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Posts
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Or, is it okay to do as you please?
Yes, so long as you don’t fight Authority.
This is a poppycock alert, a service I render for those invisible persons who may read, now or in the future, but do not post, especially new readers.
Paradise can be a state of mind for third eye yoga enthusiasts, but for the rest of us, it is an actual place with a real life location and a real life purpose.
0:4:12 The Isle of Paradise — Paradise not otherwise qualified — is the Absolute of the material-gravity control of the First Source and Center. Paradise is motionless, being the only stationary thing in the universe of universes. The Isle of Paradise has a universe location but no position in space. This eternal Isle is the actual source of the physical universes — past, present, and future. The nuclear Isle of Light is a Deity derivative, but it is hardly Deity; neither are the material creations a part of Deity; they are a consequence.
Also, for those who wonder if Lucifer’s attack on the ascension plan was because it failed to teach the Father’s omnipresence, here is what he actually believed:
53:3.6 3. The attack upon the universal plan of ascendant mortal training. Lucifer maintained that far too much time and energy were expended upon the scheme of so thoroughly training ascending mortals in the principles of universe administration, principles which he alleged were unethical and unsound. He protested against the agelong program for preparing the mortals of space for some unknown destiny and pointed to the presence of the finaliter corps on Jerusem as proof that these mortals had spent ages of preparation for some destiny of pure fiction. With derision he pointed out that the finaliters had encountered a destiny no more glorious than to be returned to humble spheres similar to those of their origin. He intimated that they had been debauched by overmuch discipline and prolonged training, and that they were in reality traitors to their mortal fellows since they were now co-operating with the scheme of enslaving all creation to the fictions of a mythical eternal destiny for ascending mortals. He advocated that ascenders should enjoy the liberty of individual self-determination. He challenged and condemned the entire plan of mortal ascension as sponsored by the Paradise Sons of God and supported by the Infinite Spirit.
But since we don’t know if this Manifesto is the actual Manifesto, I guess the only way to find out what Lucifer really said is to go to Lucifer himself and ask him. Of course, if you do that you are sympathizing with him and giving him the attention he so desperately craves, being as he’s so isolated and everything. And isn’t that exactly what Lucifer Lackeys want most desperately too, to give their Lord more attention and sympathy, to keep him and his lies alive? So, to any of you imaginary celestials reading this post, you know that the Lucifer Lackeys want you to schedule a trip to the detention sphere while you’re visiting this universe so you can hobnob with the rebellious elite and be impressed by their brilliance.
Therefore, I have tagged Bradly’s post as “inappropriate content” an attempt to discredit me here, by inferring lies, not to mention that by implementing someone else, from another forum, who has acted based on Bradly’s own hatred for me and admitted to continue his attack against me as deliberate defamation, which if it were not that a certain amount of anonymity was not expected here, I would be suing him personally but then there has been no loss of revenue to retrieve. But as I have presented before he is only practicing his ideologue, where he feels he must zealously advocates his ideology but as being a professed tadpole who does not wish to progress to the next step in evolution, I can only sympathize that all do not have the intellect to follow teaching as presented by Jesus.
Me here: To be clear Midi, I don’t hate…not you or anyone else. And your voice at TB met with much refutation from over a dozen posters there with all the same text and arguments presented here…also by more than my singular voice. I do not argue ideology. My words are my opinion, the words from the UB presents facts and truths to be embraced by each readers philosophy of living and personal religious experience…it is quite articulate and speaks very well for itself.
Now as to my “tadpoleness”. I’ve long found that metaphor/analogy very interesting. My proposition regarding that quote is simple: those who are not yet fused (still on planet or the mansion worlds) are not yet frogs. Tadpoles move through many stages of transformation, much like we move through the 7 circles of spiritization, and then they become a whole new and different being altogether – a true metamorphosis. Profoundly illustrative to me. The author might have used any example…like a lamb becoming a sheep, etc. But did not. Instead chose a most unique natural example which experiences sequential changes of progress to become something/someone wholly new – from all tail and gills to all legs and lungs which escapes the environment of birth to exist in another dimension of reality while still being quite functional in the environment of birth!!
So when I say I am a tadpole, I am not humble…only realistic. When I say others are my fellow tadpoles, I do not insult them or even categorize them…each tadpole is at a very personal point of transformation while not yet frog! I can assure you I do progress….by loyally being a confident, even exuberant tadpole!! I am most happy with life in this little pond called Urantia and quite confident in my destiny in this friendly and orderly universe ruled by love!!
None of my posts are intended to change you Midi, only to provide contrast with your claims, insinuations, and tormenting of text. And it is my sincere hope that you and all others will also come to gain confidence in our life as tadpoles and our destiny of fusion and ultimate finality. The UB gives cause for celebration, confidence, happiness, joy, jubilation, fun, great friendships, adventure, growth, and peace in heart and mind. I wish all that for you and look forward to some shared time in reversion, looking back and laughing together about our differences and misunderstandings and acrimonies here in this life.
However, my hope for our future will not deter my position of allowing the Papers to speak for themselves to all who read, study, and implement the truths and facts presented. Best wishes.
Regarding Gene’s question: how do angels and midwayers and planet bound mortals actually “receive” universe broadcasts? And aren’t they in the language of either the local or super universes? Don’t we need devices and the assistance of others to hear any broadcasts, regardless of rebellion? Good question…goes directly to the adjudication results and changes which may derive therefrom.
POPPYCOCK ALERT
It has been asserted that the unfriendly, unloving universe personalities did absolutely nothing to help the wayward Lucifer even though some knew that not all was right in his mind. But we have evidence that both Lucifer and Caligastia were instructed and warned. Both doofuses mistook patient and loving guidance as personal criticism, attacks upon their character. Twisted minds usually do not respond to truth regardless from where or whom it comes.
66:8.2 It should be noted that both Lucifer and Caligastia had been patiently instructed and lovingly warned respecting their critical tendencies and the subtle development of their pride of self and its associated exaggeration of the feeling of self-importance. But all of these attempts to help had been misconstrued as unwarranted criticism and as unjustified interference with personal liberties. Both Caligastia and Lucifer judged their friendly advisers as being actuated by the very reprehensible motives which were beginning to dominate their own distorted thinking and misguided planning. They judged their unselfish advisers by their own evolving selfishness.
Thanks Bonita and Mara….some of these insinuations are buried deep and difficult to see/hear without patient reading and examination! But the list of inserted falsehoods and presumptions which deliver fantastical conclusions just keeps growing. Appreciate the scholarship demonstrated here for us all who attempt to comprehend the motives, intentions, and meanings of doubting suspicions.
Something Bonita posted about sympathy for the devil reminded me that I should probably go ahead and clearly state that I don’t hate Lucifer, Satan, or Caligastia (as accused on another forum about the same topic and claims as here). I hope for their self rehabilitation and eternal ascension. I pity their status. But I do not sympathize or empathize. We are taught to be very careful with our sympathies for those who suffer only by their own hand and own choices….”false sympathy” delivers self importance and self indulgence and is far more fear based than love focused.
Jesus gave several examples to consider as we grapple with being wise as well as innocent….pearls before swine, false sympathy, ministering to those who do not seek light, and more! Giving sympathy to the Devil may be well intended but it is also misguided.
This is a poppycock alert, a service I render for those invisible persons who may read, now or in the future, but do not post, especially new readers. Paradise can be a state of mind for third eye yoga enthusiasts, but for the rest of us, it is an actual place with a real life location and a real life purpose.
0:4:12 The Isle of Paradise — Paradise not otherwise qualified — is the Absolute of the material-gravity control of the First Source and Center. Paradise is motionless, being the only stationary thing in the universe of universes. The Isle of Paradise has a universe location but no position in space. This eternal Isle is the actual source of the physical universes — past, present, and future. The nuclear Isle of Light is a Deity derivative, but it is hardly Deity; neither are the material creations a part of Deity; they are a consequence.
Midi’s quote from page 4 on this thread: “Nevertheless, as I understand it Lucifer acknowledged Michael, but was adamant about the ascension scheme inferring that the Father or God was only located in paradise, where we know that He is everywhere. So, why present that the only path is to paradise, in that it is not a location but a state of mind?”
Me here: Yes, Paradise has a real location, it is not a state of mind or place “in” mind to be sure. Also, God resides at the center of all things, his “everywhereness” is not exactly correct….indeed the number of blatant errors within Midi’s declarations should make him reconsider his personal sense of understanding the easily read and clearly written text on such important issues:
1. The Divine Residence
11:1.1 (118.3) Paradise serves many purposes in the administration of the universal realms, but to creature beings it exists primarily as the dwelling place of Deity. The personal presence of the Universal Father is resident at the very center of the upper surface of this well-nigh circular, but not spherical, abode of the Deities. This Paradise presence of the Universal Father is immediately surrounded by the personal presence of the Eternal Son, while they are both invested by the unspeakable glory of the Infinite Spirit.
11:1.2 (118.4) God dwells, has dwelt, and everlastingly will dwell in this same central and eternal abode. We have always found him there and always will. The Universal Father is cosmically focalized, spiritually personalized, and geographically resident at this center of the universe of universes.
11:1.3 (118.5) We all know the direct course to pursue to find the Universal Father. You are not able to comprehend much about the divine residence because of its remoteness from you and the immensity of the intervening space, but those who are able to comprehend the meaning of these enormous distances know God’s location and residence just as certainly and literally as you know the location of New York, London, Rome, or Singapore, cities definitely and geographically located on Urantia. If you were an intelligent navigator, equipped with ship, maps, and compass, you could readily find these cities. Likewise, if you had the time and means of passage, were spiritually qualified, and had the necessary guidance, you could be piloted through universe upon universe and from circuit to circuit, ever journeying inward through the starry realms, until at last you would stand before the central shining of the spiritual glory of the Universal Father. Provided with all the necessities for the journey, it is just as possible to find the personal presence of God at the center of all things as to find distant cities on your own planet. That you have not visited these places in no way disproves their reality or actual existence. That so few of the universe creatures have found God on Paradise in no way disproves either the reality of his existence or the actuality of his spiritual person at the center of all things.
11:1.4 (119.1) The Father is always to be found at this central location. Did he move, universal pandemonium would be precipitated, for there converge in him at this residential center the universal lines of gravity from the ends of creation. Whether we trace the personality circuit back through the universes or follow the ascending personalities as they journey inward to the Father; whether we trace the lines of material gravity to nether Paradise or follow the insurging cycles of cosmic force; whether we trace the lines of spiritual gravity to the Eternal Son or follow the inward processional of the Paradise Sons of God; whether we trace out the mind circuits or follow the trillions upon trillions of celestial beings who spring from the Infinite Spirit — by any of these observations or by all of them we are led directly back to the Father’s presence, to his central abode. Here is God personally, literally, and actually present. And from his infinite being there flow the flood-streams of life, energy, and personality to all universes.
Me here: As I read the text posted above by Mara and Bonita about Lucifer’s folly, he too claimed that Paradise did not exist but was a fantasy or place in mind only. A fragment of God is within….Paradise remains much further along our adventure and journey! Imagine the finaliters who had actually been there and witnessed its grandeur and beauty being accused of fraud and conspiracy!! Good grief. Another similarity between the Manifesto and those who sympathize with its claims and its authors and perpetrators. Rebellious denial of reality has dire consequences indeed….self annihilation if clung to too tightly too long!
Welcome to you VanAmadon, and thanks to all for chiming your chimes on this topic. Earlier, Gene brought up something tangential to the adjudication of the rebellion: The restoration of the circuits on Urantia. So let’s briefly look at that for a moment.
67:6:9 It should be recorded that, when Van appealed to the Most Highs of Edentia after Lucifer had sustained Caligastia on Urantia, the Constellation Fathers dispatched an immediate decision sustaining Van on every point of his contention. This verdict failed to reach him because the planetary circuits of communication were severed while it was in transit. Only recently was this actual ruling discovered lodged in the possession of a relay energy transmitter where it had been marooned ever since the isolation of Urantia. Without this discovery, made as the result of the investigations of the Urantia midwayers, the release of this decision would have awaited the restoration of Urantia to the constellation circuits. And this apparent accident of interplanetary communication was possible because energy transmitters can receive and transmit intelligence, but they cannot initiate communication.37:8:3 Andovontia is the name of the tertiary Universe Circuit Supervisor [higher-origin spirit beings of the family of the Infinite Spirit] stationed in our local universe. He is concerned only with spirit and morontia circuits, not with those under the jurisdiction of the power directors. It was he who isolated Urantia at the time of the Caligastia betrayal of the planet during the testing seasons of the Lucifer rebellion. In sending greetings to the mortals of Urantia, he expresses pleasure in the anticipation of your sometime restoration to the universe circuits of his supervision.46:8:2 When Satania can return to the constellation fold, then will come up for consideration the readmission of the isolated worlds into the system family of inhabited planets, accompanied by their restoration to the spiritual communion of the realms. But even if Urantia were restored to the system circuits, you would still be embarrassed by the fact that your whole system rests under a Norlatiadek quarantine partially segregating it from all other systems.In time the circuits will be restored: first the restoration of the Satania system to the Norlatiadek constellation, then, subsequently, Urantia and the other isolated worlds in the Satania system will be restored to the Satania circuits.46:8:3 But ere long, the adjudication of Lucifer and his associates will restore the Satania system to the Norlatiadek constellation, and subsequently, Urantia and the other isolated spheres will be restored to the Satania circuits, and again will such worlds enjoy the privileges of interplanetary communication and intersystem communion.53:9:6 We do not look for a removal of the present Satania restrictions until the Ancients of Days make final disposition of the archrebels. The system circuits will not be reinstated so long as Lucifer lives. Meantime, he is wholly inactive.In time the adjudication of the rebellion will be finished.53:8:4 The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, “Get you behind me, Satan.” That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken.I am having no luck finding any specifics on how/when mortals actually listen to or receive “broadcasts” of any form until much deeper into the planetary mortal epochs….and even then, not much. One quote discusses the planetary “temple” but nothing specific except the temple is not specifically a broadcast receiver. So, still hoping to find out more about whether or not the adjudication and resumption of broadcasts has any relevance or personal meaning to mortals on their worlds of birth. Is such news and information even for us? Or is primarily the seraphim, midwayers, and other celestials that are now deprived and will resume that important and functional system? Did find this:
47:10.2 (539.4) John the Revelator saw a vision of the arrival of a class of advancing mortals from the seventh mansion world to their first heaven, the glories of Jerusem. He recorded: “And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and those who had gained the victory over the beast that was originally in them and over the image that persisted through the mansion worlds and finally over the last mark and trace, standing on the sea of glass, having the harps of God, and singing the song of deliverance from mortal fear and death.” (Perfected space communication is to be had on all these worlds; and your anywhere reception of such communications is made possible by carrying the “harp of God,” a morontia contrivance compensating for the inability to directly adjust the immature morontia sensory mechanism to the reception of space communications.)
Me: Sounds like we definitely need a contraption even on the mansion worlds! Which makes me suspect we will NOT know when the isolation ends…or not suddenly or definitively for quite some time. Also makes me wonder about those and them who claim to now be receiving broadcasts….show me your “harp”!! And sing a few bars in local and super universe languages if you please!!
I often wonder if those “harps of God” are something like a mobile phone. No doubt they’re much more.
Bradly wrote: To be clear Midi, I don’t hate…not you or anyone else.Of course, anyone who has welcomed the Spirit of Truth into their soul will not hate, at least not for long. The Spirit of Truth gives us the power to challenge hate and anger with forgiveness. We now have dah powah!
194:3.12 Pentecost endowed mortal man with the power to forgive personal injuries, to keep sweet in the midst of the gravest injustice, to remain unmoved in the face of appalling danger, and to challenge the evils of hate and anger by the fearless acts of love and forbearance. Urantia has passed through the ravages of great and destructive wars in its history. All participants in these terrible struggles met with defeat. There was but one victor; there was only one who came out of these embittered struggles with an enhanced reputation — that was Jesus of Nazareth and his gospel of overcoming evil with good. The secret of a better civilization is bound up in the Master’s teachings of the brotherhood of man, the good will of love and mutual trust.
Of course, the Spirit of Truth is limited in function by the willingness of a soul to accept the sum and substance of the Jesus mission. I would venture a guess that Lucifer Lackeys do not accept the Jesus mission, which puts them at a real disadvantage when it comes to hate and anger, which is abundantly evident.
34:5.5 Though the Spirit of Truth is poured out upon all flesh, this spirit of the Son is almost wholly limited in function and power by man’s personal reception of that which constitutes the sum and substance of the mission of the bestowal Son.
I would very much like to debate you statement above where you said: “I think we can demonstrate by text”, what the purpose is or was? Where my mention of an “intended purpose” would be debatable, in that what has been presented in the UB as being the Lucifer Manifesto, is not an actual quotation from the manifesto, and only a presentation of opinion, as understood by that specific author? If we were to have the actual transcript of this “Manifesto”, it could be examined as actual evidence to the fact instead of only speculation? Where by saying above that “…this is clearly presented….”, is only you opinion, and as a self proclaimed tadpole, I would question the ability of a non-evolved tadpole as understanding “clearly”?
Bradly wrote: And yet, my position has never wavered – it is simply the book says what it says and does not say what it does not – believe what it says or not, I have no opinion on that nor any requirement or request that anyone else believe it – just don’t distort, misstate, misrepresent, misquote, torture, twist, and torment the text….please.
Midi responds: I understand Bradly that your “position has never wavered” – where you are correct that the UB is only a book, but is does not speak. As a reader of any book, it is how the reader interprets what is in that book that determined the material within, and if any reader has determined by its context that “the book says what it says and does not say what it does not”, is based on the readers ability to comprehend only a simple presentation which they can possibly understand. Where if it so simple, then why is it that when attempting to make a case for some argument, only cut and pasted text is used, and sometimes out of context at that, or incomplete reference. There are many who have presented passages from the UB which they find either confusing or sometimes misleading, which is natural based on the complexity of the text and how it is narrated. Where it has been my experience to read some of your posts which presents verbiage which is unrelated to the quoted text which you present, and seem to use as validation of your understanding thereof? If the book is so simple, then why can you not present your opinion with simple descriptive understanding? Is it because you are a tadpole? I don’t know, but to bully other people for not coming down to your level of understanding is not what the UB was presented to do, IMO.
Me here: Okay….why don’t we discuss instead of debate? Lots of points here and I don’t want you to think me shy, uncertain, or too confused to answer your questions. Let’s begin with your assertion that the contents of the Papers are “opinions” subject to inaccuracy (or deceit?). There are many authors regarding the facts of and the results of Lucifer’s Manifesto and subsequent rebellion. You seem to declare that there is significant mystery about what happened….which is certainly not true for anyone who actually reads the Papers.
Try Paper 45: 45:7.9 (518.5) [Presented by a Melchizedek of temporary assignment on Urantia.]
Or Paper 50: 50:7.4 (579.3) [Presented by a Secondary Lanonandek Son of the Reserve Corps.]
And Paper 53: 53:9.9 (612.1) [Presented by Manovandet Melchizedek, onetime attached to the receivership of Urantia.]
Then Paper 54: 54:6.11 (620.3) [Presented by a Mighty Messenger of experiential survival in the first system rebellion in the universes of time now attached to the superuniverse government of Orvonton and acting in this matter by request of Gabriel of Salvington.]
And Papers 66 & 67: 66:8.8 (753.4) [Presented by a Melchizedek of Nebadon.]
This list of 5 distinct authors does not exhaust the list of authors AND authorities who clearly describe as witnesses to the events of authorities with access to reflectivity and written records of the historical events under discussion (there is much written about such records too). We are told by the authors that the UB’s presentation of history will stand the tests of time…an oath of truthfulness and accuracy BOTH. But hey….you believe whatever you will. The question then becomes why do you rely on this book on the one hand (when it suits you) and deny its words on the other (when your misconceptions suit you better)? The book says what it says…….!!
I’ll let the insult and quip about a…. “non-evolved tadpole” go and simply consider the source. = )
Finally….I understand I can be confusing. And I agree the Papers are filled with complex and completely new concepts which are woven together like a million threads of fact into a tapestry of the cosmos which easily overwhelms the new student and first time reader. Thus, we gather together in study groups to socialize and learn from that which is written….and the community has done so for over 60 years to help prevent such false claims and lack of understanding as you present here. But truly anyone with a 6th grade education can actually read the UB and offer great insights of understanding (I know because I’ve been with 12 year olds in study groups and conferences who are not intimated by the text!). And we now come to another insidious insertion…the drip, drip, drip of doubt…..”or sometimes misleading” !!!!!! Really??!! You find the text “misleading”? Quite a declaration there.
When you get “down to (my) level of understanding”….I’ll let you know and buy you a pint! Hahaha.
It is unfortunate that some who read this book of facts and truth, that the spectre of spiritual pride so often enters those who think the text is for the elite few who can unlock the secret codes and patterns (which do NOT exist) and do so exclusively. (That part of the book to read for that issue deals with priests and priest hoods!!) While it is true that the more one reads and studies, the more there is to discover, this has more to do with our own experience, maturity, and discernment changing over time…the words remain the same for every reader every time….but still there is always something to discover that has not yet be discovered if one keeps reading!
Now as to my “tadpoleness”. I’ve long found that metaphor/analogy very interesting. My proposition regarding that quote is simple: those who are not yet fused (still on planet or the mansion worlds) are not yet frogs. Tadpoles move through many stages of transformation, much like we move through the 7 circles of spiritization, and then they become a whole new and different being altogether – a true metamorphosis. Profoundly illustrative to me. The author might have used any example…like a lamb becoming a sheep, etc. But did not. Instead chose a most unique natural example which experiences sequential changes of progress to become something/someone wholly new – from all tail and gills to all legs and lungs which escapes the environment of birth to exist in another dimension of reality while still being quite functional in the environment of birth!!
So when I say I am a tadpole, I am not humble…only realistic. When I say others are my fellow tadpoles, I do not insult them or even categorize them…each tadpole is at a very personal point of transformation while not yet frog! I can assure you I do progress….by loyally being a confident, even exuberant tadpole!! I am most happy with life in this little pond called Urantia and quite confident in my destiny in this friendly and orderly universe ruled by love!!
Bradly, I’m glade that you actually took the time to express your “analogy” of being or using the word “tadpole”, where now, it makes sense to me as to how you perceive that section of the UB where it is presented. To me this is the first time which you have actually responded in such a way as where one could associate to debate your position. Thanks. This does help me understand your position regarding this term better.
Although a little off topic, but still somewhat relative, here are the paragraphs which present the tadpole analogy from the UB.
(1094.4) 100:1.2 Some persons are too busy to grow and are therefore in grave danger of spiritual fixation. Provision must be made for growth of meanings at differing ages, in successive cultures, and in the passing stages of advancing civilization. The chief inhibitors of growth are prejudice and ignorance.
(1094.5) 100:1.3 Give every developing child a chance to grow his own religious experience; do not force a ready-made adult experience upon him. Remember, year-by-year progress through an established educational regime does not necessarily mean intellectual progress, much less spiritual growth. Enlargement of vocabulary does not signify development of character. Growth is not truly indicated by mere products but rather by progress. Real educational growth is indicated by enhancement of ideals, increased appreciation of values, new meanings of values, and augmented loyalty to supreme values.
(1094.6) 100:1.4 Children are permanently impressed only by the loyalties of their adult associates; precept or even example is not lastingly influential. Loyal persons are growing persons, and growth is an impressive and inspiring reality. Live loyally today — grow — and tomorrow will attend to itself. The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole.
(1094.7) 100:1.5 The soil essential for religious growth presupposes a progressive life of self-realization, the coordination of natural propensities, the exercise of curiosity and the enjoyment of reasonable adventure, the experiencing of feelings of satisfaction, the functioning of the fear stimulus of attention and awareness, the wonder-lure, and a normal consciousness of smallness, humility. Growth is also predicated on the discovery of selfhood accompanied by self-criticism — conscience, for conscience is really the criticism of oneself by one’s own value-habits, personal ideals.
Based on the narrative presented above, I had found your analogy of the tadpole, especially when you present it with the “orderly universe” statement may present a misconception to some readers? Where, there may be order to the universe, but since we reside on Urantia, and as we see in the NEWS daily, that there are problems here, which needs corrective action. Therefore, I know that you do not intent to present, from your presentations, that we need do nothing but sit around and wait for the authority or order to perform their function, where this is how I read into what you tend to present? As has been presented in the UB narrations above, we must allow for growth and cannot necessarily wait for others to help resolve our issues, here on Urantia. So, in some ways we must assert ourselves when we see an injustice being inflicted upon those who cannot help or defend themselves, regardless of cause.
Okay….why don’t we discuss instead of debate? Lots of points here and I don’t want you to think me shy, uncertain, or too confused to answer your questions. Let’s begin with your assertion that the contents of the Papers are “opinions” subject to inaccuracy (or deceit?). There are many authors regarding the facts of and the results of Lucifer’s Manifesto and subsequent rebellion. You seem to declare that there is significant mystery about what happened….which is certainly not true for anyone who actually reads the Papers.
Okay Bradly, let us discuss what Mara had presented from Paper 53, specifically from section 2 and 3, pretty much quoted from there. But as you state above and which I have mentioned as being “opinion”, in that even opinion can be presented as correct but also, when you state that there is “inaccuracy (or deceit?)” is not my position. By your statement you are creating an impression that you actually understand what I am thinking or saying, which it seems to be your impression, that I am deceitful, in that I can agree that my opinion may be “inaccuracy” as you perceive it and may very well be so? But you are not giving me an opportunity to be more specific based on specifically questioning why I may have presented that or those opinions.
Where now you suggest to jump away from what Mara has presented and will not discuss those sections, which I do not dispute the text but do have a personal opinion as to why the text was presented in the first place, and in the manor in which it has been presented, might have additional meaning not noticed by the average reader. Time and interest permitting, I would like to address those sections which Mara had presented, although it appears it was presented as an answer to some of my questions or statements and not open for discussion?
Whether the Urantia Book text is discussed or debated has little purpose, if one does not allow for open discussion without chastising a contributor by presenting UB quotes and saying here is the proof, it in the book? So, if its in the book, then lets discuss the book?
What many seem to forget that in a debate or discussion a presenter may indicate a negative understanding of specific context, in order to generate various opinions which may be understood by others as being questionable based on their understanding of that text? When someone indicates that something is questionable, it does not always mean that they question what is being presented as false but they actual have a question about their understand of that text. Where even if their understanding of being questionable may have nothing to do with what they actually believe? It may only be that they wish to understand someone else’s perception of how they understand or interpret that specific text by another, even if it is only an opinion.
If the Urantia Book is poorly presented so that it cannot stand up to a controversial or alternative understanding, then it is doomed to begin with. It is not a simple text presentation to follow, and many will retrieve many different truths and understandings from its pages, but to squash any kind of study, regardless of the subject matter, is presenting deception and taking away our free will by censorship.
Although the text says what it says, how we read it, will determine what’s gained from it. And that will vary from person to person.
I’m sure you’ll agree there’s more value in discovering what others think, rather than sharing your thoughts.
Isn’t that why we’re participating here?
VanAmadon,
Welcome on this forum.
I’m sure you’ll agree there’s more value in discovering what others think, rather than sharing your thoughts.
Isn’t that why we’re participating here? #21888
The reason I’ am participating here are current of 2 purposes.
- decision 117:3.6
- The Supreme struggles for expression. 117:4.2
On this forum as in our life. We committed ourselves to do “the will of God”. To do so, we became a way for the Supreme express Himself.
The + value will be to discern who express himself through self and who express The Supreme through himself.
Jesus was/is a good reference expressing The Supreme through his thinking.
Jointly of your and my thoughts.
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