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The movement of growing readership has a real need for true scholarship, insight, recall and integration of this thick book of facts and truth to understand, embrace, and employ the truths in the revelation. Such student-teachers need not be all fluffy and cuddly to be effective (however, personally I find Bonita to be both!). Bonita brings a discipline of accuracy to both her own expressions and discussions with others where the ego had best not be too fragile – she is demanding….as all my best teachers, coaches, and mentors have been which results in my being a much better student. [. . .]
Bradly, this is the point which I have made; although you perceive Bonita as the teacher here on this forum, I do not. She and you are participant’s in a public forum, as are we all but, you as you present and based on Bonita’s self-image as what you profess her to be as one of your “teachers, coaches, and mentors” is of coarse your prerogative, but as you indicated that “she is demanding”, indicates that you and she feel that as the teaching staff here demands utmost respect and obedience? Not so. It is this attitude which is being questioned here and being demonstrated with your response, although as I have mentioned before, your presentation style is that of someone on a pulpit handing out your sermon to his sinful flock.
Bonita is not my mommie or den mother….she’s a truth warrior who does not suffer fools (you know who you are) gladly and is impatient, perhaps, with prejudice and preconception and misconception. But mostly, like me, she is resolute against all misrepresentations, doubters, whiners, suspicions, fear mongers, revisionists, completionists, and all who would otherwise mangle and torture the 5th Epochal Revelation (you know who you are too!).
Based on you statement above you make yourself and Bonita to be the guardians of “the 5th Epochal Revelation” and like others who perceive themselves to be the only inheritors of that which is narrated in this Book, and also like those who profess the Bible to be the only word of God to be observed by those who interpret words in a book to be their mandate to do or say as they wish, and punish those who find alternative meaning therein, where they proclaim themselves as priests and clerics of God, are forming a sect or religion of their own. Of course this is everyone’s prerogative to believe as they wish but, does not give them the right to force their opinion upon others, “(you know who you are too!).”
As an addendum to Bradly’s quote above, I must indicate that by its context along it presents a judgment against all who do not see what is presented in “the 5th Epochal Revelation” as has been interpreted by Bonita and Bradly. By making such a judgment, would it not indicate that you both are above all others who present here? Thereby, making yourselves as superior to all others? If this is the case then how could anyone ever present anything that would be considered as an open discussion on this forum? Why bother, have the God’s spoken — I wonder?
We are all seed sowers here. We learn from one another, we teach one another….but even more importantly, we build a foundation and till the soil for those still to arrive. Our small community needs one another to bolster each other in our times of frustration and disappointment and failure….by such an example we pave the road into the future. Let us continue to serve and to forget self in the serving.
Remember the seed sowers parable where the weeds are allowed to grow with the sown crop and only until harvest time are the weeds to be segregated. Although, it would appear that you wish to uproot the crop with the what you perceive to be weeds, yet you know not the difference between the two? One must keep in mind that you are NOT in service here but participants on an open public forum where there will be many opinions which may question the context of the UB, and it might service better to forget self and open your mind to others instead of attempting to take away their self-respect?
As someone recently pointed out, there are many who wish for our failure by their constant yammering and complaining, especially against the most ardent and persistent ones who do not peddle in malarkey and darkness and doubts (one such one calls himself Caligastia at TruthBook and something else here, now, but several monikers he has hidden behind at earlier and other forums of students – but the voice and the view remain the same – and whose opinion carries less weight with me than the smallest of feathers as one who has the darkest of all perspectives – his put downs are the sweetest of any compliment to me!).
Bradly, I am not hiding behind any monikers, as you indicate above. However, you have never asked me to explain anything whatsoever that I have ever presented, never; only have you attempted to ridicule, in order to discredit, those things which, by your responses, do not seem to have the ability nor intellect to respond in a manor which would otherwise warrant a debate. As a matter of fact you have stated many times that you will not debate me or others who do not see your position as being absolute. Therefore, seem to bombard any attempt to an open mind through a collection of words which you wordsmith together in a way as to degrade and insult your opponents with overkill, in hopes to confuse those readers to think that you actually know what you are talking about. So be it. As I see it, this is not the way that Jesus taught us to conduct ourselves with others.
I have no problem with Bonita as a person and I have acknowledge that she is well informed with much information, although be it that anyone should disagree with what she may present, which I have been a party too on more than one occasion. But, she is not my teacher, nor do I accept her to be. I refrain from presenting why she seems to have no feelings for others who are not loyal to her, but I can only observe by what is being presented here and on other forums where even by your own admission she hides behind another moniker herself, which I can only assume that if it were known that she would not be accepted as herself. Nevertheless, I for one hope that this forum can be opened up to all with alternative opinions or thoughts about the context of the Urantia Book, without sacrificing their self-respect.
Look folks. This plea of mine for more participation is because I am bothered by the fact that Chuck, a young enthusiastic poster with a potentially good idea gets nothing but crickets here. Gene starts a topic and there’s nothing but crickets. It’s not about me being disappointed because no one pays attention to me. I’m lamenting the overall lack of interest and I really don’t appreciate the moralizing in response to my concern. We should all care about this. And BTW, I was gone for a long time and there was no participation then either. It seems to me that this type of study venue is on its way out. If that’s okay with all of you, it’s okay with me.
Bradly wrote: Our small community needs one another to bolster each other in our times of frustration and disappointment and failure….by such an example we pave the road into the future. Let us continue to serve and to forget self in the serving.Exactly Bradly! Well said. Thanks so much for understanding what I’m talking about here. And thanks for your unending work to keep TUB from being spoiled by “doubters, whiners, suspicions, fear mongers, revisionists, completionists” and those pesky and egomaniacal first circlers and reservists, you know who you are. Job well done Bradly! Thank you.
Here, I am talking head to head with you 2 members of my Family.
MidiChlorian / Bradley.
How can our Father Michael loves not all of His children?
Will a creature raised up and prove otherwise?
So, do I love both of you.
And so must we clearly recognize that neither the golden rule nor the teaching of nonresistance can ever be properly understood as dogmas or precepts. They can only be comprehended by living them, by realizing their meanings in the living interpretation of the Spirit of Truth, who directs the loving contact of one human being with another. 180:5.11
Aggressivity is a tool, but not towards one another.
The spirit of the Master’s injunction consists in the nonresistance of all selfish reaction to the universe, coupled with the aggressive and progressive attainment of righteous levels of true spirit values: divine beauty, infinite goodness, and eternal truth — to know God and to become increasingly like him. 180:5.9
According to the midwayers, “Love, unselfishness, must undergo a constant and living readaptative interpretation of relationships in accordance with the leading of the Spirit of Truth.” 180:5.10 RickIf you have a switch to make, don’t try to be subtle or clever. Use a pile driver. Hit the point once. Then come back and hit it again. Then hit it a third time – a tremendous whack.
Golden rule /non-resistance do we realize, brothers it’s meaning?Milk tooth has fallen a while ago, why persist feeding on breast milk?God, Our Beloved Thoughts Adjuster dresses a gorgeous table. Michael tell us to sit and enjoy.Would we accept the invitation, seat and eat all 3 of us? Enjoy our fraternity?Providence: … even those things which “God has prepared for those who love such eternal verities.” 24:6.2 Imagine the blessing, doing our ascension together. Thought impossible? nothing impossible for God.View this film, it might be a preview.
Loving brotherhood,Andrép.s. the inspiring “pièce de résistance” …. http://urantia-book.org/archive/readers/doc096.htm by Peter Laurence.
Thanks Andre! Peacemaker. My over reaction should have been more muted and less personal. And thanks for reminding us all of the “silent” ones who attend. Increasing both posters and the audience of readers is an important objective for this site I know. I would be mortified to learn that my participation here or anywhere depopulates either group – posters or readers. But that’s one theory.
There is no THE teacher here or anywhere. All teach. Some do so primarily by the questions they pose which require reflection, research, and articulation of perspective and experience by others which then further allows triangulation and expansion of appreciation and understanding by all. Some do so by providing opportunity for self mastery and controlling one’s tongue. And some have an agenda of disruption and insertion of doubt, fear, and falsehood where silence becomes agreement but argument becomes discordant. Those provide opportunity to learn how better to express disagreement with less discord and find ways to integrate such challenges more harmoniously. It will forever be so.
Like Keryn, I have far more interest often than time….or anything to contribute in the moment to a particular topic/conversation; but I do read along every day. And like chuck and Bonita, I am often disappointed that there’s not more posting and participation. Everything offers opportunity to learn something…about others, about ourselves, about the Papers, about the challenges of being and living and growing….especially, perhaps, does our disappointments and frustrations offer such opportunity. I always found the feasting and fattening quote a paradoxical challenge:
26:5.3 (291.3) That, then, is the primary or elementary course which confronts the faith-tested and much-traveled pilgrims of space. But long before reaching Havona, these ascendant children of time have learned to feast upon uncertainty, to fatten upon disappointment, to enthuse over apparent defeat, to invigorate in the presence of difficulties, to exhibit indomitable courage in the face of immensity, and to exercise unconquerable faith when confronted with the challenge of the inexplicable. Long since, the battle cry of these pilgrims became: “In liaison with God, nothing — absolutely nothing — is impossible.”
160:2.9 (1776.3) 4. The enhanced defense against all evil. Personality association and mutual affection is an efficient insurance against evil. Difficulties, sorrow, disappointment, and defeat are more painful and disheartening when borne alone. Association does not transmute evil into righteousness, but it does aid in greatly lessening the sting. Said your Master, “Happy are they who mourn” — if a friend is at hand to comfort. There is positive strength in the knowledge that you live for the welfare of others, and that these others likewise live for your welfare and advancement. Man languishes in isolation. Human beings unfailingly become discouraged when they view only the transitory transactions of time. The present, when divorced from the past and the future, becomes exasperatingly trivial. Only a glimpse of the circle of eternity can inspire man to do his best and can challenge the best in him to do its utmost. And when man is thus at his best, he lives most unselfishly for the good of others, his fellow sojourners in time and eternity.
Me here: It would seem that the expressions of our disappointments should be met with fellowship and support? An important role for any community….common-unity. And when one is accused and attacked? A thornier problem to be sure. So much to learn. How to respond to all situations and circumstances, including uncertainty and disappointment and failure and embarrassment are notable and normal challenges we must all learn by to achieve our potential.
Cheers! = )
Thanks all for contributing and for discussing this issue. I’ve been giving the matter considerable thought and have decided that back and forth dialogue is just not going to happen. There are too many obstacles to discourse. It seems that there is always an excuse of some kind and I’m not one to judge on the legitimacy of any of those excuses. They are what they are.
So here’s what I plan to do as an experiment. I will no longer engage in dialogue of any kind on this forum. I will read along, like so many others, and when something moves my passions or piques my curiosity, I will write an essay or start a series of posts on a given subject without any expectation of response from anyone, positive or negative. If someone contributes, don’t expect a response from me. I will not entertain questions. My participation here will be a one-way street from now on. Personally I think it’s crap, but it is what it is. I’m curious to see how it goes.
Bradly wrote: Me here: It would seem that the expressions of our disappointments should be met with fellowship and support? An important role for any community….common-unity. And when one is accused and attacked? A thornier problem to be sure. So much to learn. How to respond to all situations and circumstances, including uncertainty and disappointment and failure and embarrassment are notable and normal challenges we must all learn by to achieve our potential. Cheers! = )Bradly, I agree that we should be supportive when others express disappointment and we should strive for common-unity. I admit to my personal failure at doing so, mainly because I reacted badly to Bonita’ statement, below.Well, it’s good to hear another person with the same level of concern over the lack of participation here. And I agree that it does take the wind out of your sail and make you want to do other things than study. You know how Gene wanted to talk about angels and then didn’t? Well, angels are in charge of groups of people and they also stimulate human relationships, probably in groups. Perhaps this is not a group the angels are interested in stimulating. My feeling is, if it takes so much effort to get people interested in something, then you’re doing it all wrong. Either that, or it shouldn’t be done at all. It’s hard to tell.
I think that is a reprehensible thing to say to a group – particularly while striving to encourage sincere expressions and perspectives about a revelation that is so near and dear to all of our hearts. Furthermore, her term “imaginary people” to refer to those who read and do not post is derogatory and belittling, and yet, when I repeated *her* phrase to make a point, she expressed personal offense.All that said, back on topic of maximizing our study of TUB. My most recent attempt to maximize my personal study of the book was to use tiny sticky tabs, color-coded as to whether I had a question, or it inspired or encouraged me, or was in some way intellectually challenging. I did that diligently throughout about 1/3 of the book, but the book was fanned with so many sticky notes, typically several on one page, throughout, that it became impossibly unwieldy to try to then draw further insights from it! I have to laugh at myself a little bit, at the hopelessness of my ‘method’.So it’s back to the drawing board for me, haha.
I’m going to post what I call a Lifetime Urantia Book Study guide below. Please feel free to comment. Also feel free to pass on these suggestions if you find them helpful in your own study.
I think you hit the mark to refer to a lifetime Urantia Book study. The book is a primer for us. A beginning. This is the book this website is all about! This is the book that stimulates our relationships with each other on this website. I wouldn’t be here were it not for the book. This forum is a place to practice what we preach.
My study group meets once a week. I started it 26 1/2 years ago in my home. I like to think the angels had something to do with bringing all of us together back then, but over the years I think personal choice to participate in a group setting has kept us together. Group study is about personal choice. It takes much effort for a person to get his/her act together to actually travel to a location to study during the evening (7 PM) on a work night!!!
Last week we had two reader visitors, one who lives a mile away from me and another who lives two miles away from me. One is a reader for 30 years; the other 20 years. One is enthralled into having out-of-body experiences. The other is all into ACIM, arguing that since ACIM came after the UB, it has to be better than the UB. Oh, well, to each his own interests. Over the years we’ve had many, many visitors whom we met but who were interested in something else. The reason I mention this is to point out the main reason we meet every single week is to study the UB period. And this we will do going forward. Like you say Chuck, study of the UB takes a lifetime. It is so fruitful to study together. It’s dynamic. There is no substitute for it. The truth is this: all you have to do is find one other person who wants to study. Pick a time and a location and start your study. It’s really very simple. All you need is one other person!
On this website we have a handful of people. How wonderful! I do not think the angels of our supervision are trying to make it easy for us. Perfect we are not.
32:3:11 In all this is shown the wisdom of the Creators. It would be just as easy for the Universal Father to make all mortals perfect beings, to impart perfection by his divine word. But that would deprive them of the wonderful experience of the adventure and training associated with the long and gradual inward climb, an experience to be had only by those who are so fortunate as to begin at the very bottom of living existence.Bonita wrote:
“and when something moves my passions or piques my curiosity, I will write an essay or start a series of posts…”
You had me at “moves my passions“. I for one look forward with anticipation to such gems
Nigel
Thank you Bonita. Your support truly encouraged me.
As for the last post, the one who said that it only takes one other to start a study group, (I’m sorry that I didn’t catch your name) what do you do if you know no one interested in the ub? I’ve tried to get others that I know interested. The only ub students that I know on a personal level (and then not very well) are those that are in my Zoom study group. They are scattered all over Alabama though. Our group has been as large as six (I think) and as small as me and one other. On those meetings where it is just me and one other, we usually talk about things other than the ub as we want the rest of the group to participate.
My fear though is that the ub study group that I am a part of will die out as, like this forum, participation is becoming less and less. The sad thing though is the group is less than a year old.
I have read of other religious movements that died out, in one case literally, due to no one younger choosing to follow the religion. I fear that same thing happening with the UB believers.
We had an Alabama Urantia gathering a year and a half ago. The person who organized the gathering was able to find 50 names throughout Alabama after requesting contact information from the foundation, uai, and the fellowship. Out of those 50, a little over 30 showed up. I was the youngest at the gathering via skype. Out of those 30 plus, only a hand full were interested in starting a ub study group. Out of that hand full, our group has shrunk to as small as two… On a couple of meetings, one of the two was me. I fear that the ub revelation will die in Alabama due to lack of interest. I’m the youngest in our study group, the rest being of retirement age.
Based on participation here, I fear the same thing happening here as seems to be happening in my study group. Assuming that this forum is a microcosm of the rest of the ub community, it is not looking good for followers of the ub. If the older generation dies out, it appears as if belief in the ub will die out as well… either that or a lack of participation from those who profess belief in the ub will kill the movement.
Chucksmith,
I often share your worries about the aging population of Urantia Book readers, but then I look around online and I find vibrant communities of young readers. Here are a couple of examples:
Look at the young faces in the profiles on the Urantia Family Ties website http://urantiafamilyties.com/
This website is designed specifically to appeal to younger readers http://urantianow.com/about/our-vision/
Here is an article “Where are the Youth?” (be sure and look at the comments, too). http://urantianow.com/where-are-the-youth/
There is even a specific study group for young readers (ages 15-40) http://urantianow.com/10113-2/
. . . what do you do if you know no one interested in the ub? I’ve tried to get others that I know interested. The only ub students that I know on a personal level (and then not very well) are those that are in my Zoom study group.
It is wonderful you have a Zoom group. You have at least one other reader to talk to on a regular basis. That counts for a lot I think. Take the lead and start reading the book together. It doesn’t have to follow the study guide you envision which is an intense and focused approach to study – one which seasoned readers might be interested in. Start on page one and read out loud to one another. If you have a question, stop and discuss it. Keep it simple.
My fear though is that the ub study group that I am a part of will die out as, like this forum, participation is becoming less and less. The sad thing though is the group is less than a year old.
This forum isn’t dying out. You’re here. I’m here. Others are here. I feel your discouragement. But we are the core group here. It takes a lot of courage to commit your thoughts and ideas on a blog. And it takes even more courage to endure a smack-down of one’s ideas or interpretations, and come back to this blog and try again. I call it persistence. Reminds me of when Jesus talked about prayer:
144:2:3 “Prayer is the breath of the soul and should lead you to be persistent in your attempt to ascertain the Father’s will. If any one of you has a neighbor, and you go to him at midnight and say: ‘Friend, lend me three loaves, for a friend of mine on a journey has come to see me, and I have nothing to set before him’; and if your neighbor answers, ‘Trouble me not, for the door is now shut and the children and I are in bed; therefore I cannot rise and give you bread,’ you will persist, explaining that your friend hungers, and that you have no food to offer him. I say to you, though your neighbor will not rise and give you bread because he is your friend, yet because of your importunity he will get up and give you as many loaves as you need. If, then, persistence will win favors even from mortal man, how much more will your persistence in the spirit win the bread of life for you from the willing hands of the Father in heaven. Again I say to you: Ask and it shall be given you; seek and you shall find; knock and it shall be opened to you. For every one who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks the door of salvation will be opened.”In all of my experience with other readers I notice there is always a core group. They are the steadfast human corps of readers who are motivated to provide a place, physical and digital, for other people who want to study the book. It’s a long-term project that will not fail. Worry about that is a waste of time in my opinion. I infer from the following remarks Urantia mortals have a thousand years more or less of creative speculation upon the partially revealed concepts in the papers in the UB.30:0:2 It is not possible to formulate comprehensive and entirely consistent classifications of the personalities of the grand universe because all of the groups are not revealed. It would require numerous additional papers to cover the further revelation required to systematically classify all groups. Such conceptual expansion would hardly be desirable as it would deprive the thinking mortals of the next thousand years of that stimulus to creative speculation which these partially revealed concepts supply. It is best that man not have an overrevelation; it stifles imagination.You are part of the core group, if your discouragement does not overcome you. Jump in anywhere and share your thoughts. Keryn – you should see my first UB – notes and text references in every margin – 3 colors of pencils underlining most of the book to color code the primary topics. Back in the stone age there were no search engines or on line scholars to be found or used. I remember weeping one day in a public library when I first discovered the Concordex (original cross reference index) and the Paramony (a double cross reference between the Bible and UB). I had no form of reference or research for 5+ years and then those two works for 25+ years. Now? I’m in tall cotton!!!
chuck – truly the UB movement is exploding around the world and much of that growth is quite youthful and energetic in many places, especially Latin America and Asia and Eastern Europe and Africa. It is a mistake to view the movement through the Western or USA lense; this is now a global phenomenon. The International Association has local and national groups in over 25 countries and more all the time. The new digital technologies are creating an explosion of awareness and access and sharing. Been to FaceBook lately? Search “Urantia” and stand back! Have you googled all the many sites? There are blogs, talk radio, forums, zoom study groups by language, continent, age, time zones, etc. So many ways to get involved with other readers. Indeed, this is the primary mission of Urantia Association – dissemination of the UB and teachings AND connectivity of the readership, volunteers, and activists. Geography used to matter to gather together…not anymore!
The study group Keryn mentioned just started a new session. Should be a link here at the website but let me know if you need help getting connected. And you might really enjoy the Urantia Book Internet School too – I’ve taken 3 classes there with readers from around the world….a delightful experience: http://ubis.urantia.org/moodle/
We are only as isolated as we choose in the new world of social fraternity. Thanks to all!
Thanks to all who responded. your words of encouragement and the resources you posted mean a lot to me. There were a few I didn’t know about.
It might be a good idea if someone posted a new topic, Urantia Book Resources. In this topic, would be a list of all good ub websites. Yes, I googled Urantia, but for the most part, unless I hear about it from the UB community what I usually find is on the negative side of the spectrum. As for facebook, I personally don’t use it. I’m the kind of person that actually likes to interact with someone other than from behind a keyboard. The only problem is that the ub community is so geographically scattered that that is not possible for me. I’m comfortable with forums like this one, but the only other ub forum that I’ve found is on Truthbook and as a blind computer user I find it impossible to use. I have posted comments on blog posts before though. I am comfortable, to an extent, with skype and zoom though.
Thanks again.
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