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Posts
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MidiChlorian wrote: Also, all the “Life Carriers” do not “vamoose”, a few do often stick around.
By “vamoose” I mean they cannot interfere with free will. Their work TERMINATES. (36:3.8; 62:7.6; 65:0.6) The fact that they were permitted to leave two senior Life Carriers and their assistants behind on Urantia as advisers has nothing at all to do with future mutations.(62:7.6) It was because Urantia is an experimental life-modification planet. Those two senior Life Carriers had to take vows of renunciation, promising to refrain from all attempts to influence evolution. And when they took those vows, they were assisted by a commission of 12 observers who are supervised by the chief of the Evening Stars, to make sure that the vow is upheld and there is no interference with the newly evolved will creatures.(65:1.8) In fact, Paper 65 was sponsored by one of those remaining senior Life Carriers.
MidiChlorian wrote: If you look at Life Carriers as radiation, of various kinds, that which activates and binds, and others which mutate various organisms, a few would need to stay resident, like solar radiation to continue the mutation process, and or keep life flowing.
HUH???? What does solar radiation have to do with Life Carriers? Maybe you’re thinking of physical controllers?
In other words, would nothing have changed since your original thoughts, which would modify them in any way,
NO. The soul does not pre-exist. It is the Adjuster who pre-exists. The soul is born right here on earth with the first moral decision around age 5. Prior to that point in time and space, it does not exist. The soul is not lying around dormant somewhere waiting to be activated, as you suggest.
The soul is not lying around dormant somewhere waiting to be activated, as you suggest.
You are correct in suggesting that the soul is not dormant, but the soul is in essence a sleep, such like a persons subconscious. Where a person’s various consciousness and self awareness and in association with the Thought Adjuster upon their first moral choice, indicates that this person has human potential.
(1478.3) 133:6.4 There was a progressive thinker connected with this local school of philosophy, and Jesus had several profitable sessions with him. In the course of these talks Jesus had repeatedly used the word “soul.” This learned Greek finally asked him what he meant by “soul,” and he replied:
(1478.4) 133:6.5 “The soul is the self-reflective, truth-discerning, and spirit-perceiving part of man which forever elevates the human being above the level of the animal world. Self-consciousness, in and of itself, is not the soul. Moral self-consciousness is true human self-realization and constitutes the foundation of the human soul, and the soul is that part of man which represents the potential survival value of human experience. Moral choice and spiritual attainment, the ability to know God and the urge to be like him, are the characteristics of the soul. The soul of man cannot exist apart from moral thinking and spiritual activity. A stagnant soul is a dying soul. But the soul of man is distinct from the divine spirit which dwells within the mind. The divine spirit arrives simultaneously with the first moral activity of the human mind, and that is the occasion of the birth of the soul.
(1478.5) 133:6.6 “The saving or losing of a soul has to do with whether or not the moral consciousness attains survival status through eternal alliance with its associated immortal spirit endowment. Salvation is the spiritualization of the self-realization of the moral consciousness, which thereby becomes possessed of survival value. All forms of soul conflict consist in the lack of harmony between the moral, or spiritual, self-consciousness and the purely intellectual self-consciousness.
(1478.6) 133:6.7 “The human soul, when matured, ennobled, and spiritualized, approaches the heavenly status in that it comes near to being an entity intervening between the material and the spiritual, the material self and the divine spirit. The evolving soul of a human being is difficult of description and more difficult of demonstration because it is not discoverable by the methods of either material investigation or spiritual proving. Material science cannot demonstrate the existence of a soul, neither can pure spirit-testing. Notwithstanding the failure of both material science and spiritual standards to discover the existence of the human soul, every morally conscious mortal knows of the existence of his soul as a real and actual personal experience.”
Even though the arrival of the Thought Adjuster “occasion of the birth of the soul”, it does not indicate that a soul did not exist prior to this first moral decision, it just means that without this first moral decision, the soul is without potential to evolve, but still a soul and somewhat acting on animal instincts. With the onset of that moral decision, this person’s attention now has evolved from the selfish self-consciousness and recognized that they have will, whereby they recognize that others have will as well.
3. The Evolving Soul
(1218.9) 111:3.1 The mistakes of mortal mind and the errors of human conduct may markedly delay the evolution of the soul, although they cannot inhibit such a morontia phenomenon when once it has been initiated by the indwelling Adjuster with the consent of the creature will. But at any time prior to mortal death this same material and human will is empowered to rescind such a choice and to reject survival. Even after survival the ascending mortal still retains this prerogative of choosing to reject eternal life; at any time before fusion with the Adjuster the evolving and ascending creature can choose to forsake the will of the Paradise Father. Fusion with the Adjuster signalizes the fact that the ascending mortal has eternally and unreservedly chosen to do the Father’s will.
(1219.1) 111:3.2 During the life in the flesh the evolving soul is enabled to reinforce the supermaterial decisions of the mortal mind. The soul, being supermaterial, does not of itself function on the material level of human experience. Neither can this subspiritual soul, without the collaboration of some spirit of Deity, such as the Adjuster, function above the morontia level. Neither does the soul make final decisions until death or translation divorces it from material association with the mortal mind except when and as this material mind delegates such authority freely and willingly to such a morontia soul of associated function. During life the mortal will, the personality power of decision-choice, is resident in the material mind circuits; as terrestrial mortal growth proceeds, this self, with its priceless powers of choice, becomes increasingly identified with the emerging morontia-soul entity; after death and following the mansion world resurrection, the human personality is completely identified with the morontia self. The soul is thus the embryo of the future morontia vehicle of personality identity.
(1219.2) 111:3.3 This immortal soul is at first wholly morontia in nature, but it possesses such a capacity for development that it invariably ascends to the true spirit levels of fusion value with the spirits of Deity, usually with the same spirit of the Universal Father that initiated such a creative phenomenon in the creature mind.
(1219.3) 111:3.4 Both the human mind and the divine Adjuster are conscious of the presence and differential nature of the evolving soul — the Adjuster fully, the mind partially. The soul becomes increasingly conscious of both the mind and the Adjuster as associated identities, proportional to its own evolutionary growth. The soul partakes of the qualities of both the human mind and the divine spirit but persistently evolves toward augmentation of spirit control and divine dominance through the fostering of a mind function whose meanings seek to co-ordinate with true spirit value.
(1219.4) 111:3.5 The mortal career, the soul’s evolution, is not so much a probation as an education. Faith in the survival of supreme values is the core of religion; genuine religious experience consists in the union of supreme values and cosmic meanings as a realization of universal reality.
(1219.5) 111:3.6 Mind knows quantity, reality, meanings. But quality — values — is felt. That which feels is the mutual creation of mind, which knows, and the associated spirit, which reality-izes.
In other words, would nothing have changed since your original thoughts, which would modify them in any way, or are your thoughts static based on your previous writings or understanding?
Me here: I must admit connfusion and some annoyance regarding the question and imbedded insinuation. Are you asking if nothing has changed in the universe since she wrote the above? Or the reality that souls are and have always been a mortal and TA originated “self” needs no modification? Or that Bonita is “static” in her religious experience? Or that her prior perspective on the origination of soul and the functions/relationships of the Adjutants to mind and soul has remain unchanged since she posted these words previously?
Thank you Bonita for taking time to reply specifically to some of the speculations and declarations and inferences that are posted and not supported by text….pre-existence of mortal minds or souls being one such example. This forum (and others) I think demonstrate the wisdom of the written epochal at this time. It says what it says and it don’t say what it don’t….and it is not the least bit unintelligible or inconsistent or mysterious (if indeed, exhaustive, comprehensive, and filled with new concepts)….those students who insist on hidden meanings or secret keys or otherwise misstate its contents are refuted by the text itself, allowing every student and generation of students have the Revelation written for their own understanding, interpretations, and misinterpretations.
I appreciate your persistence here to present such comprehensive presentations of the teachings found within and do so, endlessly and “religiously” including text itself to illustrate your understandings and perspective. I also appreciate your fellow students who require such persistence and patience with our questions, objections, and disagreements…..and sometimes merely a different way of attempting to say much of the same thing. Loving this topic.
I must admit connfusion and some annoyance regarding the question and imbedded insinuation. Are you asking if nothing has changed in the universe since she wrote the above? Or the reality that souls are and have always been a mortal and TA originated “self” needs no modification? Or that Bonita is “static” in her religious experience? Or that her prior perspective on the origination of soul and the functions/relationships of the Adjutants to mind and soul has remain unchanged since she posted these words previously?
Bradly, my statement to Bonita, is in reference to her posting of her written notes on a specific Gnostic topic which she holds. Where in my previous post, not having mentioned anything Gnostic, nor intended to refer to anything Gnostic, but here like on the old forum, she did exactly the same thing, literally stating that what I posted was Gnostic in nature, whereby on the old forum made statements to the same as here. There and here she did not ask me if I was referring to Gnosticism but made a presumption, as she did on the old forum, where she did not sight her written words as to her feelings regarding this subject. However, on the old forum her statements had mixed several different Gnostic doctrine and mixed them into her one combined understanding of Gnostic doctrine, which I responded then, and have now. Where now, she posted her written notes which were not separated by quotation marks, and the last paragraph, seemed to be current and not part of her previous notation, for which I asked, but in general it would seem that anything “Gnostic” or sounds “Gnostic” sets off bells and whistles, for some reason? Wherein on the old forum, I asked her questions as to her study of specific Gnostic doctrine, verses having only a general summary of the subject, whereby she did not reply. Also, one other reason for asking, regarding here written notes, was to ascertain where anything had changed since then and now being, that her mind set seemed static as apposed to dynamic, where nothing could change this mindset, regardless of dynamic variables which would replace static notation which are not variable in nature, with new information of translations or interpretations of various subjects.
MidiChlorian wrote: You are correct in suggesting that the soul is not dormant, but the soul is in essence a sleep, such like a persons subconscious.The soul cannot be asleep. If the soul were asleep, it would be in a stagnant state which is the same as a dying soul.(133:6.5) The soul is part of an ever changing relationship and if the change should stop, the relationship would stop and the soul would cease to exist.(112:0.15) The moment the soul is born, it continues to grow, in and of itself. (117:3.6) The soul is a self-perpetuating relationship, alive and progressing. The only rest a soul needs is worship, a form of restful spiritual exertion. (143:7.7) The fact that, for the most part, people are not conscious of their souls, and the fact that the soul is not conscious of the mortal mind (111:3.4), has nothing at all to do with sleeping. It has to do circle progression. All of this changes as the personality ascends the circles and becomes more real, and likewise, more aware of reality.
MidiChlorian wrote: Where a person’s various consciousness and self awareness and in association with the Thought Adjuster upon their first moral choice, indicates that this person has human potential.The first moral choice is not made in association with the Adjuster. The first moral choice is made in association with the 6th and 7th adjutant mind-spirits. Morality is a superanimal phenomenon, which makes it altogether human. (5:5.1; 12:5.10; 196:3.25) Such a decision indicates to the universe that the individual personality has chosen to be guided by the spirits of worship and wisdom. And when this happens, the universe responds with additional ministries to assist that personality in its worship and wisdom craving: the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth and the Thought Adjuster. (65:7.7; 92:0.4; 110:6.13)
MidiChlorian wrote: Even though the arrival of the Thought Adjuster “occasion of the birth of the soul”, it does not indicate that a soul did not exist prior to this first moral decision, it just means that without this first moral decision, the soul is without potential to evolve, but still a soul and somewhat acting on animal instincts.No Midi, you are very much mistaken. The soul does not exist prior to the first moral decision. But there is pre-existent potential for the creation of a soul in any personality in contact with the 6th adjutant mind-spirit who is preparing to make that decision; and once made, is evidence of contact with the 7th adjutant. (62:6.5) This indicates that the way has been prepared by the adjutants for the coming of the Holy Spirit to that free-will deciding, worship craving and wisdom desiring mind. (36:5.16) The supra-adjutant presence of the Holy Spirit then makes it possible for the mind to also receive the Spirit of Truth and the Thought Adjuster. (34:5.4; 110:6.13)
There are three antecedent requirements for the creation of a soul: a human mind influenced by the higher mind adjutants; a divine spirit, the Adjuster; and a relationship between the human mind and the divine spirit. (111:2.4-7)The relationship IS the soul and there cannot be a soul without both human mind and spirit mind relating to one another, and this takes place within the soul. The first moral decision is the signal to the universe that the personality wants to begin the relationship, and that is when the soul is born.
If it the soul pre-exists, as you claim, then it exists without the contribution of the human mind and without the free-will desire of the personality. This is not possible because the soul is a relationship and it cannot exist without both parties. The relationship also requires personality experience, experience with human mind making decisions in line with the will of God. Pre-existence would deny the existence of the relationship, the value of free-will choice and the importance of personality experience in the evolution of the Supreme.
A soul is a joint creation from two substances: material and spiritual. If what you are saying is true concerning pre-existence, then there would have to be some kind of inert morontia soul substance pre-created, hanging around waiting to be activated by a decision. A pre-created soul would deny the personality an opportunity for cocreation of its divine nature. Therefore, if the soul pre-exists, it must have a pre-existent creator other than the individual personality which defeats its whole purpose.
Think about it. If the soul is unique to the personality’s experience, then if what you say is true, the personality would have to come already equipped with its own unique empty morontia soul sack just waiting to be filled with the experience of decision-making. Yet we are told that the soul is entirely NEW, ORIGINAL and UNIQUE. (111:2.3) I’m quite certain that a brand new morontia reality (0:5.10; 111:2.3; 111:2.10) couldn’t possibly come ready-made. If so, it wouldn’t be NEW. The creation of a soul depends on individual, original and unique personality experience using free will. What you’re suggesting is that the PRE-existing soul has had PRE-experience with PRE-will, then just sits around waiting for another experience of moral decision-making to spring it to life as part of some remembrance ritual, or gnosis, of a PRE-existent life. That’s just a bunch of piffle! utter ordure! and totally inconsistent with the revelation.
MidiChlorian wrote: With the onset of that moral decision, this person’s attention now has evolved from the selfish self-consciousness and recognized that they have will, whereby they recognize that others have will as well.The awareness of otherness is a built-in feature of personality (16:8.6; 16:9.7; 102:4.3). It is the denial of self-will in favor of other-than-self will that makes a decision unselfish. And an unselfish decision is a religious experience, religious because it has to do with soul growth. (103:2.8) The mere presence of personality is sufficient for the recognition of other personalities as well as recognizing one’s own will as it interacts with the will of others. Volition and personality are inseparable. (5:6.4: 16:8.5; 54:2.3; 118:7.7) When personality is bestowed upon evolutionary material creatures, it causes spirit to strive for the mastery of energy-matter through the mediation of mind. (12:8.14; 112:0.6; 116:6.1; 117:3.2), and it does this through the function of volition. Personality responds directly to other personality presence and is characterized by morality-awareness of the relativity of relationships with other persons. Personality innately discerns conduct levels within these relationships and choosingly discriminates between them. (112:0.11) But this is another topic altogether.
In other words, would nothing have changed since your original thoughts, which would modify them in any way,
NO. The soul does not pre-exist. It is the Adjuster who pre-exists. The soul is born right here on earth with the first moral decision around age 5. Prior to that point in time and space, it does not exist. The soul is not lying around dormant somewhere waiting to be activated, as you suggest.
There is a subtle inference that the Thought Adjuster is a pattern of a sleeping survivor, who may have been absorbed into the Supreme Deity, and reworked as part of the Thought Adjuster, although not a soul but a pattern of a soul, where:
(63.5)5:1.7 Man is spiritually indwelt by a surviving Thought Adjuster. If such a human mind is sincerely and spiritually motivated, if such a human soul desires to know God and become like him, honestly wants to do the Father’s will, there exists no negative influence of mortal deprivation nor positive power of possible interference which can prevent such a divinely motivated soul from securely ascending to the portals of Paradise.
The birth of the soul, is the activation of the person’s first moral action, whereby the adjuster appears, but this action is significant in that the Thought Adjuster chooses the person, based on this action, something like a matching identifier pattern, which associates the two patterns as being compatible to a personality, where it is the personality which is being constructed. So in essence it is the birth of a personality, which consists of body, mind, spirit and soul.
(8.6)0:5.6 These qualities of universal reality are manifest in Urantian human experience on the following levels:
(8.7)0:5.7 1. Body. The material or physical organism of man. The living electrochemical mechanism of animal nature and origin.
(8.8)0:5.8 2. Mind. The thinking, perceiving, and feeling mechanism of the human organism. The total conscious and unconscious experience. The intelligence associated with the emotional life reaching upward through worship and wisdom to the spirit level.
(8.9)0:5.9 3. Spirit. The divine spirit that indwells the mind of man — the Thought Adjuster. This immortal spirit is prepersonal — not a personality, though destined to become a part of the personality of the surviving mortal creature.
(8.10)0:5.10 4. Soul. The soul of man is an experiential acquirement. As a mortal creature chooses to “do the will of the Father in heaven,” so the indwelling spirit becomes the father of a new reality in human experience. The mortal and material mind is the mother of this same emerging reality. The substance of this new reality is neither material nor spiritual — it is morontial. This is the emerging and immortal soul which is destined to survive mortal death and begin the Paradise ascension.
(9.1)0:5.11 Personality. The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul. Personality is the one changeless reality in an otherwise ever-changing creature experience; and it unifies all other associated factors of individuality. The personality is the unique bestowal which the Universal Father makes upon the living and associated energies of matter, mind, and spirit, and which survives with the survival of the morontial soul.
(9.2)0:5.12Morontia is a term designating a vast level intervening between the material and the spiritual. It may designate personal or impersonal realities, living or nonliving energies. The warp of morontia is spiritual; its woof is physical.
So, the soul is just a pattern piece, which is being reconstructed from the collection of eternal pattern pieces retained by the Supreme, an ingredient, like the breath of life, for the re-personalization of the sleeping survivor. Although the body may be different, thereby not being associated to reincarnation, but it is the personality, a unique person, being created, from previous personal patterns.
MidiChlorian wrote: There is a subtle inference that the Thought Adjuster is a pattern of a sleeping survivor, who may have been absorbed into the Supreme Deity, and reworked as part of the Thought Adjuster, although not a soul but a pattern of a soul . . .Midi, I’m not talking about dead people waiting to be resurrected on the mansion worlds. I’m talking about live people here on earth. But even so, what you’re saying is not supported anywhere within the revelation. Once a personality is absorbed into the Supreme, it no longer exists as a reality. And more importantly, NEVER again can it appear as a personality because its identity becomes as though it NEVER existed at all. (2:3.4) The use of the word NEVER means that the personality cannot be “reworked” as a part of anything.
The Thought Adjuster is not a pattern. The Thought Adjuster is an actual fragment of the pre-personality of the Father, a pre-Trinity endowment of the First Source and Center. (2:7.7; 5:2.4; 30:1.99; 32:4.5; 56:3.5; 107:0.3; 107:4.1; 112:5.2; 117:3.9) This means that the Adjuster pre-exists, NOT the soul. The Adjusters bring with them the plans for model careers and the ideal lives. They bring these plans with them, but they themselves are not the plans, or patterns, as you suggest.
MidiChlorian wrote: The birth of the soul, is the activation of the person’s first moral action . . .You have it completely backwards. The action of the first moral decision results in the birth of the soul. The soul is not activated or reactivated. It is not a machine. It is born as an entirely new, unique and original morontia reality.MidiChlorian wrote: So in essence it is the birth of a personality, which consists of body, mind, spirit and soul.The first moral decision of the personality marks entry into the 7th psychic circle. This results in universe RECOGNITION of the potential cosmic citizenship of the concerned personality. It marks the beginning of TRUE personality function because it has chosen an opportunity to do God’s will, and this is evidence that it has the capacity to attain SPIRITUAL individuality, sonship. The first moral decision, the choice to perfect oneself, makes the personality an OBSERVABLE, active and functional reality in the eyes of the universe. (5:6.6; 108:2.1; 110:6.1; 110:6.13; )
Personality does not consist of body, mind, spirit and soul. Personality is none of those things. Personality is the unifier of those aspects of selfhood because it has the ability to choose. (9:4.6; 56:10.15; 112:1.18; 112:1.19)0:5.11 The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul.On this issue, the UB could not be simpler, plainer, clearer, or more redundant from front to back:
1. The Mind Arena of Choice
(1216.2) 111:1.1 Though the work of Adjusters is spiritual in nature, they must, perforce, do all their work upon an intellectual foundation. Mind is the human soil from which the spirit Monitor must evolve the morontia soul with the co-operation of the indwelt personality.
(1216.3) 111:1.2 There is a cosmic unity in the several mind levels of the universe of universes. Intellectual selves have their origin in the cosmic mind much as nebulae take origin in the cosmic energies of universe space. On the human (hence personal) level of intellectual selves the potential of spirit evolution becomes dominant, with the assent of the mortal mind, because of the spiritual endowments of the human personality together with the creative presence of an entity-point of absolute value in such human selves. But such a spirit dominance of the material mind is conditioned upon two experiences: This mind must have evolved up through the ministry of the seven adjutant mind-spirits, and the material (personal) self must choose to co-operate with the indwelling Adjuster in creating and fostering the morontia self, the evolutionary and potentially immortal soul.
(1186.8) 108:2.1 Though the Adjusters volunteer for service as soon as the personality forecasts have been relayed to Divinington, they are not actually assigned until the human subjects make their first moral personality decision. The first moral choice of the human child is automatically indicated in the seventh mind-adjutant and registers instantly, by way of the local universe Creative Spirit, over the universal mind-gravity circuit of the Conjoint Actor in the presence of the Master Spirit of superuniverse jurisdiction, who forthwith dispatches this intelligence to Divinington. Adjusters reach their human subjects on Urantia, on the average, just prior to the sixth birthday. In the present generation it is running five years, ten months, and four days; that is, on the 2,134th day of terrestrial life.
(1187.1) 108:2.2 The Adjusters cannot invade the mortal mind until it has been duly prepared by the indwelling ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits and encircuited in the Holy Spirit. And it requires the co-ordinate function of all seven adjutants to thus qualify the human mind for the reception of an Adjuster. Creature mind must exhibit the worship outreach and indicate wisdom function by exhibiting the ability to choose between the emerging values of good and evil — moral choice.
(1187.2) 108:2.3 Thus is the stage of the human mind set for the reception of Adjusters, but as a general rule they do not immediately appear to indwell such minds except on those worlds where the Spirit of Truth is functioning as a spiritual co-ordinator of these different spirit ministries. If this spirit of the bestowal Sons is present, the Adjusters unfailingly come the instant the seventh adjutant mind-spirit begins to function and signalizes to the Universe Mother Spirit that it has achieved in potential the co-ordination of the associated six adjutants of prior ministry to such a mortal intellect. Therefore have the divine Adjusters been universally bestowed upon all normal minds of moral status on Urantia ever since the day of Pentecost.
(1187.3) 108:2.4 Even with a Spirit of Truth endowed mind, the Adjusters cannot arbitrarily invade the mortal intellect prior to the appearance of moral decision. But when such a moral decision has been made, this spirit helper assumes jurisdiction direct from Divinington. There are no intermediaries or other intervening authorities or powers functioning between the divine Adjusters and their human subjects; God and man are directly related.
Thanks Brad.
It’s been really bugging me the past few days that none of the so-called readers and proponents of this revelation are coming forward to argue against the pre-existence of the soul. What is wrong with people? Don’t they understand that the explanation and description of the soul and its purpose in the cosmos is one of the biggest revelations since the days that Jesus walked the earth? Where are all of you people? Hiding? From what?
It’s discouraging.
Bonita wrote:
[B]: “The soul is not activated or reactivated. It is not a machine. It is born as an entirely new, unique and original morontia reality.”
[B]: “The first moral decision, the choice to perfect oneself, makes the personality an OBSERVABLE, active and functional reality in the eyes of the universe.”
[B]: “Personality does not consist of body, mind, spirit and soul. Personality is none of those things. Personality is the unifier of those aspects of selfhood because it has the ability to choose.”
From the Foreword:
(0:5.11) The personality of mortal man is neither body, mind, nor spirit; neither is it the soul.
* * *
Bonita, thanks for insisting on this. To those engaged with traditional mystic notions, this idea of building from scratch something “new, unique and original” must seem unfamiliar, even surprising. Much easier to believe in black and white: a worm-like shell suffering illusion suddenly revealed as perfect pristine spirit. But we should note that in revealing the nature and purpose of the soul, the UB authors do redefine a traditional term (“soul”). For communication to occur, discussion of such things requires an extra mile or two, for sorting out such terms.
Regarding “making the personality an OBSERVABLE”, for those citizens of Paradise observing the nontime sequence of our personalization of an Adjuster fragment of the uncaused cause of their Paradise existence, such observations must cause a cheer every time this outlandish scheme succeeds (Yay!!)
PS: Regarding my alleged “re-naming of the adjutants”, was this a simple misreading on your part, or do you enjoy hacking at straw men of your own design
Nigel
Thanks Brad. It’s been really bugging me the past few days that none of the so-called readers and proponents of this revelation are coming forward to argue against the pre-existence of the soul. What is wrong with people? Don’t they understand that the explanation and description of the soul and its purpose in the cosmos is one of the biggest revelations since the days that Jesus walked the earth? Where are all of you people? Hiding? From what?
It’s discouraging.
Be not discouraged good sister. Consider the challenge as a “devil’s advocate” (a quaint phrase) or a recital of very common misconceptions that many students bring to the UB. Preexistence, as Nigel says, is a common belief, if primitive held by many. So, your pointed, patient, and persistent refutation of such falsehood can hardly be construed as anything other than an important lesson with much text offered to clarify such confusions and reduce such errors. The circular repetition of falsehood may be frustrating to the teacher (and fellow students) but it has provided so many different aspects for the text to illuminate the falsehoods presented by so many tangents of approach….none of which have gained any traction or made any progress. But I would reiterate the value and benefit of such discourse. You need not convince any to be correct nor helpful…especially for those students still to come to this fountain of knowledge and experience. Courage and patience Bonita. You shine!
PS: Regarding my alleged “re-naming of the adjutants”, was this a simple misreading on your part, or do you enjoy hacking at straw men of your own design
Regardless of what you meant, I don’t think the adjutants are the 7 psychosomatic interfaces, nor do I think that the human brain has 7 psychosomatic inherited interfaces with which they interact. It’s far too simplistic and the human nervous system, as we all know, is not that cut and dry. I think your idea is a neat and tidy way to make diagrams and possible connections to chakras, but I don’t think it’s reality. Just my opinion though, an opinion of my own design which I do enjoy hacking around with. (Said tongue-in-cheek).
But pray tell . . . do explain further what you meant by the 7 psychosomatic interfaces, because I have no idea what they are and I’ve been studying neuroanatomy for 39 years now. I don’t mean to sound like a smart-ass, but if these 7 psychosomatic interfaces are our “default, innate, inherited tendencies of response to adjutant motivation”, what are they talking about when they say that there are 24 basic orders of inherited psychic organization?
But we should note that in revealing the nature and purpose of the soul, the UB authors do redefine a traditional term (“soul”).
I’m not sure they do redefine it. They make it clear right at the beginning of Paper 111 that many ancient people actually got the idea of the soul correct. That being said . . . gnosticism has done a great deal to confuse people on this issue. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that this revelation appeared around the time of the resurfacing of gnostic texts once buried away in the sands of time.
Courage and patience Bonita. You shine!
Thanks Brad. BUT WHY AM I ALL ALONE IN THIS ENDEAVOR? (yes I’m shouting) Where are all the UB readers who know in their heart that pre-existence of the soul is nonsense? Don’t any of them have something to say on the subject? You know, I have other things to do too. Surely I’m not the only one who can type.
Thanks Brad. BUT WHY AM I ALL ALONE IN THIS ENDEAVOR? (yes I’m shouting) Where are all the UB readers who know in their heart that pre-existence of the soul is nonsense? Don’t any of them have something to say on the subject?
Well….can’t say for sure. I have been not silent but reluctant….your responses are so on point and clear and consistent that I did not want to muddy the waters of response or reduce clarity. And I haven’t had the time or patience personally to respond to each nuance of error presented. You have a sharp mind and wit and clearly understand the words written in the Revelation. I have truly enjoyed the “class” on pre-existence (and have answered many such claims on other forums…but not nearly so well!).
So….back to the Adjutants….once again. Detours and diversions enjoyed by me….but so much to learn that is more central to the topic at hand. Thanks all.
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