intention. We all have bruises from life. The important thing is that we heal and learn from them. But I cannot engage you or anyone else impersonally. I cannot box with a shadow.
Powerful statement!
BB
Bradly wrote:For some reason, this old tune began playing in my mind.Hey! I know that song. Now I have it running through my head too. Thanks Brad. But isn’t it amazing how certain words always trigger divine emotions in us? Such as coming out of the shadows of darkness and into the bright morning light? Such symbolism! No wonder the 23rd Psalm has stayed with mankind for so many millennia. It has such powerful symbolism.Then there’s Jesus too. His light shines on us and removes the shadows of darkness.Mara said the highest loyalty is personal in nature:
ever been betrayed by someone you were very close to – had a loyal relationship with?
our prince did this to us and his staff and those who trusted him enough to make him a prince
Taking revenge for something like this is the human response
Taking revenge for something like this is the human response
Yes, indeed.
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