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Posts
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Gene wrote: But that would suggest that perfection is relative.
It is for us:
2:2.4 Out in the universes, perfection must necessarily be a relative term, but in the central universe and especially on Paradise, perfection is undiluted; in certain phases it is even absolute. Trinity manifestations vary the exhibition of the divine perfection but do not attenuate it.
Gene wrote: I’ll add that being replete in self realization and mind attainment says you are aware of your perfection??No, I don’t think so. Perfection is like goodness. True goodness is unconscious. I tried to explain this, a little bit, in my last post on the soul thread. Not sure I made a lot of sense there, but I tried.56:10.12 Goodness is the mental recognition of the relative values of the diverse levels of divine perfection. The recognition of goodness implies a mind of moral status, a personal mind with ability to discriminate between good and evil. But the possession of goodness, greatness, is the measure of real divinity attainment.140:8.26 Jesus always insisted that true goodness must be unconscious, . . .Hi Chuck,
Is it possible for todays’ student to use this same method in a personal study?
Personally, I find your interest to re-initiate the study group, a very ”up to date” mode in 2016, noble cause. Your reference to the same method used in 1930 is logical and sound.
History tend to repeat itself. Way back to the Garden, after trying improve methods to set up the garden and surroundings ….74:5.6 he fell back on Van’s method of organization.
That’s very interesting. UB study by video conferencing is definitely futuristic.
…. so much ”futuristic” it is a pre–reconnection with …
67:2.3(755.5)Meantime the system circuits had been severed; Urantia was isolated. Every group of celestial life on the planet found itself suddenly and without warning isolated, utterly cut off from all outside counsel and advice.
I agree Chuck when Bonita emphases to handle it simple. Simplicity is always a sure mode to develop your idea whom may flourish to an ideal.
We are the express mode of The Supreme. All on this forum, have motives to do the will of Our Father. It is the job of Seraphic guardians in concert wit T/A to socially and spiritually bring childs of Gods here. Some are ignorants, blind to, foolish, other intelligent, knowledgeable, wise.
Is that what we have to deals with or is that what God have to deal with?
Is our personal opinion ( “personal opinion” in this context to mean “experience with other personalities”) , individual perception matter?
…
You ask interesting questions. I think our opinion does matter, as to suggest otherwise would negate the matter of free will. As for me being the one to start this study group, quite frankly, I don’t see it happening right now. Someone else is welcome to do so however. I just don’t see the interest shown for such a prodject, not enough to warrent starting it at least. Look at how many people showed interest when I first posed the question. Oh yes, a few people showed initial interest, but, when the topic was being discussed, only me and one other appeared to be interested in actually starting such a study group.
I may contribute to it, but I will not be the one to start it. Call me impatient, but I like to see visible results. While Bonita and myself did show interest, a study group can not endure unless others join. Based on the initial reception of my ideas, I just don’t see enough interest in the proposal.
Well, it’s good to hear another person with the same level of concern over the lack of participation here. And I agree that it does take the wind out of your sail and make you want to do other things than study. You know how Gene wanted to talk about angels and then didn’t? Well, angels are in charge of groups of people and they also stimulate human relationships, probably in groups. Perhaps this is not a group the angels are interested in stimulating. My feeling is, if it takes so much effort to get people interested in something, then you’re doing it all wrong. Either that, or it shouldn’t be done at all. It’s hard to tell.
G’day all,
It might happend to each of you when something “dear to your heart”and do not see a way trough, conscious or unconscious your mind switches to standby mode.
Your last 2 posts … Chuck and Bonita initiate such position.
Here is the result of an expecting respond.
It is not because things are difficult that we do not dare, it is because we do not dare that they are difficult. Seneca111:1.9 (1217.4) Mind is your ship, the Adjuster is your pilot, the human will is captain.Where there is a will, there is a way. If there is a chance in a million that you can do something, anything, to keep what you want from ending, do it. If there is no wind,grab the paddles and train.Thanks for the cattle prod Andre. The only problem is that Chuck and I can study but it will get dull real soon if no one joins in. Last year, or so (can’t remember exactly) I left the forum for a while. The entire time I was gone there were only two posters here talking to one another and sometimes only talking to themselves. It was so sad to watch, I couldn’t bear it. And then poor Rick. He spent years on OPAD which was supposed to be a similar study program and participation was as rare as hens teeth. I’ve given up trying to figure out why and have just accepted the fact that it is this way and probably always will be as long as I’m alive. It’s not a standby mode as much as a resolution to move on to other things. Gotta keep busy.
I’ll just say that it’s kind of a downer to see all these posts complaining about how other members are not participating to the degree that others on this forum expect. Each of us has our unique capacity and our own style of studying TUB. A lack of responses to posts doesn’t mean that the sharing and studying is of no use; one has no idea of how many are reading and pondering the insights shared here, even if they do not feel they have anything to add in the way of a public reply on the thread.
A case in point:
Thanks for the cattle prod Andre. The only problem is that Chuck and I can study but it will get dull real soon if no one joins in. Last year, or so (can’t remember exactly) I left the forum for a while. The entire time I was gone there were only two posters here talking to one another and sometimes only talking to themselves. It was so sad to watch, I couldn’t bear it. And then poor Rick. He spent years on OPAD which was supposed to be a similar study program and participation was as rare as hens teeth. I’ve given up trying to figure out why and have just accepted the fact that it is this way and probably always will be as long as I’m alive. It’s not a standby mode as much as a resolution to move on to other things. Gotta keep busy.
It’s rather harsh and unjustified, in my opinion, to refer to Rick as “poor Rick” with regard to his amazingly unselfish and dedicated work in providing the OPAD. While I agree that participation on those threads seemed to have been rare, it is a resource that remains online for new and longtime readers to plumb in perpetuity. I, for one, have the OPAD bookmarked as a resource I return to again and again as I read the TUB and I always gain an enhanced understanding of the text after reading Rick’s and others’ insights paper by paper, page by page.
With regard to the method of study that Chucksmith proposes in this thread, it sounds amazing and very rigorous. I would love to have the time and energy to delve so deeply in the material but right now I just don’t. I work full time and have children at home. Maybe when I am retired I can devote adequate periods of study but right now it is very catch as catch can; a few minutes here, a few minutes there.
It’s rather harsh and unjustified, in my opinion, to refer to Rick as “poor Rick”
Don’t know why you think that Keryn. Rick lamented about this himself. I am simply commiserating with him. If you think commiserating is harsh, then I’m living in a different universe than you.
Even though I had read the book several times before OPAD, my understanding of it improved exponentially over the past five years. So often it improved because someone added their perspective and opened a new avenue for thinking about the item at hand. I do wish there had been more of those additions. OPAD became more a blog than a study group after the long initial period of interest and participation. Blogs have their place, but it was not the intention.
G’day all,
Keryn, you said and underline ways of what I labeled ” the silent audience ”.
Using my logic , it isn’t difficult to imagine it. Celestial students admitted on Urantia after ion’s time from the waiting list, those invisible brotherhood on the planet whom get together and observe our actions/reactions. All those in the distant future, those for whom The 5th revelation was written for, who could access those registered gems of earlier years done by us, leaders*/teachers/facilitators. All the Keryns and Kerynes participants in the ”silent audience” who cradle the baby in one hand and hold the TUB in the other.
Let’s express The Supreme and let Him care about the consequences.
Affectueusement,
André
∗ leaders: def. They set direction, build an inspiring vision, and create something new. Leadership is about mapping out .
It’s rather harsh and unjustified, in my opinion, to refer to Rick as “poor Rick”
Don’t know why you think that Keryn. Rick lamented about this himself. I am simply commiserating with him. If you think commiserating is harsh, then I’m living in a different universe than you.
Even though I had read the book several times before OPAD, my understanding of it improved exponentially over the past five years. So often it improved because someone added their perspective and opened a new avenue for thinking about the item at hand. I do wish there had been more of those additions. OPAD became more a blog than a study group after the long initial period of interest and participation. Blogs have their place, but it was not the intention.
I am reminded of the time that narrated in paper 151, “Tarrying and Teaching by the Wayside” in which Jesus talked for more than an hour to the assembled groups on “The mission of adversity and the spiritual value of disappointment“. This is the occasion during which he told the parable of the sower, and the apostles each attempted to interpret it.
151:2.6 (1691.1) The words which Thomas spoke had a quieting effect on all of them. He caused them to recall what Jesus had taught them on former occasions, and before Jesus resumed speaking, Andrew arose, saying: “I am persuaded that Thomas is right, and I would like to have him tell us what meaning he attaches to the parable of the sower.” After Jesus had beckoned Thomas to speak, he said: “My brethren, I did not wish to prolong this discussion, but if you so desire, I will say that I think this parable was spoken to teach us one great truth. And that is that our teaching of the gospel of the kingdom, no matter how faithfully and efficiently we execute our divine commissions, is going to be attended by varying degrees of success; and that all such differences in results are directly due to conditions inherent in the circumstances of our ministry, conditions over which we have little or no control.”
It is understandable that Rick and others would feel disappointment in the woeful participation on the OPAD threads, but on the positive side, we can remember what Jesus said to the downcast young man in paper 130:
130:6.4 (1438.1) “This day, my son, you are to be reborn, re-established as a man of faith, courage, and devoted service to man, for God’s sake. And when you become so readjusted to life within yourself, you become likewise readjusted to the universe; you have been born again — born of the spirit — and henceforth will your whole life become one of victorious accomplishment. Trouble will invigorate you; disappointment will spur you on; difficulties will challenge you; and obstacles will stimulate you. Arise, young man! Say farewell to the life of cringing fear and fleeing cowardice. Hasten back to duty and live your life in the flesh as a son of God, a mortal dedicated to the ennobling service of man on earth and destined to the superb and eternal service of God in eternity.”
Okay. I think I get what you guys are trying to tell me. I should just shut up, stop belly aching, abandon any hope of conversation, forget about fellowship and learn to be happy talking to imaginary people. I’ll get right on that. Thanks.
Okay. I think I get what you guys are trying to tell me. I should just shut up, stop belly aching, abandon any hope of conversation, forget about fellowship and learn to be happy talking to imaginary people. I’ll get right on that. Thanks.
In the past 7 days there has been active discussion on 5 different topics on this specific forum, with 6 *real people* participating. I think we are doing okay. (If this level of participation were to occur with an in-person, location-based study group, it would be a lively group indeed!)
However, Bonita, perhaps you prefer to talk to your ‘imaginary people’ since they are more likely to live up to your expectations.
Okay. I think I get what you guys are trying to tell me. I should just shut up, stop belly aching, abandon any hope of conversation, forget about fellowship and learn to be happy talking to imaginary people. I’ll get right on that. Thanks.
Okay, this is the type of response which has been imbedded within similar responses, where it is difficult to have an online discussion about any subject regarding the UB. It has been my experience that Bonita, will not address me or any of my posts directly, because in the past when I have agreed with her position, she considers me as being loyal to her, and when I disagree with something which she presents, I am disloyal to her.
Whether or not I agree with someone’s opinion about the UB or not, I may disagree with a specific point or way of interpreting what is narrated in the UB because it is not 100% the way I interpret that or a specific position. This is my way of bringing up a subject for additional debate, in order to stimulate a conversation. In the past I have presented my opinion on lucrative subject matter, because I believe that there could be additional ways to interpret a, or that subject. But, it has been the attitude of some, specifically Bonita and Brad, to interfere with any discussion that they feel is not the way they want it to go, so they start their tag-teaming efforts to browbeat those who will not comply with their belief as to how anyone should address any subject from the Urantia Book which does not comply with loyalty to their beliefs. This attitude, to me, is oppressive in nature and, I for one find it difficult to present anything which may present an alternative study of these narrations because when presenting something not to their approval, I am attacked.
If someone does not agree with what I present, that is fine, but to not ask me why I have presented something in such a way and just make an assumption that what I have presented is “poppycock” without giving me the opportunity to address an issue based on an appropriate question, is insulting, immature, and just plain unintelligent. Then there are the methods of antagonizing members of this forum present and past, as to their comments and personal information which have been presented to undermine a members privacy, which I have received threatening Emails based on such presented information, which has been taken from these violation of privacies. There are regulations posted on other forums which forbids this type of action, but alas the administration merely presents a warning instead of editing out the violation of privacy of these members.
So, it would seem that there are others who find it difficult to present their views here because of Bonita’s and Brad’s attacking them, and they have so presented their reasoning for no longer participating here because of this attitude. That’s why, I feel that there are so few persons participating on this forum.
However, Bonita, perhaps you prefer to talk to your ‘imaginary people’ since they are more likely to live up to your expectations.
Thanks for that Keryn.
Greetings friends!!
It would appear there is much disappointment to overcome….hahaha! And not the same for anyone. Too little participation, too much expectation, too much of…..ME (for one anyway)!!
Keryn – I appreciate you pointing out how common and how important and how great an opportunity is disappointment. We are taught that failure is actually the mirror to our true self as I recall. Disappointment, I learned long, long ago is a function of inappropriate or mismanaged “expectations” most often. We want what we want and we hope and strive for what we want but we do not get what we want – especially when we want/expect something perhaps that is not what’s best for our education and experience. I also recall something about the more we depend on others to achieve what we want, the more disappointment and frustration will attend our wanting/expectations. I always found that one very true in my experience but odd considering how important relationships and teamwork and kindred spirits are in the Papers. We are not to isolate ourselves and we are designed and built to do more and do better in cooperation and teams – joint ventures are our future!
I am reminded how important humor is in this and similar situations. Deep disappointment is an indicator of taking one’s self too seriously. The act is ours…but not the results. In our service to others, especially regarding dissemination, I have found much frustration, disappointment, and failure over the decades. But within all of that, I have experienced and witnessed great leaps of progress from time to time as well…enough to motivate continued effort and service. I have been a beneficiary of Sister Bonita’s tireless efforts to engage the student body at multiple forums and I have been inspired to persist in my own efforts by her noble strength and commitment to LEARNING! Bonita is the mellowest and most patient recently I have ever known her to be and I regret that anyone would accuse her of being an obstacle to sharing or caring or learning or teaching. Poppycock!! Get a grip, grow a pair, stand tall and quit sulking in the shadows (you know who you are). She has every right to be frustrated and disappointed as we all do by a perceived lack of success or support….we gain strength to persevere with God’s gentle push forward. I have no doubt she will cope just fine with that….hahaha….but I would be the loser if she felt unappreciated or unwanted here or anywhere else.
The movement of growing readership has a real need for true scholarship, insight, recall and integration of this thick book of facts and truth to understand, embrace, and employ the truths in the revelation. Such student-teachers need not be all fluffy and cuddly to be effective (however, personally I find Bonita to be both!). Bonita brings a discipline of accuracy to both her own expressions and discussions with others where the ego had best not be too fragile – she is demanding….as all my best teachers, coaches, and mentors have been which results in my being a much better student. I’ve learned far more in my five years on the forum with her (and many others to be sure) than I did in the prior 30+ years BECAUSE of her teaching style.
Do we strive for excellence? Or the “Participant’s Trophy”? Bonita makes me dig DEEP. To examine personal prejudice objectively. To set aside emotions and hurt “feelings” and to truly examine the challenges at hand as well as the destiny to come! So I would only ask that “style” points be put into perspective related to the value in discovering meanings within the complexities provided and the patterns revealed in the UB. Bonita is not my mommie or den mother….she’s a truth warrior who does not suffer fools (you know who you are) gladly and is impatient, perhaps, with prejudice and preconception and misconception. But mostly, like me, she is resolute against all misrepresentations, doubters, whiners, suspicions, fear mongers, revisionists, completionists, and all who would otherwise mangle and torture the 5th Epochal Revelation (you know who you are too!).
I’ll likely get slapped upside the head for the presumptuous defense of this noble mentor and champion of truth…by her herself!!
We are all seed sowers here. We learn from one another, we teach one another….but even more importantly, we build a foundation and till the soil for those still to arrive. Our small community needs one another to bolster each other in our times of frustration and disappointment and failure….by such an example we pave the road into the future. Let us continue to serve and to forget self in the serving.
As someone recently pointed out, there are many who wish for our failure by their constant yammering and complaining, especially against the most ardent and persistent ones who do not peddle in malarkey and darkness and doubts (one such one calls himself Caligastia at TruthBook and something else here, now, but several monikers he has hidden behind at earlier and other forums of students – but the voice and the view remain the same – and whose opinion carries less weight with me than the smallest of feathers as one who has the darkest of all perspectives – his put downs are the sweetest of any compliment to me!).
Anyway, here’s to better days ahead. Let us be about our Father’s business – sharing….and caring!!! I’ve been very busy but I look forward to this topic and the many more to come….here and the eternal adventure to come!
= )
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