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Another way to look at the difference between physical life and morontial.
“During the mortal life in the flesh [physical life] the soul is of embryonic estate; it is born (resurrected) in the morontia life [morontia life] and experiences growth through the successive morontia worlds [the mansion worlds of Satania].” PAPER 66
Without vital motion the transient partnership of the material and physical form becomes divorced from the spiritual. Until death do they part for a season. Until then, “The Adjuster finds it almost impossible to register these inspiring spirit leadings in an animal mind so completely dominated by the chemical and electrical forces inherent in your physical natures.”
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101:3. It is this same spirit personality, in primitive and embryonic form, the Adjuster possession of which survives the natural death in the flesh. This composite entity of spirit origin in association with human experience is enabled, by means of the living way provided by the divine Sons, to survive (in Adjuster custody) the dissolution of the material self of mind and matter when such a transient partnership of the material and the spiritual is divorced by the cessation of vital motion..110:7.6 [Part III]But with the vast majority of Urantians the Adjuster must patiently await the arrival of death deliverance; must await the liberation of the emerging soul from the well-nigh complete domination of the energy patterns and chemical forces inherent in your material order of existence. The chief difficulty you experience in contacting with your Adjusters consists in this very inherent material nature. So few mortals are real thinkers; you do not spiritually develop and discipline your minds to the point of favorable liaison with the divine Adjusters. The ear of the human mind is almost deaf to the spiritual pleas which the Adjuster translates from the manifold messages of the universal broadcasts of love proceeding from the Father of mercies. The Adjuster finds it almost impossible to register these inspiring spirit leadings in an animal mind so completely dominated by the chemical and electrical forces inherent in your physical natures.Does it seem like I’m shouting? Sorry.
If one’s comprehension of reality does not result in movement toward finding God and becoming conscious of him, then the reality one is pursuing is false.
196:3.3 The progressive comprehension of reality is the equivalent of approaching God. The finding of God, the consciousness of identity with reality, is the equivalent of the experiencing of self-completion – self-entirety, self-totality. The experiencing of total reality is the full realization of God, the finality of the God-knowing experience.
I posted my thoughts, Bradly. If you disagree with them then that is entirely up to you. There is no disclaimer on this website that states one must tow the party line of Bradly and crew to be a participant. The days of arguing UB opinions are over for me. Reject what I proposed and move on. Peace.Well….too bad…I’m feeling a little baited and switched!! What happened to creative/critical reading? A link was provided and a very reasonable definition of the process is given there. But what you’re suggesting BB is that you don’t use this process at all in your imaginings and ‘belief’ making….an objective understanding of that which is written substantiated by one’s ability to restate that which is written and read; followed by or accompanied by a critical analysis to seek out the angle, motive, agenda, and meanings coming from the author(s) which result in implications and inference, etc.; and then, finally, to express the reader’s resulting conclusions and beliefs formed by the process…becoming the author of one’s own understanding. Why do you claim belief in this process…and so readily abandon and forsake it? Perhaps the objective appreciation and critical understanding of the UB is not really your point or purpose here? You told Keryn you posted all of this to ‘share’ your thoughts with others. What “thoughts” do you mean? Do you mean those thoughts which completely contradict the source of the concepts and teachings you then choose to ignore and contradict? Very unreasoned and illogical and contrary to those lessons which we all need to learn from the site you posted…which keeps reasoning and objectivity at the center of the process (a very real process – it is how to apply the processor of brain, mind, and thought to reading, learning, understanding, and applying the written word in meaningful ways which deliver true value to the student). So…you are not here to learn about the Papers but to share beliefs which contradict them? That’s agenda. Now motive, hmmmm – is it to cause confusion or doubts in others about the teachings we share here? For those beliefs which contradict the UB, provided under false pretenses and claim as based upon creative/critical reading skills (not true), have no reasoned way to be appreciated by others. You describe it as your beliefs based on your speculation and not based on the UB….and yet you rip concepts and terminology directly from the UB and bastardize those to state your beliefs “…. not derived directly from what is written in the papers.” Indeed not!! Well, it’s been interesting. When you do wish to discuss the actual contents and teachings of the UB, I’m ready and willing, even eager. Until then….adios amigo! I’ll be the one departing….please do carry on with your ‘beliefs’ unrelated to and in contradiction to those contents and teachings shared here together.
BB
There is no disclaimer on this website that states one must tow the party line. . . .
. . . nor should there be such a disclaimer; nor is there a *party line* BB. I think I am correct in assuming you currently know, and, previously had knowledge of the purpose of this forum – study of the UB. I was looking forward to your further explanations of the phrases you invented, as they relate your understandings of the book. I hoped you’d provide references to support your views. You give up so quickly without debate or argument. . . .
TUB tells us the first experience of a sleeping survivor on the mansion world is the fact of survival. But that feeling of survival, is it natural to the morontia body? I believe so. I ask because revelators resort to word symbols of the English language, e.g., sleep, to explain higher or supernatural phenomenon. We experience “wake” when our sleep ends. And this wake is natural to the body and does not add any real value to the person’s perception of reality. I would think that that would be the case for sleeping survivors. They experience the feeling of survival but this survival adds no real value to the morontia body/reality as it is a part of its natural workings. So it begs the question, does a sleeping survivor really know they are in the morontia world and that they just departed the natural realm called earth ? Revelators tell us this fact has to be rehearsed to them by records (and even the TAs do not convey this truth concretely). Next question…. Do they necessarily have to “believe” those records of past life presented to them? Sort of like the religious experience happening all over again, but this time within a morontia context. I think just because you are in the mansion world does not necessarily mean you are aware of it or will accept or believe it though you are told!Before anyone can actually critically or creatively assess what, where, when or how we might be experiencing “reality”, regardless of what kind of “reality” is defined, one would need to ask oneself, how would one know, what reality is? How do you know what you consider your current life, “is”, based on a definition of reality, or real? If Jesus, after His Resurrection appeared to many in a physical form, where they were able to touch Him, and interact with Him, then later He left, how can one explain what that reality is or was? At that time, Jesus was considerably both dead and alive, real and unreal. So, how would anyone know if they were on a mansion world or elsewhere?
BB
What party line? A little honesty and sincerity is always appropriate BB, not to mention some reasoned, logical, and critical thinking (as opposed to flights of imaginative fancy).
As Mara invited….please do continue to claim whatever you wish as all such postings offer something for the student body’s consideration.
The UB says what it says and does so clearly and redundantly. Agree or disagree as you wish. Best wishes!
The physical and the morontial are different forms.
I agree, however, Jesus interacted with them, where in the following, if He were purely a spiritual, morontial manifestation, would He be able to pickup fish, and break bread, handing the bread to John, where in this association, although passive, were interactive. Also, who was the “lad” who Jesus served? Could he have also been a morontial form?
(2047.1) 192:1.8 Jesus spoke to them, saying: “Come now, all of you, to breakfast. Even the twins should sit down while I visit with you; John Mark will dress the fish.” John Mark brought seven good-sized fish, which the Master put on the fire, and when they were cooked, the lad served them to the ten. Then Jesus broke the bread and handed it to John, who in turn served it to the hungry apostles. When they had all been served, Jesus bade John Mark sit down while he himself served the fish and the bread to the lad. And as they ate, Jesus visited with them and recounted their many experiences in Galilee and by this very lake.
You are correct. I already know this. But that reply was made to hit back at Bradly’s snide remarks *shrugs*. If I am wrong about the UB then I am wrong. It is my right as a flawed being striving for perfection. I just don’t get why people react so NEGATIVELY in a passive or aggressive manner because they disagree with an opinion (don’t we all have one!? lmao). I now give up when I see hostility encroaching. Rather than get into a heated debate, I bow out. This is my new approach on the website since my return.There is no disclaimer on this website that states one must tow the party line. . . .
. . . nor should there be such a disclaimer; nor is there a *party line* BB. I think I am correct in assuming you currently know, and, previously had knowledge of the purpose of this forum – study of the UB. I was looking forward to your further explanations of the phrases you invented, as they related your understandings of the book. I hoped you’d provide references to support your views. You give up so quickly without debate or argument. . . .
BB
Peace Bradly.What party line? A little honesty and sincerity is always appropriate BB, not to mention some reasoned, logical, and critical thinking (as opposed to flights of imaginative fancy). As Mara invited….please do continue to claim whatever you wish as all such postings offer something for the student body’s consideration. The UB says what it says and does so clearly and redundantly. Agree or disagree as you wish. Best wishes!
BB
Well, if there were no UB, would you think yourself in heaven Midi? And the Urantia Papers explain reality clearly and redundantly to those who can read without subjective and prejudicial distortions Midi.
Definitely not heaven Bradly, because we wouldn’t be having this conversation, but elsewhere, although you may not have realized it just yet? So, if the “Urantia Papers explain reality clearly and redundantly”, why have you not explained reality in such a way as to not being relative to the UB, and more to your own existence and experiences?
TUB tells us the first experience of a sleeping survivor on the mansion world is the fact of survival. But that feeling of survival, is it natural to the morontia body? I believe so. I ask because revelators resort to word symbols of the English language, e.g., sleep, to explain higher or supernatural phenomenon. We experience “wake” when our sleep ends. And this wake is natural to the body and does not add any real value to the person’s perception of reality. I would think that that would be the case for sleeping survivors. They experience the feeling of survival but this survival adds no real value to the morontia body/reality as it is a part of its natural workings. So it begs the question, does a sleeping survivor really know they are in the morontia world and that they just departed the natural realm called earth ? Revelators tell us this fact has to be rehearsed to them by records (and even the TAs do not convey this truth concretely). Next question…. Do they necessarily have to “believe” those records of past life presented to them? Sort of like the religious experience happening all over again, but this time within a morontia context. I think just because you are in the mansion world does not necessarily mean you are aware of it!My interpretation of the TUB, which differs from yours in many respects, is that the “sleeping survivors” are in a waiting state, somewhere (the TUB doesn’t say where) but are not yet on the mansion world. They are not yet morontia bodies because they have not yet been resurrected. Their resurrection occurs at the end of a dispensation.This Truthbook article explains it this way:How long does it take to go from Earth to the Mansion Worlds and how do we get there?
After we die, we rest in an unconscious sleep. Whether we sleep for three days or three hundred years, we will have no memory of the passage of time. But travel time to the mansion worlds is fast. We can be resurrected as soon as three days after our death.
The length of our sleep will depend upon the progress we made while living on earth. Generally, the more we lead balanced lives on earth, the sooner our resurrection will occur after death. Balanced character growth requires the unified development of our social, spiritual, intellectual and philosophical natures. An over-developed religious mind, for example, can become fanatical. Likewise, a scientist living without God can become a gloomy materialist. It is more important to be well-rounded and whole than to become unbalanced in any one direction.
During the sleep of survival, our soul, spirit, and personality are safeguarded until we are resurected. The cooperative efforts of our faithful guardian angel and Thought Adjuster deliver our soul, identity, and certain factors of mind to the life assembly chambers on the mansion worlds. There, we are reassembled and given a new body form. [emphasis, mine]
The text of the TUB itself says:
Sleeping Survivors. All mortals of survival status, in the custody of personal guardians of destiny, pass through the portals of natural death and, on the third period, personalize on the mansion worlds. Those accredited beings who have, for any reason, been unable to attain that level of intelligence mastery and endowment of spirituality which would entitle them to personal guardians, cannot thus immediately and directly go to the mansion worlds. Such surviving souls must rest in unconscious sleep until the judgment day of a new epoch, a new dispensation, the coming of a Son of God to call the rolls of the age and adjudicate the realm, and this is the general practice throughout all Nebadon. It was said of Christ Michael that, when he ascended on high at the conclusion of his work on earth, “He led a great multitude of captives.” And these captives were the sleeping survivors from the days of Adam to the day of the Master’s resurrection on Urantia. (30:4.11)
I am not sure why you cite the limbo state of the personality during the sleep of death/unconscious sleep. Could you elaborate on why you reference it? Thanks!TUB tells us the first experience of a sleeping survivor on the mansion world is the fact of survival. But that feeling of survival, is it natural to the morontia body? I believe so. I ask because revelators resort to word symbols of the English language, e.g., sleep, to explain higher or supernatural phenomenon. We experience “wake” when our sleep ends. And this wake is natural to the body and does not add any real value to the person’s perception of reality. I would think that that would be the case for sleeping survivors. They experience the feeling of survival but this survival adds no real value to the morontia body/reality as it is a part of its natural workings. So it begs the question, does a sleeping survivor really know they are in the morontia world and that they just departed the natural realm called earth ? Revelators tell us this fact has to be rehearsed to them by records (and even the TAs do not convey this truth concretely). Next question…. Do they necessarily have to “believe” those records of past life presented to them? Sort of like the religious experience happening all over again, but this time within a morontia context. I think just because you are in the mansion world does not necessarily mean you are aware of it!My interpretation of the TUB, which differs from yours in many respects, is that the “sleeping survivors” are in a waiting state, somewhere (the TUB doesn’t say where) but are not yet on the mansion world. They are not yet morontia bodies because they have not yet been resurrected. Their resurrection occurs at the end of a dispensation.This Truthbook article explains it this way:How long does it take to go from Earth to the Mansion Worlds and how do we get there?
After we die, we rest in an unconscious sleep. Whether we sleep for three days or three hundred years, we will have no memory of the passage of time. But travel time to the mansion worlds is fast. We can be resurrected as soon as three days after our death. The length of our sleep will depend upon the progress we made while living on earth. Generally, the more we lead balanced lives on earth, the sooner our resurrection will occur after death. Balanced character growth requires the unified development of our social, spiritual, intellectual and philosophical natures. An over-developed religious mind, for example, can become fanatical. Likewise, a scientist living without God can become a gloomy materialist. It is more important to be well-rounded and whole than to become unbalanced in any one direction. During the sleep of survival, our soul, spirit, and personality are safeguarded until we are resurected. The cooperative efforts of our faithful guardian angel and Thought Adjuster deliver our soul, identity, and certain factors of mind to the life assembly chambers on the mansion worlds. There, we are reassembled and given a new body form. [emphasis, mine]
The text of the TUB itself says:
Sleeping Survivors. All mortals of survival status, in the custody of personal guardians of destiny, pass through the portals of natural death and, on the third period, personalize on the mansion worlds. Those accredited beings who have, for any reason, been unable to attain that level of intelligence mastery and endowment of spirituality which would entitle them to personal guardians, cannot thus immediately and directly go to the mansion worlds.Such surviving souls must rest in unconscious sleep until the judgment day of a new epoch, a new dispensation, the coming of a Son of God to call the rolls of the age and adjudicate the realm, and this is the general practice throughout all Nebadon. It was said of Christ Michael that, when he ascended on high at the conclusion of his work on earth, “He led a great multitude of captives.” And these captives were the sleeping survivors from the days of Adam to the day of the Master’s resurrection on Urantia. (30:4.11)
BB
The text of the TUB itself says:
Sleeping Survivors. All mortals of survival status, in the custody of personal guardians of destiny, pass through the portals of natural death and, on the third period, personalize on the mansion worlds. Those accredited beings who have, for any reason, been unable to attain that level of intelligence mastery and endowment of spirituality which would entitle them to personal guardians, cannot thus immediately and directly go to the mansion worlds. Such surviving souls must rest in unconscious sleep until the judgment day of a new epoch, a new dispensation, the coming of a Son of God to call the rolls of the age and adjudicate the realm, and this is the general practice throughout all Nebadon. It was said of Christ Michael that, when he ascended on high at the conclusion of his work on earth, “He led a great multitude of captives.” And these captives were the sleeping survivors from the days of Adam to the day of the Master’s resurrection on Urantia. (30:4.11)
What I find interesting is that authors of the UB narration above should present those of “survival status” as “captives“?
When I first read the UB, I recall that Urantia was a prison planet, yet over time has changed, and I know that I was not alone because others on previous and other forums had recalled having read the same thing. Yet now the prison worlds surround the Fathers world, which makes me think or question if the Father is also a prisoner? I know differently but still, the implication could be made for that assumption by some readers?
I am not sure why you cite the limbo state of the personality during the sleep of death/unconscious sleep. Could you elaborate on why you reference it? Thanks!Um, have you read paper 30? Take a look at 30:4.11-15 I’m not going to spoon feed it to you.
The text of the TUB itself says: Sleeping Survivors. All mortals of survival status, in the custody of personal guardians of destiny, pass through the portals of natural death and, on the third period, personalize on the mansion worlds. Those accredited beings who have, for any reason, been unable to attain that level of intelligence mastery and endowment of spirituality which would entitle them to personal guardians, cannot thus immediately and directly go to the mansion worlds. Such surviving souls must rest in unconscious sleep until the judgment day of a new epoch, a new dispensation, the coming of a Son of God to call the rolls of the age and adjudicate the realm, and this is the general practice throughout all Nebadon. It was said of Christ Michael that, when he ascended on high at the conclusion of his work on earth, “He led a great multitude of captives.” And these captives were the sleeping survivors from the days of Adam to the day of the Master’s resurrection on Urantia. (30:4.11)
What I find interesting is that authors of the UB narration above should present those of “survival status” as “captives“? When I first read the UB, I recall that Urantia was a prison planet, yet over time has changed, and I know that I was not alone because others on previous and other forums had recalled having read the same thing. Yet now the prison worlds surround the Fathers world, which makes me think or question if the Father is also a prisoner? I know differently but still, the implication could be made for that assumption by some readers?
The Urantia Book isn’t saying they are captives, it is referencing another work that made the statement “He led a great multitude of captives,”. This probably refers to a distorted interpretation of a vision or dream someone had and then made that statement. In a sense, they are captive in the sense of the word of ‘being kept in confinement or restraint’ going by the dictionary definition. “Prisoner” is the main meaning but the dictionary also gives confinement as a 4th meaning. When one is in an unconscious state waiting until the next dispensation, that could be considered ‘in confinement’.
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