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Mara, I really appreciate your input. Thank you. At this point, I am no longer discussing this topic and disengaging participation from this forum. There is an element of negativity that has persisted a while now on the forum and, frankly, I have grown tired of it. I am moving on. People’s opinions should be respected but I guess there is always that one bully in the crowd. This is the internet and I expect that. It is what it is.
It was nice knowing everyone. Hopefully our lives will cross path again. I enjoyed my stay here. Take care to all.
BB
I already miss your interesting questions, BB, and you will be missed too.
Come back any time. God bless and keep you!
One of the many things I like about our various forums around the web is the opportunity they offer for developing, and then trying to exercise, tact and tolerance. This is not to say I tolerate fools, nor struggle with the insincere. But sincere questions, even if they somehow offend me, are a welcome challenge.
(1740.5, 156:5.18) “Tact is the fulcrum of social leverage, and tolerance is the earmark of a great soul. If you possess these rare and charming gifts, …”
(1774.1, 160:1.9) “You simply must have tact and tolerance.”
(1778.2, 160:3.4) “but I doubt not that the Master, with a more mature type of personality, would easily and gracefully gain an equal victory by his superior and winsome technique of tact and tolerance.”
Nigel
But sincere questions, even if they somehow offend me, are a welcome challenge.
So where is your answer to the question Nigel? What is your response concerning the manipulation of the human will by celestial “forces”? We’re all anxious to hear!
I just got an email from Moderator 2 accusing me of making personally offensive remarks towards BB. Let it be known that my so-called offensive remarks were not made towards BB at all. My comments were made towards a question, an idea . . . a bad one at that! I never referenced BB at any time and am sorry if he thinks that I did. I’ve been very careful to avoid getting into any conversation with or about BB for months now since his last blow-up aimed at me. Also, there’s no need for BB to leave the forum because I am leaving it. I’m done.
No idea or question would be possible were there not a person to conceive it.
P.1765 – §4 Always respect the personality of man. Never should a righteous cause be promoted by force; spiritual victories can be won only by spiritual power. This injunction against the employment of material influences refers to psychic force as well as to physical force. Overpowering arguments and mental superiority are not to be employed to coerce men and women into the kingdom. Man’s mind is not to be crushed by the mere weight of logic or overawed by shrewd eloquence. While emotion as a factor in human decisions cannot be wholly eliminated, it should not be directly appealed to in the teachings of those who would advance the cause of the kingdom. Make your appeals directly to the divine spirit that dwells within the minds of men. Do not appeal to fear, pity, or mere sentiment. In appealing to men, be fair; exercise self-control and exhibit due restraint; show proper respect for the personalities of your pupils. Remember that I have said: “Behold, I stand at the door and knock, and if any man will open, I will come in.”
Here is a cautionary reference for our mutual edification. Said Jesus:
P.1898 – §5 “Your inability or unwillingness to forgive your fellows is the measure of your immaturity, your failure to attain adult sympathy, understanding, and love. You hold grudges and nurse vengefulness in direct proportion to your ignorance of the inner nature and true longings of your children and your fellow beings. Love is the outworking of the divine and inner urge of life. It is founded on understanding, nurtured by unselfish service, and perfected in wisdom.”
And I am also reminded of that reference pertaining to failure in that failure is nothing more than an educational experience. And I want to tell you what I do when I have failed at something. I know when I have failed to live up to the high standard I set for myself. Once I recognize it, I look at the clock on the wall, because I want to find out how much actual time it takes for me to regain my balance, morally and spiritually speaking. The longer it takes, the worse it is in terms of personal strain and inner suffering. For me it boils down to forgiving myself for failing. Simply said, such failures are educational to the extent that one gains insight into yourself and sympathetic understanding of your fellows. More insight and understanding is a good thing.
One of my favorite pages in the book is page 1,739. I have it all marked up in crayon. I used crayon because the paper in my book is so thin and I didn’t want to use a product that would bleed to the other side of the paper. Anyhow, I’d like to share this with you as well.
P.1739 – §6 You are destined to live a narrow and mean life if you learn to love only those who love you. Human love may indeed be reciprocal, but divine love is outgoing in all its satisfaction-seeking. The less of love in any creature’s nature, the greater the love need, and the more does divine love seek to satisfy such need. Love is never self-seeking, and it cannot be self-bestowed. Divine love cannot be self-contained; it must be unselfishly bestowed.
From time to time, it becomes necessary for the moderators to remind all participants on the forum about the critical importance of using tact, tolerance and kindly forbearance when posting their comments. The following rule needs to be closely observed:
- Be kind, fair, respectful and courteous at all times without personal attacks or foul language.
All of us at times find this challenging; this is particularly true when we encounter views that trigger within us a strong negative reaction. We may be tempted to attack the person expressing these views or to speak in disparaging terms about the views themselves. As people who have such a high regard for the supernal values and spiritual principles embodied in this Fifth Epochal Revelation, it behooves us to conduct ourselves in harmony with these high levels of human living. Here are a few examples:
You can best discover values in your associates by discovering their motivation. If some one irritates you, causes feelings of resentment, you should sympathetically seek to discern his viewpoint, his reasons for such objectionable conduct. If once you understand your neighbor, you will become tolerant, and this tolerance will grow into friendship and ripen into love. P.1098:1
Self is man’s invincible foe, and self is manifested as man’s four greatest passions: anger, pride, deceit, and greed. Man’s greatest victory is the conquest of himself. When man looks to God for forgiveness, and when he makes bold to enjoy such liberty, he is thereby delivered from fear. Man should journey through life treating his fellow creatures as he would like to be treated. P.1451:0
These twenty-four men had a truly remarkable experience these two weeks when they were compelled to face problems and compose difficulties without Jesus. They learned to differ, to debate, to contend, to pray, and to compromise, and throughout it all to remain sympathetic with the other person’s viewpoint and to maintain at least some degree of tolerance for his honest opinions. P.1625:8
May we all continue to strive to imitate the attitude of our Master and friend, of whom it was said: “While he does not hesitate to reprove us, it is plain to all that he truly loves us. The better you know him, the more you will love him. You will be charmed by his unswerving devotion. Through all these years of our failure to comprehend his mission, he has been a faithful friend. While he makes no use of flattery, he does treat us all with equal kindness; he is invariably tender and compassionate.” P.1785:3
Peace and Love to you all!
Bonita asked:
So where is your answer to the question Nigel?
What is your response concerning the manipulation of the human will by celestial “forces”?Recall that BB’s question was: “What kind of influence (if any) …”
Think of the many rough edges, where this revelation is meeting evolution. It’s in such places that such questions burn. I see our beloved BB as part of the Supreme’s personal interface into these fascinating fringes, helping to leak and sneak truth into the circus that plays out there.
In such places, it’s tact and tolerance that allow truth to transfer. Forums like this allow us to exercise such skills, even to practice the unnatural art of being friendly.
And Ok, while I did say such questions are a welcome challenge, need this mean I have answers?
Nigel
Hi Everyone,
Angels are sychronised beautifully with your Thought Adjuster and are active in initiating the impulse to prayer.
The impulse of worship largely originates in the spirit promptings of the higher mind adjutants, reinforced by the leadings of the Adjuster. But the urge to pray so often experienced by God-conscious mortals very often arises as the result of seraphic influence. The guarding seraphim is constantly manipulating the mortal environment for the purpose of augmenting the cosmic insight of the human ascender to the end that such a survival candidate may acquire enhanced realization of the presence of the indwelling Adjuster and thus be enabled to yield increased co-operation with the spiritual mission of the divine presence. [Paper 113:4.4, page 1245.4]
On resurrection day we’ll meet our serapic guardians who have loved us during our life time.
It is indeed an epoch in the career of an ascending mortal, this first awakening on the shores of the mansion world; there, for the first time, actually to see your long-loved and ever-present angelic companions of earth days; there also to become truly conscious of the identity and presence of the divine Monitor who so long indwelt your mind on earth. Such an experience constitutes a glorious awakening, a real resurrection. [Paper113:7.1, page 1248.1]
Brooklyn_born wrote:. . .what does TUB say regarding freedom of choice? Is there a backdoor to our being that allows angels to circumvent our decision making authority?I’ve been pondering your question BB. I don’t expect an answer from you, but I thought of one possibility – one motivation – for your inquiry. I wonder if you ask, because of a predominant Christian belief that if you do not profess your belief in Jesus, then the devil has got you. People are concerned about this and they are worried about family, friends, and governments too. Hopefully, the UB will de-confuse folks someday.66:8:6 The doctrine of a personal devil on Urantia, though it had some foundation in the planetary presence of the traitorous and iniquitous Caligastia, was nevertheless wholly fictitious in its teachings that such a “devil” could influence the normal human mind against its free and natural choosing. Even before Michael’s bestowal on Urantia, neither Caligastia nor Daligastia was ever able to oppress mortals or to coerce any normal individual into doing anything against the human will. The free will of man is supreme in moral affairs; even the indwelling Thought Adjuster refuses to compel man to think a single thought or to perform a single act against the choosing of man’s own will.
Hello friends,
There is a distinct group of Planetary Helper Seraphim who work within the scheme of Seraphic Planetary Government, The Souls of Peace are one such group, who labour with us to supplant the atonement idea with the concept of divine attunement. Thereby free us from the erroneous thinking that has hampered the acceptance of the invitation to be perfect as our Father is perfect. The notion that mankind is somehow in a fallen situation is erroneous. We are delayed perhaps, but not fallen.
3. The Souls of Peace. The early millenniums of the upward strivings of evolutionary men are marked by many a struggle. Peace is not the natural state of the material realms. The worlds first realize “peace on earth and good will among men” through the ministry of the seraphic souls of peace. Although these angels were largely thwarted in their early efforts on Urantia, Vevona, chief of the souls of peace in Adam’s day, was left on Urantia and is now attached to the staff of the resident governor general. And it was this same Vevona who, when Michael was born, heralded to the worlds, as the leader of the angelic host, “Glory to God in Havona and on earth peace and good will among men.” [Paper 39:5.5, page 437.4]
In the more advanced epochs of planetary evolution these seraphim are instrumental in supplanting the atonement idea by the concept of divine attunement as a philosophy of mortal survival. [Paper 39:5.6, page 437.5]
Mara wrote:. . .belief that if you do not profess your belief in Jesus, then the devil has got youIn reference to my previous comments about using the so-called devil as an influence and excuse not to take responsibility for human tendencies, I’d like to draw your attention to this paragraph.P.1609 – §6 “Many times, when you have done evil, you have thought to charge up your acts to the influence of the evil one when in reality you have but been led astray by your own natural tendencies. Did not the Prophet Jeremiah long ago tell you that the human heart is deceitful above all things and sometimes even desperately wicked? How easy for you to become self-deceived and thereby fall into foolish fears, divers lusts, enslaving pleasures, malice, envy, and even vengeful hatred!
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