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Posts
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Ahhhhhh….Bonita….overflowing like a fountain….. or a spring of inspirational refreshment!
Looking forward to the new topic…and I appreciate your emphasis here on the friendly universe in which we live and how profound the change from the mortal life on the planet’s of birth and the mansion worlds! And thanks for pointing out that the personal repercussions of immaturity and mortal error do not make that journey so there is no carry-over of our suffering or mistakes….just more work to accomplish for some than for others in some ways but not all ways either….that’s why there’s 7 worlds of ministry, each with its particular ministries of personal progress!
An important point I think. Unlike the schools of our world, the education to come will be highly personalized. Like the mind/spirit ministers are for us here today….there are lessons all must learn and hold in common but the achievement of those is not uniform or as lineal perhaps as we might think. So, it appears obvious that errors do not carry over, no….except as those leave ‘gaps’ of education and spirit progress to be addressed more specifically o the Mansions….as is their purpose.
I am reminded that the Mansions tend to be utilized less and less as a System approaches L&L and less and less error attends the mortal survivors and as more and more find Adjuster fusion on the worlds of material birth. As worlds pass through the mortal epochs, more and more mortals need less and less ‘corrective’ education….but each soul has the ability in each life to make those choices and commitments to God and Spirit and identity transition, that no one soul of any generation is personally limited in our Circle Progress by the generational success or failure or by the mortal epoch of our own time.
If interested, one might wish to read Paper 55 to gain a better understanding of the reality in which we will awaken to on the Mansion Worlds….including the first one! There is a sad tendency to overlay our local material existence onto the worlds and existence to come, limiting our ability to appreciate how very different is the heavenly abode from our material lives. We taint that reality by our very limited time of struggle here…but our ministers and teachers and the orderliness and friendliness of the Mansion Worlds to come has almost nothing at all in common with a dark, confused, and isolated world early in the Mortal Epochs. What a glorious place we will find there!
55:3.1 (624.7) During this age of light and life the world increasingly prospers under the fatherly rule of the Planetary Sovereign. By this time the worlds are progressing under the momentum of one language, one religion, and, on normal spheres, one race. But this age is not perfect. These worlds still have well-appointed hospitals, homes for the care of the sick. There still remain the problems of caring for accidental injuries and the inescapable infirmities attendant upon the decrepitude of old age and the disorders of senility. Disease has not been entirely vanquished, neither have the earth animals been subdued in perfection; but such worlds are like Paradise in comparison with the early times of primitive man during the pre-Planetary Prince age. You would instinctively describe such a realm — could you be suddenly transported to a planet in this stage of development — as heaven on earth.
55:5.1 (629.10) Mortal creatures living on a sin-stricken, evil-dominated, self-seeking, isolated world, such as Urantia, can hardly conceive of the physical perfection, the intellectual attainment, and the spiritual development which characterize these advanced epochs of evolution on a sinless sphere.
55:5.2 (629.11) The advanced stages of a world settled in light and life represent the acme of evolutionary material development. On these cultured worlds, gone are the idleness and friction of the earlier primitive ages. Poverty and social inequality have all but vanished, degeneracy has disappeared, and delinquency is rarely observed. Insanity has practically ceased to exist, and feeble-mindedness is a rarity.
55:5.3 (629.12) The economic, social, and administrative status of these worlds is of a high and perfected order. Science, art, and industry flourish, and society is a smoothly working mechanism of high material, intellectual, and cultural achievement. Industry has been largely diverted to serving the higher aims of such a superb civilization. The economic life of such a world has become ethical.
55:5.4 (630.1) War has become a matter of history, and there are no more armies or police forces. Government is gradually disappearing. Self-control is slowly rendering laws of human enactment obsolete. The extent of civil government and statutory regulation, in an intermediate state of advancing civilization, is in inverse proportion to the morality and spirituality of the citizenship.
55:5.5 (630.2) Schools are vastly improved and are devoted to the training of mind and the expansion of soul. The art centers are exquisite and the musical organizations superb. The temples of worship with their associated schools of philosophy and experiential religion are creations of beauty and grandeur. The open-air arenas of worship assembly are equally sublime in the simplicity of their artistic appointment.
And this describes a mortal, material world….even from such a place, the Mansion Worlds are so much more and so much finer I am sure! Even L&L leaves us some challenges of suffering….who suffers I wonder in heaven?And thanks for pointing out that the personal repercussions of immaturity and mortal error do not make that journey so there is no carry-over of our suffering or mistakes….just more work to accomplish for some than for others in some ways but not all ways either….that’s why there’s 7 worlds of ministry, each with its particular ministries of personal progress!
Did I say that? I don’t think I did.
Bradly wrote: . . . there is no carry-over of our suffering . . .
Does anyone think Jesus “carried over” his suffering? Is it part of his experience as a human being that stays with him into eternity?
And how about our mistakes. If we gain any wisdom from making those mistakes, will those experiences be “carried over” as part of our soul?
And thanks for pointing out that the personal repercussions of immaturity and mortal error do not make that journey so there is no carry-over of our suffering or mistakes….just more work to accomplish for some than for others in some ways but not all ways either….that’s why there’s 7 worlds of ministry, each with its particular ministries of personal progress!
Did I say that? I don’t think I did.
Apologies for the misstatement Bonita….don’t mean to put words in your mouth…my bad. As to my understanding of the conversation and the text posted as related to your questions: “Does anyone think Jesus “carried over” his suffering? Is it part of his experience as a human being that stays with him into eternity? And how about our mistakes. If we gain any wisdom from making those mistakes, will those experiences be “carried over” as part of our soul?”
It is my understanding that only the positive, the reality realized, the maturity and experiences that delivered maturity and understanding – these all contribute to soul and the lessons learned and growth achieved therefrom ALL do carry-over….not the mistakes or errors themselves but the growth and wisdom gained do so survive.
We are told that our immaturities and mortal foolishness and embarrassing moments (oh dear…how many of those do I have? Too many.) will or may be part of our education and/or entertainment in reversion. So it’s not as if all records or memories of such just vanish I don’t think. But there should be no fear or anxieties or paranoia or any form of emotional/mental instabilities….I do not think. So that which causes error/evil and the repercussions of error/evil do not survive to the Mansion Worlds (these are unrealities and temporal only) but the results of those which add to soul certainly do survive (again, according to my own understanding).
I think Jesus most ‘suffered’ from his compassion for others who are suffering – but not so much the mortal trials and tribulations which he endured and triumphed over. I think it obvious the Creator Sons all thusly ‘suffer’….an inaccurate portrayal and description IMO of such enduring love and compassion and understanding.
I think the Mansion Worlds are transitionary, transitory, rehabilitative, educational, and inspirational. It is the time between the material mind and the fused morontial mind. I’ve read nothing in the Papers that make me even suspect that animal fear and its attendant poisons have any mechanism for survival or “…be carried over to the Mansions”.
Indeed, I would say further that IMO some of the most dangerous imaginings I’ve read on the UB sites are by those despairing and dark minds which transfer the material and animal minded falsehoods onto the celestial abode and heaven to come. This is a deep and lingering bias that distorts the Good News we have been presented….still making god in our own twisted images.
Are we to trust Father….or not? Is love the will and way of Father’s universe…or not? Did Jesus lie or tell the truth when he, over and over and over again, said the Universe is friendly? Let us trust the Lord. Did not the Master teach that his gospel was joyful and should fill us with peace and confidence in all that is to come and all that is to be? Yes….I believe He did!!
But there should be no fear or anxieties or paranoia or any form of emotional/mental instabilities….I do not think. So that which causes error/evil and the repercussions of error/evil do not survive to the Mansion Worlds . . .
Do you think that certain immature habits of thinking some how manage to make it to the mansion worlds? Habits of thinking like the vestigial animal traits mentioned in quote 48:5.8? The ones that need to be eradicated. Use of the words vestigial and eradication seems to imply that these imperfect modes of thinking are part of the soul. If not, how else would they get “carried over”?
48:5.8 One of the purposes of the morontia career is to effect the permanent eradication from the mortal survivors of such animal vestigial traits as procrastination, equivocation, insincerity, problem avoidance, unfairness, and ease seeking. The mansonia life early teaches the young morontia pupils that postponement is in no sense avoidance. After the life in the flesh, time is no longer available as a technique of dodging situations or of circumventing disagreeable obligations.
In other words, if the animal mind is left behind, how is that we still have animal vestigial traits?
In other words, if the animal mind is left behind, how is that we still have animal vestigial traits?
Could it be due to it being transferred as a part of our unfinished or unfinalized personality, apart from our animal minds?
In other words, if the animal mind is left behind, how is that we still have animal vestigial traits?
Could it be due to it being transferred as a part of our unfinished or unfinalized personality, apart from our animal mind?
In other words, if the animal mind is left behind, how is that we still have animal vestigial traits?
Could it be due to it being transferred as a part of our unfinished or unfinalized personality, apart from our animal mind?
Apparently I am only now beginning to appreciate and understand BB’s inquiry here. So I obviously misread the question. The question is NOT ‘can errors be carried over’ BUT can one’s erroneous “way” be carried over. It does help to understand the question. Thanks Bonita for drilling ever-deeper into all topics and issues and related teachings!! You shine. Always make me think and reconsider my own perspective. I am gaining comfort and confidence in my own confusions and uncertainties and learning to embrace them as simple learning tools and opportunities….if you’re not confused, you’re not paying attention!
Okay….to the question. IMO, we must consider the role that inexperience with and ignorance of REALITY plays in our Mansion World experience. There is no ipso-facto gain in wisdom or experience or knowledge when awakened on the Mansion Worlds…we begin where we left off regarding soul content, reality adjustment, transfer of the seat of identity, Circle progress, discernment, knowledge, and wisdom.
Apparently, by the quote posted above, “…procrastination, equivocation, insincerity, problem avoidance, unfairness, and ease seeking….” are elements of inexperienced immaturity which require a weaning process to the degree that each of us embraces those vestiges.
As pointed out…our immaturity will continue to lead to error, perhaps even to the degree of evil as we progress. Perhaps some survive mortality and come to actually embrace sin? I don’t see how given the situation. However, survival does not equate to fusion and we are not given name and number until then so one must or may presume there is still potential for failure to attain the eternal estate?
Anyway…thanks for the topic BB…glad I finally found my way TO the actual topic!!
I apologize. I kept hitting the “quote” button when I intended to hit “edit.”
I blame it on my animal mind!
Apparently, by the quote posted above, “…procrastination, equivocation, insincerity, problem avoidance, unfairness, and ease seeking….” are elements of inexperienced immaturity which require a weaning process to the degree that each of us embraces those vestiges.
Yeah, but what is immature? The only things that make it to the mansion worlds is the soul, the personality and the Adjuster. Which one is immature?
Well, I think everyone can agree that the Adjuster is not immature. That’s a gimme.
I also think that Enno’s idea that the personality is unfinished (immature) can’t be true either. If that were true, the personality would have to change to become more “finished,” and we know that the personality does not change. The personality realitizes (new word) . . . becomes more real, but it does not change.
What’s left? The poor soul! So just how do those animal vestiges get into the soul in the first place? Could it be that the soul is not perfect?
If the soul is imperfect, what’s actually in it then? If the contents of the soul is supposed to be all our worthwhile experiences with lasting value, then what’s so worthwhile and lasting about animal vestiges? What’s the value in “carrying over”such bad habits as procrastination, equivocation, insincerity, problem avoidance, unfairness, and ease seeking into the next world? There must be some educational value, or something the Adjuster sees as “not so bad” (think gray areas) for the stage we’re in.
If the soul is evolving, doesn’t it need to have something to evolve from and with? Here’s a clue. In the quote they use the word traits . . . animal vestigial traits. Traits have to do with character. The soul has a character, a nature, a temperament, an identity quality.
Sooooo … I was going to start another topic on the character of the soul. Still thinking about it. It’s going to be very hard to explain.
I get what you mean that personality doesn’t change Bonita. But how about its quality? Isn’t that what they are referring to by saying “trait?” That can change right? Why, I think my personality has improved since last week for example, just ask Bradly.
It is not personality I do not think…but rather character that reflects one’s maturity, experience, wisdom, and fruits of the spirit – and the lack thereof.
I’ll hold my opinion about your claimed improvements based on another site at which you seem to enjoy the ankle biters who continue to assault me…..hahahaha….not that I mind while wearing bull hide boots! Annoying….but no blood drawn so far. We shall see. I believe you called me a Spiritual Terrorist just last week (July 7), no? And shouted (all caps) that my ignorance is STUPENDOUS!!
You know Enno, one of the 12 steps is acknowledging and accepting responsibility for one’s acts against others and another is to make amends. I’ll be waiting at TB for that……………just sayin’……….. = )
Improvement is always a good thing….and most often an incremental thing. Glad you notice the result of personal growth Enno. It’s all good.
I get what you mean that personality doesn’t change Bonita. But how about its quality?
Not sure what you mean by “quality” Enno. Personality IS quality, as far as I understand it. Isn’t that why the Adjusters want it? I think you might be referring to its reality realization?
112:0.3 1. Personality is that quality in reality which is bestowed by the Universal Father himself or by the Conjoint Actor, acting for the Father.
5:6.3 Personality is that quality and value in cosmic reality which is exclusively bestowed by God the Father upon these living systems of the associated and co-ordinated energies of matter, mind, and spirit. Neither is personality a progressive achievement.
Personality becomes more real as it aligns with the Adjuster, as it progresses along the psychic circles. But don’t forget that becoming more real does not mean that the personality itself changes, it means that it has accomplished ways to better coordinate and unify its constituent parts with God’s will, thus increasing in divinity.
p1210:5 110:6.103. Personality reality. The degree of selfhood reality is directly determined by circle conquest. Persons become more real as they ascend from the seventh to the first level of mortal existence.
Don’t forget that personality is bestowed on an energy system. As we evolve, we begin to shift our system away from the material level to the next. Our goal is to have a spirit personality, i.e. a personality of a spirit being. This does not occur by the personality itself becoming perfected, it’s our “being,” or self, which becomes perfected, and it does this by personality choice.
Also, the personality has three dimensions on the finite level. These dimensions have to do with the power to choose wisely and evolve the self lengthwise, depth-wise and breadthwise. (Think balanced personality when evolution of all three are unified.)
112:1.10 The finite dimensions of personality have to do with cosmic length, depth, and breadth. Length denotes meaning; depth signifies value; breadth embraces insight — the capacity to experience unchallengeable consciousness of cosmic reality.
Again, this is difficult to explain and I doubt I have the skills to make it clear. Sorry. Just remember that the basis for the new “self” on the mansion worlds is the soul.
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