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Basically I presented my beliefs on the subject. They are speculation, admittedly, and are not derived directly from what is written in the papers. To me, one can be mentally, physically and spiritually asleep. And it is this understanding that allows me infer that the mansion world exists in the mental, physical and spiritual planes of reality. One can experience the mansion worlds in the here-and-now. We do not have to wait for death to go through this experience.Okay, so it is your interpretation, your “beliefs” that “we do not have to wait for death” to experience the mansion world. That “the mansion world exists in the mental, physical and spiritual planes of reality and one can experience it in the “here-and-now”.If one were to adopt your beliefs as their own, how would one reconcile this statement from TUB, if such a person was a 60-year old woman who has never had children?47:1.4 (531.2) On the first mansion world all survivors must pass the requirements of the parental commission from their native planets. The present Urantia commission consists of twelve parental couples, recently arrived, who have had mortal experience in rearing three or more children to the pubescent age. Service on this commission is rotational and is for only ten years as a rule. All who fail to satisfy these commissioners as to their parental experience must further qualify by service in the homes of the Material Sons on Jerusem or in part in the probationary nursery on the finaliters’ world.Mansion world #1 is a prerequisite to moving on to numbers 2-7, correct? So if I were a 60 year old childless woman, with no opportunities to have children of my own here on Urantia, am I prohibited from experiencing the mansion worlds “in the here-and-now” but others, who have children, are able to do so?Keryn, don’t we have an opportunity to experience that very same event in the here-and-now? It is called adoption. The experience of adopting and raising a child during the here-and-now is no different than rearing a child on the mansion world.Basically I presented my beliefs on the subject. They are speculation, admittedly, and are not derived directly from what is written in the papers. To me, one can be mentally, physically and spiritually asleep. And it is this understanding that allows me infer that the mansion world exists in the mental, physical and spiritual planes of reality. One can experience the mansion worlds in the here-and-now. We do not have to wait for death to go through this experience.Okay, so it is your interpretation, your “beliefs” that “we do not have to wait for death” to experience the mansion world. That “the mansion world exists in the mental, physical and spiritual planes of reality and one can experience it in the “here-and-now”.If one were to adopt your beliefs as their own, how would one reconcile this statement from TUB, if such a person was a 60-year old woman who has never had children?47:1.4(531.2) On the first mansion world all survivors must pass the requirements of the parental commission from their native planets. The present Urantia commission consists of twelve parental couples, recently arrived, who have had mortal experience in rearing three or more children to the pubescent age. Service on this commission is rotational and is for only ten years as a rule. All who fail to satisfy these commissioners as to their parental experience must further qualify by service in the homes of the Material Sons on Jerusem or in part in the probationary nursery on the finaliters’ world.Mansion world #1 is a prerequisite to moving on to numbers 2-7, correct? So if I were a 60 year old childless woman, with no opportunities to have children of my own here on Urantia, am I prohibited from experiencing the mansion worlds “in the here-and-now” but others, who have children, are able to do so?
BB
Keryn, don’t we have an opportunity to experience that very same event in the here-and-now? It is called adoption. The experience of adopting and raising a child during the here-and-now is no different than rearing a child on the mansion world.By this answer, I can see that you do not intend to seriously discuss “critical reading” of the TUB. You have your preconceived notion and will not deviate from it. There are many, many people who cannot have children of their own or can not adopt them either. Certainly, there are very few adoption agencies which would put an infant or young child into the care of a 60 year old person to raise. Plenty of people try very hard to have children (or to adopt them) and are unable to do so.There is precedence that says otherwise:48:6.12 You should consider the statement about “heaven” and the “heaven of heavens.” The heaven conceived by most of your prophets was the first of the mansion worlds of the local system. When the apostle spoke of being “caught up to the third heaven,” he referred to that experience in which his Adjuster was detached during sleep and in this unusual state made a projection to the third of the seven mansion worlds. Some of your wise mensaw the vision of the greater heaven, “the heaven of heavens,” of which the sevenfold mansion world experience was but the first; the second being Jerusem; the third, Edentia and its satellites; the fourth, Salvington and the surrounding educational spheres; the fifth, Uversa; the sixth, Havona; and the seventh, Paradise.The only morontia reality a human being living on earth has unfettered access to is the soul.
BB
I posted this to share my thoughts with others. I am not looking to convince you of anything, Keryn. You do not have to accept what I posted.Keryn, don’t we have an opportunity to experience that very same event in the here-and-now? It is called adoption. The experience of adopting and raising a child during the here-and-now is no different than rearing a child on the mansion world.By this answer, I can see that you do not intend to seriously discuss “critical reading” of the TUB. You have your preconceived notion and will not deviate from it. There are many, many people who cannot have children of their own or can not adopt them either. Certainly, there are very few adoption agencies which would put an infant or young child into the care of a 60 year old person to raise. Plenty of people try very hard to have children (or to adopt them) and are unable to do so.BB
48:6.12 You should consider the statement about “heaven” and the “heaven of heavens.” The heaven conceived by most of your prophets was the first of the mansion worlds of the local system. When the apostle spoke of being “caught up to the third heaven,” he referred to that experience in which his Adjuster was detached during sleep and in this unusual state made a projection to the third of the seven mansion worlds. Some of your wise mensaw the vision of the greater heaven, “the heaven of heavens,” of which the sevenfold mansion world experience was but the first; the second being Jerusem; the third, Edentia and its satellites; the fourth, Salvington and the surrounding educational spheres; the fifth, Uversa; the sixth, Havona; and the seventh, Paradise.
Clearly the Adjuster had the mansion world experience, not the human being. The human being was unconscious – asleep. The soul does not sleep. Awareness of the Adjuster’s experience by the soul is part of soul-consciousness. Either the soul accompanied the Adjuster during this projection, or the Adjuster’s experience of the projection was shared with the soul on some level, all of which are possible in the highest psychic circles. However, the interpretation of the experience by the material mind of the human being is always distorted and unreliable.
Again, the soul is the only morontia reality the human mind has access to . . . and the human material mind has difficulty processing that experience . . . hence the need for faith-trust. The goal is to penetrate the soul and reach its borderland which abuts on the superconscious where the Adjuster lives. This requires psychic circle progression.
I am not asking if you are trying to convince me or anyone else. I am asking how you are able to convince *yourself* of these things, when the text clearly shows that the mansion world exists separate from our material experience on Urantia.
I’m genuinely curious as to how you are able to “believe” that we can experience the mansion worlds in the here-and-now. Using logic and critical thinking. If we “do not have to wait for death to experience the mansion worlds” then why do the spheres #1-7 exist? And where is the Resurrection Hall? Can we saunter by and see the resurrections happening there, while alive here on planet Earth? I mean, think about it! Where is the Morontia Companion? Do they visit us while we are asleep? How would that work since one Companion is assigned to a thousand mortals?
47:3.2 (532.8) The very center of all activities on the first mansion world is the resurrection hall, the enormous temple of personality assembly. This gigantic structure consists of the central rendezvous of the seraphic destiny guardians, the Thought Adjusters, and the archangels of the resurrection. The Life Carriers also function with these celestial beings in the resurrection of the dead.
47:3.12 (534.4) As you start out on the first mansion world, one Morontia Companion is assigned to each company of one thousand ascending mortals, but you will encounter larger numbers as you progress through the seven mansion spheres. These beautiful and versatile beings are companionable associates and charming guides. They are free to accompany individuals or selected groups to any of the transition-culture spheres, including their satellite worlds. They are the excursion guides and leisure associates of all ascending mortals. They often accompany survivor groups on periodic visits to Jerusem, and on any day you are there, you can go to the registry sector of the system capital and meet ascending mortals from all seven of the mansion worlds since they freely journey back and forth between their residential abodes and the system headquarters.
We will agree to disagree then, Bonita.48:6.12 You should consider the statement about “heaven” and the “heaven of heavens.” The heaven conceived by most of your prophets was the first of the mansion worlds of the local system. When the apostle spoke of being “caught up to the third heaven,” he referred to that experience in which his Adjuster was detached during sleep and in this unusual state made a projection to the third of the seven mansion worlds. Some of your wise mensaw the vision of the greater heaven, “the heaven of heavens,” of which the sevenfold mansion world experience was but the first; the second being Jerusem; the third, Edentia and its satellites; the fourth, Salvington and the surrounding educational spheres; the fifth, Uversa; the sixth, Havona; and the seventh, Paradise.
Clearly the Adjuster had the mansion world experience, not the human being. The human being was unconscious – asleep. The soul does not sleep. Awareness of the Adjuster’s experience by the soul is part of soul-consciousness. Either the soul accompanied the Adjuster during this projection, or the Adjuster’s experience of the projection was shared with the soul on some level, all of which are possible in the highest psychic circles. However, the interpretation of the experience by the material mind of the human being is always distorted and unreliable. Again, the soul is the only morontia reality the human mind has access to . . . and the human material mind has difficulty processing that experience . . . hence the need for faith-trust. The goal is to penetrate the soul and reach its borderland which abuts on the superconscious where the Adjuster lives. This requires psychic circle progression.
BB
I believe I explained my reasoning. I don’t know any other way to explain it. If I come up with another angle to explain the concept, I will post it.I am not asking if you are trying to convince me or anyone else. I am asking how you are able to convince *yourself* of these things, when the text clearly shows that the mansion world exists separate from our material experience on Urantia. I’m genuinely curious as to how you are able to “believe” that we can experience the mansion worlds in the here-and-now. Using logic and critical thinking. If we “do not have to wait for death to experience the mansion worlds” then why do the spheres #1-7 exist? And where is the Resurrection Hall? Can we saunter by and see the resurrections happening there, while alive here on planet Earth? I mean, think about it! Where is the Morontia Companion? Do they visit us while we are asleep? How would that work since one Companion is assigned to a thousand mortals? 47:3.2(532.8) The very center of all activities on the first mansion world is the resurrection hall, the enormous temple of personality assembly. This gigantic structure consists of the central rendezvous of the seraphic destiny guardians, the Thought Adjusters, and the archangels of the resurrection. The Life Carriers also function with these celestial beings in the resurrection of the dead. 47:3.12(534.4) As you start out on the first mansion world, one Morontia Companion is assigned to each company of one thousand ascending mortals, but you will encounter larger numbers as you progress through the seven mansion spheres. These beautiful and versatile beings are companionable associates and charming guides. They are free to accompany individuals or selected groups to any of the transition-culture spheres, including their satellite worlds. They are the excursion guides and leisure associates of all ascending mortals. They often accompany survivor groups on periodic visits to Jerusem, and on any day you are there, you can go to the registry sector of the system capital and meet ascending mortals from all seven of the mansion worlds since they freely journey back and forth between their residential abodes and the system headquarters.
BB
p551:7 48:6.2 You should understand that the morontia life of an ascending mortal is really initiated on the inhabited worlds at the conception of the soul, at that moment when the creature mind of moral status is indwelt by the spirit Adjuster. And from that moment on, the mortal soul has potential capacity for supermortal function, even for recognition on the higher levels of the morontia spheres of the local universe.
The soul functions on a supermortal level of reality. As an individual progresses through the psychic circles with resultant soul growth, he/she becomes increasingly aware of the soul and its level of consciousness. This is not a mansion world experience; it’s soul experience. This is where personal religious experience takes place.
5:2.5-6 It is exceedingly difficult for the meagerly spiritualized, material mind of mortal man to experience marked consciousness of the spirit activities of such divine entities as the Paradise Adjusters. As the soul of joint mind and Adjuster creation becomes increasingly existent, there also evolves a new phase of soul consciousness which is capable of experiencing the presence, and of recognizing the spirit leadings and other supermaterial activities, of the Mystery Monitors.
The entire experience of Adjuster communion is one involving moral status, mental motivation, and spiritual experience. The self-realization of such an achievement is mainly, though not exclusively, limited to the realms of soul consciousness, but the proofs are forthcoming and abundant in the manifestation of the fruits of the spirit in the lives of all such inner-spirit contactors.
Before anyone can actually critically or creatively assess what, where, when or how we might be experiencing “reality”, regardless of what kind of “reality” is defined, one would need to ask oneself, how would one know, what reality is? How do you know what you consider your current life, “is”, based on a definition of reality, or real? If Jesus, after His Resurrection appeared to many in a physical form, where they were able to touch Him, and interact with Him, then later He left, how can one explain what that reality is or was? At that time, Jesus was considerably both dead and alive, real and unreal. So, how would anyone know if they were on a mansion world or elsewhere?
Well….too bad…I’m feeling a little baited and switched!! What happened to creative/critical reading? A link was provided and a very reasonable definition of the process is given there. But what you’re suggesting BB is that you don’t use this process at all in your imaginings and ‘belief’ making….an objective understanding of that which is written substantiated by one’s ability to restate that which is written and read; followed by or accompanied by a critical analysis to seek out the angle, motive, agenda, and meanings coming from the author(s) which result in implications and inference, etc.; and then, finally, to express the reader’s resulting conclusions and beliefs formed by the process…becoming the author of one’s own understanding. Why do you claim belief in this process…and so readily abandon and forsake it? Perhaps the objective appreciation and critical understanding of the UB is not really your point or purpose here?
You told Keryn you posted all of this to ‘share’ your thoughts with others. What “thoughts” do you mean? Do you mean those thoughts which completely contradict the source of the concepts and teachings you then choose to ignore and contradict? Very unreasoned and illogical and contrary to those lessons which we all need to learn from the site you posted…which keeps reasoning and objectivity at the center of the process (a very real process – it is how to apply the processor of brain, mind, and thought to reading, learning, understanding, and applying the written word in meaningful ways which deliver true value to the student).
So…you are not here to learn about the Papers but to share beliefs which contradict them? That’s agenda. Now motive, hmmmm – is it to cause confusion or doubts in others about the teachings we share here? For those beliefs which contradict the UB, provided under false pretenses and claim as based upon creative/critical reading skills (not true), have no reasoned way to be appreciated by others. You describe it as your beliefs based on your speculation and not based on the UB….and yet you rip concepts and terminology directly from the UB and bastardize those to state your beliefs “…. not derived directly from what is written in the papers.” Indeed not!!
Well, it’s been interesting. When you do wish to discuss the actual contents and teachings of the UB, I’m ready and willing, even eager. Until then….adios amigo! I’ll be the one departing….please do carry on with your ‘beliefs’ unrelated to and in contradiction to those contents and teachings shared here together.
. . .where they were able to touch Him. . . .
No, Jesus was in his morontia form and he told Mary not to touch him:
189:4.12 As Mary sought to embrace his feet, Jesus said: “Touch me not, Mary, for I am not as you knew me in the flesh. In this form will I tarry with you for a season before I ascend to the Father. But go, all of you, now and tell my apostles — and Peter — that I have risen, and that you have talked with me.”And to Thomas he said:191:5.4 When the Master had so spoken, he looked down into the face of Thomas and said: “And you, Thomas, who said you would not believe unless you could see me and put your finger in the nail marks of my hands, have now beheld me and heard my words; and though you see no nail marks on my hands, since I am raised in the form that you also shall have when you depart from this world, what will you say to your brethren? You will acknowledge the truth, for already in your heart you had begun to believe even when you so stoutly asserted your unbelief. Your doubts, Thomas, always most stubbornly assert themselves just as they are about to crumble. Thomas, I bid you be not faithless but believing — and I know you will believe, even with a whole heart.”The physical and the morontial are different forms.Before anyone can actually critically or creatively assess what, where, when or how we might be experiencing “reality”, regardless of what kind of “reality” is defined, one would need to ask oneself, how would one know, what reality is? How do you know what you consider your current life, “is”, based on a definition of reality, or real? If Jesus, after His Resurrection appeared to many in a physical form, where they were able to touch Him, and interact with Him, then later He left, how can one explain what that reality is or was? At that time, Jesus was considerably both dead and alive, real and unreal. So, how would anyone know if they were on a mansion world or elsewhere?
Well, if there were no UB, would you think yourself in heaven Midi? And the Urantia Papers explain reality clearly and redundantly to those who can read without subjective and prejudicial distortions Midi. And Jesus was never and has never been “unreal” nor disconnected from reality….even as a boy. He portrays how one becomes ever more connected to reality and how the branch attached to the vine of reality grows the fruits of the spirit as evidence of that reality.
But I understand your own uncertainties about reality…you are so generous to share them so frequently. Sometimes, especially when well written, words actually express that which they are intended to express…but only if the reader can release the death grip of their own unreality and prejudice.
Enough….done here.
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