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Gene wrote: How many options are there for changing our DNA?
Hey! are you serious? . . . scientists are busy trying to do that in the lab every single day. That’s not the issue here. Yeah, sure medicine can alter genes to affect the body, but it’s the mind and soul that is the real source of change, not the body. So fahgettabout DNA unless you want to talk eugenics.
Gene wrote: How do you let God know you believe? . . . . Does belief impact DNA?God already knows if you believe, what you believe and what you don’t believe. Belief is not the issue here either. And no, belief does not impact DNA. Belief impacts the mind. I have an essay on the difference between belief and faith if you want that.
We are born with a certain set of physical genes to work with in the physical world. The spiritual world requires a different set of spiritual “genes” . . . the ones gifted by God. If genes are the pattern for the physical body, then personality is the pattern for selfhood. We can use physical genes to organize and coordinate our sense of self, or we can use God’s gift of personality to organize and coordinate our sense of self. God has also gifted us with mind. A low material level mind to help the physical self, and a higher spiritual level mind to help the spiritual self, and fortunately for us, they overlap. We get to pick. We can pick DNA, a gift from your earth mother and father, or God’s gifts. Choice, choice and more choice.
Gene wrote: Is it the words that come out of our mouths?
Words are important, but when it comes to God, it’s all about your thoughts and your attitude. I’m sure you know that quote which says thoughts move you Godward. I’m sure you also know the quote that states God doesn’t listen to the words of prayer but to the attitude of the praying mind. And everyone knows that Jesus explained how words out of the mouth can be more defiling than what goes in the mouth. He told us great men subdue their tongues and also quoted scripture saying, “Set a watch, O Lord, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips.” I wrote an essay on The Word. It took me months. I could share some of that too if you want.
Gene wrote: What about our free will choice? Is that how rebellious type stuff got into our DNA eons ago? Is this how we rearrange the double helix?The Rebellion is not literally in our DNA. What are talking about; you’re kidding right? That’s the argument at the root of the Original Sin Doctrine, which we all know is poppycock. Saying the Rebellion is in our DNA is meant figuratively. It’s the memory of it that has imbedded itself in our collective psyche as part of our global culture. It will never leave because it really happened. It’s honest-to-goodness reality we have to deal with. It’s the misunderstanding, misinformation and mythologizing about the Rebellion that is responsible for scrambling the collective psyche. TUB is here to help unscramble it. It’s mind stuff, not DNA stuff.
Gene wrote: . . . . im not convinced it’s a genetic thingYou got that right!
How many options are there for changing our DNA? How do you let God know you believe? Is it the words that come out of our mouths? Does belief impact DNA? What about our free will choice? Is that how rebellious type stuff got into our DNA eons ago? Is this how we rearrange the double helix? im not convinced it’s a genetic thing.
Gene…my apologies….I was assuming that nod/Am was speaking metaphorically about our social/cultural makeup (DNA) and not human genetics when I repeated the term. I didn’t mean to mislead or misuse the term…but it was very imprecise to make such an assumption and to use the phrase….my bad.
While the default of Adam and Eve left our world with less of their genetics than intended and normal on successful missions, and their failure did have something to do with the earlier rebellion, they did not rebel in their failure and no aspect of rebellion became any form of additive to the human gene pool…didn’t happen.
So, your conclusion is correct….it is certainly not a genetic thing….it’s a personal choice thing!!
Bonita – I would feast at any banquet you might serve up!! The topic is certainly appropriate to this discussion but feel free to begin a new subject if you wish….whenever you wish! = )
76:5.6 (852.5) The supermaterial government of Urantia, under the direction of the Melchizedeks, continued, but direct physical contact with the evolutionary races had been severed. From the distant days of the arrival of the corporeal staff of the Planetary Prince, down through the times of Van and Amadon to the arrival of Adam and Eve, physical representatives of the universe government had been stationed on the planet. But with the Adamic default this regime, extending over a period of more than four hundred and fifty thousand years, came to an end. In the spiritual spheres, angelic helpers continued to struggle in conjunction with the Thought Adjusters, both working heroically for the salvage of the individual; but no comprehensive plan for far-reaching world welfare was promulgated to the mortals of earth until the arrival of Machiventa Melchizedek, in the times of Abraham, who, with the power, patience, and authority of a Son of God, did lay the foundations for the further uplift and spiritual rehabilitation of unfortunate Urantia.
76:5.7 (853.1) Misfortune has not, however, been the sole lot of Urantia; this planet has also been the most fortunate in the local universe of Nebadon. Urantians should count it all gain if the blunders of their ancestors and the mistakes of their early world rulers so plunged the planet into such a hopeless state of confusion, all the more confounded by evil and sin, that this very background of darkness should so appeal to Michael of Nebadon that he selected this world as the arena wherein to reveal the loving personality of the Father in heaven. It is not that Urantia needed a Creator Son to set its tangled affairs in order; it is rather that the evil and sin on Urantia afforded the Creator Son a more striking background against which to reveal the matchless love, mercy, and patience of the Paradise Father.
And I’ll apologize for not being bright enough to pick up a metaphor.
but sorting it out was a good exercise, regardless.
(195:5.12) As you view the world, remember that the black patches of evil which you see are shown against a white background of ultimate good. You do not view merely white patches of good which show up miserably against a black background of evil.
For people of faith, no matter what culture, no matter what religion, no matter what family tradition, life is amazingly purposeful, hopeful, positive and beautiful. Especially when it’s considered how God transforms disappointment and defeat into fulfilment and success through the experience of faithfulness. This may be the greatest “proof” that “all things work together for good to those who love God,”
It is now up to us, those who love God, at this Epochal point in the history of our world to make a beginning of putting things straight. To convert the combined mind of traditional negativism and hopelessness that’s deeply ingrained in the default attitude of a lot of people into the rebirth of focus on the true background of love and how the gift of faith can be given back to God to allow what is believed to impact what’s about to become very real in our world.
Enno
(195:5.12) As you view the world, remember that the black patches of evil which you see are shown against a white background of ultimate good. You do not view merely white patches of good which show up miserably against a black background of evil. For people of faith, no matter what culture, no matter what religion, no matter what family tradition, life is amazingly purposeful, hopeful, positive and beautiful. Especially when it’s considered how God transforms disappointment and defeat into fulfilment and success through the experience of faithfulness. This may be the greatest “proof” that “all things work together for good to those who love God,” It is now up to us, those who love God, at this Epochal point in the history of our world to make a beginning of putting things straight. To convert the combined mind of traditional negativism and hopelessness that’s deeply ingrained in the default attitude of a lot of people into the rebirth of focus on the true background of love and how the gift of faith can be given back to God to allow what is believed to impact what’s about to become very real in our world. Enno
be agondonter now
Well said Gene!! It really is not about “what” we are to “do”….but who we are to be. The expressions of our faith are to be very personal and daily as we walk by. The work at hand is at hand every day. It is the fruits of the spirit led life that sow the seeds of truth for the current and future generations. Our history is filled with so many valiant examples of those who carried the torch of love and truth and faith in their time and generation. We are their beneficiaries. Do we shine our own light? No matter how small or dim it may be, when joined together as the children of the kingdom of God then does the seed become the tree and then the forest spreading ever more seed in every generation to help the rulers of our little world to transform it through the Mortal Epochs. The only “what” needing our attention truly is growing the inner life and light and give that expression personally as we walk by….or so I understand.
While the following words and instructions of our Master Son were spoken to the apostles, these are most appropriate for all us tadpoles and agondonters-in-training:
178:1.14 (1931.5) You are not to be passive mystics or colorless ascetics; you should not become dreamers and drifters, supinely trusting in a fictitious Providence to provide even the necessities of life. You are indeed to be gentle in your dealings with erring mortals, patient in your intercourse with ignorant men, and forbearing under provocation; but you are also to be valiant in defense of righteousness, mighty in the promulgation of truth, and aggressive in the preaching of this gospel of the kingdom, even to the ends of the earth.
178:1.15 (1931.6) This gospel of the kingdom is a living truth. I have told you it is like the leaven in the dough, like the grain of mustard seed; and now I declare that it is like the seed of the living being, which, from generation to generation, while it remains the same living seed, unfailingly unfolds itself in new manifestations and grows acceptably in channels of new adaptation to the peculiar needs and conditions of each successive generation. The revelation I have made to you is a living revelation, and I desire that it shall bear appropriate fruits in each individual and in each generation in accordance with the laws of spiritual growth, increase, and adaptative development. From generation to generation this gospel must show increasing vitality and exhibit greater depth of spiritual power. It must not be permitted to become merely a sacred memory, a mere tradition about me and the times in which we now live.
178:1.17 (1932.2) Throughout the vicissitudes of life, remember always to love one another. Do not strive with men, even with unbelievers. Show mercy even to those who despitefully abuse you. Show yourselves to be loyal citizens, upright artisans, praiseworthy neighbors, devoted kinsmen, understanding parents, and sincere believers in the brotherhood of the Father’s kingdom. And my spirit shall be upon you, now and even to the end of the world.
Remember that admonition *if you have faith, have it to yourself*? Based on my own experience of faith, faith is so deep and so profound and so all-encompassing and so certain that I cannot describe it. For me it’s too personal.
When I think of *belief* I think of this reference: “While the mind is not the seat of the spiritual nature, it is indeed the gateway thereto.” (155:6.13)
86:2.4 Man naturally tends to believe that which he deems best for him, that which is in his immediate or remote interest; self-interest largely obscures logic. The difference between the minds of savage and civilized men is more one of content than of nature, of degree rather than of quality..100:7.10 The Master was always generous. He never grew weary of saying, “It is more blessed to give than to receive.” Said he, “Freely you have received, freely give.” And yet, with all of his unbounded generosity, he was never wasteful or extravagant. He taught that you must believe to receive salvation. “For every one who seeks shall receive.”Seems to me people would start out (in some cases) thinking there is a possibility that God exists. I mean, don’t people think about it first? Don’t they have to believe God’s existence is possible? I didn’t grow up in a family that believed in God. Maybe my parents thought about God at sometime in their individual lives. I don’t know. Maybe they thought about God and concluded either 1) he might exist, or, 2) he didn’t exist. My home was hostile toward Jesus and anything churchy. But I wasn’t buying it. I never denied God’s existence.195:6.16 Freedom or initiative in any realm of existence is directly proportional to the degree of spiritual influence and cosmic-mind control; that is, in human experience, the degree of the actuality of doing “the Father’s will.” And so, when you once start out to find God, that is the conclusive proof that God has already found you.Certain events that happened in my life really impacted me and no doubt others are yet to come, such as death and translation. What I observe is how my perspective has changed over time. What I understand and believe today is superior to what I understood and believed in the past. I think I am better equipped today and this improvement is normal. The same is true for you too..196:3.26 The evolutionary mind is able to discover law, morals, and ethics; but the bestowed spirit, the indwelling Adjuster, reveals to the evolving human mind the lawgiver, the Father-source of all that is true, beautiful, and good; and such an illuminated man has a religion and is spiritually equipped to begin the long and adventurous search for God.I think we’re called faith-sons for a reason. (132:4.2)Wonderful Mara….thank you! And such great timing.
Just re-read Paper 107 – “The Origin and Nature of Thought Adjusters”. A must read in the discussion of Agondonters. Too much to post, every word describes these ministers, teachers, partners, pilots, and future fusion hopefuls!
Personality is a key element in this Paper as is volition in this potential destiny for us blessed mortals born in time and space. It appears we are the envy of the universes! (not really envy I don’t think…but you’ll know what I mean when you read the Paper)
Okay, can’t help myself:
107:0.1 (1176.1) ALTHOUGH the Universal Father is personally resident on Paradise, at the very center of the universes, he is also actually present on the worlds of space in the minds of his countless children of time, for he indwells them as the Mystery Monitors. The eternal Father is at one and the same time farthest removed from, and most intimately associated with, his planetary mortal sons.
107:0.2 (1176.2) The Adjusters are the actuality of the Father’s love incarnate in the souls of men; they are the veritable promise of man’s eternal career imprisoned within the mortal mind; they are the essence of man’s perfected finaliter personality, which he can foretaste in time as he progressively masters the divine technique of achieving the living of the Father’s will, step by step, through the ascension of universe upon universe until he actually attains the divine presence of his Paradise Father.107:0.3 (1176.3) God, having commanded man to be perfect, even as he is perfect, has descended as the Adjuster to become man’s experiential partner in the achievement of the supernal destiny which has been thus ordained. The fragment of God which indwells the mind of man is the absolute and unqualified assurance that man can find the Universal Father in association with this divine Adjuster, which came forth from God to find man and sonship him even in the days of the flesh.
107:0.4 (1176.4) Any mortal who has seen a Creator Son has seen the Universal Father, and he who is indwelt by a divine Adjuster is indwelt by the Paradise Father. Every mortal who is consciously or unconsciously following the leading of his indwelling Adjuster is living in accordance with the will of God. Consciousness of Adjuster presence is consciousness of God’s presence. Eternal fusion of the Adjuster with the evolutionary soul of man is the factual experience of eternal union with God as a universe associate of Deity.
107:0.5 (1176.5) It is the Adjuster who creates within man that unquenchable yearning and incessant longing to be like God, to attain Paradise, and there before the actual person of Deity to worship the infinite source of the divine gift. The Adjuster is the living presence which actually links the mortal son with his Paradise Father and draws him nearer and nearer to the Father. The Adjuster is our compensatory equalization of the enormous universe tension which is created by the distance of man’s removal from God and by the degree of his partiality in contrast with the universality of the eternal Father.
The interesting thing about beliefs is that they generally need to be changed. That’s because beliefs are not flexible and alive like living faith. Beliefs are thought structures, scaffolding built by the material intellect. Beliefs are built upon facts, but not all facts are true. Not all accepted facts are rooted in reality, something we’ve collectively learned over the long millennia of human existence and highlighted so well in TUB.
Take for example the belief that the sun revolved around the earth. A whole world thought-structure was built around a belief in a fact which was false. At the time, it was a well-known and established or settled fact (not unlike climate change today). When new facts were discovered, beliefs and world views had to be rebuilt. It was shocking! And we know how difficult that was for the world to change its beliefs and thoughts.
Beliefs form the scaffolding of material level thought structure and are meant to be discarded when new information concerning facts result in the formation of new beliefs with the need for new scaffolding. This doesn’t happen with faith. Faith is derived from an individual relationship with God. No group-think required, no set of facts required other than the truth of the fact that the relationship really exists. And this recognition of reality is something that can only be experienced in the soul, which operates on a different level of intellect. The intellect of the soul is the Holy Spirit. It is a morontia level of intellect which is highly susceptible to the Adjuster. Beliefs are derived from the material intellect; faith is derived from the Adjuster.
Beliefs are built in time; faith is a gift from the Infinite and Eternal Original Builder Himself. Beliefs progress best when they are influenced by true faith, when thoughts are restructured based upon living faith discovered within the soul. This is the reason why they say that civilization progresses only with insight into the inner world of man, his soul.
111:4.5 Only in the higher levels of the superconscious mind as it impinges upon the spirit realm of human experience can you find those higher concepts in association with effective master patterns which will contribute to the building of a better and more enduring civilization. Personality is inherently creative, but it thus functions only in the inner life of the individual.
The interesting thing about beliefs is that they generally need to be changed. That’s because beliefs are not flexible and alive like living faith. Beliefs are thought structures, scaffolding built by the material intellect. Beliefs are built upon facts, but not all facts are true. Not all accepted facts are rooted in reality, something we’ve collectively learned over the long millennia of human existence and highlighted so well in TUB. Take for example the belief that the sun revolved around the earth. A whole world thought-structure was built around a belief in a fact which was false. At the time, it was a well-known and established or settled fact (not unlike climate change today). When new facts were discovered, beliefs and world views had to be rebuilt. It was shocking! And we know how difficult that was for the world to change its beliefs and thoughts. Beliefs form the scaffolding of material level thought structure and are meant to be discarded when new information concerning facts result in the formation of new beliefs with the need for new scaffolding. This doesn’t happen with faith. Faith is derived from an individual relationship with God. No group-think required, no set of facts required other than the truth of the fact that the relationship really exists. And this recognition of reality is something that can only be experienced in the soul, which operates on a different level of intellect. The intellect of the soul is the Holy Spirit. It is a morontia level of intellect which is highly susceptible to the Adjuster. Beliefs are derived from the material intellect; faith is derived from the Adjuster. Beliefs are built in time; faith is a gift from the Infinite and Eternal Original Builder Himself. Beliefs progress best when they are influenced by true faith, when thoughts are restructured based upon living faith discovered within the soul. This is the reason why they say that civilization progresses only with insight into the inner world of man, his soul.
111:4.5 Only in the higher levels of the superconscious mind as it impinges upon the spirit realm of human experience can you find those higher concepts in association with effective master patterns which will contribute to the building of a better and more enduring civilization. Personality is inherently creative, but it thus functions only in the inner life of the individual.
possibly on a planet endowed with visible deity that we could interact with our beliefs would be more in sync with our faith.
possibly on a planet endowed with visible deity that we could interact with our beliefs would be more in sync with our faith.
By your statement above, it appears that you assume that there are no “visible deity” present to be seen? However, one must be transformed from within to be able to recognize these “visible deity” or Son’s of God, and other beings, who are available to be seen as such. Just because you do not see or recognize them, in everyday life, does not mean that they do not exist, and it would not have anything to do with “beliefs” or “faith”, for that matter, to think that they would prefer not to be associated to or as “deity”?
(106.10) 9:8.12 Both First Source and Third Source personalities are endowed with all and more than man associates with the concept of personality; they have minds embracing memory, reason, judgment, creative imagination, idea association, decision, choice, and numerous additional powers of intellect wholly unknown to mortals. With few exceptions the orders revealed to you possess form and distinct individuality; they are real beings. A majority of them are visible to all orders of spirit existence.
(107.1) 9:8.13 Even you will be able to see your spiritual associates of the lower orders as soon as you are delivered from the limited vision of your present material eyes and have been endowed with a morontia form with its enlarged sensitivity to the reality of spiritual things.
In keeping with Jesus’ appearing after His Resurrection, to those who knew Him, but at first did not realize that it was He who they knew from before, in the flesh, but recognized Him from His personality and manor, and even were able to interact with Him physically, that it was He who they could see and interact with. Therefore, there should be no reason to think that there are not other beings available to be seen, even though they do not identify themselves as having achieved a higher status living among us? Just because one’s limitation in vision keeps you from seeing that which is, does not mean that there are others who can[not] see.
(225.7) 20:2.8 There is no limit to the number of times the Avonal Sons may serve on magisterial and on bestowal missions, but usually, when the experience has been seven times traversed, there is suspension in favor of those who have had less of such service. These Sons of multiple bestowal experience are then assigned to the high personal council of a Creator Son, thus becoming participants in the administration of universe affairs.
(225.8) 20:2.9 In all their work for and on the inhabited worlds, the Magisterial Sons are assisted by two orders of local universe creatures, the Melchizedeks and the archangels, while on bestowal missions they are also accompanied by the Brilliant Evening Stars, likewise of origin in the local creations. In every planetary effort the secondary Paradise Sons, the Avonals, are supported by the full power and authority of a primary Paradise Son, the Creator Son of their local universe of service. To all intents and purposes their work on the inhabited spheres is just as effective and acceptable as would have been the service of a Creator Son upon such worlds of mortal habitation.
(483.12) 42:12.12 On a material world you think of a body as having a spirit, but we regard the spirit as having a body. The material eyes are truly the windows of the spirit-born soul. The spirit is the architect, the mind is the builder, the body is the material building.
(484.1) 42:12.13 Physical, spiritual, and mindal energies, as such and in their pure states, do not fully interact as actuals of the phenomenal universes. On Paradise the three energies are co-ordinate, in Havona coordinated, while in the universe levels of finite activities there must be encountered all ranges of material, mindal, and spiritual dominance. In nonpersonal situations of time and space, physical energy seems to predominate, but it also appears that the more nearly spirit-mind function approaches divinity of purpose and supremacy of action, the more nearly does the spirit phase become dominant; that on the ultimate level spirit-mind may become all but completely dominant. On the absolute level spirit certainly is dominant. And from there on out through the realms of time and space, wherever a divine spirit reality is present, whenever a real spirit-mind is functioning, there always tends to be produced a material or physical counterpart of that spirit reality.
(484.2) 42:12.14 The spirit is the creative reality; the physical counterpart is the time-space reflection of the spirit reality, the physical repercussion of the creative action of spirit-mind.
By your statement above, it appears that you assume that there are no “visible deity” present to be seen? However, one must be transformed from within to be able to recognize these “visible deity” or Son’s of God, and other beings, who are available to be seen as such. Just because you do not see or recognize them, in everyday life, does not mean that they do not exist, and it would not have anything to do with “beliefs” or “faith”, for that matter, to think that they would prefer not to be associated to or as “deity”?
Im curious: do you interact with visible deity?
my statement was within the realm of the planetary prince or Melchizedek or Adam and Eve. Beyond the incarnated sons, uplifters, I’m a bit out of touch I’m afraid.
Just because one’s limitation in vision keeps you from seeing that which is, does not mean that there are others who can see.
I see what you mean.
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