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Don’t think so George….non-survival is the jurisdiction of the Ancients, not survival…. I think….I’m researching!
Actually, if the Ancients of Days decide who does not survive, then they obviously decide who is and who is not resurrected – who does survive.
I thought the Ancients of Days were the executioners, and judgement is a multi person thing??
Obviously?? Illogical…let’s see the quotes.
And as you are the human parent, so is the Adjuster the divine parent of the real you, your higher and advancing self, your better morontial and future spiritual self. And it is this evolving morontial soul that the judges and censors discern when they decree your survival and pass you upward to new worlds and never-ending existence in eternal liaison with your faithful partner—God, the Adjuster. (108:6.6)
The technique of justice demands that personal or group guardians shall respond to the dispensational roll call in behalf of all nonsurviving personalities. The Adjusters of such nonsurvivors do not return, and when the rolls are called, the seraphim respond, but the Adjusters make no answer. This constitutes the “resurrection of the unjust,” in reality the formal recognition of the cessation of creature existence. This roll call of justice always immediately follows the roll call of mercy, the resurrection of the sleeping survivors. But these are matters which are of concern to none but the supreme and all-knowing Judges of survival values. Such problems of adjudication do not really concern us. (113:6.8)
Survival is decreed by the supreme and all-knowing Judges of survival values. The unjust are not resurrected and cease to exist.
Not to quibble…but for the sake of accuracy….I believe it is the TA’s that determine mortal survival and the Circle Status to also determine the length of slumber prior to reawakening. And it is reflectivity that absolutely represents the mind of all creatures to Havona and the Ancients. Mortals are first measured by the TA and our soul content. Only annihilation and self erasure are in the hands of the Ancients…but hey I could be wrong…happens all the time!! = )
This also involves the Universal Censors. The Universal Censors reflect their judgment to the Ancients of Days who issue the appropriate decree.
(217.7) 19:4.1 There are exactly eight billion Universal Censors in existence. These unique beings are the judgment of Deity. They are not merely reflective of the decisions of perfection; they are the judgment of the Paradise Trinity. Even the Ancients of Days do not sit in judgment except in association with the Universal Censors.
(218.3) 19:4.5 The Censors are universe totaling personalities. When a thousand witnesses have given testimony — or a million — when the voice of wisdom has spoken and the counsel of divinity has recorded, when the testimony of ascendant perfection has been added, then the Censor functions, and there is immediately revealed an unerring and divine totaling of all that has transpired; and such a disclosure represents the divine conclusion, the sum and substance of a final and perfect decision. Therefore, when a Censor has spoken, no one else may speak, for the Censor has depicted the true and unmistakable total of all that has gone before. When he speaks, there is no appeal.
112:4.2 In some way not fully understood, the Universal Censors are able to gain possession of an epitome of the human life as it is embodied in the Adjuster’s duplicate transcription of the spiritual values and morontia meanings of the indwelt mind. The Censors are able to appropriate the Adjuster’s version of the deceased human’s survival character and spiritual qualities, and all this data, together with the seraphic records, is available for presentation at the time of the adjudication of the individual concerned. This information is also used to confirm those superuniverse mandates which make it possible for certain ascenders immediately to begin their morontia careers, upon mortal dissolution to proceed to the mansion worlds ahead of the formal termination of a planetary dispensation.
108:6.6 And as you are the human parent, so is the Adjuster the divine parent of the real you, your higher and advancing self, your better morontial and future spiritual self. And it is this evolving morontial soul that the judges and censors discern when they decree your survival and pass you upward to new worlds and never-ending existence in eternal liaison with your faithful partner—God, the Adjuster.
Not all judges are Ancients of Days. Judges include the seraphim and the Adjuster, as well as the Universal Censors.
113:6.8 The technique of justice demands that personal or group guardians shall respond to the dispensational roll call in behalf of all nonsurviving personalities. The Adjusters of such nonsurvivors do not return, and when the rolls are called, the seraphim respond, but the Adjusters make no answer. This constitutes the “resurrection of the unjust,” in reality the formal recognition of the cessation of creature existence. This roll call of justice always immediately follows the roll call of mercy, the resurrection of the sleeping survivors. But these are matters which are of concern to none but the supreme and all-knowing Judges of survival values. Such problems of adjudication do not really concern us.
This quote is about non-survivors. It is NOT about survivors. The roll call of justice is for NON- survivors. Survivors are not part of this roll call, they are part of the roll call of mercy. Those who have NO mercy credits left are in the roll call of justice.
21:5.4 The elevation of a sevenfold bestowal Son to the unquestioned sovereignty of his universe means the beginning of the end of agelong uncertainty and relative confusion. Subsequent to this event, that which cannot be sometime spiritualized will eventually be disorganized; that which cannot be sometime co-ordinated with cosmic reality will eventually be destroyed. When the provisions of endless mercy and nameless patience have been exhausted in an effort to win the loyalty and devotion of the will creatures of the realms, justice and righteousness will prevail. That which mercy cannot rehabilitate justice will eventually annihilate.
For the non-survivor the judges and censors confirm that there are no more mercy credits available for creature rehabilitation. They are no longer available because they have all been spent. A bankrupt soul. The Universal Censors discern and reveal the ” . . . unerring and divine totaling of all that has transpired” (19:4.5). Their decision is final, ” . . .there is no appeal.”(19:4.5) And this decision is reflected to the Ancients of Days for finalization.
Not all judges are Ancients of Days.
While this is true, of course, we are directly told that only the Ancients of Days make final judgments on personality extinction.
In all the vast universe of universes they alone are invested with the high powers of final executive judgment concerning the eternal extinction of will creatures. (18:3.7)
The “resurrection of the unjust” is the formal recognition of the permanent cessation of creature existence. The resurrection of the sleeping survivors occurs before this. Who do you suppose decides whether a soul will be part of the first or second roll call? It can only be the Ancients of Days, since only they have the power and divine authority to separate those who will be resurrected from those who will not.
At least this must be the case, if we believe the Divine Counselor speaks truly in paper 18.
(37.1) 2:3.3 Cessation of existence is usually decreed at the dispensational or epochal adjudication of the realm or realms. On a world such as Urantia it comes at the end of a planetary dispensation. Cessation of existence can be decreed at such times by co-ordinate action of all tribunals of jurisdiction, extending from the planetary council up through the courts of the Creator Son to the judgment tribunals of the Ancients of Days. The mandate of dissolution originates in the higher courts of the superuniverse following an unbroken confirmation of the indictment originating on the sphere of the wrongdoer’s residence; and then, when sentence of extinction has been confirmed on high, the execution is by the direct act of those judges residential on, and operating from, the headquarters of the superuniverse.
Cessation of existence requires multiple courts and councils. There must be an unbroken confirmation beginning at the planetary level, the local universe level and then to the Ancients of Days where it is confirmed.
Cessation of existence requires multiple courts and councils. There must be an unbroken confirmation beginning at the planetary level, the local universe level and then to the Ancients of Days where it is confirmed.
Exactly. The Ancients of Days make the final judgment; no one else.
Ancients of Days make final confirmation of judgments made by others. It’s simply the end of the line. In fact, Ancients of Days depend upon the judgment of Universal Censors.
19:4.1 Even the Ancients of Days do not sit in judgment except in association with the Universal Censors.
Ancients of Days make final confirmation of judgments made by others.
You attempt to make a distinction which shifts the responsibility for final judgment from the courts of the Ancients of Days to lower courts. But the supreme rulers of Orvonton do not delegate this very great responsibility to others. They and they alone make the final judgments in these matters. To do otherwise would be less than divine.
In all the vast universe of universes they alone are invested with the high powers of final executive judgment concerning the eternal extinction of will creatures. (18:3.7)
The divine conclusion comes from the Universal Censor whose decision is final and perfect. Ancients of Days are the final confirmation of those decisions, they formally declare the judgment as a fact.
(218.3) 19:4.5 The Censors are universe totaling personalities. When a thousand witnesses have given testimony — or a million — when the voice of wisdom has spoken and the counsel of divinity has recorded, when the testimony of ascendant perfection has been added, then the Censor functions, and there is immediately revealed an unerring and divine totaling of all that has transpired; and such a disclosure represents the divine conclusion, the sum and substance of a final and perfect decision. Therefore, when a Censor has spoken, no one else may speak, for the Censor has depicted the true and unmistakable total of all that has gone before. When he speaks, there is no appeal.
“In all the vast universe of universes they alone are invested with the high powers of final executive judgment concerning the eternal extinction of will creatures. ” (18:3.7)
Yes. The Ancients of Days are the high powers of final executive judgment.
2:3.3 . . . and then, when sentence of extinction has been confirmed on high, the execution is by the direct act of those judges residential on, and operating from, the headquarters of the superuniverse.
15:12.2 The Sons of the local universes can decree the survival of mortal man, but only the Ancients of Days may sit in executive judgment on the issues of eternal life and death.
18:3.7 In power, scope of authority, and extent of jurisdiction the Ancients of Days are the most powerful and mighty of any of the direct rulers of the time-space creations. In all the vast universe of universes they alone are invested with the high powers of final executive judgmentconcerning the eternal extinction of will creatures. And all three Ancients of Days must participate in the final decrees of the supreme tribunal of a superuniverse.
But, the Ancients of Days do not sit in jugement except in association with the Universal Censors.
19:4.1 There are exactly eight billion Universal Censors in existence. These unique beings are the judgment of Deity. They are not merely reflective of the decisions of perfection; they are the judgment of the Paradise Trinity. Even the Ancients of Days do not sit in judgment except in association with the Universal Censors.
19:4.4 Whenever and wherever a Universal Censor is present, then and there is the judgment of Deity. And since the Censors always render their verdicts in liaison with Perfectors of Wisdom and Divine Counselors, such decisions embrace the united wisdom, counsel, and judgment of the Paradise Trinity. In this juridical trio the Perfector of Wisdom would be the “I was,” the Divine Counselor the “I will be,” but the Universal Censor is always “I am.”
It says, “. . . they [Universal Censors] are an organic part of all dispensational adjudications of the evolutionary worlds.” (19:4.3 ) which may in part pertain to the adjudication of individuals upon mortal dissolution. As I see it there are only three possibilities upon death: head for mansonia; sleep until the next dispensation; extinction.
112:4.2 [Part III]In some way not fully understood, the Universal Censors are able to gain possession of an epitome of the human life as it is embodied in the Adjuster’s duplicate transcription of the spiritual values and morontia meanings of the indwelt mind. The Censors are able to appropriate the Adjuster’s version of the deceased human’s survival character and spiritual qualities, and all this data, together with the seraphic records, is available for presentation at the time of the adjudication of the individual concerned. This information is also used to confirm those superuniverse mandates which make it possible for certain ascenders immediately to begin their morontia careers, upon mortal dissolution to proceed to the mansion worlds ahead of the formal termination of a planetary dispensation.Has anyone done the numbers? We do know 55 million Urantians die every year. We know there are 619 planets in the system. Assuming Urantia is average (probably not), that’s 34 billion.
But let’s low-ball it and say the average is 5.5 million deaths per planet, times 619 equals 3.4 billion per year, system-wide. That 187 million number is about 1/15th of 3 billion. So, do one in 15 survive? Maybe, but there are factors we can’t know, like: Was there a recent graduation from Jerusem when the 187 million count was done? Let’s say there was, and the class that graduated had 10 times that 187 million. That would total 1.87 billion. But how often does a class graduate? Once every system year (seems much too fast)? Assuming that does happen every year (which is about as long as Urantia’s year), that would mean about one in two survive….So much we don’t know.
Richard E Warren
But, the Ancients of Days do not sit in judgment except in association with the Universal Censors.
I agree and never disputed this. What I took issue with was Bonita’s curiously insistent assertion that the censors actually make the final judgment about personality extinction and the Ancients of Days only confirm it, as though they do nothing more than just put an official stamp on something decided by someone else. Concerning survival or non-survival, the Universal Censors present and interpret essential evidence in the courts of the Ancients of Days, who make the final decision.
The evidence for or against an individual, a planet, system, constellation, or universe is presented and interpreted by the Censors. (15:12.1)
The Censors do make final judgments in other areas and on other matters. But, as you cite above, when the matter under deliberation is personality extinction, it must be adjudicated in the supreme tribunal of a superuniverse:
In all the vast universe of universes they alone are invested with the high powers of final executive judgment concerning the eternal extinction of will creatures. And all three Ancients of Days must participate in the final decrees of the supreme tribunal of a superuniverse. (18:3.7)
You reference how “those superuniverse mandates (i.e. those which come from the courts of the Ancients of Days) which make it possible for certain ascenders to immediately begin their morontia careers” rely upon the Censors’ appropriation of “the Adjuster’s version of the human’s survival character and spiritual qualities, and all this data, together with the seraphic records” is evidence in the adjudication of the individual. A similar procedure is followed before a final judgment of personality extinction is mandated by the Ancients of Days, who consider evidence given by the Adjuster, the Seraphim, and the Censor and their reflective associates.
Spiritual (soul) death. If and when mortal man has finally rejected survival, when he has been pronounced spiritually insolvent, morontially bankrupt, in the conjoint opinion of the Adjuster and the surviving seraphim, when such co-ordinate advice has been recorded on Uversa, and after the Censors and their reflective associates have verified these findings, thereupon do the rulers of Orvonton order the immediate release of the indwelling Monitor. (112:3.2)
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