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chucksmith1982 wrote: Religions are not willing to say that we all worship the same god…Hi chuck, this is a sad situation where intelligent men and women are allowing themselves to be betrayed into sacrificing the exciting adventure of finding God for themselves by acquiescence to being held by the straight-jacket of fear-based primitive anthropomorphic deity concepts.It is well to heed the lessons to be gained in reviewing the religions of tradition. Until childlike superstitions can be overcome with reason, large numbers of men and women will continue to show a personal preference for those religions of authority which require only intellectual assent.
Until the races become highly intelligent and more fully civilized, there will persist many of those childlike and superstitious ceremonies which are so characteristic of the evolutionary religious practices of primitive and backward peoples. Until the human race progresses to the level of a higher and more general recognition of the realities of spiritual experience, large numbers of men and women will continue to show a personal preference for those religions of authority which require only intellectual assent, in contrast to the religion of the spirit, which entails active participation of mind and soul in the faith adventure of grappling with the rigorous realities of progressive human experience. [Paper155:5.8, page 1729:3]
Traditional religions of authority are a refuge which require minimal reflective thought to gain spiritual succor.
The acceptance of the traditional religions of authority presents the easy way out for man’s urge to seek satisfaction for the longings of his spiritual nature. The settled, crystallized, and established religions of authority afford a ready refuge to which the distracted and distraught soul of man may flee when harassed by fear and tormented by uncertainty. Such a religion requires of its devotees, as the price to be paid for its satisfactions and assurances, only a passive and purely intellectual assent. [Paper155:5.9, page 1729:4]
Because there are so many types of people in the world and many eligions, there will for some time to come still, live on earth those timid, fearful, and hesitant individuals who will prefer thus to secure their religious consolations.
And for a long time there will live on earth those timid, fearful, and hesitant individuals who will prefer thus to secure their religious consolations, even though, in so casting their lot with the religions of authority, they compromise the sovereignty of personality, debase the dignity of self-respect, and utterly surrender the right to participate in that most thrilling and inspiring of all possible human experiences: the personal quest for truth, the exhilaration of facing the perils of intellectual discovery, the determination to explore the realities of personal religious experience, the supreme satisfaction of experiencing the personal triumph of the actual realization of the victory of spiritual faith over intellectual doubt as it is honestly won in the supreme adventure of all human existence — man seeking God, for himself and as himself, and finding him. [Paper155:5.10, page 1729:5]
The religion of the mind requires little spiritual exertion, religion of the spirit requires intelligent effort, struggle, love, loyalty and progress.
The religion of the spirit means effort, struggle, conflict, faith, determination, love, loyalty, and progress. The religion of the mind — the theology of authority — requires little or none of these exertions from its formal believers. Tradition is a safe refuge and an easy path for those fearful and halfhearted souls who instinctively shun the spirit struggles and mental uncertainties associated with those faith voyages of daring adventure out upon the high seas of unexplored truth in search for the farther shores of spiritual realities as they may be discovered by the progressive human mind and experienced by the evolving human soul. [Paper155:5.11, page 1729:6]
The religion of Jesus is a religion of dynamic love which yields fruits of the spirit. Requires courage to go where truth leads.
And Jesus went on to say: “At Jerusalem the religious leaders have formulated the various doctrines of their traditional teachers and the prophets of other days into an established system of intellectual beliefs, a religion of authority. The appeal of all such religions is largely to the mind. And now are we about to enter upon a deadly conflict with such a religion since we will so shortly begin the bold proclamation of a new religion — a religion which is not a religion in the present-day meaning of that word, a religion that makes its chief appeal to the divine spirit of my Father which resides in the mind of man; a religion which shall derive its authority from the fruits of its acceptance that will so certainly appear in the personal experience of all who really and truly become believers in the truths of this higher spiritual communion.” [Paper 155:5.12, page 1729:7]
The challenge of the ages is to stir Christianity out of its torpor into the invigorating energy of spiritual adventure.
If the Christian church would only dare to espouse the Master’s program, thousands of apparently indifferent youths would rush forward to enlist in such a spiritual undertaking, and they would not hesitate to go all the way through with this great adventure. [Paper 195:10.10, page 2085:2]
I would admonish all participants on this thread to refrain from any further personal attacks and to focus on the subject of the thread. If you believe you have been unjustly treated by a fellow participant do not engage in a public conflict. You can inform the moderators by leaving a message on the Support and Suggestions forum. Persistent offenders should be ignored and left to the moderators to deal with.
I did leave a message on that “Support and Suggestion” forum which never posted while 4 posts got on there – IN PUBLIC – continuing the call for banishment and god-knows-what-else if they had their retrogressive inquisition-style ways.. Lest there be yet another opportunity to have people point out a lack of patience – is it reasonable to suggest that a week is enough time for “moderators” to get back to ME?
Hi Midi, the spiritual quest is a personal experience only constrained by the depth of individual commitment—freewill choosing. “When you once begin to find God in your soul, presently you will begin to discover him in other men’s souls and eventually in all the creatures and creations of a mighty universe” discovery based upon having the desire to contemplate such eternal realities in the first place.
Granted Vern “the desire to contemplate such eternal realities” is “a personal experience” but as the following UB narration indicates which follows your usage quoted by location, indicates a passive warning.
(1733.2) 155:6.14 But do not make the mistake of trying to prove to other men that you have found God; you cannot consciously produce such valid proof, albeit there are two positive and powerful demonstrations of the fact that you are God-knowing, and they are:
(1733.3) 155:6.15 1. The fruits of the spirit of God showing forth in your daily routine life.
(1733.4) 155:6.16 2. The fact that your entire life plan furnishes positive proof that you have unreservedly risked everything you are and have on the adventure of survival after death in the pursuit of the hope of finding the God of eternity, whose presence you have foretasted in time.
(1733.5) 155:6.17 Now, mistake not, my Father will ever respond to the faintest flicker of faith. He takes note of the physical and superstitious emotions of the primitive man. And with those honest but fearful souls whose faith is so weak that it amounts to little more than an intellectual conformity to a passive attitude of assent to religions of authority, the Father is ever alert to honor and foster even all such feeble attempts to reach out for him. But you who have been called out of darkness into the light are expected to believe with a whole heart; your faith shall dominate the combined attitudes of body, mind, and spirit.
Where in an attempt “to prove to others that you have found” some evidence from within, which reflects an outward display, but only registers within the individuals own mind, from one’s everyday life of routines, interaction with and through many external realities, where those other’s would not realize similar findings when one attempts to present their personal proof’s, unless there is a measure of trust and faith mutually understood. There are however, many ways to illustrate these inner confirmations to others when one assumes that in the future many things will become more probable and feasible. Therefore, ones religious experience may be mutually understood, with a measure of common fruits of acquired faith.
Torpor and lack of courage. Huh.
Fruits of courage and power in USA? So merciless, it is cosmic insanity.
What’s the “suggestion” for going up against that kind of top down leadership?
I’m not over the whole bashing I just got here and carried over into the “Support and Suggestion” thread….after that bit of hooliganism, how can you possible blame “christians” for torpor and lack of courage when even quoting from TUB about religion as a mind endowment incited cries of “delete delete delete”…
MidiChlorian wrote: …cannot consciously produce such valid proof…Hahahah so true Midi, and it would be foolish to try. The religion of Jesus is selfless service and by selflessness it is known.No proof necessary from a sincere soul who craves no recognition as validation of their wholehearted dedication to doing the Father’s will.I remember the story I heard as a boy, from the Bible of the poor woman who gave a penny to the church, it was all she had, the priest looking on, sneered at such a small contribution and made a great show of the money he gave. Though many times more in amount than the poor woman’s penny, it was a very miserly offering compared to the great wealth this self-satisfied priest in fact, had. She gave everything, while he gave hardly anything and then made boastful self-congratulatory noises to belittle the poor woman and puff himself up at her expense.Empty vessels tend to make a lot of noise.Sabinatu wrote: What’s the “suggestion” for going up against that kind of top down leadership?Use the vote wisely, choose. Choose the better option based on values rather than lifestyle.There has been a failure by previous elected governments in maintaining high moral standards of civilization, past mistakes can be corrected. Adjusting to failure is the way humans learn.Have you considered why the Divine Indweller is called the Adjuster?“The Bush White House disgraced itself by authorizing torture and failing to comply with constitutional limits and Congress disgraced itself by allowing it. But, as Jameel Jaffer of the ACLU says, “the signal failure at this point is the failure of courts to enforce those limits.”
“In swatting away the appeals of torture victims with serial denials of review, the Roberts Court abdicated it crucial oversight role envisioned by the Constitution, further harmed America’s reputation around the world and shut off one of the last remaining avenues for accountability.”
The reign of law is fundamental to representative government. The law must be administered impartially and with accountability to the people served.
The reign of law. Liberty can be enjoyed only when the will and whims of human rulers are replaced by legislative enactments in accordance with accepted fundamental law. [Paper 71:2.12, page 802:6)
They grew up surrounded and steeped in political correctness and “psychology”, so I guess they are qualified to know very well that those social controls did not reveal who they REALLY are and how they want to live. So they are taking personal control of “religion”:
Spiritual equality, even though they might not use that language, is a “no-brainer” among “the next generation”.
The “chucks” are out there in positions to “delete delete delete” – otherwise would our “chuck” have had the “courage” to assume his will would be done here?
Use the vote wisely, choose. Choose the better option based on values rather than lifestyle. There has been a failure by previous elected governments in maintaining high moral standards of civilization, past mistakes can be corrected. Adjusting to failure is the way humans learn. Have you considered why the Divine Indweller is called the Adjuster?
What you say Vern is partially true in that it could also be applied to the Churches of Christianity because they, for the most part (not all) are either self appointed administrators or governance of their organizations and we the people are not always able to select those to whom we choose to lead these churches and definitely the governance of choosing those in political hierarchy. We are given choices to elect via voting from a given group who either feel themselves qualified or justified by a party profile or experience which has little to do with the ability to perform the needs for the government by the people, which often is sanctioned only by popular electability. We are not given the opportunity to cast a “NO” vote, to emphasize that we may not want any of those selected for service, therefore having only the ability to choose the lesser of two or a few evils. Within the party system and the election process, it has become a mandate to not state what one person or group will do, and has become more so that we certainly would not do what our opponent would do, with an emphasis on doing nothing. Just more of the same governance or lifeless theology.
(802.13) 71:2.19 10. Intelligent and trained representation. The survival of democracy is dependent on successful representative government; and that is conditioned upon the practice of electing to public offices only those individuals who are technically trained, intellectually competent, socially loyal, and morally fit. Only by such provisions can government of the people, by the people, and for the people be preserved.
(802.12) 71:2.18 9. Control of public servants. No civil government will be serviceable and effective unless the citizenry possess and use wise techniques of guiding and controlling officeholders and public servants.
(802.11) 71:2.17 8. Universal suffrage. Representative government presupposes an intelligent, efficient, and universal electorate. The character of such a government will ever be determined by the character and caliber of those who compose it. As civilization progresses, suffrage, while remaining universal for both sexes, will be effectively modified, regrouped, and otherwise differentiated.
(802.10) 71:2.16 7. The right to rule. It is not enough to be heard; the power of petition must progress to the actual management of the government.
(802.9) 71:2.15 6. The right of petition. Representative government assumes the right of citizens to be heard. The privilege of petition is inherent in free citizenship.
Sabinatu wrote: Spiritual equality, even though they might not use that language, is a “no-brainer” among “the next generation”.Interesting Huffington article Sab, the next generation is not encumbered with the same baggage of fixated dogma and ritual that typifies unappealing current Christianity. Young people crave to relate to a courageous man of faith, the real Jesus.“Millennials are not interested in a celestial Jesus with a permanent smile and open arms, unconcerned with the goings-on of planet Earth. We’ve heard about that Jesus our entire lives, and we’re not buying it.”
“Do you know what we would buy? Jesus the man, Jesus the prophet, the Jesus that fashioned a whip of cords and overturned the tables of the money changers for making God’s house a den of robbers. The Jesus that challenged the establishment and paid the ultimate price. The Jesus that took up the cross of the poor, the weak, and the marginalized in the name of God.”
“I spent an hour and a half at church one week and the name “Jesus” was not mentioned a single time. That is what ultimately made me decide to give up.”
“I’m all for love and a personal relationship with God, but I choose to follow the man who teaches that political action is worship, that social justice is love.”
“What I and people my age are looking for is a church that preaches not just transcendental love, but that prophetic fire that makes Jesus so appealing.”
“A church that stressed this aspect of the faith would be dangerous, to be sure. It would be time-consuming and divisive. It might not even work as a long-lasting denomination. But the inconvenient truth is that if you really want millennials back in the pews, you’ve got to light the church on fire.”
Sab, thank you for sharing this sincere plea from a young person yearning for spiritual progress in Christianity.
We now have the definitive answer to the question this topic raises
It all comes down to proclaiming the religion “of” Jesus instead of the religion “about” Jesus.
I just did a quick search on those terms “religion of Jesus” and “religion about Jesus” and came up with the following six paragraphs which will highlight how vital it is that this change comes about.
1
As the original teachings of Jesus penetrated the Occident, they became Occidentalized, and as they became Occidentalized, they began to lose their potentially universal appeal to all races and kinds of men. Christianity, today, has become a religion well adapted to the social, economic, and political mores of the white races. It has long since ceased to be the religion of Jesus, although it still valiantly portrays a beautiful religion about Jesus to such individuals as sincerely seek to follow in the way of its teaching. It has glorified Jesus as the Christ, the Messianic anointed one from God, but has largely forgotten the Master’s personal gospel: the Fatherhood of God and the universal brotherhood of all men.[Paper 98:7.11, page 1084:10]
2
And so, under the vigorous leadership of Peter and ere the Master ascended to the Father, his well-meaning representatives began that subtle process of gradually and certainly changing the religion of Jesus into a new and modified form of religion about Jesus. [Paper 192:4.8, page 2051:5]
3
Christianity exhibits a history of having originated out of the unintended transformation of the religion of Jesus into a religion about Jesus. It further presents the history of having experienced Hellenization, paganization, secularization, institutionalization, intellectual deterioration, spiritual decadence, moral hibernation, threatened extinction, later rejuvenation, fragmentation, and more recent relative rehabilitation. Such a pedigree is indicative of inherent vitality and the possession of vast recuperative resources. And this same Christianity is now present in the civilized world of Occidental peoples and stands face to face with a struggle for existence which is even more ominous than those eventful crises which have characterized its past battles for dominance. [Paper 195:4.4, page 2075:2]
4
These various groupings of Christians may serve to accommodate numerous different types of would-be believers among the various peoples of Western civilization, but such division of Christendom presents a grave weakness when it attempts to carry the gospel of Jesus to Oriental peoples. These races do not yet understand that there is a religion of Jesus separate, and somewhat apart, from Christianity, which has more and more become a religion about Jesus. [Paper 195:10.15, page 2086:1]
5
The time is ripe to witness the figurative resurrection of the human Jesus from his burial tomb amidst the theological traditions and the religious dogmas of nineteen centuries. Jesus of Nazareth must not be longer sacrificed to even the splendid concept of the glorified Christ. What a transcendent service if, through this revelation, the Son of Man should be recovered from the tomb of traditional theology and be presented as the living Jesus to the church that bears his name, and to all other religions! Surely the Christian fellowship of believers will not hesitate to make such adjustments of faith and of practices of living as will enable it to “follow after” the Master in the demonstration of his real life of religious devotion to the doing of his Father’s will and of consecration to the unselfish service of man. Do professed Christians fear the exposure of a self-sufficient and unconsecrated fellowship of social respectability and selfish economic maladjustment? Does institutional Christianity fear the possible jeopardy, or even the overthrow, of traditional ecclesiastical authority if the Jesus of Galilee is reinstated in the minds and souls of mortal men as the ideal of personal religious living? Indeed, the social readjustments, the economic transformations, the moral rejuvenations, and the religious revisions of Christian civilization would be drastic and revolutionary if the living religion of Jesus should suddenly supplant the theologic religion about Jesus. [Paper 196:1.2, page 2090:3]
6
Some day a reformation in the Christian church may strike deep enough to get back to the unadulterated religious teachings of Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. You may preach a religion about Jesus, but, perforce, you must live the religion of Jesus. In the enthusiasm of Pentecost, Peter unintentionally inaugurated a new religion, the religion of the risen and glorified Christ. The Apostle Paul later on transformed this new gospel into Christianity, a religion embodying his own theologic views and portraying his own personal experience with the Jesus of the Damascus road. The gospel of the kingdom is founded on the personal religious experience of the Jesus of Galilee; Christianity is founded almost exclusively on the personal religious experience of the Apostle Paul. Almost the whole of the New Testament is devoted, not to the portrayal of the significant and inspiring religious life of Jesus, but to a discussion of Paul’s religious experience and to a portrayal of his personal religious convictions. The only notable exceptions to this statement, aside from certain parts of Matthew, Mark, and Luke, are the Book of Hebrews and the Epistle of James. Even Peter, in his writing, only once reverted to the personal religious life of his Master. The New Testament is a superb Christian document, but it is only meagerly Jesusonian. [Paper 196:2.1, page 2091:10]
It can clearly be seen from these quotes that Christianity should rediscover the “religion of Jesus” and proclaim it anew, that it can be lived in truth.
Surely the timing of The Urantia Book with the firsthand telling of his Life and Teachings is of mighty significance. An indicator that the time for change has arrived.
Consider the reason we have these words……..“The time is ripe to witness the figurative resurrection of the human Jesus…”
The time has indeed arrived for professed Christians to honestly and with courage of their convictions, to ask themselves these questions:
- Do they fear the exposure of a self-sufficient and unconsecrated fellowship of social respectability and selfish economic maladjustment?
- Do they fear the possible jeopardy, or even the overthrow, of traditional ecclesiastical authority if the Jesus of Galilee is reinstated in the minds and souls of mortal men as the ideal of personal religious living?
To my thinking there is evidence of change but not of the magnitude required. Letting go and letting God takes courage and faith. This change will happen……some day!
Some day a reformation in the Christian church may strike deep enough to get back to the unadulterated religious teachings of Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith.
We are encouraged to be patient and wise and allow evolution to take its course, yet we are informed the “religion of Jesus” is living and dynamic in its transformative power—drastic and revolutionary.
…the religious revisions of Christian civilization would be drastic and revolutionary if the living religion of Jesus should suddenly supplant the theologic religion about Jesus. [Paper 196:1.2, page 2090:3]
Mixed with the positive message of hope there is however, a warning. Just as Jesus did not receive the intended welcome among the people of his birth even though Machiventa Melchizedek had ensured the God concept was alive in the hearts and minds of the men and women of Israel, the “religion of Jesus” can likewise, be thwarted of full registry by fearful Christianity clinging to false “safety” of entrenched power and seemingly changeless tradition.
…And Machiventa was successful in achieving the purpose of his unusual bestowal; when Michael made ready to appear on Urantia, the God concept was existent in the hearts of men and women, the same God concept that still flames anew in the living spiritual experience of the manifold children of the Universal Father as they live their intriguing temporal lives on the whirling planets of space. [Paper 98:7.12, page 1085:1]
This same God concept has been severely diminished as a result of secular materialism. Will it flame anew in Christianity or will the torch of spiritual progress be passed to other enthusiastic carriers?
…And this same Christianity is now present in the civilized world of Occidental peoples and stands face to face with a struggle for existence which is even more ominous than those eventful crises which have characterized its past battles for dominance. [Paper 195:4.4, page 2075:2]
Threatened as it is, with irrelevance, consequent of dereliction of its spiritual purpose, Christianity is struggling for its very existence.
. Lest there be yet another opportunity to have people point out a lack of patience – is it reasonable to suggest that a week is enough time for “moderators” to get back to ME?
Sabinatu, I have tried to get back to you via a personal email but your server keeps blocking the message. Are you having problems with your current email address?
@Moderator2 – can you send it to me here on this site as a “chat” IM…?
@Vern – I think an individual spiritual awakening can be as “sudden”, so to speak, as any other kind of free will choice. The material outworking of a “sudden” change on “such a planet” is what the advice for patience is all about.With God all things are possible
Pretty much a “truth” that the religion OF Jesus will confirm.Glad you enjoyed the link. People interested in ethical living will need “prophetic fire” – the religion OF Jesus – to make it happen.
Sabinatu wrote: Glad you enjoyed the link.Sab, thanks. That Huffington article was also shared on the Fellowship facebook group by David Kantor who considered it very important. Glad you are looking in places other than the usual watering holes for snippets of truth. There is a whole world of people out there and there are definite stirrings worth noting.Going out amongst the people is ever going to be its own reward.Fatherhood of God, Brotherhood of Man.
THAT part of the religion OF Jesus is a whole lot easier to present to the world when it is IN CONTEXT of Parts I – III of TUB.
Act is ours, the consequences are God’s.
The names are not known, even at this early stage, of who has kept on course with the responsibility of publishing and distributing the book and not letting any “paul” rise up to blow things off course, so to those steady captains, I thank you. It is well-nigh a “miracle” that TUB is getting out there in spite of it all…
Sabinatu wrote: …kept on course with the responsibility of publishing and distributing the book…Sab, I agree that the whole book, FOREWORD, parts I, II, III and IV are essential as a comprehensive whole to be readily available to every man, woman and child alive.
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