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Bonita, now you see why someone leading the study might not work. Your questions are advanced as you are a long time student of the book. They are good ones though! That is why I intended this to be a personal journey, because everyone who tried to study the book in this way would have different questions depending on their level of understanding and their experience with the ub.
Yeah, but this is a forum for studying the book in a public manner. What’s wrong with trying your method publicly? In case you haven’t noticed, the forums are pretty much dead. They’ve devolved into sparing arenas rather than avenues of exploration and learning. Your study guide might be a useful way to generate some robust research and discussion on this forum. All questions welcomed and encouraged. So, is it okay if we study the book, or are we just supposed to be studying a way to study the book which we will then do in private?
And incidentally, I found plenty of information about things, meanings and values throughout the book, especially concentrated in papers: 9, 16, 100, 111 & 112.
You have excellent points Bonita. I have noticed the sparring that goes on here. No, there is nothing wrong with studying the ub publically. I just thought that a private study would be better. I never honestly considered how to adapt it to a group setting. Perhaps it would be a good idea to try this method, for let say, paper 1 and see what happens? It might be a spark to start a fire within our lives. But the question is how would we do it? If we have, say, four people studying the same material, do we have to wade through eight lists of questions per section, one for the asked questions, and another for the ones that are left? That could get rather complicated, especially if a lot of people try this format.
Would we post just one list each? And if so, would it be the questions after reading each section or the questions after we’ve deleted the ones that we can clearly answer as a result of the text we have read? That would make things less complicated… We could do it this way. Read and ask questions as I outlined in the guide. At the end of each section post the resultant questions that were asked. Then go back through the document and delete the ones that can be answered as a result of the reading. The questions that are left will be posted when the next section is posted. That way we’d only have to wade through one list for each person instead of two per section. The unanswered questions will be posted with the next one anyway… Hmmm. Now how can we avoid repeat questions? They will be unavoidable as multiple people are studying the same material. I suppose there is no help for that. In the forum as I recall, the questions would be sorted and the duplicates discarded before the next paper was given. But sence we are scattered to the four corners of the earth, that step wouldn’t work here.
Also, not that I would care about this aspect of it, but it would look odd, to say the least, to have page after page after page of people asking questions with no answers given. Imagine if you were new and saw page 300 of this topic. You then click on a random page and all you see is questions questions and more questions.
Also, would this be a daily or weekly study? How many sections would we try to get through, for example, if it were a daily study? I wonder how many sections are in the ub anyway?
One last thought. Would we use this topic for our study or create another? If so, would we create topics for each section or paper? Then again, it might be a good idea to just keep everything related to this little prodject here on this topic. Just a thought.
Thanks for the papers that mention things meanings and values by the way.
Chucksmith, I think you’re way over thinking this. The simpler the better. As far as I can tell you and I are the only participants, although gene showed some interest, I think. No matter, people can join the study at any time.
I think we begin at paper 1. Did I understand you correctly that you ask questions after reading section 0 then read the rest of the paper and see if your questions are answered? I already posted my questions, I will read the rest of the paper and then go back and post answers to the questions I have found answers to. If it is just the two of us, then you are free to debate, discuss or supply additional information to my answers if you like. You would do the same with your questions and I would comment on your answers. If there are questions unanswered by a reading of the paper, then it is either because the answer is not there or we both missed it. Maybe someone else will know and post it.
I don’t think it’s that hard really. Just asking questions gets people thinking and researching. If you put too many rules on the process it will dry up and die. All you have to do is start a topic for each paper (one at a time), maybe reproduce the paper or offer a link to it, and ask participants to read section 0 and formulate questions they hope will be answered by reading the entire paper, then let ‘er rip! The topic will never close because new people will come along and ask their questions (I know, I’m dreaming). See how paper 1 goes first. If it works, then go to the next paper. Play it by ear. (Just a heads up. There are some people on this forum who take weeks, months and even years to answer a post, so you can’t put a time limit on it. I was upset about that once and got read the riot act, so don’t go there. Just sayin’)
Anyway, I’m psyched. I already started researching some of my questions because I want to know the answers for myself. I found out a few interesting things. It would be cool to share what I discovered and I would post these things even without you starting the study project, but this place is so dead that it seems almost fruitless. Rick does that, and I give him credit, but I like a little back and forth . . . just me being weird.
I agree with you about this place being dead. Do you know of any other Urantia book forums? I know about Truthbook, but I can’t use it as my Screen Reader has trouble with it.
As for my question/answer plan (we really have to come up with a better name) I was thinking take it section by section. See what questions could be asked/answered in section 1 etc. By the way, just call me Chuck.
Also, I just emailed UAI a couple of questions. I’ll wait on their reply before considering starting this prodject.
chucksmith1982 wrote: Do you know of any other Urantia book forums?No sane ones. Sorry.
chucksmith1982 wrote: we really have to come up with a better nameHow about Chuck’s Pilot Study: Paper 1
chucksmith1982 wrote: I’ll wait on their reply before considering starting this prodject.I didn’t mean for it to be such a big production . . . just a trial run for fun. You do know that if you get more than two people participating, it will be a miracle, right?
We’re all a little insane…
Good idea for the name.
I was trying to see how the online study group forum worked. I haven’t figured out where the create topics button is.
I also had a couple other questions I wanted to ask them as well. I’m actually wondering if the Urantia movement is dying out. I know of several religious movements that have died over the years… some of them quite literally. The people all died and left no one to replace them. Will that happen to our movement? Will we be a footnote in someones dusty and unread history of religious movements? I remember one movement in particular known as the Shakers. In college I learned about them in music class. There were only five left of that faith community. They were all elderly and when they died, the movement would die. That is why I have a passion for the youth. That, plus I’m 33 and am the youngest in the ub study group I attend.I was trying to see how the online study group forum worked. I haven’t figured out where the create topics button is.
I asked that question back when the forum first opened. They said it was coming. I’ve been patient, but I’m now convinced that it will never happen. Don’t hold your breath.
I wanted to ask them as well. I’m actually wondering if the Urantia movement is dying out.
No, I think it’s moved to Facebook and other social media platforms. I don’t do Facebook because it’s creepy. I think an email went out recently recruiting seasoned readers for the Facebook Urantia Study Group, or something like that. I deleted it, sorry. Someone here, probably Bradly, would know.
33 years old huh? I’m old enough to be your grandmother. Anyway, I think it’s wonderful that young people are interested in studying TUB. It means that there is a future, so keep it up!
I’m one of the few people my age who doesn’t do facebook either… and much of my reasoning agrees with yours.
So you are saying that, like me, the only interaction that you get with the ub community is on this forum and in your local study group?
I’m still here
typically as background noise for lack of a better way to put it.
its not always easy for me to participate in conversations, I tend to do more reading and appreciating.
still thinking about Bonitas question #2
i believe as with all biblical quotes, the authors use them to expand and clarify what has value in their writings.
as the divine counselor also talks about sons of God, what about the the experiential trinities?
and what do you think is meant by “covers himself with light as a garment” ?
another thought: the truth of the statement could refer to the Creator Sons and a fact of the statement could refer to God manifesting his nature as the original trinity-just thinking.
chucksmith1982 wrote: So you are saying that, like me, the only interaction that you get with the ub community is on this forum and in your local study group?Yes, except there is no study group in my area. And because the UB community attracts mostly wackos, I am not interested in starting one either. Can’t handle it, frankly. My days of entertaining the absurd are over. Common sense, basic and simple, is about all I can deal with now.
Gene wrote: and what do you think is meant by “covers himself with light as a garment” ?My first thought was the three types of light: material light, intellectual insight and spiritual luminosity.
0:6.9 Light — spirit luminosity — is a word symbol, a figure of speech, which connotes the personality manifestation characteristic of spirit beings of diverse orders. This luminous emanation is in no respect related either to intellectual insight or to physical-light manifestations.
I think spirit luminosity has to do with personality and the Father’s personality spreads out over all reality like a garment. Also, they say that the spirit luminosity of the Father cannot be seen by mortals except by the spiritualized mind.
1:3.3 The glory and the spiritual brilliance of the divine personality presence is impossible of approach by the lower groups of spirit beings or by any order of material personalities. The spiritual luminosity of the Father’s personal presence is a “light which no mortal man can approach; which no material creature has seen or can see.” But it is not necessary to see God with the eyes of the flesh in order to discern him by the faith-vision of the spiritualized mind.
But here we’ve moved on already to section 3 of the first paper, supplemented by the Foreword, which begins to answer a question asked in section 0.
Amen to that Bonita! Seems like the wackos are taking over sometimes. There is no local study group in my area either. I am a part of a UB study group that meets using Zoom. As for your observation that we are jumping ahead to section 3, my thoughts on that are go ahead. Even if my method isn’t used, anything can spark a discussion.
chucksmith1982 wrote: I am a part of a UB study group that meets using Zoom.That’s very interesting. UB study by video conferencing is definitely futuristic. I’d participate in something like that if I had any idea how to set it up. My technical ability is limited, although I do amaze myself sometimes. Still having trouble with the so-called smart TV though. One of us is not so smart, as it turns out. I’m guessing it’s me.
Anyway, I do like the idea of writing down lists of questions to share publicly. That is one of the problems here. If you have noticed a lot of the postings have been just inspirational quotes and essays. That’s fine, but it doesn’t generate discussion. Questions always seem to generate discussion. People want to help others answer questions, it’s human nature to want to help. I don’t think it matters a whole lot how the questions get answered as long as people are interested in trying to answer them by studying the book a little deeper each time.
Forums are places where viewpoints, ideas and opinions are shared. I think inspirational material is good, but there should be more exchange of ideas. Rodan had something to say about that; he gave four reasons for human association (160:2.6-9) and they’re all very good. My favorite is: Many noble human impulses die because there is no one to hear their expression. (160:2.6)
You can use Zoom by phone as well as computer. For the phone version you simply need the phone number to Zoom and the id number of the meeting you want to participate in.
For the software version a member of the group emails you an invitation and you click on the link provided. The software is downloaded to your computer and it is just a matter of clicking on it and following the directions. I don’t know how to set one up either. People use Skype as well. You might want to check out the study group directory to see if there is a virtual study group near you… If not, I’m sure any of them would be glad to have you. That’s the advantage of online study groups.
Don’t feel bad about the Smart TV. I have a problem with Smart phones. I much prefer dumb tvs and dumb phones. Call me old fashioned, but that’s just me.
As for posting the questions publicly, I’m not sure if it would attract enough people to make it worthwhile. I find the lack of interest in this topic rather depressing. You and I have been the only ones who have shown any sustained interest in the subject under discussion. I’d hate for us to be the only ones interested. Based on the lack of sustained response, I think that that is what would happen. I think my idea for “starting a fire” just “fizzled out.”
chucksmith1982 wrote: I find the lack of interest in this topic rather depressing. . . . I’d hate for us to be the only ones interested.I hear you, I really do. Months and months have gone by on this forum where only two people have talked to each other and then it usually ends up being just one person talking to him/herself. For some reason I think most people who come here only read and don’t post, and there’s no way to know if anyone is actually reading your posts, so I can certainly understand why you think it would be a waste of time. But it’s a shame that it is this way. A real shame and depressing too, I agree.
But here’s the thing. One of the hurdles to spiritual growth is discouragement. We’re told that the angels are always trying to stimulate our growth by challenging us. If we give up with every little disappointment, then evil is winning. I often give into ennui myself, but I regret it every time. That’s why my favorite quote in TUB is 26:5.3. It says we’re supposed to invigorate in the presence of difficulties. The harder it is the more excited we’re supposed to get, and that always puts a smile on my face.
The trick, of course, is being able to recognize the difference between trying to act out something that is true, versus acting out something that is not true. Both can be difficult. Truth can be difficult because it takes psychic effort. Untruth is difficult because it is unreal and cannot work no matter how hard you try. I think the difference is the level of personal satisfaction and happiness. If it’s making you miserable, then it’s probably a waste of time. Only you can know for sure. But, if you don’t actually try you’ll never know.
Urantia mortals can hardly hope to be perfect in the infinite sense, but it is entirely possible for human beings, starting out as they do on this planet, to attain the supernal and divine goal which the infinite God has set for mortal man; and when they do achieve this destiny, they will, in all that pertains to self-realization and mind attainment, be just as replete in their sphere of divine perfection as God himself is in his sphere of infinity and eternity. Such perfection may not be universal in the material sense, unlimited in intellectual grasp, or final in spiritual experience, but it is final and complete in all finite aspects of divinity of will, perfection of personality motivation, and God-consciousness
This quote to me, summarizes Gods mandate to be perfect even as he is.
I can think about it in relation to attaining finaliter status or, perhaps learning to be perfect and become replete in self realization and mind attainment here on Urantia and at every Morontia world we live on and so on for every phase of existance between Urantia and finaliter status???
kind of a measuring tool. But that would suggest that perfection is relative.
I’ll add that being replete in self realization and mind attainment says you are aware of your perfection??
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